Author Topic: Life with Passive aggressive Personality Disorder  (Read 190964 times)

Offline Arwenn

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Life with Passive aggressive Personality Disorder
« on: April 13, 2013, 04:46:08 AM »
What a relief it's been for me to actually put a name, a syndrome to the psychological deviant that is my ex. The labels of sociopath, psychopath schizotypal etc didn't fit him, although there were aspects along the continuum of personality disorders that applied, but I wouldn't say that he is a psychopath. Well, I came upon some information about passive aggressive personality disorder, which fits him to a tee. I cried when I read it.  :cry:For so so long, I have carried this guilt that somehow I didn't do enough, I didn't be enough...

I searched the forum to see if anyone had posted on this personality dosorder and didn't find a thread.

From a blog called mailmandelivers, is the following (a bit lengthy, worth reading in its entirety though):
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The Passive Aggressive

There are many childhood set ups for this way of coping but most often there is a domineering mother and a father who is ineffectual. There are power struggles in the marriage with one parent backing off and withdrawing. The boy feels trapped between choosing loyalties at home. He is afraid to compete with his father who is absent either physically or emotionally or perceived as being inadequate. In the typical mother dominant-father passive relationship, the boy learns that the job of being a man in relationship is to escape the woman's needs and subsequent demands.

The young boy is not allowed to express his feelings and develop a sense of self. He wants his mother's attention and care yet he resents her continual intrusion. His anger grows but he cannot express it so it becomes submerged and is expressed in an unconscious ‘You can't tell me what to do.' He is not allowed to get his way by direct confrontation and competition so he learns to displace his anger through resistance. He learns to use charm, stubbornness, resistance and withdrawal to protect himself in power struggles. He rebels by becoming moody, being an underachiever or developing behavior problems. His self protectiveness and duplicity from the squelched anger and hostility becomes a habit that he plays out with other women he meets. He desperately seeks a woman to meet his needs of being accepted for who he is, but puts her off with small, continual acts of rebellion. He replays the distancing drama of his original family in the relationship.

The man with passive aggressive behavior needs someone to be the object of his hidden hostility. He needs an adversary whose expectations and demands he can resist as he plays out the dance he learned from his parents. He chooses a woman who will agree to be on the receiving end of his disowned anger. He resists her in small ways setting up a pattern of frustration so that she gets to express the anger that he cannot.

The biggest irritant in being with a passive aggressive man is that he doesn't follow through on his agreements and promises. He dodges responsibility while insisting he's pulling his weight. He often ignores reality as to his irresponsibility and withdrawal. He denies evidence, distorts minimalizes or lies to make his version of reality seem logical.

He uses vague language to sandbag the partner. Inconsistency and ambiguity are his tools of choice.  He withholds information and has a hidden agenda. He can't take criticism and makes excuses to get himself off the hook. He sulks and uses silence when confronted about his inability to live up to his promises, obligations or responsibilities. When he doesn't follow through, he puts the blame on his partner so he doesn't have to take it and accuses her of having the problem.

The man with this type of pattern shows little consideration of the time, feelings, standards or needs of others. He obstructs and block progress to others getting what they want and then ignores or minimalizes their dissatisfactions and anger. He is silent when confronted as he has never learned to compromise. He may be a workaholic, a womanizer, hooked on TV, caught in addictions or self-involved hobbies.

He may have multiple relationships with women as a way of keeping distant from one fully committed relationship. He is confused about which woman he wants and stays caught between the two women in his life not being able to commit fully to either. He is confused and can't understand why the women get so angry with him. He feels others demand too much of him so resists in overt and subtle ways and feels deprived if he must give in to others. The man who copes with conflict by not being there has strong conflict over dependency. He desperately wants attention but fears being swallowed up by the partner. He can't be alone and live without a woman in his life, but can't be with a partner emotionally. He's caught in a Catch 22--wanting affection but avoiding it because he fears it as his destruction. He resents feeling dependent on the woman so must keep her off guard. He makes his partner feel like a nothing through his neglect or irritability but he keeps her around because he needs her. His script is ‘Be here for me, but don't come too close and don't burden me with your needs or expectations.'

