finding partners...

[Redrock12]

Humans are hard-wired to socialize with other humans and we have an innate drive to connect with others to get our belonging needs met. As traditional tribal/village life has been replaced in the last 100 or more years and more and more families are dysfunctional due to the Ponerization of modern society, most humans find it even more difficult to get their need for connection with others met. Add spending obsessive amounts of time working/playing in isolation with computers, on phones, and inter"facing" with technology instead of other people, while in the developmental ages of 2-25 or so, and you have a perfect recipe for a generation or two who lack even the most basic confidence and social skills to find and maintain a relationship with a significant other.

Luke is frustrated now, understandably, but sexual relationships in everyday life are dangerous and not what they're cracked up to be. Sometimes experience is the best teacher, but a genius learns from the mistakes of others!

Too true. But, sometimes even age and experience aren't enough to help a person avoid a problematic or dangerous relationship when that person has not done a sufficient amount of Work on the self. After two previous marriages, years of therapy and other work on the self (focusing on co-dependency), I still entered into a third relationship at 42, and cohabitated for ten years with a partner who was so personality-disordered/psychopathic that it nearly killed me—because I had basic human needs that were not met in my developmental years, as do a majority of people these days, driving me to be in a relationship regardless of the cost.

The mistake being was that I sought to “complete,” “fix,” or “find” myself through having a relationship with another. These types of superficial, need-based relationships can meet ones need for sex, touch, and companionship for a while, but they often must be “paid for” with a bit of your soul or soul-growth potential, and often they do not last.

Research, experience, and observation show that once people get beyond looks, the single most powerful element that both sexes find attractive is CONFIDENCE. Not a false, ego-based bravado, but a calm, quiet, sense of self, and purpose, and worth that emanates from ones core being. People who have achieved this level of functionality inevitable attract others who want this quality—the trick then becomes selecting someone at a similar level so you can help each other, not dominate and take advantage by vampiring the other’s strengths to fulfill needs that you should have learned somewhere along the line to met yourself.

This is why old people like myself who have had a lot of relationships and sex tell young people to stop worrying about finding someone and work on yourself and the “right” person will come along.

This is also why young people who have overwhelming feelings of need will continue to enter into entirely dysfunctional relationships and get their hearts broken, mess up their lives, and suffer abuse—which, ironically, all contributes to learning some of the most important lessons about yourself and life you will ever experience.

So, IMHO, in the end, relationships are probably the most important knowledge-gaining experiences we have in life and we all have to learn one way or another.
So, strive to be kind. Keep your ego in check. “Learning is Fun.” and “All is Lessons.”

Thanks for the post, shellycheval. Very well said. :D

Agreed. In a nutshell, you said all of what needs to be said on this topic shellycheval.
Couldn't have been said any better.

 

[hlat]

After all, if you can't manage your ordinary life, how the heck do you think you can move into other realms and manage them? You think the cosmos is gonna give the keys to a 4D vehicle to someone who can't even drive a 3D one?

There's the perspective of "do you deserve to have someone as good as you imagine". If you're playing video games and eating Doritos all day and you haven't read a book in 10 years, then you probably won't attract a partner who is deeply into esoteric knowledge. That's where the work on yourself part can help. When you start becoming like the kind of partner you want, it will be more likely for that kind of partner to want you.

The pick up artist stuff can help as a training wheel initially, but those are just bandaids when the necessary transformation is psychological. For a training wheel, what helped me was David Deangelo's Deep Inner Game first and then his Advanced Dating Techniques. Don't use your abilities for evil, don't be a predator.

 

[Deleted member 4320]

1) smile :) it's sick to smile in every situation as a clown, but the smile shows confidence, positive attitude, inner energy, so remember about smile, it's important.

2) eye contact: I stare into girls' eyes almost instantly, but in order to girl doesn't feel uncomfortable I skip from one her eye to other her eye and sometimes I look at the side.

3) pacing, mirroring: if you have a chance to observe pairs of lovers, they become similar to each other: take similar posture, they gesture in a similar manner, and even use the same words.

4) touch and break the woman's comfort zone in a subtle way: it brings together, builds a bond; the touch should be confident and authoritative; first touch the forearm, then, for example, shoulder and back, but do not hold her for long, because, as in the case of eye-contact, girl may feel uncomfortable. In short: touch briefly but confident and lordly, and escalate touch when you see that she feel good with it.

