No more internet

[Hindsight Man]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding bc I'm still reading through all of the transcripts and the posts, but isn't there a big possibility that we may be in 4th density when it all hits the fan? And we may be subject to other forms of communication at that point. We my not be stuck in an empty bareen. 3D Earth! 90% of us are going to be instantly enlightened and made whole. We are communicating in a material form and at the very least, due to quantum entanglement, we are connected. My trap has always been "what if". It's limited the joy in my life. But "what if" it's better when the wave peaks? We have found each other against all odds. The C's found Laura against all odds.

I believe we will experience life in amazing beautiful ways we can't even fathom. The Internet is simply a tool. All the answers lie within us. The universe and all its power are in each of us. We have been and always will be connected. We will all be ok and you are right to take that off your plate.

Saying that 90% of us are going to be instantly enlightened and made whole is a bit overly optimistic a statement,I think.After all,no enlightenment is possible without Work and most people are neither Working on themselves or searching for truth about our world.Just look at the people in your city,how many of them wish to understand the world?How many listen to propaganda without a second thought,all the while thinking that they're clever to be paying such careful attention to the world?Couple that with half the population being organic portals and a staggeringly high number of psychopaths in power as well as in general populace and the situation looks rather grim.I'm not saying it's without hope,but that optimism needs to be tempered by awareness :).

 

[luc]

Saying that 90% of us are going to be instantly enlightened and made whole is a bit overly optimistic a statement,I think.After all,no enlightenment is possible without Work and most people are neither Working on themselves or searching for truth about our world.Just look at the people in your city,how many of them wish to understand the world?How many listen to propaganda without a second thought,all the while thinking that they're clever to be paying such careful attention to the world?Couple that with half the population being organic portals and a staggeringly high number of psychopaths in power as well as in general populace and the situation looks rather grim.I'm not saying it's without hope,but that optimism needs to be tempered by awareness :).

I agree, HindsightMan. On a more optimistic note though, I think it's interesting to watch Western people's reactions to the more and more visible "signs of the times", from huge economic pressure and grim perspectives for themselves and their children to extreme weather. I already notice some "good obyvatel" types asking a lot of questions... True, the PTB set up false paths for almost everyone looking for answers, but here our responsibility comes into play - maybe we can still help some people if they really ask? And the trouble is only beginning - what happens when people just can't deny reality anymore? So yes, the general lack of awareness is stunning, but there's still hope that some people will discover their good, loving part despite all the programming when forced to choose... And needless to say, we can only do the Work ourselves, and not for other people, so that should be our focus I think...

 

[riclapaz]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding bc I'm still reading through all of the transcripts and the posts, but isn't there a big possibility that we may be in 4th density when it all hits the fan?

Hi Jodi, I think that sometimes optimism can play against us, the possibility does exist, when things really go up tone regarding disasters of all kinds, ie, they intensify (even more), crossing realm border, boost to the "the chosen" to 4D, however, there is also the opposite possibility, or even those who are ready for graduation have to go through some tribulations, with the open future, the "preparation"It would have to be on all possible fronts?You can only speculate regarding 4D.

I believe we will experience life in amazing beautiful ways we can't even fathom. The Internet is simply a tool.

Yes, the Internet is a tool, without which, this does not exist, then the concern is normal, that one day no longer have access, so the importance of this thread that opened Hindsight Man, the word is needed again "preparation".

All the answers lie within us. The universe and all its power are in each of us. We have been and always will be connected. We will all be ok and you are right to take that off your plate.

It is possible that the answers are within us, just that there is a flaw in all this, they are practically buried on layers and layers of programming, ego, self-importance, basically, false personality, trauma, physical pain, emotional weight karmic, hyperdimensional beings, etc.

I think that years of work, disciplined and painful, are needed to access the universal power.

 

[redstar]

It is possible that the answers are within us, just that there is a flaw in all this, they are practically buried on layers and layers of programming, ego, self-importance, basically, false personality, trauma, physical pain, emotional weight karmic, hyperdimensional beings, etc.

I think that years of work, disciplined and painful, are needed to access the universal power.

A Zen story:

Working Very Hard

A martial arts student went to his teacher and said earnestly, "I am devoted to studying your martial system. How long will it take me to master it." The teacher's reply was casual, "Ten years." Impatiently, the student answered, "But I want to master it faster than that. I will work very hard. I will practice everyday, ten or more hours a day if I have to. How long will it take then?" The teacher thought for a moment, "20 years."

