Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Belibaste said:

Aragorn said:

I haven't yet solved the problem with my odd sleeping pattern. I've tried taking potassium and magnesium before bed, but I still wake up after 3-4 hours of sleep. However, when waking up I don't feel tired or worried because of the lack of sleep (like I used to, on "bad nights). Last night, this same thing happened again - went to bed at 22.30, woke up at 02.30. Then I had a smoke, read some articles and went back to bed at ca 04.00. Then I slept until 07.30. I don't feel like this kind of sleeping pattern is doing any damage, but it IS a mystery to me, why I started having this biphasic sleep some months ago.

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I've had the same sleeping pattern for months now. I usually go to bed between 11 and 12 and wake up around 3 a.m., then I stay awake between 30 and 90 minutes. During this time I smoke, do some crosswords, read.

Initially I thought it was part of recovering a normal sleeping pattern since three years ago, I got sick and my sleeping pattern was all messed up. I couldn't sleep more than one hour in a row. Months after months I could sleep longer until reaching this point where I usually wake up once in the middle of the night.

It might have something to do with sleeping cycles. In average they last 90 minutes, so getting asleep at 12 and waking up at 3 would equate to two full sleep cycles before waking up.

By typing "waking up in the middle of the night" I noticed that many people experience this same "waking up at the same time every night" syndrom. However I didn't find any really convincing explanation yet.

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I have had this problem since my stroke in 2005. Right after the stroke I would wake up in total fear as if something was happening to me against my will, during sleep. Quite often since 2005 I have wondered about this, as to whether it was just paranoia but also in the back of my thoughts are always concerns that this could be part of a manipulation process.

I still wake up with a start, every night. Most nights I go right back to sleep, but some nights my sleep is done for that night. Once it hits mid morning on those days, I realy need a nap. Like I have just been in fight, or have done something very difficult.
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I have read very little of this information since March of this year. I only have a few days of opportunity to try absorbing as much of this information as possible. I was very pleased to see that this group is working in this direction. I only need to make a few adjustments to what is being done. The bone broth being the main one.

I came up with a third reference from the Bible about this.
1-Cain and Able... though they talk about jealousy being the catalyst, I would have to include diet. From the C's.
2-The high prized value of animal fat as an atonement for sin, brought to the temple by the Jews.
3-The oil in your lamp for the return of Jesus...I could never understand how I could keep the oil in my lamp full. Now I have the answer.

Thanks again for all the information.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Exactly. That is where I was going, once I had an answer to the question I asked. I do not understand, however, what the reference to "evil" has to do with the answer.

If someone (my housemate, for example) is influenced by my high fat intake to try eating more fat, I make sure that person knows that this is something that has only been shown to be safe if carbohydrate intake is restricted at the same time. To simply encourage someone to eat high-fat, even if only for one meal, without mentioning that would, to my mind, be withholding important information.

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The women referred to the bacon grease as evil!

Ps: I am not up on this information like some of you here. I have not started this program. I have been eating in a modified paleo diet style for about 3 years now, cutting the carbs out bit by bit because they just made me feel bloated. You can't withhold something you do not know. I have discovered cooking the eggs with the rendered bacon grease and a bit of butter is a very very good thing to eat, for me. That has been an almost daily meal for over 2 years, for me.

The carb eaters were whining, so I added the mushrooms, onion and cheese for their benefit, not knowing that I could have been sending them to their deaths. Geez, glad I didn't serve bread and potatoes like they were asking for. They seemed fine and they quite liked it once they started eating. Sometimes the body just knows what is good and bad for it. That is if it is not too clogged up with garbage, which was a goal from 2007 - 2009 to clear the garbage out, where 90 lbs of garbage was shed from my body.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

WIN 52 said:

Exactly. That is where I was going, once I had an answer to the question I asked. I do not understand, however, what the reference to "evil" has to do with the answer.

If someone (my housemate, for example) is influenced by my high fat intake to try eating more fat, I make sure that person knows that this is something that has only been shown to be safe if carbohydrate intake is restricted at the same time. To simply encourage someone to eat high-fat, even if only for one meal, without mentioning that would, to my mind, be withholding important information.

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The women referred to the bacon grease as evil!

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Sorry, I missed that in your earlier reply. I think the issue here is cause and effect, not good and evil. I still find your response to the others confusing, because pork fat of any kind would have been an "abomination" (not my term), not a preferred offering.

Ps: I am not up on this information like some of you here. I have not started this program...

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An excellent reason not to experiment on yourself or others when you don't know what you are doing.

...The carb eaters were whining, so I added the mushrooms, onion and cheese for their benefit, not knowing that I could have been sending them to their deaths. Geez, glad I didn't serve bread and potatoes like they were asking for. They seemed fine and they quite liked it once they started eating. Sometimes the body just knows what is good and bad for it. That is if it is not too clogged up with garbage, which was a goal from 2007 - 2009 to clear the garbage out, where 90 lbs of garbage was shed from my body.