It's not rocket science. Those are simple steps which in the case of the successful man comes to him naturally. If someone is having trouble with any step it mean that he should have it in mind while contact with woman and consciously practice it until it becomes a natural.

The emotional and physical closeness should go hand in hand and clever man should overcome this like a gentleman, giving her a sense of security and comfort, and at the same time striving to break barriers for intimacy.

But, the very first thing is to overcome shyness, and initiate contact. This is very very very important because from that point the all things starts. It's something to take on the chest. There is no shortcuts. It's the matter gather up the courage and open mouth, even saying: "hi!" just to initiate contact. If one feels stress before approaching a woman, it's the matter to stop all excuses and just do what "it" doesn't like.

Some things are beyond our control, for example, odor and pheromones - chemistry. People in this matter match to one another or not, can't be done anything in this case.

Another thing is communication skills and the ability to create a good contact with woman. A lot of this is stored in the instincts. But if for some reason it was muffled and off, it have to be restored. The primary reason why women opt for a particular guy is how they feel with him, what emotions are going through her while she is in his company. And this should be the overriding objective: give her such emotions that she will want return to be with me. If one, will be done it successfully then he will have success with women, if one doesn't he won't.

This is how I see it.

 

[hlat]

It's not rocket science. Those are simple steps which in the case of the successful man comes to him naturally.

I don't agree. Many successful people did not have these social skills come naturally and had to learn them. It can be like rocket science when people have to unlearn the wrong things and learn the right things for the first time.

 

[Minas Tirith]

Hey Luke,

I am still young man and It's many to learn yet, but I noticed some things which are universal for most girls and women. At first, important is sense of closeness and safety. I have 4. ground rules when interacting with a woman/girl.

4) touch and break the woman's comfort zone in a subtle way: it brings together, builds a bond; the touch should be confident and authoritative; first touch the forearm, then, for example, shoulder and back, but do not hold her for long, because, as in the case of eye-contact, girl may feel uncomfortable. In short: touch briefly but confident and lordly, and escalate touch when you see that she feel good with it.

In my case this would be an absolute no-go. Sorry, but the above to me reads as absolute STS behavior. "Break a womans comfort-zone", I mean, are you serious?

EDIT: OK, I have read the other posts and agree that part of that pick-up artist stuff might actually help to get over initial inhibitions ... fair enough. However, I would say, that most girls sense when the other person is not "real" or "himself".

In my times there was the quote "With the right person, you can't do anything wrong".

Thanks, Shelly, very nice post.

M.T.

 

[Menna]

To break this down further we can look at what are basic human needs. The author of When the body says no in a interview said that humans have two needs first is expression to be able to express themselves. This takes on many forms either investigation of an area of life or continuing a hobby and other examples of expression. The next is to feel love/validated. This is regardless of female or male. Now I believe the first one being able to express yourself is needed however need to feel love/validated can be solved by proper work on yourself/gathering information through experience coming to an objective view about life, society and yourself and then accepting this objectivity.

To say its not rocket science is a cop out. It's a different subject then rocket science and im sure that if you studied rocket science from 18-40yrs old you would have an understanding of it however some people interact with others their whole life and still don't understand. It's not about it being rocket science or not its about first identifying what you want through developing singular I seeing objectivity of society/people and getting rid of blockage in your body so you can feel the energy/vibes between you and another. Actions speak louder than words but energy speaks louder than action. If you get to this point and have enough situation/life experience work on yourself then it gets easier and even then there are still variables. An example of a variable that can open up many variable doors is.What if the other doesn't know her/himself? No matter how singular you are or how much knowledge you have there is not much you can or should even want to do if the other has trauma, many I's and wounding. I am writing this taking into consideration that people in this thread are talking about a monogamously intimate long lasting (in terms of many years +) relationship. If you want to have casual sex with friends and enjoy different experiences with others then I think if you know yourself it doesn't matter if the other doesn't as you will the protection know when they are trying to feed, emotionally attach and manipulate and you can walk away/put up a boundary meet another person and carry on....I'm not saying ones wrong or ones right I'm just saying that there are different type of interactions/relationships and with that come different variables/circumstances then the work on self is used differently. Everyone's experiences are different so the advice or quotes can help but at the end of the day it's best to follow the advice but also use your internal instruments so you can learn without the training wheels because they will be taken off eventually the lesson will get ya and if you sont learn it will come back around again the people, places and year might change but the essence of the lesson is the same IMO

 

[luke wilson]

Thanks Shelly, very wise and spoken from experience so I can't help but contemplate your words.