He has such strong fears of intimacy deep in his unconscious mind so he must set barriers up to prevent a deep emotional connection. He is clever at derailing intimacy when it comes up by tuning out his partner and changing the subject. He must withhold part of himself to feel safe and may withdraw sexually. Closeness and intimacy during sex may make him feel vulnerable and panicked bringing forth his deepest fears of dependency upon a woman. The passive aggressive man lives an internal loneliness; he wants to be with the woman but stays confused whether she is the right partner for him or not. He is scared and insecure causing him to seek contact with a partner but scared and insecure to fully commit.

Due to the wounding from childhood, he is unable to trust that he is safe within the relationship. He fears revealing himself and can't share feelings. His refusal to express feelings keeps him from experiencing his sense of insecurity and vulnerability. He often denies feelings like love that might trap him into true connection with another human being. He feels rejected and hurt when things don't go his way but can't distinguish between feeling rejected and being rejected. He pushes people away first so he won't be rejected. He is often irritable and uses low-level hostility to create distance at home. The relationship becomes based on keeping the partner at bay. He often sets up experiences to get others to reject or deprive him. He is noncommittal and retreats, feeling put upon and burdened by partner's requests for more closeness. He becomes a cave dweller to feel safe.

The man with passive aggressive actions is a master in getting his partner to doubt herself and feel guilty for questioning or confronting him. He encourages her to fall for his apologies, accept his excuses and focus on his charm rather than deal with the issue directly. He blames her for creating the problem and keeps her focused on her anger rather than his own ineptitude. When backed into a corner, he may explode and switch to aggressiveaggressive behavior then switch back to passivity. He keeps his partner held hostage by the hope that he will change. He may appease her and clean up his act after a blow up for several weeks, then it's back to business as usual.

The passive aggressive man is the classic underachiever with a fear of competition in the work place. He cannot take constructive feedback from others. His fear of criticism, not following through and his inability to see his part in any conflict keeps him from advancing on the job.

You are not seen as a person with feelings and needs. They care for you the way they care for a favorite pair of slippers or an old easy-chair. You are there for their comfort and pleasure and are of use as long as you fill their needs. The sad thing is, they can sweet talk you, know all the right things to say, to make you believe that you are loved and adored by a someone who is completely unable to form an emotional connection with anyone.

If forced to deal with the problems you’re having due to their behavior, they will completely withdraw from the relationship and you. They will almost never admit that they were wrong no matter how much evidence you show. They have their own version of reality and will work at making your view distorted.

While most men are having sex with their partner in order to connect more deeply with her, the passive aggressive man withholds sex from his partner in order to keep himself safe and to show her who the boss is. Sex is a weapon to be used, not a way of connecting more emotionally.

These people are usually unaware that the difficulties they encounter in their life are the result of their own behavior. They do not connect their passive resistant behavior to the hostility or resentment other people feel towards them. Dealing with passive aggressive people can be crazymaking. You feel dismissed, shut down, ignored… but in a subtle enough way that you don’t know how to react. At some point, you explode.

 

He Hurts Everyone in His Path, Including Himself

They're the men who seem so nice, and trustworthy. They don't hurt you out in the open, but in a very subtle way, you may not even be aware of. Just the same, they can hurt the people they say they care about the most.

A passive-aggressive man usually grows up in a household which may have a parent who is either passive-aggressive, or overbearing and controlling. If he really has bad luck, he may grow up with both. When the boy decides to be weak, unassuming, and afraid to stand up for himself. Ergo, he asserts himself in passive aggressive ways. This ends up hurting allot of the people he truly cares for.

The passive aggressive man is very often seen as the nice guy that would do anything for anybody. He never says "NO", at least not out loud, to any request anyone makes of him. He is often everybody's token doormat. What most people don't know is there's a volcano ready to erupt inside this man. He is too afraid to speak up and tell you what he thinks. Therefore, he goes about his life sneaking around doing things he doesn't want anybody to know about, getting back at people in ways that have nothing much to do with why he's really mad, and not standing up to the person, or persons, he needs too. He then ends up hurting those he cares about.

Passive aggressive behavior stems from an inability to express anger in a healthy way. A person's feelings may be so repressed that they don't even realize they are angry or feeling resentment. A passive aggressive can drive people around him/her crazy and seem sincerely dismayed when confronted with their behavior. Due to their own lack of insight into their feelings the passive aggressive often feels that others misunderstand them or, are holding them to unreasonable standards if they are confronted about their behavior.

