Ketogenic Diet - Powerful Dietary Strategy for Certain Conditions

[Hope]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I agree with Laura. If you have a really hard time sourcing grass-fed, then just supplement the omega 3's - i.e. fishoil/krill oil, etc. By the way, if you want to get into ketosis, it's unlikely to happen if you don't go below 50 grams of net carbs per day and up your fat intake to keep your total calories the same. Ideally, if you want to go keto and stay there, you should shoot to get 75 to 85 % of your daily calories from fat. Good luck with the adventures.

Right now I am increasing my carb intake a bit to see if maybe its the low carb that is causing these small short chest pains at times and sluggishness(125-150 total carbs). It could be from lifting weights or heartburn. I will also be eliminating chocolate to see if maybe its that, its known to make GERD worse and the theobromine can overestimate one too. I think nutritional ketosis right now would be a bad idea because it will put my body in more stress when I am already having possible side effects from low carb but I will keep that in mind. Don't know but both times when I started to lower my carbs, I felt good and now not so much!?

http://chriskresser.com/the-fish-vs-fish-oil-smackdown/

I've read (sorry can't remember where) that fish oils are better bought in the winter time and stored in the refrigerator. Since fish oil is sourced from cold water fish it only makes sense that you don't want it to get too hot, hence buying it in the wintertime since you don't want fish oil that's been sitting around in a hot warehouse and shipped to you in a hot truck. The bottle and capsules should be dark to protect them from light.

Thanks for the info. I have not taken fish oil in a long time but will buy some soon and good thing summer almost is over.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Right now I am increasing my carb intake a bit to see if maybe its the low carb that is causing these small short chest pains at times and sluggishness(125-150 total carbs). It could be from lifting weights or heartburn. I will also be eliminating chocolate to see if maybe its that, its known to make GERD worse and the theobromine can overestimate one too. I think nutritional ketosis right now would be a bad idea because it will put my body in more stress when I am already having possible side effects from low carb but I will keep that in mind. Don't know but both times when I started to lower my carbs, I felt good and now not so much!?

That was the same issue I had. Plus, my RA symptoms that had been so much better sort of hit a wall. That's when the idea of infection being at the root of RA and other autoimmune and related illnesses came across my desk and I began to look into it. Interestingly, it now seems that it is the "critters" that were running the show and as I've dealt with the infection issue, ketosis is very different. Those who don't have a serious condition can follow natural, herbal protocols for ridding the body of biofilms, infections, fungal issues, etc.

 

[lainey]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I don't think it's about gluten contamination per se, but rather that the quality of the meat is low: the animals don't get the required nutrition, and you'll have the wrong ratio of omega-6 vs omega-3 fatty acids in the meat, which leads to inflammation. Further, with factory farmed animals you can be pretty sure that they're being fed with GMO's.
So if you can afford it, pastured meat is always the best choice.

If you can't afford it, just make do as best you can and supplement with fish oils, etc.

Also, if you are lucky enough to live outside of the good old USA, the quality of supermarket meat will be somewhat better. Particularly in the UK and other areas, sheep and cows are generally part or mostly 'grass fed' because they stand around on grass most of the time.

Just a little snippet on grass fed meat that I noticed in a recent article carried by SOTT:

Diet of the source: Colostrum from grass fed and organic sources are best, but I am skeptical when a company merely states that their product is from "grass fed" cows because grass isn't always available 365 days of the year. Of all the products I have found that say they are "grass fed", none of them claim to be 100%. I went with the brand I currently use because they do no advertise as being "grass fed" even though their cows are primarily pasture raised, grass fed and supplemented with grain feed that is organic, soy free and non-GMO.

http://www.sott.net/article/301278-How-Colostrum-can-help-heal-leaky-gut-syndrome

I had a further look to see what the animals were fed in winter:

http://grassrunfarms.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/what-do-grass-fed-cattle-eat-in-winter.html

The answer depends on where the cattle live (geographically speaking) and their age/size during the winter months -- a middle-schooler has different dietary needs than a college senior, for example -- but in all seriousness, this question gets at the most critical issue in grass-fed beef production.

