Gagging while Swallowing Fat

Keyhole said:
Did you also used to get a build up of phlegm? I originally cut butter out for about 6 or 7 months, went back to it and it still causes the same problems although they seem to be more noticable now.

Hm, no I don't get a build up of phlegm from butter, though I checked on the internet and there have been others out there who reported the same as you have. Perhaps as Gedgaudas explains below, you have a high casein sensitivity?

_http://www.primalbody-primalmind.com/question-about-butter/
One thing to consider, however, is the possibility of casein sensitivity. Those with casein sensitivity may not tolerate butter well due to the presence of milk solids in it. I have casein sensitivity but can tolerate butter in small doses. Others may not be able to, however and may do better with something like butter oil or ghee.

Maybe when you introduce it again after a gut-healing protocol, you can try it out in small doses? :)
 
On the subject of chocolate, After the 10-day protocol that Carl found a few weeks back, I ended up relaying and having some... Usually for 3 days afterwards I'd just have severe neck ache, but this time I didn't get neck ache at all! Although I did get other symptoms like nausea, up and down moods etc. Seems the protocol might have actually done some good!
 
What kind of chocolate? Ingredients?

I found that raw cocao nibs are one of the few fibrous plant foods I can eat without getting bloated.
 
85%, cacao, sugar, vanilla, coco mass etc, nothing major. I'm not suggesting it though lol! Much better to make your own chocolate I guess with butter and cacao powder, I've recently started using the cacao nibs in my fat bombs as well, not found any symptoms from that... adds a nice texture too! :)
 
I find it's usually the sugar that hits me hardest. Good gut bacteria may help with sugar but not for long, because when you eat sugar you are feeding the wrong life forms. And remember whatever you eat stays in there for 3 days or so...
 
monotonic said:
I find it's usually the sugar that hits me hardest. Good gut bacteria may help with sugar but not for long, because when you eat sugar you are feeding the wrong life forms. And remember whatever you eat stays in there for 3 days or so...

Duly noted! I haven't felt so good for the three days after it, I was just extremely surprised that I had no neck ache.
Neck ache is my usual inflammatory response to certain foods, stress etc.

Sugar certainly hits the hardest!
 
Lilyalic said:
85%, cacao, sugar, vanilla, coco mass etc, nothing major. I'm not suggesting it though lol! Much better to make your own chocolate I guess with butter and cacao powder, I've recently started using the cacao nibs in my fat bombs as well, not found any symptoms from that... adds a nice texture too! :)
Sadly even 99% chocolate is a no-no for me which links in to the recent posts on the keto thread about foods high in sulphur:

RedFox said:
Broccoli may be a problem because it's a high sulphur food.
Too much sulphur in food or too much HCL (which is sulphuric acid) produce the same results for me, digestive problems followed by fatigue.

Taking the GG probiotics as well as a whole bunch of soil based probiotics helped fix some of this, so did the berberine.
The MTHFR protocol apparently helps unload your body of stored sulphur too (I need to check if I have a CBS/SOUX mutation), and I do notice my capacity to handle sulphur containing food has increased.

I posted about a connection to crones/fibromyalga and the type of gut bacteria you have somewhere on the forum. The difference between remission or not was related to sulphur reducing bacteria in the gut - can't remember if they where high/low in those in remission or not.

So just to check my understanding is correct I hit google:
https://www.paleohacks.com/paleo/sulfur-intolerance-aka-poor-sulfur-oxidation-ever-heard-of-it-6702
Sulfur intolerance is a misnomer. Most with this issue have a problem with foods with a high level of free thiol groups. It also tends to walk hand and hand with Hg toxicity and Selenium deficiency and severe thyroid dysfunction.

The thiol groups allow the Hg to become free in vivo and cause the symptoms. The food does not have to have high sulfur levels to cause this. The most common causes of this in the USA are coffee and chocolate in my experience.

The diagnosis is suspected in those with high Mercury levels. Chelation is the best treatment for this.

We used to have an easy screening test called a plasma cysteine test but it is no longer available to my knowledge. So now you have to do a sulfur exclusion test. Pain in the ass too. In the old days when plasma cysteine was up we would just put you on glutamine and glycine supplements and this would convert the cysteine to glutathione in vivo and it worked real well.

The real reason this is a big issue for paleo folks is many of the foods advocated in paleo 1.0 books have to be eliminated due to the sulfur intolerance. For example, and milk of any kind, kale, sauerkraut, artichokes, eggs, cream, turmeric, spinach, whey, garlic broccoli, cauliflower, onions and all cheeses of any sort.

Kinda sucks.

And I just looked this up on the internet:

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/high-sulfur-sulphur-food-list/

In his excellent book “Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment”, Andy Cutler informs us that many mercury-toxic people are intolerant to certain foods, commonly known as ‘sulfur foods’, which have a high free thiol content. Consuming foods high in thiols raises the circulating thiol levels which in turn mobilizes mercury and creates symptoms.

