Covert Depression

Ascien said:
The bolded part sums up my childhood experiences with my mother really well. I've never been able to understand why I would act the way I did for so long, taking responsibility for things a child just shouldn't be responsible for, trying to be better as the blame towards me slowly got assimilated. Some years ago I thought it was all based on fear, but it's clearly more complex. I also always told myself that I wasn't ashamed, had nothing to feel guilty for (was consistently asked and told these things) and because I did everything demanded of me and far beyond, then it mattered not whether she knew it... and that was that. Then came my depression in early adulthood but I'm sure that it stemmed from my teens. Like nicklebleu, I was unsure about this numbness of feeling and I think my autoimmune problems compounded my mis-reading of it at the time. Then again, after reading about dysthymia (thanks French Marigold) it could've been that.

I can relate to some parts of your experience, Ascien. Taking responsibility for a caregiver's failings and "successfully" doing what was overtly or covertly demanded can lead to its own set of problems in the future.

In some cases, if the child is praised for being "matured beyond his years", for "never having given trouble", for being "a champion for his parents/mother", it can lead to a false sense of empowerment and the mentality of a rescuer seeking out potential victims to rescue. This can lead to what has been referred to as the white knight syndrome with its associated issues.

In some cases, the result is not so much of a rescuer but a cynical-beyond-the-years personality where there is a an avoidance of deep connection with others, perhaps as a way of avoiding potential betrayal in a relationship.

In real life, these dynamics play out in a continuum of many-hued shades, different situations triggering and shaping different behaviors. The common chord seems to be the lack of authentic connection with fellow human beings and the underlying depression which is kept at bay through various self-medication methods.
 
So if I have depression, how can I heal it if I can't have intimacy by the moment?

I've been isolating myself on my batcave too much lately, going to the gym is the only thing that keeps me sane, seriously I see no way as I can't have intimacy with anybody, is just that I can't, I don't like it as I have been going like this since childhood.
 
obyvatel said:
Ascien said:
The bolded part sums up my childhood experiences with my mother really well. I've never been able to understand why I would act the way I did for so long, taking responsibility for things a child just shouldn't be responsible for, trying to be better as the blame towards me slowly got assimilated. Some years ago I thought it was all based on fear, but it's clearly more complex. I also always told myself that I wasn't ashamed, had nothing to feel guilty for (was consistently asked and told these things) and because I did everything demanded of me and far beyond, then it mattered not whether she knew it... and that was that. Then came my depression in early adulthood but I'm sure that it stemmed from my teens. Like nicklebleu, I was unsure about this numbness of feeling and I think my autoimmune problems compounded my mis-reading of it at the time. Then again, after reading about dysthymia (thanks French Marigold) it could've been that.

I can relate to some parts of your experience, Ascien. Taking responsibility for a caregiver's failings and "successfully" doing what was overtly or covertly demanded can lead to its own set of problems in the future.

In some cases, if the child is praised for being "matured beyond his years", for "never having given trouble", for being "a champion for his parents/mother", it can lead to a false sense of empowerment and the mentality of a rescuer seeking out potential victims to rescue. This can lead to what has been referred to as the white knight syndrome with its associated issues.

In some cases, the result is not so much of a rescuer but a cynical-beyond-the-years personality where there is a an avoidance of deep connection with others, perhaps as a way of avoiding potential betrayal in a relationship.

In real life, these dynamics play out in a continuum of many-hued shades, different situations triggering and shaping different behaviors. The common chord seems to be the lack of authentic connection with fellow human beings and the underlying depression which is kept at bay through various self-medication methods.

Even if you didn't mean to, you've pegged me pretty good. I could never take compliments well even if deserved, I always noticed people exaggerating things constantly and using hyperbole. It was as if I shouldn't receive or accept justified praise for my efforts, yet I thought I felt that I should. So I was always polite about any praise but in my mind the thought of "yeah whatever", would surface. The feeling? Slightly embarrassed.

I only started getting "white knight syndrome" after joining the forum! Even though I'd read so much on what to do and not to, and what to expect in terms of external and internal consideration, I still tried too hard. It's only recently died down and now I just let people be. It may be one of those lessons that you might have foreknowledge of but part of it requires a crucial mistake or two for the knowledge to be assimilated, and expansion of awareness. False empowerment? Yeah, but only when I gained some REAL knowledge though.

"Cynical-beyond-the-years personality where there is an avoidance of deep connection with others, perhaps as a way of avoiding potential betrayal in a relationship", is the issue and has been since my teens for me. I have, for the most part, been a relatively aware kind of guy since youth, and virtually none of my emotional issues (and psychological) have been totally unknown to me. It's just that especially prior to learning of the forum, Laura and my early research days, I would grow increasingly aware of whatever problem and the specifics but my mind would find a way of not going "there" and find some distractions to "entertain" myself. After a dissociative period I'd have to face reality again and then melancholy and the obvious depression that I was in the grip of but... there was no way I was gonna give in to "this thing" (in those days - around '04 but prior to as well - I didn't fully understand depression) so even when there were mental health segments on the news, and they described the symptoms, I somehow found a way of editing most of it out. Totally maddening it was.

With all that's gone on since, I'm no longer depressed, only half as cynical, but the deeper connection isn't really there - well, the feeling isn't - and comes now and then. With all the things going on in the world, I convinced myself to take a break from the constant emotional battering I get from reading the all day everyday horrors reported on SOTT. Up until the last two months (I've been overworked and ill with no time off, this also helped me convince myself) I've read the forum and SOTT everyday for many hours. I had been wondering why there wasn't a burnout, despite the odd fits of crying from articles and discussions, EE (which I need to do more) etc. I suppose I'm having it now. Still don't feel deep connections though (feel almost nothing for my warring relatives) and when I feel something, I get overwhelmed. I'm starting to get overwhelmed just writing this... oh well, at least I'm not a psychopath!
 