It is only my opinion... but:

You don't need painful work to gain knowledge. Pain is the result of the misunderstanding of the reality. You can find negative experiences in life, yes, but if correctly perceived they are not painful, they are an opportunity to learn.

Pain comes when you desire but you don't obtain, this is, the STS way.
The desire is a consequence of the lack of knowledge. Specifically, the lack of knowledge about who you are and what you are.
You are the "Prime Creator", so you are God. You are everything that exists and there is not anything different to you. You are not into an universe, you are all the universes.

If you understand this, there is no necessity of desire anything, because you have everything already. Also the ego vanishes because you are all the creatures and entities, their lives and souls are only your parallel lives and souls.

If you understand that you are everything, and you think about the consequences of this assertion, you start to understand that your physical life, and the experiences you get involved, are generated by you. So you have the power to change this too. This lead you to think that the environment you are in is only a reflect of your inner will and your learning process necessities. Your mind is part of this environment too, so are your feelings.

I think you are right when you say "the answers are within us". And I think you are right too when you say "they are practically buried on layers and layers of programming, ego, self-importance, basically, false personality, trauma, physical pain, emotional weight karmic, hyperdimensional beings, etc.". But that, in my opinion is not a "flaw", it is only part of the learning process.

You can be influenced by "external" forces, programming... that's true but, in the end, you have the last word. It is in you the will to obey or not obey these influences. That "predator's mind", as Castaneda call it, can be very powerful, but you only need to use your "true mind" to get rid of it. It can be difficult? yes of course, but it is possible and it becomes easier if you understand you are everything.

These influences could even control your physical body and you could not do anything about it. They could transform or control your environment and kill you. But that is not important. The important thing is that you realize it. The act of realizing something is a capacity of the true mind. The act of believe in something is the work of the predator's mind. The main theme here is if you are deceived or not by the environment you perceive (which is generated by you).

Realize of something is acquire knowledge, believe is to fall in deception.

Other zen story:

Without Fear

During the civil wars in feudal Japan, an invading army would quickly sweep into a town and take control. In one particular village, everyone fled just before the army arrived - everyone except the Zen master. Curious about this old fellow, the general went to the temple to see for himself what kind of man this master was. When he wasn't treated with the deference and submissiveness to which he was accustomed, the general burst into anger. "You fool," he shouted as he reached for his sword, "don't you realize you are standing before a man who could run you through without blinking an eye!" But despite the threat, the master seemed unmoved. "And do you realize," the master replied calmly, "that you are standing before a man who can be run through without blinking an eye?"

The Cassiopaeans say that faith is the most difficult thing to achieve, and I think they are right. In my opinion this is a consequence of the lack of realization about who and what you are: One thing is to say "I'm the Prime Creator" and other thing is realizing this is true.

Only when you realize this you can get rid of all fears, wishful thinking, addictions to pleasuring the self and desire of prolonging the life in the body.

As final note I would like to say that, under my point of view, it is logical to use the acquired knowledge to be prepared for future cataclysmic events and try to survive. But there is no point in trying to force an acceleration in the learning process, that would be like watch a movie in high speed: You would not understand the story told in it. Concentrate on the spirit and your lessons will give you the path you need to progress.

 

[sitting]

Hi Jodi, I think that sometimes optimism can play against us, the possibility does exist, when things really go up tone regarding disasters of all kinds, ie, they intensify (even more), crossing realm border, boost to the "the chosen" to 4D, however, there is also the opposite possibility, or even those who are ready for graduation have to go through some tribulations, with the open future, the "preparation"It would have to be on all possible fronts?You can only speculate regarding 4D.

Perhaps this from goyacobol's most recent transcript summation can help.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A: Had Columbus been outside of Italy and Spain?

Q: (L) Okay, we are going to assume that if it keeps on expanding it will eventually come back to itself...

A: No, no, no wait! We asked a question!

Q: (L) Well, of course Columbus had an idea that there was something but he hadn't been there, no. But he went and checked it out.

A: Did he have just an idea?

Q: (L) Well, pretty much, I guess.