Common Passive Aggressive Behaviors:

They rarely mean what they say or say what they mean. The best judge of how a passive aggressive feels about an issue is how they act. Normally they don't act until after they've caused some kind of stress by their ambiguous way of communicating.

The passive aggressive avoids responsibility by "forgetting." How convenient is that? There is no easier way to punish someone than forgetting that lunch date or your birthday or, better yet, an anniversary.

He may never express anger. There are some who are happy with whatever you want. On the outside anyway! The passive aggressive may have been taught, as a child, that anger is unacceptable. Hence they go through life stuffing their anger, being accommodating and then sticking it to you in an under-handed way.

The passive aggressive often can't trust. Because of this, they guard themselves against becoming intimately attached to someone. A passive aggressive will have sex with you but they rarely make love to you. If they feel themselves becoming attached, they may punish you by withholding sex.

Do you want something from your passive aggressive spouse? If so, get ready to wait for it or maybe even never get it. It is important to him/her that you don't get your way. He/she will act as if giving you what you want is important to them but, rarely will he/she follow through with giving it. It is very confusing to have someone appear to want to give to you but never follow through. You can begin to feel as if you are asking too much which is exactly what he/she wants to you to feel.

The Passive Aggressive and You:

The passive aggressive needs to have a relationship with someone who can be the object of his or her hostility. They need someone whose expectations and demands he/she can resist.

The biggest frustration in being with a passive aggressive is that they never follow through on agreements and promises. He/she will dodge responsibility for anything in the relationship while at the same time making it look as if he/she is pulling his/her own weight and is a very loving partner. The sad thing is, you can be made to believe that you are loved and adored by a person who is completely unable to form an emotional connection with anyone.

The passive aggressive ignores problems in the relationship, sees things through their own skewed sense of reality and if forced to deal with the problems will completely withdraw from the relationship and you. They will deny evidence of wrong doing, distort what you know to be real to fit their own agenda, minimize or lie so that their version of what is real seems more logical.

The passive aggressive will say one thing, do another, and then deny ever saying the first thing.  The passive aggressive withholds information about how he/she feels, their ego is fragile and can't take the slightest criticism so why let you know what they are thinking or feeling? God forbid they disclose that information and you criticize them.


Inside the Passive Aggressive:

The passive aggressive has a real desire to connect emotionally but their fear of such a connection causes them to be obstructive and engage in self-destructive habits. He will be covert in his actions and it will only move him further from his desired relationship with you.

The passive aggressive never looks internally and examines their role in a problem. They have to externalize it and blame others for having shortcomings
. To accept that he has flaws would be tantamount to emotional self-destruction. They live in denial of their self-destructive behaviors, the consequences of those behaviors and the choices they make that cause others so much pain.

The passive aggressive objectifies the object of their desire. You are to be used as a means to an end. Your only value is to feed his own emotional needs. You are not seen as a person with feelings and needs but as an extension of him.  You are there for their comfort and pleasure and are of use as long as you fill their needs.

The passive aggressive wants the attention and attachment that comes with loving someone but fears losing his  independence and sense of self to his spouse. They want love and attention but avoid it out of fear of it destroying them. You have to be kept at arms length and if there is an emotional attachment it is tenuous at best.

I’m about to fill you in on a little secret. Anger plays a role in passive aggressive behavior. Yep, that passive aggressive spouse that is driving you insane is angry as hell and full of grief. The passive aggressive deals with anger in one of two ways. Either they have no control over their anger or they have problems expressing their anger.

Adults who have no control over their anger and those who have no idea how to express their anger are grieving. They are grieving the loss of something that was rightfully theirs
. Their right to entertain themselves regardless of societies or their parent’s beliefs of what was right or wrong. The right to be heard and cared for regardless of how addicted a parent was to alcohol or drugs. They are grieving the right to express love or negative feelings or a desire for parental attention without fear of punishment.

It is about loss, the loss of normal things any child should expect from a parent. Instead of grieving that loss in a normal way, they internalize it and compensate by being overly aggressive or overly passive. The grief shows itself in behaviors that are destructive to themselves and anyone who engages in a relationship with them.