Lux, I know what you mean. I recently read that women have competing needs when it comes to relationships. On the one hand, they want protection (i.e. a man that can offer protection e.g. financially) on the other hand they want excitement (so they want a man who can make them feel that whirlwind of emotions e.g. think bad boys). So they say that in their 20's, late teens, girls in general tend towards the bad boys, the excitement but as they grow old and the window is closing down, they tend towards the protector... then apparently somewhere down the line once the kids are all grown, they deviate back to wanting a little bit more excitement in their life. However, both qualities are not mutually exclusive in a guy (protector vs having this bad boy qualities) so from a girl's point of view, she is trying to find the guy with the right balance of these 2 qualities who will also want her, as she is competing with other girls for the same pool of guys.... It all gets very complicated and in what I read, this whole arena was broken down into a market analogy.

So as a guy, I enter this market with my qualities... whether I like it or not. On the one hand I have my 'protector attributes' which I am constantly broadcasting e.g. by what you wear, personality that demonstrates a certain level of education, by what job you have etc, on the other I display this ability to make a girl feel this whirlwind of good emotions e.g. by the rapport/flirtation skills you display and even by having those rugged jagged looks that scream you have confidence and vitality i.e. good genes. Furthermore it's all relative depending on your environment because you aren't being judged in isolation but rather in comparison with what else is on offer and this changes depending on where you are. All crazy stuff if you ask me but god dammit, it makes so much sense...

Any ways, regarding what you said about the fear of saying 'Hi', opening your mouth and initiating contact... in the PUA community that is called approach anxiety abbreviated as AA but I recently heard someone call it a different name, Assessment Anxiety (AA). With this view, the fear is in being judged and assessed in the sense that if I walk up to a girl and start interacting with her in the sense of I want to really be close to her, she is going to assess my viability and give me feedback by how she responds back to me. A positive response means I am passing the assessment, a negative means I am getting feedback that something is wrong somewhere (e.g. poor social skills, loser'ish appearance, lack of confidence etc). He said it's like going to the gym for the first time, when you start lifting those weights, you body gets direct feedback which is usually pain indicating you are not fit. So a guy to overcome this works through the pain and eventually moves up weight grades naturally i.e. you become better with the right training. However, when it comes to girls... nope we don't want the direct feedback thus we choose to keep the mouth shut. In fact, he says, in the gym for example, guys crave that muscle burn... they know it was a good session when they feel that burn. But when it comes to girls and interaction... nope, the burn is taken as an indication to run and hide.

Going back to Shelly and her last point about why young people keep entering dysfunctional relationships, well to me it becomes somewhat clearer as to the reasons... a girl may cash out of the market with the bad boy and hope to tame him but over time she won't receive that stable emotional closeness she craves which will lead to instability or he may simply stray which will lead to a break up of the relationship... on the other hand she may go for the protector and over time she won't get that excitement she craves, he's a stable guy, she's well cared for financially but life is somewhat boring. There's a continuum or scale between the 2 ends. It all gets so very Darwinistic and just very very sad..

 

[Yozilla]

4) touch and break the woman's comfort zone in a subtle way: it brings together, builds a bond; the touch should be confident and authoritative; first touch the forearm, then, for example, shoulder and back, but do not hold her for long, because, as in the case of eye-contact, girl may feel uncomfortable. In short: touch briefly but confident and lordly, and escalate touch when you see that she feel good with it.

Hm this above reminds me of DVD called something like "How to get a date" with some freaks explaining how to sleep with lot of women - basically it was about quantity not "quality". Like getting lay frenzy instructions...

Lux, I know what you mean. I recently read that women have competing needs when it comes to relationships. On the one hand, they want protection (i.e. a man that can offer protection e.g. financially) on the other hand they want excitement (so they want a man who can make them feel that whirlwind of emotions e.g. think bad boys).