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You are not sending them to their deaths with one meal. My impression is that your guests, with the knowledge that they possess, were responding as one might reasonably expect. Perhaps you could take their reaction as a sign that there is an adjustment that you need to make.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Megan said:

Ps: I am not up on this information like some of you here. I have not started this program...

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An excellent reason not to experiment on yourself or others when you don't know what you are doing.

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This was not an experiment. It is how I live. There was a 90 year old man who used to eat bacon grease on pumpernickle bread all the time. I saw no harm in cooking the breakfast in bacon grease.

...The carb eaters were whining, so I added the mushrooms, onion and cheese for their benefit, not knowing that I could have been sending them to their deaths. Geez, glad I didn't serve bread and potatoes like they were asking for. They seemed fine and they quite liked it once they started eating. Sometimes the body just knows what is good and bad for it. That is if it is not too clogged up with garbage, which was a goal from 2007 - 2009 to clear the garbage out, where 90 lbs of garbage was shed from my body.

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You are not sending them to their deaths with one meal. My impression is that your guests, with the knowledge that they possess, were responding as one might reasonably expect. Perhaps you could take their reaction as a sign that there is an adjustment that you need to make.

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Sory, you made it sound like I should be charged for a crime, is all. So what adjustment do you suggest. The knowledge they posess is that potatoes, bread, vegetables, margerine and a bit of chicken is what my diet should consist of. The diet choices that had me 90 lbs heavier. I suggested they possibly need to make an adjustment with their food choices.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Chrissy said:

I mentioned reusing bones here
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,22916.msg362631.html#msg362631

I have not tried this womans recipe though. So I can't say what the first broth would look like compared to say the 4th. If you scroll down on my post, you will see the reply TruthSeeker gave me which made a lot of sense. She noted she's done multiple boils adding fresh bones in with the old, not more than three times. That would stretch out your reserves of bones.

As far as freezing bones that were raw, then cooked, I found this from the USDA on freezing.
"Refreezing
Once food is thawed in the refrigerator, it is safe to refreeze it without cooking, although there may be a loss of quality due to the moisture lost through thawing. After cooking raw foods which were previously frozen, it is safe to freeze the cooked foods. If previously cooked foods are thawed in the refrigerator, you may refreeze the unused portion. Freeze leftovers within 3-4 days. Do not refreeze any foods left outside the refrigerator longer than 2 hours; 1 hour in temperatures above 90 °F. "
Here's the link to the complete article on freezing
_http://www.fsis.usda.gov/FactSheets/Focus_On_Freezing/index.asp

I hope that helps, Fabric.

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Yes that was the link I was thinking of. Thanks for the info Chrissy

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I just had an interesting thought. If selenium binds to mercury and keeps the body from absorbing it, then could eating fish with every meal protect someone from their own mercury fillings? Is this another way an all-meat diet might be protective?

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

monotonic said:

I just had an interesting thought. If selenium binds to mercury and keeps the body from absorbing it, then could eating fish with every meal protect someone from their own mercury fillings? Is this another way an all-meat diet might be protective?

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I don't think that would be as effective as simply removing the filings. Plus you have to also consider that a lot of deep sea fish already contain high mercury levels. You can bet their selenium isn't offsetting that.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

The idea is that fish are harmless in terms of mercury poisoning because they have so much more selenium than mercury, and the selenium neutralizes the mercury. I haven't seen any elaboration or explanation of this idea so I'm still skeptical. But if it is true, it seems to mean that eating fish at every meal would help protect one against fillings and other sources of mercury. Of course it is better to remove the fillings in the first place, but not everyone has only fillings to worry about as a source of mercury contamination. And for those that do, this could be helpful if it pans out. Of course if the idea is false, it will be more damaging to eat fish than to not, so it needs to be verified before anyone can apply it. This does not consider other possible toxins such as PCBs.

I realize now you have a point, if selenium protects from mercury poisoning then why are these fish with all their selenium accumulating it themselves?

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

monotonic said:

I just had an interesting thought. If selenium binds to mercury and keeps the body from absorbing it, then could eating fish with every meal protect someone from their own mercury fillings? Is this another way an all-meat diet might be protective?

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There is lots of related "information" about this on the Web. Perhaps you could try fishing through it and telling us what you find that you think has a chance of actually being true?

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I would like to give an update of my diet,

After eating 0 carbs per day fat –lard- protein pork and bone broth , my hair began to fall I have lost so many hair lately also I have been lost too much weight and the effects of the KD -the pain in my arms and legs, tired 0 energy sometimes etc, so to minimize the effects of the Ketogenic diet , I began to eat like 20 grms of carbs but I have notice that when I ate that then I felt hungry, so I decided to take much bone broth with lard on it, as Laura have suggested.