Prometeo said:
So if I have depression, how can I heal it if I can't have intimacy by the moment?

I've been isolating myself on my batcave too much lately, going to the gym is the only thing that keeps me sane, seriously I see no way as I can't have intimacy with anybody, is just that I can't, I don't like it as I have been going like this since childhood.

If you are fine with the way you are Prometeo, then you can continue doing the things you have always done and get similar results that you have always got. Thing is when you were younger, you did not have the choice of being something different - your home environment and the wider social environment molded you in a shape - as it does to us all. Now that you are an adult, have more knowledge and freedom, you can choose to be different. The fact that you choose to interact in the forum here and be a member of the community shows that a part of you does wish for a different kind of connection with other people. How much you choose to feed and grow that part is up to you. This may sound "unscientific" but it has been my experience that the universe often responds to sincere efforts of the type referred to in the previous sentence. It is captured in the story of a man hacking through a dense jungle; he reaches a river and is crestfallen to see a still more dense jungle on the other side. Then he becomes aware of someone hacking through the jungle on that other side clearing a path for him to walk.


Thinking "connection" rather than "intimacy" may be useful at this stage. And alongside connection to people, you may also want to consider the type of connection you have at present with your own body, your living space etc. You may eat well and exercise your body at the gym - which is good. To use an analogy, you can treat you body like one treats a motor car; good maintenance for peak performance - using indexes like 0 to 60 mile per hour pickup speed - or how many tons it can haul. Before the advent of motor cars, people in some parts of the world used horses for transportation. Horses needed a different type of care than what cars need. Many owners developed a deeper connection with the horse - they were beasts who served an utilitarian purpose - but many treated them differently than just a tool for peak performance. You can treat your body like a motor car or like a horse - performance based or connection based.

In practical terms, connection with the body to me signifies sensory awareness - a sense of embodiment - feeling the ground underneath the feet - the air being breathed in - sunshine on the skin - being aware of the needs of body. The idea is not to become enamored/fascinated/obsessed with it - but treating it as one would treat a living entity rather than a tool.

Sometimes, getting a few plants to care for - or a small pet if possible - does good for learning to foster connection.
 
Ascien said:
With all that's gone on since, I'm no longer depressed, only half as cynical, but the deeper connection isn't really there - well, the feeling isn't - and comes now and then. With all the things going on in the world, I convinced myself to take a break from the constant emotional battering I get from reading the all day everyday horrors reported on SOTT. Up until the last two months (I've been overworked and ill with no time off, this also helped me convince myself) I've read the forum and SOTT everyday for many hours. I had been wondering why there wasn't a burnout, despite the odd fits of crying from articles and discussions, EE (which I need to do more) etc. I suppose I'm having it now. Still don't feel deep connections though (feel almost nothing for my warring relatives) and when I feel something, I get overwhelmed. I'm starting to get overwhelmed just writing this... oh well, at least I'm not a psychopath!

Ascien, I feel it is ok to be emotionally overwhelmed at times. It is difficult to take frequent glimpses of the nature of reality that we inhabit without feeling a host of unpleasant emotions.

Connection in my experience is more often a value based choice rather than a feeling. When you open SOTT to read the horrors perpetrated all over the world, you are making a choice based on a value - to be connected to reality as opposed to apathy or indifference. Values are more sustainable than emotions which come and go. Values can act like a compass showing us which way is north as we deal with the choppy waves of emotion that wash over us sometimes even taking us under temporarily. Treating connection as a value can thus help us with everyday choices.

Repeatedly affirming the values which are important to us - writing them down on a piece of paper and reading them frequently - doing small things and recording them as a way of being committed to the values are useful exercises imo. Small but consistent value-driven actions help build self-worth which is independent of the vagaries of social validation. A related theme is the effort to do something that would improve a situation just a little bit . We may not solve the big problems but we can choose to connect and improve a situation just a little bit through our actions. Even if it does nothing else, it may at least help in temporarily lifting the burden of depression/fatalistic cynicism that weighs us down.
 
Some interesting Life symbolisms have arrived in my life since this thread started.

The overflow pipe of my hot water tank was dribbling out water.

The ball valve on my hot water tank needed the washer replacing as it was allowing water to dribble in and not fully close off the flow. In addition the the internal stop cock would not close fully - water would dribbling through when supposedly closed off.

Water meaning emotions, hot water, suppressed anger, and dribbling out, possibly through years of controlling emotions - unable to contain emotions, especially anger?

From Louise Hay - 'I am willing to feel.' It is safe for me to express my emotions.' 'I love myself.'
 
obyvatel said:
Ascien said:
The bolded part sums up my childhood experiences with my mother really well. I've never been able to understand why I would act the way I did for so long, taking responsibility for things a child just shouldn't be responsible for, trying to be better as the blame towards me slowly got assimilated. Some years ago I thought it was all based on fear, but it's clearly more complex. I also always told myself that I wasn't ashamed, had nothing to feel guilty for (was consistently asked and told these things) and because I did everything demanded of me and far beyond, then it mattered not whether she knew it... and that was that. Then came my depression in early adulthood but I'm sure that it stemmed from my teens. Like nicklebleu, I was unsure about this numbness of feeling and I think my autoimmune problems compounded my mis-reading of it at the time. Then again, after reading about dysthymia (thanks French Marigold) it could've been that.

I can relate to some parts of your experience, Ascien. Taking responsibility for a caregiver's failings and "successfully" doing what was overtly or covertly demanded can lead to its own set of problems in the future.

