Author Topic: Aquatic Ape Hypothesis  (Read 14260 times)

Offline monksgirl

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Re: Aquatic Ape Hypothesis
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2011, 10:10:57 PM »
This thread reminded me of a special on Nova, Nat Geo, Discover or similar, from several years ago, on this same theory of early man spending a great time living by the water, and this quote from one of LKJ's references "...    * The requirement of the human brain for certain nutrients including iodine[20] and some essential fatty acids[21] which are most easily found and absorbed in seafood..." This inclusion of marine fatty foods was specifically cited in the show as the probable causation for the human brain making sudden exponential leaps in capability, and the rise of modern man.

Offline Laura

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Re: Aquatic Ape Hypothesis
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2011, 10:58:21 PM »
Thanks very much!  A great read!
He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Agamemnon, Aeschylus

Offline bngenoh

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Re: Aquatic Ape Hypothesis
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2011, 02:06:47 AM »
Thanks very much!  A great read!
:D You are most welcome mama. :D :D
For to know our past we may conjecture about our future. and to know our future is to be able to divine our purpose in a cosmic sense. And having done that, our priorities may be ordered accordingly so that we will no longer groan under the weight of feeling cast adrift in an uncaring & hostile universe - orphans of the cosmos - playthings of the gods. -- Laura Knight-Jadczyk The Noah Syndrome

Offline bngenoh

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Re: Aquatic Ape Hypothesis
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2012, 09:05:05 PM »
It seems AAH goes back way further than i had thought of before, stubled upon this while doing research on the legend behind mermaids.
Quote
The first known mermaid stories appeared in Assyria, ca. 1000 BC. The goddess Atargatis, mother of Assyrian queen Semiramis, loved a mortal shepherd and unintentionally killed him. Ashamed, she jumped into a lake to take the form of a fish, but the waters would not conceal her divine beauty. Thereafter, she took the form of a mermaid-human above the waist, fish below—though the earliest representations of Atargatis showed her as a fish with a human head and arm, similar to the Babylonian Ea. The Greeks recognized Atargatis under the name Derketo. Prior to 546 BC, the Milesian philosopher Anaximander proposed that mankind had sprung from an aquatic species of animal. He thought that humans, with their extended infancy, could not have survived otherwise.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mermaid

More about Anaximanders speculation on origins of life:
Quote
Anaximander speculated about the beginnings and origin of animal life. Taking into account the existence of fossils, he claimed that animals sprang out of the sea long ago. The first animals were born trapped in a spiny bark, but as they got older, the bark would dry up and break.[38] As the early humidity evaporated, dry land emerged and, in time, humankind had to adapt.

[...]

He thought that, considering humans' extended infancy, we could not have survived in the primeval world in the same manner we do presently. Even though he had no theory of natural selection, some people consider him as evolution's most ancient proponent. The theory of an aquatic descent of man was re-conceived centuries later as the aquatic ape hypothesis. These pre-Darwinian concepts may seem strange, considering modern knowledge and scientific methods, because they present complete explanations of the universe while using bold and hard-to-demonstrate hypotheses.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaximander

Just more resources for anyone who is so inclined to research AAH & its history, heck it makes it a whole lot easier if anyone wants to write a paper on AAH & its history.
For to know our past we may conjecture about our future. and to know our future is to be able to divine our purpose in a cosmic sense. And having done that, our priorities may be ordered accordingly so that we will no longer groan under the weight of feeling cast adrift in an uncaring & hostile universe - orphans of the cosmos - playthings of the gods. -- Laura Knight-Jadczyk The Noah Syndrome

Offline Laura

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Re: Aquatic Ape Hypothesis
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2012, 09:38:24 PM »
Very interesting find.  Sometimes the remarks of the "ancients" were remarkably prescient.
He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Agamemnon, Aeschylus

Offline bngenoh

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Re: Aquatic Ape Hypothesis
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2012, 03:16:50 PM »
Very interesting find.  Sometimes the remarks of the "ancients" were remarkably prescient.
Yep they were, gotta love those long haired, toga wearing, dudes & dudettes of old. :D
For to know our past we may conjecture about our future. and to know our future is to be able to divine our purpose in a cosmic sense. And having done that, our priorities may be ordered accordingly so that we will no longer groan under the weight of feeling cast adrift in an uncaring & hostile universe - orphans of the cosmos - playthings of the gods. -- Laura Knight-Jadczyk The Noah Syndrome

Offline Parallel

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Re: Aquatic Ape Hypothesis
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2012, 10:45:22 PM »
BBC Aquatic Ape documentary:

The Aquatic Ape Part I   (14:51) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liuE4bkNly0
The Aquatic Ape Part II  (14:31) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGF_KXbB2sQ&feature=related
The Aquatic Ape Part III (20:28) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_jK5ToB0BA&feature=related

...