Often a cattle farmer's livelihood depends on careful cost-management of stored feeds -- anything the animal can't harvest itself -- because those calories directly impact the number of days it will ultimately take that animal to mature to harvest.

In our part of the world, this is especially tricky because producers must grow/store or secure alternatives to the most-available commodity feed sources -- corn and soy.

The goal is to build a balanced diet that meets a cow's need for protein and fiber but without grains, which are hard for cattle to digest.

Here are some of the grass-fed beef producer's options:

Dry Hay: Mixed grass or alfalfa hay cut and baled in the summer months. In Iowa, producers may harvest up to four 'cuttings' of hay per summer (they cut, rake, and bale the hay, then let it re-grow to harvest again, as weather permits). These 'crops' aren't usually equal in nutritional value, and the more uniform and substantial the bales, the higher the price, if it's grown by others.

Haylage: This is hay that is cut and 'put up' or stored before it has dried as much as is optimal for dry baling. The residual moisture in the crop causes it to ferment and break down, making the feed more easily digestible overall (cattle get more nutrients from it per unit than if their bodies spent calories digesting the original stems). The trade-off is that you can't 'stack' haylage like bales -- it requires either a silo structure or storage in a long row of plastic sheeting called a 'bag', requiring specialized equipment. This incurs additional cost.

Cool-Season and Warm-Season Annuals: Immature oats, triticale, rye, sorghum-sudangrass and other plants that are harvested before a seed head or starch forms, while the plant's energy is stored as sugar in its tender stems. These are usually harvested 'wet' as haylage or baleage (baled as 'regular' hay). Annual crops tend to yield more per acre and produce more uniform, tender and digestible forage, but they incur the cost and soil disruption of planting, as well as the same handling challenges and expense as haylage. The heavier the feed, the larger the equipment needed to haul it to animals, increasing its overall cost in fuel and labor.

Molasses: What?! Yes, that's right. Molasses provides sugar for energy and entices the cattle to clean up their ration (who wouldn't want their hay lightly sweetened?) and minimize waste. It also 'feeds' the flora of a beef cow's rumen, increasing productivity. Finally, it has a low freezing point (as low as -45 degrees F) and will 'run' -- if slowly -- on all but the coldest days of the year. You might guess the trade-offs: managing its endlessly sticky viscous-ness, and its cost.

Raw Vinegar: Again, yes, I hear your disbelief. Many grass-fed producers regularly mix raw apple cider vinegar with their feed because it is proven to improve and regulate cattle digestion and act as a natural anthelmintic, keeping internal parasites in check. It's cooling and soothing in the summer months, too, when added to a herd's water supply.



Heavy plastic cattle mineral feeder
Cattle Salt or Mineral Feeder
Free-Choice Salt, Vitamins and Minerals: If you've ever watched your dog or cat seek out and chow down on green grass/leaves -- or you yourself have had to sate an insistent taste for salt, fruits or vegetables -- you will understand that cattle obey their bodies' natural craving for vitamins and minerals beyond their daily diet. To keep the animals' bodies balanced and running optimally, producers will offer a buffet of loose salts, vitamins and minerals, usually stored out on pasture in a pie-shaped feeder on which cattle can lift the rubber lid and lick up what they need.

All told, feeding grass-fed cattle in winter is rather exact, helping the farmer maintain a firm grip on the cost per pound of an animal's gain.

Of course, there's no way to know whether all these ingredients will pay off until you're looking literally at ribeye on the grill, but, I will say, it's that vision that can warm your gut (or fingers or toes or nose) when Winter is blowing at -20 degrees windchill, and you're hopping off the tractor to open a gate or break up the ice on a water trough.

I know some of the farmers here in Scotland supplement with hay during the winter.

Also from Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_feeding

In grass-fed or pasture-fed cattle, grass and other forage compose most or the majority of the grass-fed diet. The debate is whether cattle should be raised on diets primarily composed of pasture (grass) or a concentrated diet of grain, soy, and other supplements.[5] The issue is often complicated by the political interests and confusion between labels such as "free range," "organic", or "natural." Cattle raised on a primarily forage diet are termed grass-fed or pasture-raised; meat or milk may be called grass-fed beef or pasture-raised dairy. However, the term "pasture-raised" can lead to confusion with the term "free range" which does not describe exactly what the animals eat. Another term is "grass-finished."