He notes, “You typically get a couple of hours of feeling good, energized, happy, and then libidinous, then you feel tired, draggy and depressed, which goes on for a day to a week. Of course if you are eating sulfur foods at each meal these all get stacked up and you can never figure out what is happening.”
The onset of reaction of symptoms is fairly prompt, with the tired/icky/depressed part starting within a few hours, and can last for 4-7 days. You might even enjoy eating these foods and believe that they do you no harm, but their reactions can cause you a lot of undue suffering.

Important: It is only food that contains a high level of free thiol groups, and not literally any food that contains elemental sulfur in any form, that are the culprits.
Andy states: “You’ll find a lot of misleading ‘sulfur’ lists on the web. I’m talking about those compounds that are thiols or that metabolically convert to them, not to the total amount of elemental sulfur in the food. Some forms don’t convert very much and are tolerated at much higher levels than others. E. g. meat is in theory quite sulfury, but in fact a lot of the sulfur stays in the methionine rather than thiol form so it is a less potent thiol source than an elemental analysis would suggest. Especially if you are taking TMG or choline which helps provide methyl groups so the methionine doesn’t need to get metabolized.” [Source]

The Onibasu.com summary says:
“Plasma cysteine status [in the general population] is either low, normal or high. This is different from cystine status. It is a strong indicator of whether someone will tolerate or not tolerate high sulfur (thiol) foods or supplements. This has nothing to do with plasma sulfate (SO4) status or liver sulfation status. Plasma sulfate status can be independently low, normal or high. See Sulfation issues and treatment . It is possible for cysteine status to change as chelation progresses. However it stays stable for long periods of time. The plasma cysteine test is not available anymore. The only way to determine this is to do a sulfur exclusion trial. Sulfur foods and supplements are those containing a thiol group. Some sulfur foods are not obviously sulfury (like coffee and chocolate). NAC is an example of a thiol supplement. The negative effects of sulfur on high cysteine people may occur over a 4-7 day period after the last sulfur ingestion. This is why Cutler recommends a 7 day exclusion with no ALA chelation during sulfur exclusion. Sulfur foods can worsen yeast issues”. [Source: Onibasu]

Andy notes: “I estimate that 33-50% of mercury toxic people have elevated plasma cysteine”, which effectively means that those people will battle with sulfur foods. In essence, everybody planning to chelate should do a sulfur exclusion trial at least once to determine if there is a sensitivity to sulphur foods and avoid a lot of suffering.

The sulfur exclusion trial is done as follows:


Many of these misleading ‘sulfur food’ lists on the web are simply indicating the total amount of elemental sulfur, rather than talking about foods that contain thiols, or that metabolically convert into them.

All high thiol foods and supplements containing thiol groups (see list below) are strictly avoided for a seven day period to allow the effect of the last ingestion to wear off. Again, the negative effects of sulfur occur over a 4-7 day period after the last sulfur ingestion, which means you need to exclude all sulfur foods AND sulfur supplements for at least a week before you know what is going on.


ALA is also on this list and thus no ALA chelation should be done during the sulfur exclusion trial.
Then, after ten days the high thiol foods are added sharply back to your diet and you eat a lot of them for a week, noticing what happens to your health over this time. If you feel worse soon after introducing sulfur foods, you do not need to do this for a week as it indicates you are better off eliminating sulfur foods.
If your health improves while off the sulfur foods and regresses after adding them back, you have an intolerance to them and should avoid them.

Sulfur food intolerance in mercury toxic people has more to do with the mobilization of mercury caused by raised cysteine levels and excess thiols, rather than a direct allergy/intolerance to sulfur foods per se. Either way, you will need to avoid them if you show an intolerance to them, or, as some people have found, keep them to an absolute minimum. It seems there is a critical threshold of high thiol food intake for many and if you remain below this, little harm is done.
The foods mentioned on the ‘food high thiol’ list below, are ones that are metabolized in a specific sulfur pathway that causes the problems for mercury toxic people by increasing free thiol levels. These foods contain the free thiol groups that interact with and mobilize mercury inducing symptoms such as tiredness, emotional distress and other non-specific ailments.

Andy Cutler also says: “If you have elevated cysteine and you want to convert some to glutathione, take a 2:1 weight ratio of glutamine and glycine (e. g. 2 500 mg caps of glutamine with 1 500 mg cap of glycine) and your body will do the rest.”
 
Yeah I just read this on the keto thread, I had NO idea turmeric could actually cause negative reactions! This diet just gets more and more complex, what can the human body consume ?!

Explains why I felt so bad after a BBQ the other day and ate loads of spring onions!!
 
When I first found out about coconut oil, I was able to eat it from the jar with a spoon without any gag reflex. I craved it, even. A few weeks later, the cravings were gone and it would be difficult to swallow. At that point I started mixing it into omelettes and scrambled eggs, which makes them more delicious and helps me up the fat content of the meal.
I've been wanting to try making a fat bomb but haven't gotten around to it yet. Soon perhaps :P
 
Hello Mildain,

I had same problem like you but now I make Fat Tea to drink about 3 times per day, and I like it very much. Especially butter tea is very tasty. I make it like tea but use Fat instead tea leaf.

Hot water+ pork fat or butter and salt.
Hot water+ coconut oil and organic raw apple cider vinegar
 
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