Quote from: Psyche
Spindle cells are also found in the brains of the humpback whales, fin whales, killer whales and sperm whales [1][2], bottlenose dolphin, Risso’s dolphin, beluga whales[3]  and in the brains of African and Asian elephants.[4]

This is really interesting. Are these spindle cells perhaps foremost a fatty diet thing?

Quote
In his book The Driving Force: Food, Evolution and the Future (1989), [Dr Michael] Crawford explores many issues around "the land-water interface". To develop the large brain characteristic of the hominids, a chemical known as DHA was necessary. The lack of DHA in savannah food may explain the "degenerative evolution" of the brains of savannah species and the reason why Homo sapiens could not have evolved on the savannahs. The marine food chain, on the other hand, has an abundant supply of DHA. Early hominids had to make use of the marine food chain to enable the evolution of brain and brain size to keep pace with body size. Their claim that the human brain depended on the marine food chain suggests independent evidence in support of the importance of water in human evolution.
_http://home.pages.at/jhinrichs/aat/disp1dec.html

....

A heated but interesting debate on AA Theory from 2002;
_http://www.sciforums.com/Aquatic-Ape-Theory-t-10394.html
Use the present to repair the past, and prepare the future- G

Offline marc verhaegen

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Re: Aquatic Ape Hypothesis
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2013, 11:52:06 PM »
Hi all. Nice to see AAT discussed here.
Most discussions of AAT by paleo-anthropologists are irrelevant & outdated, not considering the recent literature on the subject.
Humans didn't descend from "aquatic apes", of course, although our Pleistocene ancestors were too slow & heavy for regular running over open plains as some anthropologists still believe.
Instead, Homo populations during the Ice Ages (with sea-levels often 100 m lower than today) simply followed the coasts & rivers in Africa & Eurasia (coastal dispersal model), eg, 800,000 years ago, they even reached Flores more than 18 km overseas.
Some recent info:
- google "econiche Homo"
- eBook Was Man more aquatic in the past? introduction Phillip Tobias http://www.benthamscience.com/ebooks/9781608052448/index.htm
- guest post at Greg Laden's blog http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2013/01/30/common-misconceptions-and-unproven-assumptions-about-the-aquatic-ape-theory
- http://greencomet.org/2013/05/26/aquatic-ape-the-theory-evolves/
- Human Evolution conference London 8–10 May 2013 with David Attenborough, Don Johanson etc. www.royalmarsden.nhs.uk/education/education-conference-centre/study-days-conferences/pages/2013-evolution.aspx
- M Verhaegen & S Munro 2011 "Pachyosteosclerosis suggests archaic Homo frequently collected sessile littoral foods" HOMO – J compar hum Biol 62:237-247         
- M Vaneechoutte, S Munro & M Verhaegen 2012 "Reply to John Langdon's review of the eBook: Was Man more aquatic in the past?" HOMO – J compar hum Biol 63:496-503
- for ape & australopith evolution google "aquarboreal"
marc verhaegen tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/AAT


Offline Laura

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Re: Aquatic Ape Hypothesis
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2013, 12:27:16 AM »
Thanks for the input, marc.  That deals with some issues I have had with the AAT and certainly works better as a possible/probable scenario.  I've had to deal personally (in my family) with what may be a result of exactly that sort of evolution: hidradenitis suppurativa, so the topic is quite relevant to our daily lives, I think.
He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Agamemnon, Aeschylus

Offline Inquorate

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Re: Aquatic Ape Hypothesis
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2013, 02:16:22 AM »
This reminds me of the following quote:

Quote
Q: (L) I have tried to imagine a planet full of people of pure
   Aryan types, or purified Celtics, and it is difficult to
   imagine what such a culture would be like.  Is there
   anything that we can look at, literary or otherwise, that
   would give me a concept of what this culture or society
   could have been like?

A: Search Japan and the Bahamas.

Q: (L) What?! What do Japan and the Bahamas have in common?

A: See for yourself.  Remember, learning is fun and
   energizes.  Spoonfeeding sessions do little for you.

Could the connection between Japan and the Bahamas be as simple as both of them being insular areas surrounded by water? Books like Where Troy Once Stood and Cataclysm of The Gods by Hugh Fox indicate that Europeans had a real affinity for the sea -- maybe that's a cultural holdover that goes back longer than people have guessed. If Kantek was a really watery planet, maybe that's why chunks of ice and fish occasionally fall out of the sky (like Charles Fort records). And if one part of human evolution happened there, maybe it provided a very marine environment where these kinds of adaptations could have occurred?