A man who abuses his wife is often motivated by feelings of loss and grief. Feelings that are expressed through rage. Women who emotionally manipulate their husband by withholding affection are motivated by the same feelings of loss and grief.

The aggression or passivity hides their fear of rejection and helplessness when it comes to getting what they need from their spouse. The spouse is left reeling and wondering what he/she did to deserve a slap across the face or the withholding of normal loving affection.

The spouse feels responsible in some way. That is the sneaky thing about living with a passive aggressive individual. They don’t know how to properly express anger but they are geniuses when it comes to shifting the blame and projecting their own bad behavior off onto their spouse.

Next time you are trying to make sense of some nonsensical behavior by your spouse remember you are dealing with a wounded, damaged child. Don’t make excuses for him/her. Don’t take responsibility for their inability to properly express their grief and anger. Understanding why someone acts the way they do does not mean excusing their hurtful actions.

Knowledge is power


My story...

I met him when I was 28, naive and had very low self esteem. I was lonely. Deep down, there were some red flags but I (being overly-responsible) either blamed myself, or brushed it under the carpet. The attraction for me was that I felt sorry for him, as his mum left him and his brother at the ages of 12 and 11, and being very maternal, I wanted to look after him. I sincerely thought I could 'fix' him, and heal his wounds and all would be well!  :/

The troubles really became magnified when we had a baby 2 years later and a mortgage to boot. He was more than happy for me to work as I earned more than him, and be his sugar mama. But when the kids came along and I needed him to step up to the mark and be the man, he just couldn't do it. So, I had the responsibility of working, earning money, paying bills, raising two small children and keeping house.

We'd decided for me to the bread-winner and him to be the stay@home parent- as soon as I'd get home, he'd dump the kids on me and go out to have a 'break'! The house would be a mess, the cooking wasn't done and the kids needed tending -you know running a bath, reading a story, cuddling with them and getting them off to sleep.

He never followed through on any of his promises. He withheld sex, we only had it if he wanted it, I was sluttty and promiscuous of I ever wanted it. He was happy to dust his kids off and show them off and tout about what a great father he was(which is what it appeared to ne to the outside world). Only me and my family know what empty rhetoric that was. The worst was finding out that he was blaming me for what he was guilty of- useless, lazy and aggressive.

More of my life Fifty Shades in the next post....
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 09:35:53 AM by Laura »

'FORGET "I should", forget it all. Replace it by "I LOVE TO DO ...." and skip completely the TIME issue. If you need five lives to accomplish what you WANT, let this be the first of those five. And then, without any "time obligation" or "should stressing" - start it.  First step first. And ENJOY it. And LOVE yourself - take care of yourself.
This is the only thing that the Universe (God?) wants from you, I think.'  Arkadiusz Jadczyk

Offline Arwenn

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The following quotes are also from the blog mailmandelivers, followed by my experiences below the personality traits described

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Passive Aggressive Traits

"FEAR OF INTIMACY - Guarded & mistrusful, he is reluctant to show his emotional fragility.  He's often out of touch with his feelings, instinctually denying feelings he thinks will "trap" or reveal him, like love.  He picks fights to create distance."

He always was suspicious of me, women in general of being devious and untrustworthy. He would withold sex-we only had it when he wanted it, if I wanted it (which wasn't often when you are the one working and raising a family and coping with a damaged 8 year old in a man's body)- of course this meant I was a sl*t & not to be trusted. It only made me angry which was what he wanted.  Sex was a tool,to be used against me

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OBSTRUCTIONISM - tell him what you want, no matter how small, and he may promise to get it for you but he won't say when, and he"ll do it deliberately slow just to frustrate you, and maybe he won't do it at all.  He blocks any real progress he sees to your getting your way.

Oh so true. He promised me the world and delivered...nothing. If the lawns needed mowing, he would fiddle with the lawn mower, do half the yard, declare that it needed more fuel and that he'd be back. But of course in order to do it properly, he needed to  have to have a coffee at the restaurant that he worked at, where he'd bump into his friends and lose track of time, and by the time he'd remember he had 'chores' to finish, the day would be nearly over. In the mean time, I'd have to do the housework, tend to the kids, cook dinner-because if I didn't we'd be eating canned food or takeaway. Everyday.