In some cases, if the child is praised for being "matured beyond his years", for "never having given trouble", for being "a champion for his parents/mother", it can lead to a false sense of empowerment and the mentality of a rescuer seeking out potential victims to rescue. This can lead to what has been referred to as the white knight syndrome with its associated issues.

In some cases, the result is not so much of a rescuer but a cynical-beyond-the-years personality where there is a an avoidance of deep connection with others, perhaps as a way of avoiding potential betrayal in a relationship.

In real life, these dynamics play out in a continuum of many-hued shades, different situations triggering and shaping different behaviors. The common chord seems to be the lack of authentic connection with fellow human beings and the underlying depression which is kept at bay through various self-medication methods.

You've described something I'm dealing with as well. Avoiding deeper connection due to the fact that
the authentic self was shamed/denied or whatever you want to call it, so you learn these methods to manipulate
people to like you, and then you have to keep maintaining that self image and be on the constant look out to anything
that could destroy the idealized image the other has of you. Doing nothing that could potentially stir the boat like getting angry,
having boundaries. Which is what Mate talks about, it all comes down to attachment issues.
 
obyvatel said:
Prometeo said:
So if I have depression, how can I heal it if I can't have intimacy by the moment?

I've been isolating myself on my batcave too much lately, going to the gym is the only thing that keeps me sane, seriously I see no way as I can't have intimacy with anybody, is just that I can't, I don't like it as I have been going like this since childhood.

If you are fine with the way you are Prometeo, then you can continue doing the things you have always done and get similar results that you have always got. Thing is when you were younger, you did not have the choice of being something different - your home environment and the wider social environment molded you in a shape - as it does to us all. Now that you are an adult, have more knowledge and freedom, you can choose to be different. The fact that you choose to interact in the forum here and be a member of the community shows that a part of you does wish for a different kind of connection with other people. How much you choose to feed and grow that part is up to you. This may sound "unscientific" but it has been my experience that the universe often responds to sincere efforts of the type referred to in the previous sentence. It is captured in the story of a man hacking through a dense jungle; he reaches a river and is crestfallen to see a still more dense jungle on the other side. Then he becomes aware of someone hacking through the jungle on that other side clearing a path for him to walk.


Thinking "connection" rather than "intimacy" may be useful at this stage. And alongside connection to people, you may also want to consider the type of connection you have at present with your own body, your living space etc. You may eat well and exercise your body at the gym - which is good. To use an analogy, you can treat you body like one treats a motor car; good maintenance for peak performance - using indexes like 0 to 60 mile per hour pickup speed - or how many tons it can haul. Before the advent of motor cars, people in some parts of the world used horses for transportation. Horses needed a different type of care than what cars need. Many owners developed a deeper connection with the horse - they were beasts who served an utilitarian purpose - but many treated them differently than just a tool for peak performance. You can treat your body like a motor car or like a horse - performance based or connection based.

In practical terms, connection with the body to me signifies sensory awareness - a sense of embodiment - feeling the ground underneath the feet - the air being breathed in - sunshine on the skin - being aware of the needs of body. The idea is not to become enamored/fascinated/obsessed with it - but treating it as one would treat a living entity rather than a tool.

Sometimes, getting a few plants to care for - or a small pet if possible - does good for learning to foster connection.

Amazing, thanks a lot for the help.

When I said since childhood I meant not like schyzo type or something, I love having friends, I really do. But I find intimacy, as a very close one to one relationship, like romantic or best friends. But since I came to learn more and more, the more I can't !!! Indeed there may be somebody hacking, or maybe is just on nature of things like cs' say. For example reading Political Ponerology helped me to spot so nice the intricacies of conflicts, maybe not a psychopath but the rise of evil in the circles around me. So seeing the need from society for more pathology, and this vampire need for ultra violence, scares me a little bit.

For example, understanding the theory of comets and electrical didn't make sense to me. So I went, and read the SOTT articles, the cs' sessions and hit list so I now understand the concept. But this brought me to have a different perspective to the world, is like something inside me has grown but not necessarily the typical "mature" growth, more like perspective, even my compassion and it's not related to comets hehe. And this sort of holds me, like, I can't connect fully. Though I've noticed that excessive social contact distracts me from studying.

:) I'll give it a try to the google hangouts with the latin group. Is not my thing but, let's see.
 
Well as with alot of others, this certainly rings very true to me. Thank you Obyvatel, and others who have contributed for the information.

obyvatel said:
Covert depression hides under different masks - addictive behavior like alcoholism, pornography or substance abuse, obsessive behavior, perfectionism, workaholism etc. Depression may not always be about feeling bad either - in men emotional numbness or alexithymia can be an experience of depression. Coping mechanisms of covert depression is designed to keep overt depression at bay.

From an early age this addictive behavior has been rather prominent through my life, drinking, pornography, drug addiction and mild perfectionism. Since abstaining from these for a good period of time now, its very shocking for me to see that they was a complete suppressant and mask to a state of depression.
Smoking weed for several years day to day left me extremely numb in body and mind, the state of mind it placed me in was the very reason i stopped. But i did not know it went this far into the reasons why i latched onto drug use.
And it is only now, since abstaining from my previous addictions that i have come to the light of something being wrong with me, never in my wildest dreams would i see it as a form of depression :scared:

obyvatel said:
For the covertly depressed person to enter the path of healing, the addictive self-medicating defenses, whatever form they may take, have to be stopped. One cannot make the excuse that "It is society and my parents who made me like this" if one wishes to heal. When the ability to stop the self-medicating behavior becomes developed and the actual inhibition of the behavior becomes more frequent (the rule rather than the exception), meaningful engagement with the subsequent stages of healing - emotional re-education, acknowledgement of wounds and vulnerability, (re)connection with supporting network etc start to yield more fruitful results. Engaging in deep emotional exploration before making some progress in stopping and changing the maladaptive coping behavior may not be the optimal path towards healing. Brings us back to "fake it until you make it" or "do good - be good". Forming new habits take time and effort. So effort spent in clearly spelling out new desired values to be emulated and acting them out regularly through observable behavior would be the way forward. If the new values are relation-oriented rather than performance oriented, the ground is prepared for emotional reeducation and reconnection needed for healing from covert depression.