So it's good to remember that "organic" and "free range" doesn't necessarily mean grass-fed. It's probably better to have a face to face discussion with a local farmer in your area so you know exactly what you are getting.

 

[Hope]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Right now I am increasing my carb intake a bit to see if maybe its the low carb that is causing these small short chest pains at times and sluggishness(125-150 total carbs). It could be from lifting weights or heartburn. I will also be eliminating chocolate to see if maybe its that, its known to make GERD worse and the theobromine can overestimate one too. I think nutritional ketosis right now would be a bad idea because it will put my body in more stress when I am already having possible side effects from low carb but I will keep that in mind. Don't know but both times when I started to lower my carbs, I felt good and now not so much!?

That was the same issue I had. Plus, my RA symptoms that had been so much better sort of hit a wall. That's when the idea of infection being at the root of RA and other autoimmune and related illnesses came across my desk and I began to look into it. Interestingly, it now seems that it is the "critters" that were running the show and as I've dealt with the infection issue, ketosis is very different. Those who don't have a serious condition can follow natural, herbal protocols for ridding the body of biofilms, infections, fungal issues, etc.

Hi Laura,

It is a very great discovery! I also think I might have chronic infection issues, I remember seeing a tick in the kitchen floor and having a red rash on my back when all these physical neruo symptoms started back in 2009 but at the same time I was also taking MMS so I pretty sure that played a part . I did get the ELISA lyme test done twice and it came back negative. Through out all these years I have had a suspicion that I might have Lyme or some type of infection. Right now I am trying to eat as healthy as I can and then I will do DMSA detox and then proceed to do the anti parasitic protocol. I want to do it under a care of a doctor but docs that are somewhat experienced in such things usually cost a arm and leg! So we will see but I will surely do my homework before starting it.

Regrading my diet I have been eating 100-150grams of carbs a day, moderate protein and getting the rest of my intake from fat. I have improvements in my health but still feel sluggish, fatigued and have weak arms. Part of me thinks its just changes or a herx/detox reaction. But maybe its sill my electrolytes. Yesterday I had 10-14 glasses of water, 3 grams of sodium(0.75 teaspoon from salted water), took my potassium and magnesium pills. I don't think its my electrolytes but I could be wrong so I am going try taking more sodium and I will get my levels checked this Wednesday. My question is should you worry about taking in too much salt? Should you measure it out? Even on Paleo you could become sodium deficient easily.

Mark Sission and some other paleo proponents say that you could eat up to 150 grams of carbs a day while getting most of your energy intake from fat. Wondering if that still applies if you trying to gain weight and eating that many carbs while eating 200-225 grams of fat a day? Because that's what I am doing right now. How else to eat enough on Paleo? Still weigh 120lbs at 5'10, maybe its these bugs sucking the life out of me!

Anyways the chest aches have stopped, I will give this more time and see if things improve. If not will probably go back to eating high carb. Sorry for responding late, been too occupied by work. Thank you everyone for the help.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It is a very great discovery! I also think I might have chronic infection issues, I remember seeing a tick in the kitchen floor and having a red rash on my back when all these physical neruo symptoms started back in 2009 but at the same time I was also taking MMS so I pretty sure that played a part . I did get the ELISA lyme test done twice and it came back negative. Through out all these years I have had a suspicion that I might have Lyme or some type of infection. Right now I am trying to eat as healthy as I can and then I will do DMSA detox and then proceed to do the anti parasitic protocol. I want to do it under a care of a doctor but docs that are somewhat experienced in such things usually cost a arm and leg! So we will see but I will surely do my homework before starting it.