He said he'd sign the mortgage papers but he would not in any way be held responsible for contributing to the payments as he's a 'nowist'- basically his new age term for being a loser. He would not commit to anything, not me, not his kids , not even to feed, clothe and roof  them.


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FEELING VICTIMIZED -  protests that others unfairly accuse him rather than owning up to his own misdeeds.  To remain above reproach, sets himself up as the apparently hapless, innocent victim of your excessive demands and tirades.

So so true- I became the nagging 'wife'- (we never did get married, thank God)- anything I'd ask him to do, would be done so ineptly, that I'd just have to do it myself. And of course I was a bit€ch, I was criticizing him, I was nagging him- in short I was the one with the issues, yet I was the one doing all of the work all of the time! And feeling guilty to boot-because he did have me questioning myself, because I did feel sorry for him, because I could see the broken child inside him that was yearning for it's mother.


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MAKING EXCUSES & LYING - makes unlimited excuses for not  fulfilling promises.  As a way of withholding information, affirmation or love - to have power over you, may make up a story rather than give a straight answer. Lies when unnecessary.

He had a saying 'truth needs no justification', yet I believe he was a pathological twister of words, not an out and out liar, but lying by way of omission and distortion. How could he not, but such a distorted twisted inner reality? He was also gambling and compulsively lying about it.  I started having to keep control of all the finances, as I couldn't trust him with money. When my daughter was born, I asked him to contribute for a savings account for her. I'd kept the money aside, intending to to open a bank account soon. In the meantime we'd decided to buy a camper and I was going to use the money I'd kept aside in a box to put towards the purchase...only to find a note about how he'd used the money for a gambling spree and how he'd never do it again and how he was going to change. Yeah, right.


Quote
CHRONIC LATENESS & FORGETFULNESS - One of the most infuriating & inconsiderate. By keeping you waiting, he sets the ground rules of the relationship.  Selective forgetting - used only when he wants to avoid an obligation.

Oh yes, he had a poor sense of time, forcing us to rush around and thus for him to drive erratically, placing us all,at risk, and also of course numerous speed fines and infringements. Which of course, I would have to pay, because he wasn't consistently earning money.Yet all of these were somehow my fault, and if I was mad at the recklessness, I was once again the nagging partner, who had no faith in her man. How could I be so low?!

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AMBIGUITY - a master of mixed messages and sitting on fences.  When he tells you something, you may still walk away wondering if he actually said yes or no.

Yup- even though he has no formal education, I thought he'd have made a great lawyer(read liar) or politician(read liar). You could never pin him down to anything-he could barely be responsible for himself let alone anyone else. By being ambiguous, you couldn't pin him to anything, therefore he was responsible for nothing....

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FEAR OF DEPENDENCY  - Unsure of his autonomy & afraid of being alone, he fights his dependency needs, usually by trying to control you.

Controlling me and manipulating me was his aim all along, as I started to become more grounded in myself thanks to the help of a friend, he really resented me, AND the passive anger started to become more aggressive- slamming fists down, banging doors, even more reck less driving etc. he then started to try and turn the kids away from me, never overtly, just in subtle ways of putting me down, making me seem to be the ungrateful one, him the hard worker-basically foisting upon me all the traits that he was very very guilty of, and selling this to the world

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SULKING - feels put upon when unable to live up to his promises or obligations, he retreats and sulks, pouts and withdraws.
This silent treatment was the worst part of living with him, you could slice the tension and it was such an unhealthy emotional environment for the kids.

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PROCRASTINATION - an odd sense of time - believes deadlines don't exist for him.

No, if it were up to him, he'd condescend to pay the mortgage when he felt like it, not when it was due, how dare the banking cartel insist on regular payments?! How dare the washing and cleaning need to be done regularly, more importantly as the breadwinner, how dare I expect him to do it! And regularly to boot- no it must be his choice as to when ( &possibly if) he'd do the cleaning cooking etc...it was enough that the kids were 'nurtured' by his love, that did not also require physical nutrition continually... So of course, all that feel to me, as well as  earning the money on a regular basis. There was no division of labour - I'd have to do it all, and he'd still paint me as being the lazy one to the rest of the world

So, how did this all end? By 2003 we had 2 children and a mortgage and work was hard to find in the city, so I'd found a position in my profession in  a small town along the coast (4 hours drive north from my family and the city). We moved in March2004. He hated it. I used to discuss my problems with my staff and drew support from their strength and sanity. It'd been so long since I could talk to someone who wasn't taken in by idiot's lies, and who could see the truth of the situation. We tried living separated under the same roof. He was getting more progressively aggressive, as his manipulating wasn't working quite so well. He threatened to leave me many times.