Gosh those women NEEDS again!

I often wonder if those are just programs...

 

[lainey]

4) touch and break the woman's comfort zone in a subtle way: it brings together, builds a bond; the touch should be confident and authoritative; first touch the forearm, then, for example, shoulder and back, but do not hold her for long, because, as in the case of eye-contact, girl may feel uncomfortable. In short: touch briefly but confident and lordly, and escalate touch when you see that she feel good with it.

Hm this above reminds me of DVD called something like "How to get a date" with some freaks explaining how to sleep with lot of women - basically it was about quantity not "quality". Like getting lay frenzy instructions...

Lux, I know what you mean. I recently read that women have competing needs when it comes to relationships. On the one hand, they want protection (i.e. a man that can offer protection e.g. financially) on the other hand they want excitement (so they want a man who can make them feel that whirlwind of emotions e.g. think bad boys).

Gosh those women NEEDS again!

I often wonder if those are just programs...

Those step by step instructions struck me as kinda weird. Isn't the point just being yourself and doing what is natural to you and when you meet the right person they just "fit" and there is no need to find a manual to explain "needs" or how you should change to meet the expectations of someone else. If you have focused your energy on work on yourself all the obstacles most relationships come up against shouldn't be a problem if you are aware and open. I kind of swing towards having a polar opposite who I may or may not meet in this life and I'm just not that interested in actively finding a partner right now. If the right person comes along, they come along. great, if not, great. I'd much rather focus my time on self development and building trusting, platonic relationships and friendships. I believe we can learn to nurture each other and don't necessarily need to have a "partner" to be happy. Just my opinion though.

 

[Menna]

I am posting this again because my above post is sloppy towards the end and I can't edit it:

To break this down further we can look at what are basic human needs. The author of When the body says no in a interview said that humans have two needs first is expression to be able to express themselves. This takes on many forms either investigation of an area of life or continuing a hobby and other examples of expression. The next is to feel love/validated. This is regardless of female or male. Now I believe the first one being able to express yourself is needed however need to feel love/validated can be solved by proper work on yourself/gathering information through experience coming to an objective view about life, society and yourself and then accepting this objectivity.

To say its not rocket science is a cop out. It's a different subject then rocket science and im sure that if you studied rocket science from 18-40yrs old you would have an understanding of it however some people interact with others their whole life and still don't understand. It's not about it being rocket science or not its about first identifying what you want through developing singular I seeing objectivity of society/people and getting rid of blockage in your body so you can feel the energy/vibes between you and another. Actions speak louder than words but energy speaks louder than action. If you get to this point and have enough situation/life experience and work on yourself then it gets easier and even then there are still variables. An example of a variable that can open up many variable doors is.What if the other doesn't know her/himself? No matter how singular you are or how much knowledge you have there is not much you can or should even want to do if the other has trauma, many I's and wounding. I am writing this taking into consideration that people in this thread are talking about a monogamously intimate long lasting (in terms of many years +) relationship. If you want to have casual sex with friends and enjoy different experiences with others then I think if you know yourself it doesn't matter if the other doesn't as you will the protection know when they are trying to feed, emotionally attach and manipulate and you can walk away/put up a boundary meet another person and carry on...There are different types of interactions/relationships and with that come different variables/circumstances not just four. The work on self and knowledge gained from this work is then applied according to the specific situation. Advice, guidelines and or quotes can help but at the end of the day it's best to use your internal instruments so you can learn without the training wheels. If you can not navigate through lifes situations with your mental/emotional functions then the lessons will guide you to where you are suppose to be. If you don't learn from the lesson it will come back around again and again the people, places and year might change but the essence of the lesson is the same IMO

 

[lainey]

I am posting this again because my above post is sloppy towards the end and I can't edit it:

To break this down further we can look at what are basic human needs. The author of When the body says no in a interview said that humans have two needs first is expression to be able to express themselves. This takes on many forms either investigation of an area of life or continuing a hobby and other examples of expression. The next is to feel love/validated. This is regardless of female or male. Now I believe the first one being able to express yourself is needed however need to feel love/validated can be solved by proper work on yourself/gathering information through experience coming to an objective view about life, society and yourself and then accepting this objectivity.

