Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

angelburst29 said:

I found this to be an interesting article, although I don't know if it is adding anything new to the information already gathered here?

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Interesting indeed. Thanks for finding and sharing.

Although no really new info is presented, the angle of approach is different. Especially point #4, the emphasis on the difference in damage between the two engines and the consequences of that for the launching position of the missile and subsequently the angle of impact, is crystal clear and has not been presented so concise thus far AFAIK.

Just archiving, the John Helmer piece has made it to SOTT:

https://www.sott.net/article/330122-4-MH17-Questions-the-answers-to-which-prove-Dutch-police-Kiev-SS-and-US-govt-are-faking-evidence-of-shootdown

Archiving again, via RT an opinion piece (Op-Edge) by Neil Clark (no new info):

https://www.sott.net/article/330208-MH17-truth-enforcers-throwing-Wests-version-of-events-onto-deceived-public

Note: Neil Clark is a journalist, writer, broadcaster and blogger. He has written for many newspapers and magazines in the UK and other countries including The Guardian, Morning Star, Daily and Sunday Express, Mail on Sunday, Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph, New Statesman, The Spectator, The Week, and The American Conservative. He is a regular pundit on RT and has also appeared on BBC TV and radio, Sky News, Press TV and the Voice of Russia.

This report seems to indicate - a Legal extension on the 2014 agreement, for an MH17 investigation?

Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko proposed the parliament, the Verkhovna Rada, extending the work of the mission of inquiry into the Malaysian Flight MH17 airliner crash in Donbas until August 1, 2017, the parliament's website showed.

Ukraine President Offers Parliament to Extend Work of Mission on MH17 Crash
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201610111046228946-mh17-ukraine-investigation/

A draft law on the ratification of the agreement between Ukraine and the Netherlands to extend the existing 2014 agreement was registered on Rada's website. As of Tuesday, the full text of the document is not yet available.

The legal stages of the draft document note that the document has already been sent to the Ukrainian parliament. In July 2014, the agreement between Ukraine and the Kingdom of the Netherlands on international mission to protect investigations was signed, along with an agreement between Ukraine and Australia on sending personnel to Ukraine in connection with the MH17 crash.

The two documents envisage practical engagement of police, military and non-military experts from the Netherlands and Australia, other states whose citizens were aboard the MH17 plane until the reasons of the crash are investigated.

angelburst29 said:

This report seems to indicate - a Legal extension on the 2014 agreement, for an MH17 investigation?

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Yes, that's what I understand as well from this report. Searched for confirmation around my neck of the woods but couldn't find any (yet). So thanks for finding and sharing this. It seems plausible, as the latest press conference of the JIT officially was an interim overview only with still more to come later on.

Meanwhile, an announcement was signaled on twitter about the upcoming 18th EU-Ukraine Summit to be held on November 24. One of the points of discussion there will be the thorny issue of the ratification of the Ukraine-EU Association Agreement despite the negative vote in the Dutch referendum lately (April 6).

Dutch government still hasn't taken any formal and official stance on that matter after 182 days -and counting- but should deny their signature to the Agreement given the referendum outcome. More here:

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/10/opposition-tight-lipped-on-talks-to-end-ukraine-referendum-impasse/
http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/2016/10/eu_en_oekraine_gaan_associatie.html (in Dutch)

Source: http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/10/19/mh17-investigators-still-waiting-russian-radar-images/

MH17 investigators still waiting for Russian radar images

Posted on Oct 19, 2016 by Janene Pieters

Despite promising to do so, Russia still has not handed over radar images of the disaster with flight MH17, the Ministry of Security and Justice announced on Tuesday. The Russian Foreign Ministry promised the Dutch ambassador on October 3rd that the radar images will be transferred to the Joint Investigation Team, the Volkskrant reports (in Dutch).

The Joint Investigation Team (JIT) is handling the criminal investigation into the downing of flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine on July 17th, 2014.

The preliminary results of the JIT’s investigation puts Russia in a difficult position. The JIT concluded that MH17 was shot down from a field in the Ukraine that was under the control of pro-Russian separatists. The team also traced the BUK missile system used traveling from Russia to the field in question and then back to Russia again after the shooting. At the presentation of these results, the investigators stated that they have all the radar images they need for the investigation. As far as they are concerned, not getting other radar footage will not hamper them.