In Dec of 2004, he left 10 days before Xmas (deliberately of course, as punishment for me and the kids, because he ostensibly just couldn't bear to me with me a moment longer). I had no family and very few friends, and no daycare to look after the kids while I worked. It was the final act of manipulating me- I think he really thought I wouldn't be able to cope and within months he'd be back in the steering seat again. I know that he was deranged when he proposed that we split the kids and he take my son & go live with him and his father, and leave my daughter with me. What kind of 'parent' would suggest that?

Well, I didn't. In fact, despite many other hurdles, (my dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer and subsequently passed in '06, I had some serious health issues),   with the support of work mates, I  am raising 2kids on my own, and providing for them on my own. He has never contributed fiscally towards the kids. In fact, believe it or not, I still kept feeling sorry for him, as i kept the house (he never contributed regularly to payments and gambled our savings, and I'd bought it with a deposit from my years of saving)- and yet, somehow I felt guilty and sorry for him. I gave him money to but himself a car. I flew myself and kids up to see him. I paid for him to accompany us on an overseas trip where I was attending a conference (I couldn't have the kids inside the conference with me). At this stage the children were 10 and 8, and could see through his manipulations and his general ineptitude, and were getting as frustrated and angry as I'd been when we were together!

The very final straw come following that trip where he texted me saying he couldn't do it, I hadn't changed one bit, I was still a bi#t%ch & a nagger etc etc etc. I simply replied that he was sick in the head, and was never to contact the kids until they were 18. Back then (this was 2 years ago) I had not come across any material on personality disorders, but I knew he was a very sick man, and i had to protect my children from him. He's done enough damage already.

 Being able to diagnose him, and know, viscerally, that I really did do by best, that I have no reason to feel shame or guilt, has lifted a huge burden from my heart.
I hope this post helps someone, and if you have been through a relationship like mine, the read the quote below-it's so true!  :cool2:

Quote
"Don't worry; he didn't pick you because you are weak or an easy target. He picked you because you have all the qualities he wants and can never have."

[quote/]

'FORGET "I should", forget it all. Replace it by "I LOVE TO DO ...." and skip completely the TIME issue. If you need five lives to accomplish what you WANT, let this be the first of those five. And then, without any "time obligation" or "should stressing" - start it.  First step first. And ENJOY it. And LOVE yourself - take care of yourself.
This is the only thing that the Universe (God?) wants from you, I think.'  Arkadiusz Jadczyk

Offline Arwenn

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Re: Life with Fifty Shades- Passive aggressive Personality Disorder
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2013, 05:27:38 AM »
A note to mods- how do I edit my post or title for spelling changes? I wanted to change the title of my initial post, and I wasn't sure how to do so.

Thanks

'FORGET "I should", forget it all. Replace it by "I LOVE TO DO ...." and skip completely the TIME issue. If you need five lives to accomplish what you WANT, let this be the first of those five. And then, without any "time obligation" or "should stressing" - start it.  First step first. And ENJOY it. And LOVE yourself - take care of yourself.
This is the only thing that the Universe (God?) wants from you, I think.'  Arkadiusz Jadczyk

Online Laura

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Re: Life with my Fifty Shades- Passive aggressive Personality Disorder
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2013, 08:41:58 AM »
My ex was diagnosed with PAPD so I know exactly what you are talking about.  I thought there was a thread about it, but I guess not.

He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Agamemnon, Aeschylus

Offline obyvatel

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Re: Life with Fifty Shades- Passive aggressive Personality Disorder
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2013, 08:58:36 AM »
A note to mods- how do I edit my post or title for spelling changes? I wanted to change the title of my initial post, and I wasn't sure how to do so.