After going through the initial responses as youve stated; 'Its the way i am, its from my parents etcc', clearly it is showing that one is not accepting the responsibility for ones own character at this point. This frame of mind is not looking at a way to progressively deal with oneself, but putting it onto others to dismiss themselves from acting.
I think it is good to understand how and where it came from, so it can be understood as a whole, as it did somewhat help me understand what im going through, i.e realizing im becoming like my Father. But the importance should be placed on the now and the real acknowledgement of the problem at hand. Basically taking responsibility for yourself allows you to own your thoughts/emotions and actions.

obyvatel said:
Per my current understanding, we need to distinguish between feelings and states. Sadness is a feeling, depression is a state. State is the backdrop of the stage on which the drama of life is being played out - or the general background filter through which experience is being processed.

Covert depression does not "feel" like depression because there are coping mechanisms - mostly addictive in nature - in place. Overt depression is a state where feelings of frustration and sadness as well as physiological symptoms come into clear view. Healing covert depression usually involves moving through a stage of overt depression.

Overt depression tends to engulf us when we understand the "terror of the situation". Such a depression can be a "stepping stone to soul growth" (4th Way Work term) and lead to a "multilevel disintegration of personality" (Dabrowski's term). In such cases, the depression does not become chronic or habitual, but is a transitory state which leads to a higher, more objective view of the world and one's own self. Reading Dabrowski's descriptions (in the thread linked in my previous post) could be of help in this regard.

In terms of development which always involves increasing emotional range as well as the capacity to bear the extended range, emotional numbness is a symptom of obstacles in the path. Numbness exists for good reasons but these reasons have to be circumvented and understood if possible to foster development. Similar considerations apply for other types of habitual coping mechanisms discussed in the context of covert depression.

Okay so if one is in a 'state' of melancholy or depression, but is unable to feel or acknowledge the 'feelings', it would seem extremely difficult to feel the true emotions when they are masked so much. Once the addictive behaviors are eradicated, or begin decreasing, would this then be a possible stage for the overt depression as a new 'state', and thus further develop into the previously covered up 'feelings'?
The way im seeing it is that the covert depression has to be wiped clean, leaving you with an overt depression which will be of higher intensity as its not masked, and this is where the feelings can be then shown some light?
With it being a ''stepping stone to soul growth'', alls that pops into my mind is 'He who learns must suffer'.
 
Wow! Thank you obyvatel & all others who have contributed to this thread. I am in your debt.

The information and replies have turned my inner world inside-out and upside-down. I had absolutely no idea that boys were so horribly treated and carried such woundings. Reading these stories nearly breaks my heart.

For many years, I have felt so critical of and angry towards men in general — blaming them for all the problems in the world. Yes, I know. Totally illogical, irrational, inaccurate, and untrue. But, even knowing that, I still felt that way.

What this thread has done is dissolve all that. Such a huge rage and grief and compassion for the plight of the wounded and abused and mistreated boys has risen within me, it’s almost unbearable.

I felt a strong desire to have arms big enough to take all these little boys and grown men — envelope them in a loving embrace in some attempt to console the inconsolable. I wanted so much to poof all that pain to beyond and restore them to their natural healthy states of beingness. Never mind the White Knight Syndrome. I don’t want to rescue them or save them or make them dependent on me or look to me as some savior.

What I felt was a sort of mother instinct to comfort the child who’s just fallen down and hurt his knee. And this feeling is so alien to me. I’ve never yearned to be a mother or have children or even get married. So, it feels almost shocking for me to experience this response for an entire group of people for whom I have heretofore felt no compassion.

I am so so so sorry that you guyz had to experience this trauma. Finding out that you did, has made me feel a sincere, heartfelt, deep compassion for you all. And a profound admiration that you are all making such efforts to heal your wounds and reveal yourselves as the wonderful beings you are.

Thank you again for this thread. I confess it has opened my heart — which I had shut down some years ago — on purpose — in order to avoid feeling compassion and caring. It’s miraculous.
 
Hi 13TT,

Thanks for your thoughts, feelings and insights. I think reconciling the schism between men and women is a big step forward to break this nonsensical gender war that is going on in our society. We have to recognise that both men and women grow up under different premises - and both are not pretty. To overcome the pathology raging in our society, men and women need to unite, rather than fight each other. And I think this thread is a good example how to start.

My father died when I was 15 and I was "forced"'to take over the role of the man in our family. This created a lot of anger and despair. I couldn't even take care of myself, so how was I going to be able to take care of my mother and my two sisters? All hell broke loose and I spiralled into anger, self-loathing and more or less hidden depression, and it took me a long time to at least partially get over it. While my position in the family gave me some "privileges", I only realised a lot later, at what price. And this has shaped most of my adult life (feeling bad as a man, White Knigth Syndrome etc.).

So in essence to move forward both men and women need to realize what situation we both are in respectively and learn to overcome these differences, to be able to unite and move forward together.