A: Hmmm. That's not the way we remember it. The way we remember it is that he had instinct and imagination and when he married his instinct with imagination, it became reality. And, when it became reality, he had created a reality which he was fully confident would be manifest in the physical third density reality. It wasn't that he was confident. He knew it to be so.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It would seem to suggest that excessive worry, doubt, or fear detracts from the vital force that is intent. If 4th density is unknown, then perhaps prudent imagination is the answer. But it really isn't an unknown because they've given much data on it.

That last paragraph (on Columbus) really deserves a careful read--maybe more than once, I think. It seriously stretches one's belief ... and exposes the true depth of one's faith. I happen to believe there's more than a grain of truth in Jodi's remark. But it does require a delicate balance.

FWIW.

 

[riclapaz]

Hi Jodi, I think that sometimes optimism can play against us, the possibility does exist, when things really go up tone regarding disasters of all kinds, ie, they intensify (even more), crossing realm border, boost to the "the chosen" to 4D, however, there is also the opposite possibility, or even those who are ready for graduation have to go through some tribulations, with the open future, the "preparation"It would have to be on all possible fronts?You can only speculate regarding 4D.

Perhaps this from goyacobol's most recent transcript summation can help.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A: Had Columbus been outside of Italy and Spain?

Q: (L) Okay, we are going to assume that if it keeps on expanding it will eventually come back to itself...

A: No, no, no wait! We asked a question!

Q: (L) Well, of course Columbus had an idea that there was something but he hadn't been there, no. But he went and checked it out.

A: Did he have just an idea?

Q: (L) Well, pretty much, I guess.

A: Hmmm. That's not the way we remember it. The way we remember it is that he had instinct and imagination and when he married his instinct with imagination, it became reality. And, when it became reality, he had created a reality which he was fully confident would be manifest in the physical third density reality. It wasn't that he was confident. He knew it to be so.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It would seem to suggest that excessive worry, doubt, or fear detracts from the vital force that is intent. If 4th density is unknown, then perhaps prudent imagination is the answer. But it really isn't an unknown because they've given much data on it.

That last paragraph (on Columbus) really deserves a careful read--maybe more than once, I think. It seriously stretches one's belief ... and exposes the true depth of one's faith. I happen to believe there's more than a grain of truth in Jodi's remark. But it does require a delicate balance.

FWIW.

I would say it takes more than just balance, perhaps best explains the idea, with this mentioned by Cs:

September 28, 2002
Ark, Laura, Andromeda, BT

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=21619.msg226785#msg226785

Q: [Laura asks for door to be opened as she feels great heat.]

A: Life is religion.

Q: (L) What does that mean?

A: Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God. Those who are asleep are those of little faith in terms of their interaction with the creation. Some people think that the world exists for them to overcome or ignore or shut out. For those individuals, the worlds will cease. They will become exactly what they give to life. They will become merely a dream in the "past." People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the "Future."

 

[sitting]

I would say it takes more than just balance, perhaps best explains the idea, with this mentioned by Cs:

People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the "Future."

Hi riclapaz,

No argument here really. Paying strict attention to objective reality IS part of that balance. The counter balance is faith--along with sincere intent coupled with imagination. Both parts are essential to maintain that balance.

I believe (from my observations and exchanges here) that the vital force that is INTENT is perhaps insufficiently accounted for often. But an unmistakable heads up (from C's) was given not too long ago. And perhaps it's relevant to take heed:

"Intent combined with being and willingness to do good can often produce effects
even when knowledge is absent."

Although I'm not 100% sure, it would seem that when push comes to shove, intent trumps knowledge. That's a staggering (and disturbing) idea for many. But then maybe not so much, because it's quite explicitly discussed in Seth, Buddhism ... and even in Castaneda if you read him carefully. Now the C's have said it.

My interpretation is that it's NOT a denigration of knowledge ... but an ELEVATION of intent. Bringing it to it's true and vital position in the affairs of the universe--including its coming into being. It's really fundamental I think. But I could be wrong on this.

FWIW.

 

[sitting]

It's not a big deal, but if a Mod can fix the quote format in my previous post it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Nienna]

It's not a big deal, but if a Mod can fix the quote format in my previous post it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Done. :)

 

[sitting]

It's not a big deal, but if a Mod can fix the quote format in my previous post it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Done. :)

Thank you.