Given that the question posed to the C's was about culture, I did a google search and came up with the following;

"According to Hofstede (1993), Trompannar (1992) and other researchers, cultures are the building block of different people groups. Cultures tend to impact and influence human behavior, thereby making it more predictable. People of a specific culture tend to have their common methods and codes of effective communication. Of course, effective communication is an essential skill both in business and in life. In international business it is important to realize that cultural differences severely affect the communication process. According to anthropologist Edward Hall, there is a clear distinction in the way of communicating between the high-context and low-context cultures (Mujtaba, 2007). In high-context cultures such as the Bahamas, Thailand, Japan, or India, there is a less verbally detailed communication and less written/formal information. There is a more subliminal understanding of what is communicated. Often what is left unsaid is as important as what is said."

_http://journals.cluteonline.com/index.php/JDM/article/download/813/797
"What will be, will be." Mavis Brandwood

Offline irjO

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Re: Aquatic Ape Hypothesis
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2013, 05:06:01 AM »
This reminds me of the following quote:

Quote
Q: (L) I have tried to imagine a planet full of people of pure
   Aryan types, or purified Celtics, and it is difficult to
   imagine what such a culture would be like.  Is there
   anything that we can look at, literary or otherwise, that
   would give me a concept of what this culture or society
   could have been like?

A: Search Japan and the Bahamas.

Q: (L) What?! What do Japan and the Bahamas have in common?

A: See for yourself.  Remember, learning is fun and
   energizes.  Spoonfeeding sessions do little for you.

Could the connection between Japan and the Bahamas be as simple as both of them being insular areas surrounded by water? Books like Where Troy Once Stood and Cataclysm of The Gods by Hugh Fox indicate that Europeans had a real affinity for the sea -- maybe that's a cultural holdover that goes back longer than people have guessed. If Kantek was a really watery planet, maybe that's why chunks of ice and fish occasionally fall out of the sky (like Charles Fort records). And if one part of human evolution happened there, maybe it provided a very marine environment where these kinds of adaptations could have occurred?

Given that the question posed to the C's was about culture, I did a google search and came up with the following;

"According to Hofstede (1993), Trompannar (1992) and other researchers, cultures are the building block of different people groups. Cultures tend to impact and influence human behavior, thereby making it more predictable. People of a specific culture tend to have their common methods and codes of effective communication. Of course, effective communication is an essential skill both in business and in life. In international business it is important to realize that cultural differences severely affect the communication process. According to anthropologist Edward Hall, there is a clear distinction in the way of communicating between the high-context and low-context cultures (Mujtaba, 2007). In high-context cultures such as the Bahamas, Thailand, Japan, or India, there is a less verbally detailed communication and less written/formal information. There is a more subliminal understanding of what is communicated. Often what is left unsaid is as important as what is said."

_http://journals.cluteonline.com/index.php/JDM/article/download/813/797

Good info to start with! It could give us a clue of what the C's meant!
"Many are called but a few get up." - Oliver Herford

Offline marc verhaegen

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Re: Aquatic Ape Hypothesis
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2014, 07:14:29 PM »
"Thanks for the input, marc. That deals with some issues I have had with the AAT and certainly works better as a possible/probable scenario. I've had to deal personally (in my family) with what may be a result of exactly that sort of evolution: hidradenitis suppurativa, so the topic is quite relevant to our daily lives, I think."

Sorry for this belated reply.
Yes, hidradenitis suppurativa (acné inversa) might perhaps be one of the many diseases that could be due to our semi-aquatic past: acné, seborrheic dermatitis, male pattern alopecia, asthma, anal & vaginal prolapses, lumbarthrosis, vasomotor rhinopathy, sleep apnea syndrome, etc.
Human sebum contains a lot of squalene, as in beavers & otters, and premature human babies are often born with a sebaceous layer of vernix caseosa (with a lot of squalene).
I guess that the presence of abundant sebaceous glands in the ano-genital resion (as in acné inversa) was an adaptation to protect the 'exits' of our bodies in an aquatic (marine?) environment.

A better term than AAT is 'littoral theory' (coastal dispersal model): rather than running over savannas after ungulates (the 'endurance running' nonsnense), Homo populations during the Ice Ages simply followed the coasts & rivers, beach-combing, wading & diving for different waterside & shallow aquatic plant & animal foods.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Marc_Verhaegen/contributions?ev=prf_act

Offline matías maurán

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Re: Aquatic Ape Hypothesis
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2017, 03:15:51 PM »
There is a relatively recent and very good evidence for this theory, surely several saw it ... have wondered why the fingertips are wrinkled with water? (No, it is not intracellular water saturation) but it is surface Rugosa allows us to better handle the elusive wet and often smooth objects (seafood) I think it would also provide better support and facilitate walking between rocks and rocks.
Haomaru: you're leaving now?
Nakoruru: Yes, I want to understand more about everything
Haohmaru: that means you'll be covered in blood again
Nakoruru: that may be true, but someday I'll find another way.although I do not know the answer, I will continue searching.
Haohmaru: I see.