Kundalini
- Thread starter Pierre
- Start date
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
axj said:
No, what you want to hear is support for the decisions you've made and you will not get that here. If you are not interested in the esoteric knowledge that is shared here, please find a new age forum where you can travel more deeply into kundalini illusion.
axj
The Living Force
anart said:
Anart, you are jumping to conclusions. How are my posts "proof" that I'm lost in illusion? Just because I am saying that in my experience I have not encountered what Gurdjieff is talking about in this case?
In this case, all you have are theories (hearsay), which you defend.
As I said, I am familiar with Gurdjieff's work and have directly experienced and therefore verfied most of the things he is talking about.
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
axj said:
Clearly not or you would not be taking the position you are taking. In other words, you do not know that of which you speak. Again, if you are not interested in the esoteric knowledge presented on this forum, find another. If you won't do that willingly, and intend to continue to argue about something that is not debatable then your posting privileges will be removed.
axj said:
You might want to search the forum for "phenomena chasing". I personally have never had a kundalini experience. And I've met very few people who have claimed such. But the few I have met would probably all qualify for the "baked noodles" section of this forum if they were ever to post here. It's similar with most other types of 'psychic' or 'mystical' experience. The person has a "wow" experience and thinks they're the next Jesus or something. At the very least, they see it as evidence of some elevated spiritual self-image, when in reality they haven't done any real work on themselves. Laura has written about this dynamic a lot in her works: New Age scams, corrupted 'spiritual' practices, drug usage, etc. They're all pretty form with no real substance. Without real work, they're pretty meaningless when it comes to personal development. And they're probably not even necessary when following the fourth way.
Gurdjieff's description of the kundabuffer is a lot more universal and encompassing than just the occult description of 'kundalini'. He's basically describing the human condition of living in total illusion. I'd include a lot more than just 'kundalini', as it's generally understood, in that description. The kundabuffer causes people to see reality 'topsy-turvy' and to be conditioned by “sensations of ‘pleasure’ and ‘enjoyment.’” That sounds like a pretty good description of the people I referenced above.
axj
The Living Force
anart said:
Anart, your replies are pretty arrogant. You also jump to conclusions a lot.
You do not even know if I have indeed activated this 'kundalini energy' or not. There are all kinds of energies in the body and outside of it that can be sensed. But all you do is jump to the conclusion that "all energies are kundalini" and therefore even sensing those energies means "falling into illusion."
And why do you assume that I am not interested in the esoteric knowledge that is shared here? You are twisting what I am saying and you are jumping to conclusions.
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
axj said:
Hmmm, apparently, you really aren't interested in continuing to participate on this forum, so your posting ability has been suspended. It's really very simple - we know very well what "kundalini energy" is and what it does and how and why it is promoted in newage and eastern traditions, had you read the forum guidelines, and even read and understood the posts in this thread, you would understand that this forum is engaged in the exact opposite of that. Instead, you posted in a very stubborn way demanding certain proof of something that is not required. It's rather like a heroine addict demanding that only other heroine addicts can comment on how "good or bad" heroine is. So, I hope you find what you're looking for elsewhere. In short, axj, we are not here to support you in your deepening illusion - in fact - we would be remiss to do so.
More than decade back, I read some books on kundalini to understand the symptoms during medication, which many kundalini books calls involuntary kundalini raising. Now I understand those issues are more deep rooted trauma issues. What I learned from it is nothing, I learned thousand times more from the this forum recommended books and forum. You only need to go to a new age shows to understand the circus of the those kundalini raised awakened guru's and their 'baked noodle' tactics/sales. Have you read Gurdjieff 's Beezelbub's stories ?. He talked lot in it.Approaching Infinity said:
Menna
The Living Force
Are kundalini and DID closer to being different from each other or the same? Being that they are both escapes from reality. Although Kundalini seems like either giving into energy (day dreaming) that takes you away from reality or actively trying to seek it and DID is escape from reality because of trama and that energy resonates with you untill Trama is explored healed. I also think Kundalini can be negative if you give into negative/distructive thoughts that cause you to daydream about negative Situations.
Bernhard
Jedi Master
I posted the Kundalini quote from ISOTM yesterday on FB.
Today I saw that a man called Stuart Sovatsky responding to the post.
He commented with the following:
A quick search on the web brought this up:
"Stuart Sovatsky is director of the Kundalini Clinic in California, therapist, Kundalini Yoga teacher and author."
from _http://www.cit-sakti.com/resources/kundalini-support.htm
from _http://home.jps.net/~stuartcs/about09.html
Never heard of him, but thought to bring it up since it seemed relevant to the topic at hand.
Today I saw that a man called Stuart Sovatsky responding to the post.
He commented with the following:
A quick search on the web brought this up:
"Stuart Sovatsky is director of the Kundalini Clinic in California, therapist, Kundalini Yoga teacher and author."
from _http://www.cit-sakti.com/resources/kundalini-support.htm
from _http://home.jps.net/~stuartcs/about09.html
Never heard of him, but thought to bring it up since it seemed relevant to the topic at hand.