But after the results were presented, Russia accused the JIT of not using all the available information, stating that the investigation is based mostly on “speculation”. Immediately after the presentation, a spokesperson for Vladimir Putin called for a “transparent complete” investigation.

Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov called it regrettable that the primary radar data from Russia was not presented. “No conclusions can be drawn without taking the published information from our army.” Shortly before the JIT presentation, the Russian Ministry presented radar data to journalists in Moscow which they claim show no sign of a missile in pro-Russian separatist territory.

While meeting with the Dutch ambassador, the Russian Ministry promised to hand over these radar images so that the JIT can assess them. So far this has not happened, the Dutch Ministry of Security and Justice said. Russia also did not explain why the radar images were unavailable for two years or from where they were recorded.

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Archiving the news reports about the solitary shadowy movements behind the EU scenes of Dutch PM Mark Rutte in his quest to find a 'solution' for the Dutch NO to the association treaty with Ukraine:

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/10/dutch-pm-pessimistic-about-solving-ukraine-vote-conundrum/
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/10/dutch-in-difficult-position-on-ukraine-treaty-reject-mh17-link/

I have come across - an odd report on Doni News published October 11, 2016 - that states, "a Kiev-Amman flight deviated from the route and was in the sky above Syria more than it was supposed to" which mirrors what MH17 did over Ukraine. I'm not sure, how to verify this Kiev-Amman flight, for vital information is lacking - like the exact day that this event happened. A tweet in the article identifies the plane as Bravo Airways Boeing 737-505 UR - CNF? Not sure what to make of the report?

Operation “Boeing №2″ - The Ukrainian passengers are to be ready
https://dninews.com/article/operation-%E2%80%9Cboeing-%E2%84%962%E2%80%B3-ukrainian-passengers-are-be-ready

The information that Kiev-Amman flight deviated from the route and was in the sky above Syria more than it was supposed is disturbing...

Reclamation of a lost status-quo by collective West in general and by the US in particular is possible only in case of Assad resignation. But the support provided by Russia to the leadership of Syria and the governmental troops reduce a coalition chances to minimum. Neither sanctions nor threats helped in making Putin to go back on his words and actions.

But also no one is ready to start waging a war against impudent Russia. The real hostilities about which Ukraine is dreaming about are impossible as a matter of principle. Poland and Baltic countries can prove this fact as their military bases in case of the armed conflict unleashing would come under the Russian retaliation. So the war in its ordinary understanding is canceled.

The only chance to turn a tide in one`s favor is to try to present Putin as a war criminal. The quickest and effective way to make this favorite Ukrainian fairy tale real is to shoot down a civil plane in the area of operations of the Russian man-portable air defense systems located in Syria. Despite the situation the sky above this country is not closed for civil planes. Yes, the routes for planes are not located in the hostilities zone but one phrase of flight operations officer is enough for changing the situation.

Taking into account a situation nowadays nothing should be discounted. That is why the information about Kiev-Amman flight that deviated the route and was present in the skies above Syria more than planned time is rather curious.

I would like to stress that the information about the dangerous deviation from the route was posted in Twitter by Julian Ropcke, the political observer of German magazine Bild famous for the blatant Russophobia. As for the personality of this journalist, more than once he has blamed Russia for casualties among the civilians in Syria and in Donbass.

Appearance of such kind of a post on his page can hardly be called an accident. I fully assume that this is one of the stages of preparing another large-scale provocation. State department likes to obtain the information from the social media. And if suddenly our American friends really decide to shoot down one more civil plane (no matter with whose help) they would have an evidence.

It means that there is a good chance that operation “Boeing 2” is planned but instead of the Ukrainians the dirty work would be done by the fighters from “moderate Syrian opposition”. Probably this is not the only way to “entrap” Russia using already tested scenario. However at the present moment the “Plan B” peculiarities are still not valid.

I don't believe in coincidence. At the present moment every coincidence should be treated as the thoroughly planned pattern.

The West too often reminds Putin of a fate of Gaddafi, Hussein and Milosevic. But unlike the leaders of these countries accused in the war crimes, Putin and Russia today are out of reach. And they would unlikely succeed in pulling off the plan of “liberation” intervention.

It means that should be a formal reason. MH17 mistakes that prevented getting the desired unambiguous result were taken into account. Now they will act more thoroughly.

The fact that the Ukrainian flight will be used more likely presents the real cynicism of the situation. As lots of funds and forces were put in the quadrilateral Russia-West-Syria-Ukraine so they would squeeze it in full.
Imagine the titles: “Russian S-400 shot down the Ukrainian plane in the skies over Syria."

