Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine

iamthatis said:
Putin's recent speech was very powerful - history, economics and politics, and also upping the ante into discussing the metaphysical. When I managed to catch the last bit if his speech live before going to work, it was incredible to hear him talk in particular about the West's family-destroying and child-mutilating practices in terms of Satanism and the Soul!

The SMO has explicitly transformed into an escalation towards a total battle of good and evil, a kind of holy war. I loved the end of the signing ceremony, where Putin and the four leaders joined hands and the crowd started chanting 'Russiya! Russiya!' The look on his face was absolutely priceless. It must have been so liberating for him as a man to be able to speak freely, given how much he must have to ride his own brake for the reasons of diplomacy and strategic ambiguity.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1575881986014486531

This brings added weight to Patrick Lancaster's recent question:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1576156828425105410

Any deaths in Donetsk are now occurring on Russian territory. Now we'll get a chance to see the response of the Russian General Staff.

I just read that Turkey has rejected the referenda:

tass.com

Turkey says cannot accept decision by Donbass republics, two more regions to join Russia

The Turkish Foreign Ministry said that this decision "constitutes a grave violation of the established principles of international law"
tass.com tass.com

Could be that a little bird told them to follow the Western narrative - or else say goodbye to Turkstream.
Click to expand...
To be honest, I expected that after the signing of the documents, Putin would announce a counter-terrorist operation, send the entire army and all that, because from the point of view of Russia, these are now our territories. It seems that I am stupid in this matter and my expectations are my problems. It remains only to wait what will happen next.

As for Turkey, it is quite obvious that no one recognizes these referendums and their accession to Russia. Even Belarus - an ally of Russia - is simply beyond the real world law.

What Putin is doing is saving the Russians, and this is not written in the UN charter. It is not spelled out in the constitutions of countries. And this recognition will not happen at the present time.

Well, Turkey will never recognize this, just as it did not recognize Crimea, which it considers its own. The only option for them is to become part of Russia and then the Crimea will become Turkish ... as a joke.

It's my opinion.
 
Niall said:
World-changing events are taking place right now in and around the Donbass. In this thread, let's stick to gathering facts and developments about the USA vs Russia proxy war in Ukraine, and what appears to be Putin's 'grand plan' to do away with hegemony.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to another catastrophe of Russian forces near Krasny Liman, for which there were persistent battles throughout the summer, and last night the Russians abandoned the city (as well as several others even earlier, there)? While in Moscow there is another propaganda rally and concert "in support of the residents of Donbass," some of whom are being killed right now because "Russia is with you forever" has abandoned them again.
And it's no longer Kharkov, Kiev, or Balakleya and Izyum. It is already DONBASS. Which has ALREADY become part of Russia. Now they will not be able to justify that they "left unnecessary territories in order to concentrate their efforts on the liberation of Donbass. Once again, the Russian Defense Ministry is simply silent. This is the 4th time, at least, that they have left, abandoning all those who trusted and waited for them, and pretending that "that was the plan and everything is going according to plan. This is the same AFU offensive that everyone knew about and openly discussed again throughout the month. And once again no conclusions were drawn there.

Russian military correspondents report that despite the urgent redeployment of reserves (again, urgent, they simply were not there in advance), at most it was only possible to slightly slow down the advance of the AFU and the situation there is critical. At the same time, Ukraine is also transferring its reserves there and increasing its strike grouping in order to accomplish its task as soon as possible. In other words, the situation will become even more difficult.
The Russian military who are there publish videos where they are extremely angry at their commanders, calling them idiots and sending them curses for this situation. Ordinary soldiers once again bear the brunt of the mistakes and stupidity of the "genius generals".

On the Rybar channel, military reports are also available in other European languages, you can read it for yourself. These are patriotic channels, and they cannot be accused of "working for Ukraine," as I have been accused of doing here.

I really hope that they there know what they are doing and will rectify the situation in the coming hours. Because this time people will not forgive them. The government's ratings have already fallen since September 21, and another defeat will rock the boat even more and play into the hands of the West.