As was mentioned in the "AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?" thread, you can get very reasonable help through the process via Dr. Gaby's website. health-matrix.net

 

[Hope]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

It is a very great discovery! I also think I might have chronic infection issues, I remember seeing a tick in the kitchen floor and having a red rash on my back when all these physical neruo symptoms started back in 2009 but at the same time I was also taking MMS so I pretty sure that played a part . I did get the ELISA lyme test done twice and it came back negative. Through out all these years I have had a suspicion that I might have Lyme or some type of infection. Right now I am trying to eat as healthy as I can and then I will do DMSA detox and then proceed to do the anti parasitic protocol. I want to do it under a care of a doctor but docs that are somewhat experienced in such things usually cost a arm and leg! So we will see but I will surely do my homework before starting it.

As was mentioned in the "AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?" thread, you can get very reasonable help through the process via Dr. Gaby's website. health-matrix.net

I have been in contact with Gaby for a year now, very grateful for her help! I was thinking of having help in person but we will see. Really want do try the anti parasitic protocal, I really have tired to eat healthy as I can but have had minimal results, pretty sure there are other things going on as well.

See I keep asking the same question about salt over and over, when I already answered my own question, weird! Yesterday I had some intense anxiety and ocd out of the blue, think it was the nuts I had. So I will keep making changes and experiment to see what works best for me.

Sorry if I hijacked the thread, once again thank you!

 

[RedFox]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Cross posting this, incase others have missed any of the peices I found:

Yes I get most of my fat from butter, coconut oil, and coconut milk. I usually have a serving or two of Gaby's fatbomb or if I do not have time to make fatbombs. I just have a stick of butter and a cup of coconut of milk through out the day, along with my carbs and protein. I do believe that I might be having too much fat, especially at once.

Have thought about the possibility of reacting to both coconut and butter, I know some people get digestive issues if they take in too much coconut milk and coconut oil. Also wasn't you huxley that had issues with butter causing anxiety? I do have issues with phlegm build up and I think its most likely the butter.

Will eliminate the coconut products for a while and make ghee. And also will add lard or beef tallow. I am just worried about losing any more weight, right now I am at 120lbs at 5'10 height.

When I do pass stool it usually comes out in nuggets?! And sometimes I need to go a couple of times in a hour time span too get it all out so that's sign of constipation. But at the same time I have these mild wet flatulences from time to time so I definitely have some digestive issues, hopefully these changes will help.

Hi Lilyalic and Laura,

I have not even attempted the Ketogenic diet in the strictest since. Have kept my total carb intake around 70-125 grams a day, sometimes a bit higher but now will lower it around to 70-100g after eliminating the fructose rich foods.

I do believe that there is a good chance that I have serious infection(s). All these years I have had a strong suspension of having Lyme, after seeing that tick on the kitchen floor and having a red rash on my back right around that time. At times I would randomly start researching doxy, thinking maybe I should get some from Mexico and try a couple rounds out it lol!

Even with eating clean, I am still have serious problems with anxiety, ocd, paranoia, and even aggression at times. Probably one of the possessed ones :/. Will start reading and researching even more on the subject of treating infections.

Hi AD
I've been through very similar situations over the years, so I'll try and share what worked the best.

The loosing weight thread riclapaz linked above, I posted too in 2010 about similar things.
I also posted to this thread in 2014.
The most long lasting effects on my health (and weight) here (if you are Mexican you have a higher than average change of having this mutation), and here.

I'd drop the coconut milk for sure - one of the things I learned is that I don't obviously react to a lot of foods.
What is likely happening though is my gut get's inflamed (do you get neck/head/shoulder pain? that's usually a sign), which means if I eat the wrong thing it blocks the absorption of nutrients. I loose weight.
Your description of your stools suggest a digestive problem (or several).

Gut healing, have a look at Berberine (it was the only thing that healed my guts out of every other supplement I tried, taken along side the MTHFR protocol) and bone broth along with the threads in this section.
Digestive support. When you are stressed/tired, your body struggles to digest food properly.
Candida may be inflaming your guts and/or eating up the nutrients you need. Look into Bromelain.
Liver stress, be careful of things that stress your liver (chemicals, some supplements, infections) and support it with Milk Thistle.
Get the right probiotics.