Somebody in Pentagon is ready to sell the soul to Devil...

P.S.

1.Ukraine is morally ready to sacrifice hundreds of lives of its citizens in the name of a provocation that can provide a desired “victory” over Russia.

2. I draw the attention that nobody was entering this zone until Russian statements on denial to deal with aims and affiliation of a flying objects from now on. As if there was given a command...

3. If this precedent with changing the route has really taken place, it means that we should have doubts every time some object is detected in sight of S-300/S-400: “Was it the Ukrainian plane that decided to organize an extreme tour for its passengers?” That leads to the loss of a precious time.

4.Enemy drones and aircraft helicopters flying very closely get the perfect cover.

5. Its senseless to think about the bonus which the West would get in case of a shot down civil plane....

According to Information Agency NewsFront:

http://news-front.info/2016/10/10/operaciya-boing-2-ukrainskim-passazhir...

http://news-front.info/2016/10/10/operaciya-boing-2-ukrainskim-passazhiram-prigotovitsya/?_utl_t=fb

angelburst29 said:

I have come across - an odd report on Doni News published October 11, 2016 - that states, "a Kiev-Amman flight deviated from the route and was in the sky above Syria more than it was supposed to" which mirrors what MH17 did over Ukraine. I'm not sure, how to verify this Kiev-Amman flight, for vital information is lacking - like the exact day that this event happened. A tweet in the article identifies the plane as Bravo Airways Boeing 737-505 UR - CNF? Not sure what to make of the report?

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There's something strange about this event IMO.

First off, I'm pretty sure I already had read a shortened version of this news report earlier and from another source but no matter how I tried to search for it (on the forum and on SOTT) I couldn't locate it again.

Secondly, a google search for the substance of the report gave me only one single mention of it with a date of October 8:

Ukrainian “Boeing” has made dangerous maneuvers in the skies over ...
true-news.info/ukrainian-boeing-has-made-dangerous-maneuvers-...
8 okt. 2016 - The crew of "Boeing-737" the Ukrainian Charter airline Bravo Airways ... and to fly into unsafe for passenger travel zone in the skies over Syria.

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but the website where I went to to read their version of this gave me:

404 Error! Page not found
the Page you are looking for does not exist. You can try a search, or browse the site to find the page you are looking for.

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You can see for yourself here: _http://true-news.info/ukrainian-boeing-has-made-dangerous-maneuvers-in-the-skies-over-syria-in-the-area-of-military-flights/

Thirdly, according to wikipedia Bravo Airways is indeed a charter company which owns only five aircraft in total, two of them being Boeing 737-500.

Taken all this together, I suspect there will be slim to no chances at all to ever corroborate this news more thoroughly -- but one never knows...

Thanks for sharing, anyway. ;)

Source: http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/10/russia-hands-over-missing-radar-images-to-mh17-investigators/

Russia hands over ‘missing radar images’ to MH17 investigators

October 26, 2016

Russia on Wednesday handed over files about the MH17 plane disaster to Dutch investigators, justice minister Ard van der Steur told MPs.

‘A package of information was handed over to the Dutch authorities by the Russian public prosecution department at 3pm Dutch time,’ Van der Steur said.

According to broadcaster NOS (in Dutch), Russia claims it has passed on missing radar images. Van der Steur said that the Dutch public prosecutor would decide if the material can be used for the criminal investigation and if it includes the promised radar information.

Last month, the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) published its initial report which said MH17 was brought down by a BUK missile that came from the Russian Federation and returned there afterwards.

Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17) from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was shot down on July 17 2014, killing all 298 people aboard, two-thirds of them Dutch.

Russia has denied any involvement and says its own radar images show the plane was not shot down from Ukrainian territory controlled by pro-Moscow rebels.

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Similar: http://nltimes.nl/2016/10/27/russia-hands-mh17-information

Related: http://nltimes.nl/2016/10/26/parliament-debate-mh17-investigation-today

Palinurus said:

angelburst29 said:

I have come across - an odd report on Doni News published October 11, 2016 - that states, "a Kiev-Amman flight deviated from the route and was in the sky above Syria more than it was supposed to" which mirrors what MH17 did over Ukraine. I'm not sure, how to verify this Kiev-Amman flight, for vital information is lacking - like the exact day that this event happened. A tweet in the article identifies the plane as Bravo Airways Boeing 737-505 UR - CNF? Not sure what to make of the report?