 

[axj]

It is only my opinion... but:

You don't need painful work to gain knowledge. Pain is the result of the misunderstanding of the reality. You can find negative experiences in life, yes, but if correctly perceived they are not painful, they are an opportunity to learn.

From my experience, there are certain necessary parts of the Work that feel very uncomfortable - such as the process of emotional healing. Some of it may be described as painful, though there is also a sweetness underneath that makes it much more bearable than unnecessary pain.

Pain comes when you desire but you don't obtain, this is, the STS way.

The desire is a consequence of the lack of knowledge. Specifically, the lack of knowledge about who you are and what you are.

There is also a different kind of desire - heartfelt desires that come from your Higher Self. It is actually one of the primary inner guidance systems and following these deep desires always results in fulfillment, growth and an increase in knowledge.

 

[Psalehesost]

It is only my opinion... but:

You don't need painful work to gain knowledge. Pain is the result of the misunderstanding of the reality. You can find negative experiences in life, yes, but if correctly perceived they are not painful, they are an opportunity to learn.

Pain comes when you desire but you don't obtain, this is, the STS way.
The desire is a consequence of the lack of knowledge. Specifically, the lack of knowledge about who you are and what you are.
You are the "Prime Creator", so you are God. You are everything that exists and there is not anything different to you. You are not into an universe, you are all the universes.

If you understand this, there is no necessity of desire anything, because you have everything already. Also the ego vanishes because you are all the creatures and entities, their lives and souls are only your parallel lives and souls.

If you understand that you are everything, and you think about the consequences of this assertion, you start to understand that your physical life, and the experiences you get involved, are generated by you. So you have the power to change this too. This lead you to think that the environment you are in is only a reflect of your inner will and your learning process necessities. Your mind is part of this environment too, so are your feelings.

I think you are right when you say "the answers are within us". And I think you are right too when you say "they are practically buried on layers and layers of programming, ego, self-importance, basically, false personality, trauma, physical pain, emotional weight karmic, hyperdimensional beings, etc.". But that, in my opinion is not a "flaw", it is only part of the learning process.

You can be influenced by "external" forces, programming... that's true but, in the end, you have the last word. It is in you the will to obey or not obey these influences. That "predator's mind", as Castaneda call it, can be very powerful, but you only need to use your "true mind" to get rid of it. It can be difficult? yes of course, but it is possible and it becomes easier if you understand you are everything.

I think this way of thinking is too simplistic, and in itself a trap. There's a big difference between conscious and mechanical suffering.

Dealing with one's programs, coming to see how one actually is and "works", is painful. Facing cognitive dissonance is also painful, but also fully necessary.

It is possible to gain knowledge without suffering, but as long as no suffering is involved, there probably hasn't been any really deep insight of the kind that helps one move past one's programming. And even less, any progress of integrating a real self, which involves inner friction/'heating'/conscious suffering.

Also, the state of the world today - given the way it is - will provoke suffering in anyone who pays attention to reality and whose emotional center is not asleep. (And one of the things that sends the emotional center to sleep is ponerization - normalizing what is pathological, buffering its real significance away. And most things is our world are nowadays drenched in pathology.)

The importance of paying attention to reality, in concrete terms rather than "all is one" (which also inevitably means much disillusionment and significant suffering) was brought up in a C's session:

A: Just work daily at becoming more aware on three levels
1. Body and immediate environment,
2. Wider world affairs,
3. Cosmos and spirit.

Q: (L) Shouldn't "spirit" go with "Body and immediate environment"?

A: No, it is via the first steps that one achieves cosmic consciousness.

Q: (L) I don't understand.

(Chu) You have to work on the body and environment, and then understand the wider world at first. And then you can develop cosmic consciousness and spirit.

(L) Oooh. So in other words, to achieve cosmic consciousness, i.e. true spiritual advancement, you have to expand your field of vision to be very wide?

A: Exactly. Those who suggest that you must look only within live in a singular bubble.

In short, the "Zen" approach - or escaping into peaceful bliss - is just another way to be asleep, and not just a little asleep, but very deeply asleep.

It is true that understanding the deeper reality, including that all is ultimately one, is part of it all. It matters for understanding big questions such as good and evil. It's part of the knowledge which can give us a sense of meaning and an attitude of open exploration, in facing all the horrible stuff that surrounds us, both outside and inside. But once that understanding is there, it changes little in the concrete reality we must deal with.