United we stand, divided we fall ...

just my thoughts on this.
 
nicklebleu - Reply #40 on: Today at 12:14:32 AM said:
Thanks for your thoughts, feelings and insights. I think reconciling the schism between men and women is a big step forward to break this nonsensical gender war that is going on in our society. We have to recognise that both men and women grow up under different premises - and both are not pretty. To overcome the pathology raging in our society, men and women need to unite, rather than fight each other. And I think this thread is a good example how to start.


Hi nicklebleu — you’re welcome and I agree with every statement you’ve made.

In line with what you’ve said, I just read the Pleiadian quote below which, although it is referring to the New Age movement and political maneuvering pertaining to economics, I think it also applies to gender politics as well.

From the thead called: The Usefullness of the Negative Half of the Emotional Center on The Work board —
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,7197.msg50812.html#msg50812

Referring to Barbara Marciniak’s “The Bringers of the Dawn” — the Pleiadians say —

....
Much of the political maneuvering going on, particularly in the United States, is purposely designed to separate you. Look at the New Age. Do you see how the New Age is separated? All kinds of things are said to keep you from discovering what you have in common. When people discover this, they will begin to get angry. As more and more of the methods of control and separation are revealed to you, the anger will build in the United States. Events will occur that may look as if the country is falling apart, yet they will serve the purpose of bringing people together. A new pride and a new sense of integrity will come about, because this is what is designed for the times.
….


What I’ve been feeling since I wrote Reply #39, is a deep remorse that we’ve done this to each other — and continue to do it from one generation to the next. The word “abuse” doesn’t begin to cover this cruelty. It’s like a rape of the spirit — like soul smashing. I just want it to STOP! Yesterday!

I admit that I’ve been at war with the boys. To some extent, identifying myself as feminist-oriented prevented me from seeing the plight of men. I now feel it was a dis-service to humanity.

Nearly 24 hours have passed since I wrote that reply, and I am still processing and feeling this enormous compassion. All the anger has just poofed. I now feel as if we (men & women) are on the same side. We’re in this together. What a revelation.

Reading this thread has made me aware that we women need to know this information in order to put down our swords and unite. This info has been an amazing revelation to me. I can’t get over it.

Thank you obyvatel for bringing this matter (covert depression) to our attention. And thank you Forum Members for all your responses. Priceless.
 
I just now read the following article on SOTT. I hope it's helpful and adds more to the conversation regarding Covert Depression.

On a personal level, if I hadn't read through this thread and had the revelations and realizations I had, I would have been more likely to discount the info in this SOTT article. IOW, I would have been viewing the article through my own prejudiced lenses and been unable to read it with a clearer reading instrument.

The article is quite long so I hope it's got a really high signal-to-noise ratio. :)

http://www.sott.net/article/295419-Why-do-we-murder-the-beautiful-friendships-of-boys

WHY DO WE MURDER THE BEAUTIFUL FRIENDSHIPS OF BOYS?
Marc Greene
Good Men Project
Thu, 26 Feb 2015 22:57 UTC

An epidemic of loneliness is killing millions of American men. Here's why.

On a cold February night a few weeks ago, Professor and researcher Niobe Way presented findings from her book Deep Secrets here in New York. (Her book is available on Amazon.) She was hosted by Partnership With Children, a groundbreaking organization doing powerful interventions with at risk children in the New York's Public Schools. Both Way and Partnership With Children's work have produced reams of hard statistical data proving that emotional support directly impacts every metric of academic performance. And, as it turns out, every other part of our lives as well.

That night, as my wife Saliha and I made our way down the snow-blown streets towards Fifth Avenue, I was feeling the somber weight of the third month of dark Northeast winter, wondering how many days remained until Spring would come. "It's February. Don't kid yourself," the answer came back. My charming and lovely wife was to take me to dinner after Way's presentation. It was my birthday.

Niobe Way is Professor of Applied Psychology at New York University and director of the Ph.D. program in Developmental Psychology. A number of years ago, she started asking teenage boys what their closest friendships meant to them and documenting what they had to say.

This particular question turns out to be an issue of life or death for American men.

When it comes to what is happening emotionally with boys and men, we confuse what we expect of them with what they actually feel...And given enough time, they do so as well.

Before Way, no one would have thought to ask boys what is happening in their closest friendships because we assumed we already knew. In fact, when it comes to what is happening emotionally with boys or men, we confuse what we expect of them with what they actually feel. And given enough time, they do so as well.

This surprisingly simple line of inquiry, once engaged, can open a Pandora's box of self-reflection for men. After a lifetime of being told how men "typically" experience feeling and emotion, the answer to the question "what do my closest friends mean to me" is lost to us.

And here is the proof. In a survey published by the AARP in 2010, we learn that one in three adults aged 45 or older reported being chronically lonely. Just a decade before, only one out of five of us said that. And men are facing the brunt of this epidemic of loneliness. Research shows that between 1999 and 2010 suicide among men, age 50 and over, rose by nearly 50%. The New York Times reports that "the suicide rate for middle-aged men was 27.3 deaths per 100,000, while for women it was 8.1 deaths per 100,000."

In an article for the New Republic titled The Lethality of Loneliness, Judith Schulevitz writes:
Emotional isolation is ranked as high a risk factor for mortality as smoking. A partial list of the physical diseases thought to be caused by or exacerbated by loneliness would include Alzheimer's, obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, neurodegenerative diseases, and even cancer—tumors can metastasize faster in lonely people.
Meanwhile, as I sat down to write about Niobe Way's research today, a tweet by Alain De Botton popped up in my stream:
"An epidemic of loneliness generated by the misguided idea that romantic love is the only solution to loneliness."
And there you have it. What Niobe Way illuminates in her book is nothing less than the central source of our culture's epidemic of male loneliness. Driven by our collective assumption that the friendships of boys are both casual and interchangeable, along with our relentless privileging of romantic love over platonic love, we are driving boys into lives Professor Way describes as "autonomous, emotionally stoic, and isolated." What's more, the traumatic loss of connection for boys Way describes is directly linked to our struggles as men in every aspect of our lives.