Click to expand...

There's something strange about this event IMO.

First off, I'm pretty sure I already had read a shortened version of this news report earlier and from another source but no matter how I tried to search for it (on the forum and on SOTT) I couldn't locate it again.

Secondly, a google search for the substance of the report gave me only one single mention of it with a date of October 8:

Ukrainian “Boeing” has made dangerous maneuvers in the skies over ...
true-news.info/ukrainian-boeing-has-made-dangerous-maneuvers-...
8 okt. 2016 - The crew of "Boeing-737" the Ukrainian Charter airline Bravo Airways ... and to fly into unsafe for passenger travel zone in the skies over Syria.

Click to expand...

but the website where I went to to read their version of this gave me: [...]

Click to expand...

Thanks for checking for any other additional information, Palinurus. From what I understand, October 8th is when it happened and Domi News didn't report it until the 11th. In the report I had Posted, at the end they had two links - one which has a copy of the Twitter by Julian Ropcke, the political observer of German magazine Bild (famous for the blatant Russophobia) as was stated in the article. It's just one man's claims and so far - nothing else backs it up?

http://news-front.info/2016/10/10/operaciya-boing-2-ukrainskim-passazhiram-prigotovitsya/?_utl_t=fb

Russia has handed over to the Netherlands new data on the July 17, 2014, crash of the Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 in Ukraine, but it looks like the Dutch side has no interest in any additional information about the tragic incident.

The Dutch Show Little Interest in New Russian Data on MH17 Disaster
https://sputniknews.com/russia/201610281046830964-mh17-data-reaction/

In an interview with Sputnik, Eduard Popov, a senior researcher at the Institute of Russian Diasporas in Moscow, said that, judging from the initial response, the Dutch authorities have no interest whatsoever in any information provided by the Russian side.

“This is a clear case of an anti-Russian bias on the part of the Dutch. Which is all the more surprising because it is in their best interest to ask Russia to provide all possible information [about the crash], like satellite photos, or seek assistance from Russian specialists. They never asked for any help from us and all this time they have been dragging their feet on examining our information,” Popov said. He added that even though the West had already “designated” the culprits, it didn’t mean that Russia should stop proving its innocence. “We must keep doing this no matter what. This situation reminds me of the August 2008 events in South Ossetia when the US and Europe outright rejected our point of view only to tacitly accept it afterwards. I think this is exactly what is going to happen in the case of the Malaysian Boeing and the West will grudgingly admit that we were right.”

Eduard Popov said that Russia has enough information to prove that it was in no way involved in the downing of the Malaysian airliner and enough proof of the Ukrainian military’s responsibility of that tragedy.

“Apart from the JIT, there are many international aviation organizations out there which we can and should bring on board to prove our case,” Eduard Popov said.

The transferred information contains radar data related to the crash.

Ard van der Steur said, according to Dutch television channel NOS, that the international investigation commission conducting the inquiry into the disaster, would evaluate the data and decide whether it could be used in the ongoing probe.

Russian concern Almaz-Antey earlier said that it had primary radar data about the air situation in the area of the crash of Flight MH17. The Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team (JIT) tasked with probing the crash announced in September that the Malaysian airliner was allegedly downed by a Buk missile system, which had been brought in from Russia and consequently returned there.

The Russian Foreign Ministry cast doubt on the conclusions of the investigators because it was based solely on information provided by the Ukrainian side. Earlier experiments conducted by Almaz-Antey proved that the missile that shot down the Malaysian Boeing was fired from the territory controlled by the Ukrainian army.

Archiving more shenanigans around the Dutch referendum NO vote against the Ukraine-EU association treaty:

http://nltimes.nl/2016/10/31/dutch-govt-needs-time-deal-ukraine-referendum
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/10/97097-2/ (Dutch may ratify Ukraine treaty; separate declaration offers way out of impasse)

Archiving the follow-up of the above:

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/11/dutch-prime-minister-wins-more-time-to-negotiate-ukraine-treaty-deal/

An Open Letter to the President-Elect of the U.S. was just published by the Independent journalists & experts on MH17, Spokesman for media – Mr. Billy Six - requesting a new investigation.

“Doubts” Expressed by Trump Concerning The Downing of MH17: Open Letter to the President-Elect of the U.S.