Here is a link to this post, if anyone is interested and to make sure that I am not making this up from my head just because I am "on the payroll of the Ua_IPSO (Center for Psychological Operations)":
Рыбарь
(The following post is also complementary about the situation at that site)

Link at video with soldier:
Анатолий Шарий

Other links as proofs:
Colonelcassad
Резидент
Платон Беседин
Платон Беседин
Анатомия событий
На марше Z

I would like to once again remind the participants of this thread that it is NOT my goal to smear Russia and its actions, I have no goal to put everything in a negative light, etc. I am only pointing out the FACTS that you all wish to collect here. You can't look only at "all that is good" while deliberately avoiding "all that is bad" as if it doesn't exist. You are positioning yourselves as seekers of truth and objectivity, but for some reason some people are adamantly unwilling to acknowledge the obvious (I know why, it's all very simple stuff and lies right on the surface).

This is not an emotional message, and I sincerely hope things level out in a constructive way here.
I apologize for the perhaps slightly harsh words. I wish everyone well and an open mind. We are all trying to participate in networking, after all, and should help each other.
 

Ukraine Eyes Fast-Tracked NATO Membership; US Pushes Back​


"WASHINGTON —
Ukraine’s bid to fast-track its efforts to join NATO, following Russia’s annexation of four more Ukrainian territories, is being met with caution in Brussels and Washington, where top officials are trying to shift the focus to their unwavering support for Kyiv."

"But when asked during a briefing whether the alliance would move quickly on the application, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg demurred."

"Our focus now is on providing immediate support to Ukraine, to help Ukraine defend itself against the Russian brutal invasion," Stoltenberg told reporters."

Article below:

www.voanews.com

Ukraine Eyes Fast-Tracked NATO Membership; US Pushes Back

US, NATO officials emphasize unwavering support for Kyiv following Russian annexation of more Ukrainian territory
www.voanews.com www.voanews.com
 
Kadyrov about the fall of Liman

I have always said: there is nothing better than the truth, however bitter and hurtful, but the truth. This is the only way to move forward. That is why I cannot keep quiet about what happened in Krasny Liman.

The commander of the Central Military District, Colonel General Aleksandr Lapin, was in charge of the defence of this area. The same Lapin who received the Hero of Russia star for the capture of Lisichansk, although de facto he was nowhere near there. Lapin was also given responsibility for the troops of the Western Military District.

The Colonel-General has deployed mobilised fighters from the LPR and other units at all the Liman direction, but has not provided them with the necessary communication, interaction and ammunition supply. A fortnight ago Major-General Akhmat, my dear brother Apty Alaudinov, informed me personally that our fighters might become easy targets. I, in turn, informed Valery Gerasimov, head of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces, of the danger. But the general assured me that he did not doubt Lapin's military talent, and did not believe a retreat was possible in Krasny Liman and its environs.

A week later, Lapin moves his headquarters to Starobelsk, a hundred kilometres away from his subordinates, while he himself sits in Luhansk. How can he manage his units promptly when he is 150km away from them? Due to a lack of basic military logistics, today we have abandoned several settlements and a large area of territory.

It's not that Lapin is a mediocrity that's a shame. It's the fact that he is being covered up by his superiors in the General Staff. If I had my way, I would have demoted Lapin to a private, stripped him of his awards and sent him to the front line to wash away his shame with a machine gun.

Nepotism in the army will not do any good. In the army, commanders must be men of strong character, courageous, principled, who care about their soldiers, who bite their teeth for their soldier, who know that a subordinate must not be left without help and support. There is no place for nepotism in the army, especially in difficult times.
Were we short of Izyum? Even back then I said: fire on the enemy's military concentration in Izyum captured by the Nazis, especially since our artillery had that capability at the time. At once we would finish off the main Satanists and fascists. We have to carry out the SMO in the full sense of the word, not to flirt with it. Use every opportunity and every weapon to defend OUR territory. Donetsk is still being shelled. The inhabitants of the four annexed territories want to be protected.