Something to consider is what drives the thinking, feeling, and motivation during escape into peaceful "oneness". And the answer to that involves the very concrete reality of our neurobiology: basic emotional circuits, and a largely unconscious information processing machine, which automatically follows ingrained tracks unless efforts are made. Combine an animal evolutionary heritage with mental "tricks" for achieving a sense of peace and bliss, and you get Zen, a focus on oneness, etc. In short, it's the lowest in us imagining that it has reached the highest. Or so I think.

 

[obyvatel]

[quote author=Psalehesost]
In short, the "Zen" approach - or escaping into peaceful bliss - is just another way to be asleep, and not just a little asleep, but very deeply asleep.
[/quote]

The traditional Zen way of life was to experience reality just as it is - without adding or subtracting from it. In practice, most Zen monks organized themselves into groups, living and working together on community projects that benefited the village they were part of. They worked on same things as common people did - farming, crafts etc - but they aspired to a different attitude. From what I have read, Zen monks were also politically active at times, protesting against authorities, participating in popular uprisings etc.

Today Zen has become a buzz word. Also any long standing tradition has its inevitable share of distortions and perversions. But overall, the traditional Zen path demanded a lot from its adherents and promoted growth of consciousness rather than an escape from reality. At least that has been my understanding.

 

[obyvatel]

[quote author=Red Star]
It is only my opinion... but:
......
[/quote]

Some mishmash of ideas here.

As axj and Psalehesost pointed out, experience shows pain precedes understanding. Of course there can be pain without any understanding. To say if we had the correct perception then there wouldn't be pain is putting the cart before the horse.

And since you chose to illustrate your opinion with Zen stories, per my understanding, in a traditional Zen setting, these opinions about pain would likely meet with the master's stick or other similar devices.

 

[riclapaz]

Hello sitting, a little patience please do not quite understand what it says:

I would say it takes more than just balance, perhaps best explains the idea, with this mentioned by Cs:

People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the "Future."

Hi riclapaz,

No argument here really. Paying strict attention to objective reality IS part of that balance. The counter balance is faith--along with sincere intent coupled with imagination. Both parts are essential to maintain that balance.

Here the definition of imagination from the glossary Cassiopeia:

http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=395&lsel=I
Imagination vs. Impression
Imagination in modern culture is often seen as a wonderful virtue and bringer of limitless possibility. We see this in phrases like 'only your imagination limits what you can do with' [pick a gadget of your choice].
In 4th Way discourse, the word imagination is seen somewhat differently. Imagination is one of the principal features of man which keep him asleep. Specially negative imagination and identification with it is a detrimental mechanical habit. Negative imagination consists of reviewing by means of automatic habitual association all manner of possible or impossible calamities which might befall one. Knowing about the world's dangers is even necessary but habitually dwelling on them in lurid reveries of horrors is counter-productive. The key distinction here is between mental activity which leads to action and mental activity which alone seeks to generate more similar mental activity.

I believe (from my observations and exchanges here) that the vital force that is INTENT is perhaps insufficiently accounted for often. But an unmistakable heads up (from C's) was given not too long ago. And perhaps it's relevant to take heed:

"Intent combined with being and willingness to do good can often produce effects
even when knowledge is absent."

Although I'm not 100% sure, it would seem that when push comes to shove, intent trumps knowledge. That's a staggering (and disturbing) idea for many. But then maybe not so much, because it's quite explicitly discussed in Seth, Buddhism ... and even in Castaneda if you read him carefully. Now the C's have said it.

My interpretation is that it's NOT a denigration of knowledge ... but an ELEVATION of intent. Bringing it to it's true and vital position in the affairs of the universe--including its coming into being. It's really fundamental I think. But I could be wrong on this.

FWIW.

Well, as I see it, it is that some information that have Cs, or are for Laura and the people who are with her in specific, not to mention another important point, the context.

I think the Cs are talking of the development of being, and acquired knowledge, described by Gurdjíeff ,have to go hand in hand, there are people who have a development, but for some reason have not adqurido the necessary knowledge of many aspects of this reality, and vice versa there are people who have much knowledge of this reality, but lack a development of being, I believe that the importance of the declaration of the Cs is a person with a development of being in conjuntion with an intention and willingness to help others (STO orientation) in some cases can be successful, even without knowledge.

I hope I'm not out of context on this.