Issue: Death of 298 people in Malaysian civilian Boeing MH-17; downed by unknown perpetrators on 17th July 2014

http://www.globalresearch.ca/doubts-expressed-by-trump-concerning-the-downing-of-mh17-open-letter-to-the-president-elect-of-the-u-s/5557393

Friday November 18, 2016

Your election has raised hopes that easing of tensions, between U.S. and Russia, and peacemaking in Europe in general is achievable. Settlement of the ongoing conflict in Eastern Ukraine and lifting the sanctions against Russia which is vital for the world community has a realistic chance now. With this in mind, there is also hope for a higher quality investigation into the disputed downing of MH17, as you expressed your doubts in an October 2015 interview, regarding the proof of Russian guilt:

“They say it wasn’t them. It may have been their weapon, but they didn’t use it, they didn’t fire it, they even said the other side fired it to blame them. I mean to be honest with you, you’ll probably never know for sure.“ (MSNBC)

Indeed, we agree with you, we will never be sure, with the kind of investigation we have seen over the past two years. The official investigation of the “Dutch Safety Board“ (DSB) and the “Joint Investigation Team“(JIT) was neither independent nor convincing. This kind of investigation forms a huge burden particularly to the families who lost their loved ones in the downing of MH17. They need to know the truth.

WE ARE ASKING YOU, TO PLEASE PUSH FOR A NEW INVESTIGATION. This could happen within an international framework like the U.N. comprising the following aspects:

(1) A team of international, independent scientists and would exclude veto power for any government. This exclusion of veto is especially important, due to the overwhelming role of one of the involved parties, Ukraine. The main source of information to the DSB and JIT used for their official investigations was SBU, the Ukrainian secret service.

(2) Keeping all scenarios on the table.

(3) Declassifying and releasing “available satellite images” claimed by Secretary of State, John Kerry, on 20th of July 2014; or (if not) disclaiming their existence.

(4) Conducting forensic examination of impact holes (for metal residues) in the MH17 wreckage and reproducing pattern of damage by shelling tests (as usually done in crime cases). Completing key information fields, such as body forensics, voice recorder, radar data etc.

(5) Prior construction of, a clear path to an international, objective trial in the U.N. framework with judges from countries which are not connected with the crash.

FURTHERMORE, WE ARE ASKING YOU TO PLEASE INITIATE PEACE TALKS WITH ALL PARTIES CONCERNED (including but not limited to Russia, Ukraine, and the EU) aiming at settling the dispute and establishing a reconstruction plan for Eastern Ukraine including the compensation of the MH17 families.

Thank you so much in advance, for your attention to this matter.

- Independent journalists & experts on MH17 -

* Spokesman for media – Mr. Billy Six

e-mail Billy@six-newhagen.de

facebook BILLY SIX

tel. 0049 152 269 27 443

MARK BARTALMAI, journalist & Ukraine documentaries producer, GERMANY

BERND BIEDERMANN, missile defense colonel ret., military attaché ret. & book author, GERMANY

CHRISTOPHER BLACK, international lawyer on human rights / war crimes, CANADA

NORBERT FLEISCHER, investigative journalist, GERMANY

PROF. DR. ELMAR GIEMULLA, lawyer of German MH17 victims, GERMANY

DR. HERMANN HAGENA, airforce general ret. & author of MH17 military study, GERMANY

PROF. DSC. OTTO-FRIEDRICH HAGENA, physicist, GERMANY

PETER HAISENKO, journalist, publisher & former “Lufthansa” pilot, GERMANY

FRANK HÖFER, journalist & film producer, GERMANY

DIETER KLEEMANN, airforce colonel / trainer ret. & book author, GERMANY

DR. JAMES O´NEILL, barrister on human rights & geopolitical analyst, AUSTRALIA

JOOST NIEMÖLLER, journalist & MH17 book author, NETHERLANDS

GRAHAM PHILLIPS, investigative journalist, UNITED KINGDOM

HECTOR REBAN, political analyst & blogger on MH17, NETHERLANDS

NORBERT K. REISBERG, Lt.-Col. ret., airforce pilot ret., Dipl. rer. mil., GERMANY

BILLY SIX, investigative journalist & book author, GERMANY

MAX VAN DER WERFF, blogger & private MH17 investigator, NETHERLANDS

PROF. KAREL VAN WOLFEREN, journalist, political analyst & book author, NETHERLANDS