I don't know what the Defense Ministry reports to the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, but in my personal opinion, we should take more drastic measures, up to declaring martial law on the border territories and using low-yield nuclear weapons. There is no need to take every decision looking back at the Western-American community - they have already said and done a lot against us.
Yesterday a parade in Izyum, today a flag in Liman, and tomorrow what?

t.me

Kadyrov_95

Я всегда говорил: нет ничего лучше озвученной правды, пусть горькой, обидной, но правды. Только так можно двигаться вперед. Поэтому я не могу молчать о том, что произошло в Красном Лимане. Обороной этого участка руководил командующий Центральным военным округом генерал-полковник Александр...
t.me t.me
Click to expand...
 
Lumiere_du_Code said:
Are you referring to another catastrophe of Russian forces near Krasny Liman, for which there were persistent battles throughout the summer, and last night the Russians abandoned the city (as well as several others even earlier, there)? While in Moscow there is another propaganda rally and concert "in support of the residents of Donbass," some of whom are being killed right now because "Russia is with you forever" has abandoned them again.
And it's no longer Kharkov, Kiev, or Balakleya and Izyum. It is already DONBASS. Which has ALREADY become part of Russia. Now they will not be able to justify that they "left unnecessary territories in order to concentrate their efforts on the liberation of Donbass. Once again, the Russian Defense Ministry is simply silent. This is the 4th time, at least, that they have left, abandoning all those who trusted and waited for them, and pretending that "that was the plan and everything is going according to plan. This is the same AFU offensive that everyone knew about and openly discussed again throughout the month. And once again no conclusions were drawn there.

Russian military correspondents report that despite the urgent redeployment of reserves (again, urgent, they simply were not there in advance), at most it was only possible to slightly slow down the advance of the AFU and the situation there is critical. At the same time, Ukraine is also transferring its reserves there and increasing its strike grouping in order to accomplish its task as soon as possible. In other words, the situation will become even more difficult.
The Russian military who are there publish videos where they are extremely angry at their commanders, calling them idiots and sending them curses for this situation. Ordinary soldiers once again bear the brunt of the mistakes and stupidity of the "genius generals".

On the Rybar channel, military reports are also available in other European languages, you can read it for yourself. These are patriotic channels, and they cannot be accused of "working for Ukraine," as I have been accused of doing here.

I really hope that they there know what they are doing and will rectify the situation in the coming hours. Because this time people will not forgive them. The government's ratings have already fallen since September 21, and another defeat will rock the boat even more and play into the hands of the West.

Here is a link to this post, if anyone is interested and to make sure that I am not making this up from my head just because I am "on the payroll of the Ua_IPSO (Center for Psychological Operations)":
Рыбарь
(The following post is also complementary about the situation at that site)

Link at video with soldier:
Анатолий Шарий

Other links as proofs:
Colonelcassad
Резидент
Платон Беседин
Платон Беседин
Анатомия событий
На марше Z

I would like to once again remind the participants of this thread that it is NOT my goal to smear Russia and its actions, I have no goal to put everything in a negative light, etc. I am only pointing out the FACTS that you all wish to collect here. You can't look only at "all that is good" while deliberately avoiding "all that is bad" as if it doesn't exist. You are positioning yourselves as seekers of truth and objectivity, but for some reason some people are adamantly unwilling to acknowledge the obvious (I know why, it's all very simple stuff and lies right on the surface).

This is not an emotional message, and I sincerely hope things level out in a constructive way here.
I apologize for the perhaps slightly harsh words. I wish everyone well and an open mind. We are all trying to participate in networking, after all, and should help each other.
Click to expand...
Mistake, tactical withdrawal, poor planning, negligence, call it what you want... what matters here is Putin and his service to the world, the balance will not be achieved overnight just because Putin is leading the whole thing, besides As intelligent as he is and capable for this role, he is still human to a certain extent and he ignores certain things as well as us along with his subordinate staff that I repeat again, he is not aware of everything nor is he perfect... this will not be an easy path to the light where the glorious Russia will show the world how good it is and everyone will see it, it will take time for sure and there is still much to learn and probably see... if it helps you, that fake seems bad promise, but in part it seems to me the typical promise that is made automatically without much thought and by people who are not in charge or aware of the general plan (and we also do not know how solid and changing it is) ... it's sad, but from the beginning Putin didn't want a war because it's not like in the movies where you can protect everyone, no matter how careful you can try to be because of its nature it means chaos and death without exception.
 