To say its not rocket science is a cop out. It's a different subject then rocket science and im sure that if you studied rocket science from 18-40yrs old you would have an understanding of it however some people interact with others their whole life and still don't understand. It's not about it being rocket science or not its about first identifying what you want through developing singular I seeing objectivity of society/people and getting rid of blockage in your body so you can feel the energy/vibes between you and another. Actions speak louder than words but energy speaks louder than action. If you get to this point and have enough situation/life experience and work on yourself then it gets easier and even then there are still variables. An example of a variable that can open up many variable doors is.What if the other doesn't know her/himself? No matter how singular you are or how much knowledge you have there is not much you can or should even want to do if the other has trauma, many I's and wounding. I am writing this taking into consideration that people in this thread are talking about a monogamously intimate long lasting (in terms of many years +) relationship. If you want to have casual sex with friends and enjoy different experiences with others then I think if you know yourself it doesn't matter if the other doesn't as you will the protection know when they are trying to feed, emotionally attach and manipulate and you can walk away/put up a boundary meet another person and carry on...There are different types of interactions/relationships and with that come different variables/circumstances not just four. The work on self and knowledge gained from this work is then applied according to the specific situation. Advice, guidelines and or quotes can help but at the end of the day it's best to use your internal instruments so you can learn without the training wheels. If you can not navigate through lifes situations with your mental/emotional functions then the lessons will guide you to where you are suppose to be. If you don't learn from the lesson it will come back around again and again the people, places and year might change but the essence of the lesson is the same IMO

Nicely written Menna

 

[Deleted member 4320]

Let's do what you think is appropriate. It depends on you how will look your relationships with women :) I see effects in my life, I learn new things and I will learn new things, develop and expand my skills. Sometimes, it's something of which at some point I realize on my own. Sometimes, it's something that I read and I notice that in my case it works, and then I use it in life. I have my own preferred style and manner. Do not talk so much just let's get to work, success with women mainly depend on the experience in practice :) Good luck men!

 

[Alchemie]

@Menna
You have a lot aptly described.
People wear all their personal trauma packs, the course also reflected in partnerships or in search of relationships.

I've been through some drama and tests; and that can really occur spontaneously and abstract-this world is creative. I currently also have a large blockage from my childhood that I should solve with my husband - the trauma work's sake.
I have learned early that true love has rather nothing to do with the hormonal urges, but with very hard work in yourself. The pink-red romatic fantasies (e.g. women's romantic- novels) help only at most rediscover the body perception.

 

[Menna]

I currently also have a large blockage from my childhood

Do your practice EE? Have you read the books here on codependency and narcissism

 

[Mal7]

So in a way, what I learnt is that you have to get over your hang up and show intent sooner before you fall into that friendship trap because once you are in that zone, it just becomes weird to show that all of a sudden you always found them attractive but didn't know how to go about it.

There is the romantic idea of two people falling head-over-heels in love-at-first-sight and then ending up in a physical relationship, like it happens in the movies. Most commonly, this may be just a chemical soup of hormones and unconscious attractions to certain features based on past associations. In that case, I think maybe treating others as friends first should not be under-rated. The "friendship-zone" is quite a popular meme, and generates some quite funny cartoons. Maybe though the "friendship-zone" concept is a product of a relatively promiscuous culture and shouldn't be taken too seriously?

In finding partners I think we are looking for intimacy, but having physical relations with a person we have just met is not necessarily intimate in the sense of intimacy that is of most value (I think that kind of intimacy would involve learning more about the other person on the kind of "mental plane" level - what they like, what they think about things, how they tick.) M Scott Peck's book "The Road Less Travelled" had a couple of chapters that I thought were quite good about dismissing the idea of romantic love, and suggesting instead that loving someone is better described as making a conscious decision and commitment. "The Narcissistic Family" by Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman & Robert M. Pressman also has a short chapter on Intimacy, Sex, and Friendship:

[. . .] there is a world of difference between recreational or procreational sex, and sex as an expression of deep feeling and commitment. As the heroine in a recent best-seller says, "In some ways, loving is easy. It's trusting that's so hard." Our corollary to that is that sex may be easy, but intimacy is hard.

- p. 122.