Professor Way's research shows us that as boys in early adolescence, we express deeply fulfilling emotional connection and love for each other, but by the time we reach adulthood, that sense of connection evaporates. This is a catastrophic loss; a loss we somehow assume men will simply adjust to. They do not. Millions of men are experiencing a sense of deep loss that haunts them even though they are engaged in fully realized romantic relationships, marriages and families.

For men, the voices in Way's book open a deeply private door to our pasts. In the words of the boys themselves, we experience the heartfelt expression of male emotional intimacy that echoes the sunlit afternoons of our youth. This passionate and loving boy to boy connection occurs across class, race and cultures. It is exclusive to neither white nor black, rich nor poor. It is universal; beautifully evident in the hundreds of interviews that Way conducted. These boys declare freely the love they feel for their closest friends. They use the word love and they are proud to do so.

Consider this quote from a fifteen year old boy named Justin:
[My best friend and I] love each other...that's it ...you have this thing that is deep, so deep, it's within you, you can't explain it. It's just a thing that you know that that person is that person... and that is all that should be important in our friendship...I guess in life, sometimes two people can really, really understand each other and really have a trust, respect, and love for each other. It just happens, it's human nature.
Way writes:
Set against a culture that perceives boys and men to be "activity oriented," "emotionally illiterate," and interested only in independence, these stories seem shocking. The lone cowboy, the cultural icon of masculinity in the West, suggests that what boys want and need most are opportunities for competition and autonomy. Yet over 85% of the hundreds of boys we have interviewed throughout adolescence for the past 20 years suggest that their closest friendships — especially those during early and middle adolescence— share the plot of Love Story more than the plot of Lord of the Flies. Boys from different walks of life greatly valued their male friendships and saw them as critical components to their emotional wellbeing, not because their friends were worthy opponents in the competition for manhood, but because they were able to share their thoughts and feelings — their deepest secrets — with these friends.
Yet something happens to boys as they enter late adolescence....As boys enter manhood, they do, in fact, begin to talk less. They start using the phrase "no homo" following any intimate statement about their friends and they begin to say that they don't have time for their male friendships even though they continue to express strong desires for having such friendships.

In response to a simple question regarding how their friendships have changed since they were a freshman in high school, two boys respond and reveal everything about friendships for boys during adolescence. Justin describes in his senior year how his friendships have changed since he was a freshman:

"I don't know, maybe, not a lot, but I guess that best friends become close friends. So that's basically the only thing that changed. It's like best friends become close friends, close friends become general friends and then general friends become acquaintances. So they just... If there's distance whether it's, I don't know, natural or whatever. You can say that, but it just happens that way."

Michael says:

"Like my friendship with my best friend is fading, but I'm saying it's still there but... So I mean, it's still there 'cause we still do stuff together, but only once in a while. It's sad 'cause he lives only one block away from me and I get to do stuff with him less than I get to do stuff with people who are way further. ...It's like a DJ used his cross fader and started fading it slowly and slowly and now I'm like halfway through the cross fade."
And then Way takes us through the logical results of this disconnection for boys:
Boys know by late adolescence that their close male friendships, and even their emotional acuity, put them at risk of being labeled "girly," "immature," or "gay." Thus, rather than focusing on who they are, they become obsessed with who they are not — they are not girls, little boys nor, in the case of heterosexual boys, are they gay. In response to a cultural context that links intimacy in male friendships with an age, a sex (female), and a sexuality (gay), these boys "mature" into men who are autonomous, emotionally stoic, and isolated.

The ages of 16 to 19, however, are not only a period of disconnection for the boys in my studies, it is also a period in which the suicide rate for boys in the United States rises dramatically and becomes five times the rate of girls when in early adolescence it is only three times the rate of girls. And it is the developmental period in which many of the school shootings we have read about in the paper have occurred and violence, more generally, among boys occurs. Just as boys during early and middle adolescence predicted, not having friends to share their deepest secrets appears to make them go "wacko."
In America, men perform masculinity within a narrow set of cultural rules often called the Man Box. Charlie Glickman explains it beautifully here. One of the central tenants of the man box is the subjugation of women and by extension, all things feminine. Since we Americans hold emotional connection as a female trait, we reject it in our boys, demanding that they "man up" and adopt a strict regimen of emotional independence, even isolation as proof they are real men. Behind the drumbeat message that real men are stoic and detached, is the brutal fist of homophobia, ready to crush any boy who might show too much of the wrong kind of emotions.

"Maybe they'll think I'm a faggot," is the paramount fear that is never far from any boy's mind, be they gay or straight. And so, by late adolescence, boys declare over and over "no homo" following any intimate statement about their friends.

If you want to see the smoking gun, the toxic poison that is leading to the life killing epidemic of loneliness for men, (and by extension, women,) look no further. It's right there: "no homo."

Which is why we must fight relentlessly for gay rights and marriage equality. It is a battle for the hearts and souls of our young sons. The sooner being gay is normalized, the sooner we will all be free of the shrill and violent homophobic policing of boys and men. America's pervasive homophobic anti-feminine policing has forced generations of young men to abandon each other's support at the crucial moment they enter manhood.

It is a heart rending realization that even as men hunger for real connection in our male relationships, we have been trained away from embracing it. We have been trained to choose surface level relationships, even isolation; sleep-walking through our lives out of fear that we will not be viewed as real men. We keep the loving natures that once came so naturally to us hidden and locked away. This training runs so deep we're no longer even conscious of it. And we pass this training on, men and women alike, to generation after generation of bright eyed, loving little boys.