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"The Sea of Azov has officially become an internal sea of Russia, the State Duma said"

"SIMFEROPOL, October 1 – RIA Novosti. The Sea of Azov with the entry of the DPR into Russia, Zaporozhye and Kherson regions has officially become exclusively an internal sea of Russia, said State Duma deputy from the Crimean region Mikhail Sheremet."

"According to him, this will put an end once and for all to the plans of the Kiev authorities to arrange provocations in the Azov region, and NATO — to place its naval base there."

Article below:

ria.ru

Азовское море официально стало внутренним морем России, заявили в Госдуме

Азовское море с вхождением в состав России ДНР, Запорожской и Херсонской областей официально стало исключительно внутренним морем России, заявил депутат Госдумы РИА Новости, 01.10.2022
ria.ru ria.ru
 
Armagelipsis-matíasmaurán said:
Mistake, tactical withdrawal, poor planning, negligence, call it what you want... what matters here is Putin and his service to the world, the balance will not be achieved overnight just because Putin is leading the whole thing, besides As intelligent as he is and capable for this role, he is still human to a certain extent and he ignores certain things as well as us along with his subordinate staff that I repeat again, he is not aware of everything nor is he perfect... this will not be an easy path to the light where the glorious Russia will show the world how good it is and everyone will see it, it will take time for sure and there is still much to learn and probably see... if it helps you, that fake seems bad promise, but in part it seems to me the typical promise that is made automatically without much thought and by people who are not in charge or aware of the general plan (and we also do not know how solid and changing it is) ... it's sad, but from the beginning Putin didn't want a war because it's not like in the movies where you can protect everyone, no matter how careful you can try to be because of its nature it means chaos and death without exception.
Click to expand...

What does Putin have to do with anything?? He's not in charge of the troops. He is not the chief of the general staff. He is not Caesar, who ran his own legions and led them into battle every time.
Read the post right before yours. Ramzan Kadyrov himself reports that he personally reported in advance to the chief of general staff the situation and the risks of encirclement and retreat, but no decisions were made, i.e. they were all aware of the situation and the coming events, but they did nothing at all. I repeat, this is not the first time this has happened. Constantly stepping on the same rake does not teach them anything.
And now again they have abandoned their people there, the very people who only yesterday became an integral part of Russia and voted in the referendum and were already convinced that it was all behind them.
The Russian Ministry of Defense is made up of senior officers who are stuck in the 1980s with their military thinking and planning, providing for the army, etc. It was they who authoritatively decided before the start of a military operation that the troops (especially in war) do not need drones and UAV, thermal imagers and other modern technical equipment. And these stale dinosaurs beliefs have cost their own troops and civilians many times in blood. And even now, they have not made any conclusions or investigations, have not punished the perpetrators, but rather encouraged them.

Do you think that Putin should personally take the place of the strategists and the high command of the general staff and direct the entire operation himself, so that there would be no such mistakes and in the literal sense of crime? They are at war for survival.
And let anybody say now that it was only the goddamn murderous Communists who could have court-martialed such stupid and criminally irresponsible and totally incompetent commanders, and that it was "wrong and bad." In a war for the survival of the whole country and all the people.

Now Russian war correspondents, newsmen and opinion leaders are working out the "right explains" again.
"We had to retreat not to be killed or surrounded". But to do something in advance so that such a situation would not arise at all - no, this is such a nonsense.

And it's a great motivation for the troops. Especially the mobilized ones. And for captivity and refusal to serve a criminal sentence of up to 15 years in prison. While such empty-headed generals get new stars and medals with an increase in salary.

Another Russian channel, according to Kadyrov speech:
t.me

ВЧК-ОГПУ

Источник ВЧК-ОГПУ подтвердил , что командющие, включая Суровикина, уже несколько месяцев не имеют доступа к Путину, несмотря на обратные уверения Пескова. Все коммуникации идут через Герасимова и у источников есть ощущение, что он не доносит до первого лица почти ничего...
t.me t.me

A VChK-OGPU source confirmed that the commanders, including Surovikin, have not had access to Putin for months, despite Peskov's assurances to the contrary. All communications go through Gerasimov, and sources have the feeling that he doesn't communicate much to the first person.
Click to expand...
 