The second things I learned over this time was stress and poor sleep make me loose weight. A week of stress or interupted sleep and I'll loose a few kg! I had to drop the cold showers for that reason.
Going keto is also stressful, so is candida or other infections. Thinking in the wrong way is also stressful!
I'm sure some people would be envious of my ability to literally think myself thin

To be specific, I learned I was unaware how stressed I was and would regularly push through tiredness. I also learned that I had no idea how to deal with emotions healthily.

It's all about energy and resources. Are they getting in ok/are you eating the right things for your body? Can your body use them or does it need some help? Where are you using the energy (are you in stress mode from wrong thinking, infection, lack of resources getting in, lack of resources to use the fuel - or rest/healing/growth mode)?
It might be worth checking out the glycine thread too, as my body seems to really need quite a lot of it. It's healing a lot of things and making me stronger. It also stops me feeling fatigued if I eat a lot of meat (at one point I would under eat, because eating enough food to not loose weight would make me feel terrible).

*edit to add*
Eating too much fat (especially late at night) can cause digestive problems and stress the liver too.

 

[Deleted member 9511]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Maybe this is the wrong thread for a Paleo question, but here goes.

I am confused by an apparent contradiction vis a vis human history/evolution as the basis for adopting a paleo diet (i.e. that's how we evolved here on earth as cavemen). The contradiction is this. If humans were transferred to earth from some other world, or at least descended from alien races, how much could we possibly know about how those races evolved?

 

[patty2292]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Maybe this is the wrong thread for a Paleo question, but here goes.

I am confused by an apparent contradiction vis a vis human history/evolution as the basis for adopting a paleo diet (i.e. that's how we evolved here on earth as cavemen). The contradiction is this. If humans were transferred to earth from some other world, or at least descended from alien races, how much could we possibly know about how those races evolved?

Have you read The Wave Series? The C's go into this in some detail on how the actual process took place and in what form. From what i recall, the original species was not 'transferred' here all together, but seeded into the already inhabiting primates that lived here (or something along those lines)?

Even if we was transferred here thousands of years ago, natural adaption and evolution would change us to be capable to survive on this new planet. So we developed and grew to digest proteins and fats.
This also goes into the change from 3D STO to STS. Where we need to consume other life to live when the fall took place. So maybe this is the same as the transferring that you are referring to. Genetic tampering from high forces can change a hell of alot!

 

[lainey]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Maybe this is the wrong thread for a Paleo question, but here goes.

I am confused by an apparent contradiction vis a vis human history/evolution as the basis for adopting a paleo diet (i.e. that's how we evolved here on earth as cavemen). The contradiction is this. If humans were transferred to earth from some other world, or at least descended from alien races, how much could we possibly know about how those races evolved?

Have you read The Wave Series? The C's go into this in some detail on how the actual process took place and in what form. From what i recall, the original species was not 'transferred' here all together, but seeded into the already inhabiting primates that lived here (or something along those lines)?

Even if we was transferred here thousands of years ago, natural adaption and evolution would change us to be capable to survive on this new planet. So we developed and grew to digest proteins and fats.
This also goes into the change from 3D STO to STS. Where we need to consume other life to live when the fall took place. So maybe this is the same as the transferring that you are referring to. Genetic tampering from high forces can change a hell of alot!

I think regardless of how we got here the food sources at that time would have remained the same i.e. no grains. If we evolved we would have evolved to eat meat/fats and if we were engineered it would make sense that whoever seeded us here would have made us able to eat what was available in order for life to flourish and produce more "cattle" IMO.

 

[Eboard10]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Maybe this is the wrong thread for a Paleo question, but here goes.

I am confused by an apparent contradiction vis a vis human history/evolution as the basis for adopting a paleo diet (i.e. that's how we evolved here on earth as cavemen). The contradiction is this. If humans were transferred to earth from some other world, or at least descended from alien races, how much could we possibly know about how those races evolved?

Have you read The Wave Series? The C's go into this in some detail on how the actual process took place and in what form. From what i recall, the original species was not 'transferred' here all together, but seeded into the already inhabiting primates that lived here (or something along those lines)?