This guy looks like a big shot in kundalini sales and he has LOT of investment in it.Spiral Out said:
What proof he has in saying that it is kundalini ?. Yes there is a intelligence in order that creates our body through cellular creation and so on , but how does he know it is kundalini that does it ?. This is simply saying “GOD” does it. Sure, who the heck the GOD is.
If this article ( simple feel good new age word salad in my opinion) is what can be produced with kundalini, is that what one want ?. I am used to interpretation of the same text by different yogic groups so many different ways to fit to their philosophy, always wondering what is the ultimate truth. Kundalini proponents seems to have got it in kundalini. It is like saying , since I heard a voice from no where, so it has to be God.
How many people in this list talked about kundalini ?. Did Gandhi ever talked about this ?. If not, whose imaginings is this ?.
Is Honor a newage version to say "shut up"?. 7000 years is a LONG period of time, There may be thousands of spiritual lineages that came and gone with their own version without any trace. I really doubt His claimings of all the texts talks of kundalini. Too much narrations exist which almost impossible to prove.
Gopi Krishna was considered as the person who revived and popularized kundalini recent times after facing a unexpected experience. It has been a long time since I read his books, as for as i remembered he never seems to claimed (or makes people genius) that kundalini is that beneficial, these people are claiming.He simply said experiment with it and prove using modern technology.
I think that there were also kundalini teachings in Native Americans,European wizards and African Sangoma,
but the kundalini,this word,originated from Yogas of India,
so we should focus on the meaning of kundalini from India.
Tibetan lamas practice Yoga,too.It is the inheritance from Indian Yogi.
They came from India and began to live in Tibet,so there is knowledge available.
In the Six Yogas of Naropa,Kundalini Yoga is the basis.
Tibetans called Kundalini Gtum-mo,which means "stupid fire".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Yogas_of_Naropa
Gtum-mo Yoga originated from the combination of JoyfulDeitiesTantra(Hevajra Tantra) and WrathfulDeitiesEcstasyWheelTantra(Heruka Chakrasamvara Tantra).
Other Yogas,like Illusion Yoga and Dream Yoga come from Guhyasamaja Tantra.
There are many lamas who actually achieved Gtum-mo,such like Milarepa of 14th century.
In Sri Swami Sivananda's book Kundalini Yoga,there is teaching about what Kundalini is.
_http://www.dlshq.org/download/kundalini.htm#_VPID_59
but the kundalini,this word,originated from Yogas of India,
so we should focus on the meaning of kundalini from India.
Tibetan lamas practice Yoga,too.It is the inheritance from Indian Yogi.
They came from India and began to live in Tibet,so there is knowledge available.
In the Six Yogas of Naropa,Kundalini Yoga is the basis.
Tibetans called Kundalini Gtum-mo,which means "stupid fire".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Yogas_of_Naropa
Gtum-mo Yoga originated from the combination of JoyfulDeitiesTantra(Hevajra Tantra) and WrathfulDeitiesEcstasyWheelTantra(Heruka Chakrasamvara Tantra).
Other Yogas,like Illusion Yoga and Dream Yoga come from Guhyasamaja Tantra.
There are many lamas who actually achieved Gtum-mo,such like Milarepa of 14th century.
In Sri Swami Sivananda's book Kundalini Yoga,there is teaching about what Kundalini is.
_http://www.dlshq.org/download/kundalini.htm#_VPID_59
Yad, it is very likely that all or most of the known sources on this are wrong about what 'kundalini' is. Not just wrong, in fact, but leading people down the wrong path.
From the Cassiopaea Glossary:
Tale of the Evil Magician
From the Cassiopaea Glossary:
Tale of the Evil Magician
Yes,maybe the Tibetan teaching and Indian Yoga are also wrong,
but you still should read the content,touch them and explain why it is wrong.
To actually practice is the only way of examination of the truth.
If there is anyone who actually want to learn Kundalini,
he should look for people who have higher consciousness for learning.
Even if such people don't exist,trying is still a good experience.
If all these teachings about Kundalini are wrong,then please tell me what is correct?
but you still should read the content,touch them and explain why it is wrong.
To actually practice is the only way of examination of the truth.
If there is anyone who actually want to learn Kundalini,
he should look for people who have higher consciousness for learning.
Even if such people don't exist,trying is still a good experience.
If all these teachings about Kundalini are wrong,then please tell me what is correct?
Yad said:
It depends on one's Aim. From the point of view of someone who wishes to wake up in Service to Others, it is wrong because it leads deeper into sleep.
Yad said:
But then how would you know if it is a 'good' experience if you have never seen its results?
Yad said:
I can't tell you that because I don't know. What I can tell you is that you should also familiarise yourself with the works of G.I. Gurdjieff if you wish to understand why this forum exists and what purpose it serves.