Lumiere_du_Code said:
What does Putin have to do with anything?? He's not in charge of the troops. He is not the chief of the general staff. He is not Caesar, who ran his own legions and led them into battle every time.
Read the post right before yours. Ramzan Kadyrov himself reports that he personally reported in advance to the chief of general staff the situation and the risks of encirclement and retreat, but no decisions were made, i.e. they were all aware of the situation and the coming events, but they did nothing at all. I repeat, this is not the first time this has happened. Constantly stepping on the same rake does not teach them anything.
And now again they have abandoned their people there, the very people who only yesterday became an integral part of Russia and voted in the referendum and were already convinced that it was all behind them.
The Russian Ministry of Defense is made up of senior officers who are stuck in the 1980s with their military thinking and planning, providing for the army, etc. It was they who authoritatively decided before the start of a military operation that the troops (especially in war) do not need drones and UAV, thermal imagers and other modern technical equipment. And these stale dinosaurs beliefs have cost their own troops and civilians many times in blood. And even now, they have not made any conclusions or investigations, have not punished the perpetrators, but rather encouraged them.

Do you think that Putin should personally take the place of the strategists and the high command of the general staff and direct the entire operation himself, so that there would be no such mistakes and in the literal sense of crime? They are at war for survival.
And let anybody say now that it was only the goddamn murderous Communists who could have court-martialed such stupid and criminally irresponsible and totally incompetent commanders, and that it was "wrong and bad." In a war for the survival of the whole country and all the people.

Now Russian war correspondents, newsmen and opinion leaders are working out the "right explains" again.
"We had to retreat not to be killed or surrounded". But to do something in advance so that such a situation would not arise at all - no, this is such a nonsense.

And it's a great motivation for the troops. Especially the mobilized ones. And for captivity and refusal to serve a criminal sentence of up to 15 years in prison. While such empty-headed generals get new stars and medals with an increase in salary.

Another Russian channel, according to Kadyrov speech:
Click to expand...
Yes, it is wrong by the looks of it, but this is not a movie where you send a secret weapon or the death plane squad at the last minute to fix the error, as I said incompetence and not anticipating all the variables are part of the war, however, Russia is not even close to falling to call this a battle for survival in the sense you use it, even though it is in the end... NATO and its "offensive of the Ardennes" despite the incompetence of the commanders and the troops remains a force of war and therefore dangerous, counteracting this will take time and equipment, the new troops are not yet present, many here have said that Russia will take off the gloves and maybe they will do it in part, but maybe they won't do it completely because it's not necessary and it's problematic for civilians, at least I don't see it necessary to take off the gloves even if they want to hasten the end of the war taking into account the huge russian advances as anniq Almost the entire Ukrainian team was used and now the army barely survives thanks to the help of other countries, an offensive is not synonymous with the vitality of the army and on the contrary it can leave it in an even worse situation.
Do you think that Putin should personally take the place of the strategists and the high command of the general staff and direct the entire operation himself, so that there would be no such mistakes and in the literal sense of crime?
Click to expand...
Putin has to do many things and I don't know how familiar and efficient he would be if he had to perform the tasks you mention.
 
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I just heard Alexander Mercouris on The Duran podcast saying that Krasny Lyman is a rather small town that was largely abandoned, and how he can't understand the Ukrainians' obsession with taking that place...since it's of little significance.

I've been reading the comments on this thread about how Putin/Russia made this or that mistake, or amazement on why they/Putin waited 8 years to start the SMO to help the Donbass/Lugansk, or how suprising it is that Putin has been friendly to Erdogan etc.

I can't say I have any real expertise in these matters but my layman's take is that what Putin/Russia has started is a massive, very complicated, very dangerous, and very bold operation that few would have dared to even contemplate of starting. The logistics and multiple effects of starting this is probably off the scales – and when something is that complex and multifaceted, mistakes will unavoidably happen.