By the time Professor Way was completing her presentation, I realized I was feeling sick. A queasy nausea roiled up. Something was uncoiling in me; something cold and bleak that had taken root in me long ago and gone to sleep there. As Way read these boys' words, it woke up. It was baleful moment of mutual recognition. A sense of utter despair came rushing up, vast, deeper than deep. A February moment to end all of them. Spring was never coming back.

And no matter how determined I had been all those years ago to put my grief away, it was here now, a wall of pain so pure and unflinchingly raw, I was shocked to discover that something so huge could fit in the frail confines of a human being. And even now, as I write these words, gingerly reaching out to give witness to that part of me, I am confronted with an dizzying abyss of sadness that stops my breath, leaving me flinching, waiting for the same killing blow to fall again. Over and over and over again.

I never made it to my birthday dinner. Instead, I wept for George, my wife holding me, as we barreled home through the winter darkness on the New York City subway.

When I was seven, my best friend's name was George. He lived around the corner from me. George was tall and lanky. His elbows always akimbo, his cowlick stellar in its sheer verticality. He had an aquarium. He had a glow-in-the-dark board game. He had the 45 RPM of Hang on Sloopy and he was a Harry Nilsson fan, just like me. I can still recall his house, the luminous joy it held for me, along with each sidewalk crack, garden and tree root that marked, step by childhood step, the block of houses separating us. I still see it in my mind's eye that way. The way in which a child sees down close to the ground, the twigs and ants and trimmed grass sprawling into distinct green blades. All part of the frozen seven-year-old's mosaic that exploded into pieces when my parents' marriage failed, launching them into the bitter self-immolation that typifies American divorce.

Boxes were packed. Doors closed and locked. We were swept away in a wave of surging dislocation, to another house, other hands, other curbs and sidewalks in another part of town. It was never to be the same. And try as I may, I can not shake the magic of that one lost suburban street.

Although we lived just an hour apart, our parents were not willing to insure that George and I stayed in regular contact. For my mother's part, perhaps it was just too much. Alongside a wrenching divorce, a new husband and the challenges of putting the past behind her, perhaps, George was just that. To much a thing of the past.

But George and I were granted a yearly reprieve. Once or sometimes twice a year, George and I were allowed a sleepover. George always came to spend the night on my birthday. It was the one gift I asked for. His visit.

We would spend all night sorting and reading mountains of comics books. Drawing super heroes and discussing, page by page, the comic art of Neal Adams, Jack Kirby, Jim Aparo, Bernie Wrightson, Frank Frazetta and all the others. We loved that artwork. Each line and pen stroke. Each page. I recall we were also able to meet at a few comic conventions. Watching Harryhausen films and searching thousands of musty boxes for back issues.

Then one day it ended. My mother simply said, "no more." I still feel it in my gut. Like a knife so sharp that all I felt was the intense cold of it. Did I ask why? One time? A hundred times? I don't recall. My mother was never one for questions about her decisions.

To this day, I don't know what triggered that choice for her, but my guess is she was feeling vaguely uncomfortable. That two boys, by then around eleven years old, should be moving on to things more productive than comic books and sleep overs. That this "friendship" should have died of its own lack of oxygen, but, pending that, she could no longer sponsor something so...intense. From her perspective, it was unnaturally so.

How many times have we heard parents say, "Oh, they'll make new friends." As if the relationships of children are so shallow and contextual that they can be swapped out like next year's lunchbox. Whatever kid they are seated by, in whatever random school room is assigned, will do as well as the next.

George and I dutifully gave up our friendship, like boys are expected to do, when some random life change demands it of us. We accepted the arcane logic of my mother's decision and turned away to other relationships more convenient to her purposes.

I'm sorry to hold her responsible in this way. I would like to leave, somehow, petals of kind recollections trailing along the internet, holding her memory aloft, but I don't have it in me. Her choices were too dysfunctional, too emotionally exhausted, too tired, dismissive, numbing, too predictable.

When I was in my early thirties, I ran into George again. He was working for a local newspaper and living in an apartment in Houston. I went and visited him. To my surprise, he happily split up his comic collection, (I had sold mine when I was 16 or so) and gave me half of his huge collection. It was an act of profound generosity and I'm sure I was effusive in my thanks.

Then I ran into George again in my forties. He had married, moved to California and was living South of L.A. near Seal Beach. On a business trip, I spent the night at his house. We fell into our old pattern of reading comic books and drawing while his wife hovered, declaring over and over how great it was that I was visiting. The next day I packed up and went home to New York feeling vaguely disconnected, but happy.

A year and a half later, I boxed up a bunch of new graphic novels and mailed them to George with a note telling him that these were my new favorites.

About six months later his wife called me. She was screaming and weeping, this woman I had only met for a few short hours. George had died.

To this day, I remain shocked. That I didn't connect more is my first thought. My second is how effusive his wife had been about my visit. So supportive. So happy for "George's friend" to be there. I was never able to follow up after his death. I don't even know what killed him, just an illness. Strangely, when I collected my thoughts, I realized I could no longer find a phone number for George's wife. She had called me on a land line? I don't remember. Maybe I did call her one more time. A fog of disconnection rises in me about this. Just move on. Just move on.

I recall a single phone call with his mother after his death. (Had she called me?) If I go into my decades old contact list today, I have no entry for George. No address in L. A. No disconnected email address. Nothing.

How is this possible? How did I sleep walk through the chance to reconnect with this friendship? I should have cared. I should have given a damn. Why didn't I? Because somewhere, somehow, I was convinced that close friendships with boys are too painful?