Even if we was transferred here thousands of years ago, natural adaption and evolution would change us to be capable to survive on this new planet. So we developed and grew to digest proteins and fats.
This also goes into the change from 3D STO to STS. Where we need to consume other life to live when the fall took place. So maybe this is the same as the transferring that you are referring to. Genetic tampering from high forces can change a hell of alot!

I think regardless of how we got here the food sources at that time would have remained the same i.e. no grains. If we evolved we would have evolved to eat meat/fats and if we were engineered it would make sense that whoever seeded us here would have made us able to eat what was available in order for life to flourish and produce more "cattle" IMO.

Adding to your point lainey, given that both "races" had the same or at least very similar digestive systems, we can infer from it that we evolved following similar diets, i.e. eating proteins and fats. If humans from say Kantek had evolved eating grains and vegetables, that would in theory be reflected in their digestive system being adapted to such foods, which doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Adding to your point lainey, given that both "races" had the same or at least very similar digestive systems, we can infer from it that we evolved following similar diets, i.e. eating proteins and fats. If humans from say Kantek had evolved eating grains and vegetables, that would in theory be reflected in their digestive system being adapted to such foods, which doesn't seem to be the case.

In addition to that, research/experience seems to indicate that the "Kantekkian" types are even MORE meat eaters than other "strains", if you will. For all we know, those people who just can't adapt to a high fat/protein diet, have more of certain "Earth strains" genetics. Because there are obviously hominids that have existed on Earth that did not follow the homo sapiens path of evolution.

 

[Εἰρήνη]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

Adding to your point lainey, given that both "races" had the same or at least very similar digestive systems, we can infer from it that we evolved following similar diets, i.e. eating proteins and fats. If humans from say Kantek had evolved eating grains and vegetables, that would in theory be reflected in their digestive system being adapted to such foods, which doesn't seem to be the case.

In addition to that, research/experience seems to indicate that the "Kantekkian" types are even MORE meat eaters than other "strains", if you will. For all we know, those people who just can't adapt to a high fat/protein diet, have more of certain "Earth strains" genetics. Because there are obviously hominids that have existed on Earth that did not follow the homo sapiens path of evolution.

And based on the cases I was able to observe, the grain-eating types that cannot adapt to high fat animal foods are less intelligent overall. I 've seen people who have advanced degrees in their narrow fields of studies, but absolutely unintelligent when it comes to other areas of knowledge, something that can be developed by simple observation and connecting the dots.

But in this case we also have to take another factor into consideration: due to lack of fat, nutrients and excessive carbs intake, their brains are not working to their full potential.

 

[A Jay]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I 've seen people who have advanced degrees in their narrow fields of studies, but absolutely unintelligent when it comes to other areas of knowledge, something that can be developed by simple observation and connecting the dots.

But in this case we also have to take another factor into consideration: due to lack of fat, nutrients and excessive carbs intake, their brains are not working to their full potential.

Yeah, I would think those situations are more generally the lack of proper nutrition, a steady information diet based on lies, and under-developed observational and critical thinking skills than anything genetic.

 

[Laura]

Re: Ketogenic Diet - Path To Transformation?

I 've seen people who have advanced degrees in their narrow fields of studies, but absolutely unintelligent when it comes to other areas of knowledge, something that can be developed by simple observation and connecting the dots.

But in this case we also have to take another factor into consideration: due to lack of fat, nutrients and excessive carbs intake, their brains are not working to their full potential.

Yeah, I would think those situations are more generally the lack of proper nutrition, a steady information diet based on lies, and under-developed observational and critical thinking skills than anything genetic.

May be something to that. But read Mithen's "Prehistory of the Mind" to get the lowdown on all the brain studies (forget his theory of consciousness, but the rest of the book is excellent) so as to get a handle on other reasons why people may not be able to connect all their brain parts for optimal functionality.

Meanwhile, on that topic, I've been doing something since coming off the antibiotic/autoimmune protocol that seems to be very helpful: mct oil, butter, and glycine in my tea 3 times per day with 2 600mg capsules of NAC. I think most people could benefit from this but do read up on it. There's a thread.