My kids and I got a flu, the symptoms in me have been little compare to my kids, they are not doing KD, almost no headache no body pain just my throat I have difficult to talk but definitely much better than the people around me. I felt fever ,I ´ve been sweating but not pain in my body!!!

This week I have been 0 carbs and much vict C much fat and little protein. As a far as I understand the KD will help me to take out the flu from my system so Im working on that now….

Just wanted to know what is the supplement that im not taking so my hair is lost?

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Zim, did you miss the part about needing to do the resistance training to activate the non-damaged mtDNA???

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Approaching Infinity said:

We start it in the morning, bring it to a boil, then bring it down to a simmer (lowest heat on our gas stove) for around 8 hours. When the bones are in the pot, there are usually a couple sticking out the top of the water, but it's not like the pot is packed full of bones. If they were in a bag, the bag would probably be approximately the size of a small head. I'll try to take a picture next time to give a better idea.

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Thanks Approaching Infinity. I'll have to try the stove to see if I can replicate your results. I've been canning most of my batches and I know that, in emergency situations, having broth like that could really make all the difference.

Laura said:

Zim, did you miss the part about needing to do the resistance training to activate the non-damaged mtDNA???

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My own experience with resistance exercise has been really intense! I signed up for a gym membership since I didn't think doing just pull-ups and push-ups was doing the trick, and after a couple days I felt completely beat, my muscles were extremely sore, and I've been just plain exhausted. It's a much different type of exhaustion than the "burn out" kind, and feels just plain good.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Laura said:

Zim, did you miss the part about needing to do the resistance training to activate the non-damaged mtDNA???

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I do hope that is what it is. I am concerned, because these are the kinds of symptoms that have been used to justify saying that zero-carb diets are "unsafe." No one diet is going to work for every last person on earth (a few can't metabolize fat and a few can't metabolize carbs, for one thing), and we haven't had a flood of symptoms like this, but a few people may run into special problems.

Hair loss makes me think immediately of low thyroid hormone levels (which might or might not actually be a "thyroid gland problem"), and I am wondering if the diet has uncovered a problem, thyroid or otherwise, that may need special attention.

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Megan said:

Hair loss makes me think immediately of low thyroid hormone levels (which might or might not actually be a "thyroid gland problem"), and I am wondering if the diet has uncovered a problem, thyroid or otherwise, that may need special attention.

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The same occurred to me. Zim, any chance you can get a full, comprehensive thyroid test, including reverse T3?

Also, you may need to slow down and have a more gradual approach. We have a few examples on this thread of how you can create havoc when cutting carbs too fast. This is a major fuel change, not to be underestimated, and the body needs time to adapt.
Have you had the chance to read the whole thread?

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Laura said:

Zim, did you miss the part about needing to do the resistance training to activate the non-damaged mtDNA???

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:O !Oh Yes I missed!!! :P OMG, My mother is in the hospital plus my kids and my work I only focused in my diet !!! driving like crazy km of distance back and fort!!!! that I missed completely the weights!!!

I had two mini weights 4 lb each one, can I beging with those?

Hair loss makes me think immediately of low thyroid hormone levels (which might or might not actually be a "thyroid gland problem"), and I am wondering if the diet has uncovered a problem, thyroid or otherwise, that may need special attention.

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Hmmm it makes sense, before I began the KD, I posted about the problems with my hormones and a possible premenopausal stage the curios thing is when I take out the carbs out I do not present any of the symptoms I had before; but when I had 20 grams or so I can see minimal effects and I can´t eat more than that because all the symptoms came again. But Im not doing the resistance training that could explain the not activation of non-damage mtDNA!!

Gertrudes said:

Megan said:

Hair loss makes me think immediately of low thyroid hormone levels (which might or might not actually be a "thyroid gland problem"), and I am wondering if the diet has uncovered a problem, thyroid or otherwise, that may need special attention.

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The same occurred to me. Zim, any chance you can get a full, comprehensive thyroid test, including reverse T3?

Also, you may need to slow down and have a more gradual approach. We have a few examples on this thread of how you can create havoc when cutting carbs too fast. This is a major fuel change, not to be underestimated, and the body needs time to adapt.
Have you had the chance to read the whole thread?

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Yes I´m reading by parts as soon as I have time each day sometimes there are too many pages but slowly I read them, as I saw my weight/ hair lost I decided not to quit all the carbs just once. Im not doing IF yet.

I had been had problems with my hormones maybe it is a side effect of it ??? Like I said before I´ve just change my diet but not make the resistance training so my body didn’t had the chance to recover my Mitocondrial Cells... and I haven’t done thyroid test yet, only estrogens and progesterone but nothing were wrong so definetly I need to focus in my thyroids.... but I can assure that as soon as I eat carbs all my metabolism change for bad!!!