Which makes me believe that there has been a lot of preparations, planning and strategizing from the Russian side for ca 20 years or more. Everything needed to be 'in place' before this thing could be started, not least the preparations for being able to take the hit of economic sanctions. Just my guess, but I think that in 2014 the Russian economy wouldn't have survived the sanctions...so that could be a reason why they needed to wait. Plus, the army and military equipment wasn't ready either, or so I think.

All I'm saying that it's easy for us 'watching the show' from the side to find all kinds of faults and miscalculations in Putin's/Russias meneuvering (I think we all agree e.g. that Russia's PR skills are quite poor). Just like it's easy to criticize your boss at work behind his/her back – but if you would one day be in his/her shoes, being the boss, you'd probably notice that the position is pretty darn demanding!

What really matters, especially to Russia, is which side will win in the end. If it helps to make 'dirty deals' with snakes like Erdogan, why not? That's a little price to pay when the stakes are so high, or so I think.
 
aragorn said:
I just heard Alexander Mercouris on The Duran podcast saying that Krasny Lyman is a rather small town that was largely abandoned, and how he can't understand the Ukrainians' obsession with taking that place...since it's of little significance.

I've been reading the comments on this thread about how Putin/Russia made this or that mistake, or amazement on why they/Putin waited 8 years to start the SMO to help the Donbass/Lugansk, or how suprising it is that Putin has been friendly to Erdogan etc.

I can't say I have any real expertise in these matters but my layman's take is that what Putin/Russia has started is a massive, very complicated, very dangerous, and very bold operation that few would have dared to even contemplate of starting. The logistics and multiple effects of starting this is probably off the scales – and when something is that complex and multifaceted, mistakes will unavoidably happen.

Which makes me believe that there has been a lot of preparations, planning and strategizing from the Russian side for ca 20 years or more. Everything needed to be 'in place' before this thing could be started, not least the preparations for being able to take the hit of economic sanctions. Just my guess, but I think that in 2014 the Russian economy wouldn't have survived the sanctions...so that could be a reason why they needed to wait. Plus, the army and military equipment wasn't ready either, or so I think.

All I'm saying that it's easy for us 'watching the show' from the side to find all kinds of faults and miscalculations in Putin's/Russias meneuvering (I think we all agree e.g. that Russia's PR skills are quite poor). Just like it's easy to criticize your boss at work behind his/her back – but if you would one day be in his/her shoes, being the boss, you'd probably notice that the position is pretty darn demanding!

What really matters, especially to Russia, is which side will win in the end. If it helps to make 'dirty deals' with snakes like Erdogan, why not? That's a little price to pay when the stakes are so high, or so I think.
Click to expand...
Putin has already said that Russia was not economically ready to withstand such large sanctions in 2014 and that was the reason for not carrying out a major operation (I can't find the speech in which he said it) and regarding the issue of Erdogan's attitude It seems to me that it happens more as a mere strategy of neutrality, and thereby achieve benefits for Turkey without falling into difficult and dangerous situations where there is no
it can come back... at this moment Turkey, despite everything, is being of benefit to Russia and a possible stone in the shoe for NATO in the future if it is not already being so without being isolated or intimidated by the West, well played .
 
Armagelipsis-matíasmaurán said:
Mistake, tactical withdrawal, poor planning, negligence, call it what you want...
Click to expand...

I think it should be clear by now that Phase 2 consisted of depleting the enemy of manpower, material and ammunition without the least possible risk. Withdrawing is part of that. It is not so much about capturing territory, the goal was to destroy military targets. The Russians are in no hurry, either.

Also, take note how most of the videos posted on Telegram are missile and artillery strikes hitting Ukrainian forces on open terrain. The Russians positioned themselves really well.

Phase 3 and the mobilization will give the Russians strategic depth. The professional army can go on the offensive and the reservists will keep the order and handle logistics.

That means RU troops will now focus on taking all of Ukraine. The enemy has lost enough manpower, equipment and ammunition. That was the goal of Phase 2. Now it is time to push forward.
 
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