Don't parents understand? Don't they know that we love each other? That our children's hearts can be broken so profoundly that we will never rise to a love like that again?

What boys do, the world had convinced me, was to move on to the next thing. So I did so. We shrug our collective shoulders and suppress the panic of heartbreak and loss. We go numb. We suppress everything. We accept the world as a surface level exercise. Because the love boys feel, that passion we feel for the ones we love is too powerful. It makes grownups nervous.

And we can't have grownups feeling nervous now can we?

Let's take a moment to connect the dots. Boys feel fierce love for their best friends ——> Add homophobia, the Man Box, etc. ———-> Boys disassociate from loving best friends ——— - > Boys and men become emotionally isolated ————> Men enter the epidemic of loneliness ————> Men die.

We now have a clear and direct through-line tying rampant homophobia and the Man Box to resulting grief, isolation, and early mortality in heterosexual men.

Sound a little dramatic? Here is the central piece of research data that every man should take to heart.
In a six-year study of 736 middle-aged men, attachment to a single person (almost always a spouse) did NOT lower the risk of heart attack and fatal coronary heart disease, whereas having a strong social support network did. [Source: Kristina Orth-Gomér, Annika Rosengren & Lars Wilhelmsen, "Lack of Social Support and Incidence of Coronary Heart Disease in Middle-Aged Swedish Men," Psychosomatic Medicine, 55(1993): 37-43.]
I recall to this day, walking into George's room when I was ten and him holding out a copy of Jack Kirby's New Gods. The issue was titled The Death Wish of Terrible Turpin. His joy in sharing that with me, the book thrust out in his hands, is as real to me now as any human moment I can recall. The birth of my son. My dear wife's tears. Anything.

When I turn my thoughts to those times with George, I feel a glimmer of primal emotional power glowing in me. Something fierce and unquenched is there. Something I badly need to reconnect to.

Niobe Way has given us a clear and actionable truth about boys and about ourselves as men. We can shrug it off at our peril. But ignoring her truth and the truth of these boys comes with a terrible price. The loss of my friendship with George set a pattern in my life that I am only now, decades later, finally conscious of. I have walked past so many friendships. Sleep walking past men, as I went instead from woman to women, looking for everything I had lost. Looking instead in the realm of the romantic, the sexual. A false lead to a false solution. And in doing so, I have missed so many opportunities to live a fuller life.

Our female or male lovers are not put here to replace the warm platonic love of the hilarious, generous, sympathetic men in our lives. They are put here to celebrate them with us, even as we celebrate our lover's passionate platonic friends with them. It is a symphony of love, wherein our joy in platonic love is co-amplified by our sexual loves.

Since my birthday I have placed some phone calls. I called my friend Michael and I told him I love him. That I value him as one of my closest friends and that I welcome him to call on me for fun or for sorrow. I have told my story several times to other friends, like I'm telling it here, and in doing so, I'm becoming fierce and awake now.

Niobe Way's work has given me the piece of the puzzle I was never conscious of. That the love I had felt for George and others, Troy, Jack, David, Bruce, and Kyle was right and good and powerful. Could move mountains. That the slow withdrawing of those friendships from my life had not been a killing blow. Not quite. And that I'm back in the game of loving my friends. Fiercely.

So, know it guys. I love you all.

* * * * *

ME TOO!! :)
 
When I first came to the US and gradually got acquainted with the culture here, one of the things that startled me was this "homophobia". I grew up in Asia and had not heard the word "homo" until I was in college. The culture I grew up in did not frown upon emotionally intimate friendship among boys/men. So I feel lucky to have not been conditioned by this strange homophobic tendencies that seem to pervade western culture. In fact, there were a few old friends whom I had the chance to meet with after coming to US. I distinctly remember an incident where some of us were doing the relatively common hands over the shoulders of another friend while being out in a group when someone said something to the effect of "don't do it here, people would think you are gay". And of course, my son "knows" about gay/homo from his elementary school friends (he surprised me recently with a comment) and is already becoming conscious of what he should or should not do or say so that people do not get the wrong idea. It is quite a strong cultural force as far as I can see and it starts affecting children very early. Irrespective of what a child learns from home, as Terrence Real wrote in his book cited in this thread, it is peer pressure that largely shapes these attitudes. I just feel sad.
 
obyvatel said:
When I first came to the US and gradually got acquainted with the culture here, one of the things that startled me was this "homophobia". I grew up in Asia and had not heard the word "homo" until I was in college. The culture I grew up in did not frown upon emotionally intimate friendship among boys/men. So I feel lucky to have not been conditioned by this strange homophobic tendencies that seem to pervade western culture. In fact, there were a few old friends whom I had the chance to meet with after coming to US. I distinctly remember an incident where some of us were doing the relatively common hands over the shoulders of another friend while being out in a group when someone said something to the effect of "don't do it here, people would think you are gay". And of course, my son "knows" about gay/homo from his elementary school friends (he surprised me recently with a comment) and is already becoming conscious of what he should or should not do or say so that people do not get the wrong idea. It is quite a strong cultural force as far as I can see and it starts affecting children very early. Irrespective of what a child learns from home, as Terrence Real wrote in his book cited in this thread, it is peer pressure that largely shapes these attitudes. I just feel sad.

I really understand what you mean, obyvatel. And to go off on a bit of a tangent, I feel similar feelings of sadness when I think about how a lot of women here in the US are so spiteful, jealous, non-trusting, etc. of other women. If more women could come together, forget their biases and such, I think that we would have a much better country.

But, that's what psychopaths do - keep us all divided from each other. Even keep us fighting ourselves. :(
 
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