Thanks

  Hi Arwenn,
     Unfortunately you cannot edit your posts until you reach a post count of 50. What would you like to change the title of this topic to?
What should we have ready at hand in difficult situations?
 Simply the knowledge of what is under my control and what is not.

Epictetus

What is not made conscious often comes to us as fate.

Carl Jung

Offline Arwenn

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Re: Life with Fifty Shades- Passive aggressive Personality Disorder
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2013, 09:27:56 AM »
A note to mods- how do I edit my post or title for spelling changes? I wanted to change the title of my initial post, and I wasn't sure how to do so.

Thanks

  Hi Arwenn,
     Unfortunately you cannot edit your posts until you reach a post count of 50. What would you like to change the title of this topic to?

Hi obyvatel,

Thanks for letting me know about modifying posts. I thought perhaps I was being too emotional with my reference to Fifty shades, really there was no messed up stuff going on the bedroom. :rolleyes: As I posted above, sex was rare and a tool which he used against me.

I didn't want to put anyone off reading this post with that title, and I thought I might change it to:
"Passive-Aggressive Personality Disorder". I will leave that up to you mods, though.

'FORGET "I should", forget it all. Replace it by "I LOVE TO DO ...." and skip completely the TIME issue. If you need five lives to accomplish what you WANT, let this be the first of those five. And then, without any "time obligation" or "should stressing" - start it.  First step first. And ENJOY it. And LOVE yourself - take care of yourself.
This is the only thing that the Universe (God?) wants from you, I think.'  Arkadiusz Jadczyk

Offline Arwenn

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Re: Life with my Fifty Shades- Passive aggressive Personality Disorder
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2013, 10:00:16 AM »
My ex was diagnosed with PAPD so I know exactly what you are talking about.  I thought there was a thread about it, but I guess not.

Hi Laura,

Reading about the subtle manipulations of your ex reminded me very much of my experiences with mine. But it helps to define a deviant, its so therapeutic to put it into perspective and relieve oneself of the burden of guilt. It's so much easier to identify when you're being abused overtly, ie physical or verbal. But it's much harder to identify when it's insidious, subtle, covert- which is exactly what PAPD people do to you. You don't even know that's it's happening until i'ts too late.

My readings into the personality disorders led me to PAPD, and the lightbulb went on. Prior to that, I'd never heard of gas lighting, something my ex did/does very well. For those that may not know what gas lighting is, this quote from healthyplace.com (emphases mine):

Quote
Gaslighting is a form of emotional abuse where the abuser manipulates situations repeatedly to trick the victim into distrusting his or her own memory and perceptions. Gaslighting is an insidious form of abuse. It makes victims question the very instincts that they have counted on their whole lives, making them unsure of anything.

I know much has been written and said about psychopathy, but it seems this is the modus operandi of all the psychological deviants-bfirst find a hook, and once you're in, wreak havoc by creating self doubt, shifting blame & doing as little as possible.

Quote
Gaslighting makes it very likely that victims will believe whatever their abusers tell them regardless as to their own experience of the situation. Gaslighting often precedes other types of emotional and physical abuse because the victim of gaslighting is more likely to remain in other abusive situations as well.

The term "gaslighting" comes from the 1938 British play "Gas Light" wherein a husband attempts to drive his wife crazy using a variety of tricks causing her to question her own perceptions and sanity. Gas Light was made into a movie both in 1940 and 1944.

Gaslighting Techniques and Examples
There are numerous gaslighting techniques which can make gaslighting more difficult to identify. Gaslighting techniques are used to hide truths that the abuser doesn't want the victim to realize. Gaslighting abuse can be perpetrated by either women or men.

"Withholding" is one gaslighting technique where the abuser feigns a lack of understanding, refuses to listen and declines sharing his emotions. Gaslighting examples of this would be:
"I'm not listening to that crap again tonight."
"You're just trying to confuse me."

Another gaslighting technique is "countering," where an abuser will vehemently call into question a victim's memory in spite of the victim having remembered things correctly.
"Think about when you didn't remember things correctly last time."
"You thought that last time and you were wrong."
These techniques throw the victim off the intended subject matter and make them question their own motivations and perceptions rather than the issue at hand.

It is then that the abuser will start to question the experiences, thoughts and opinions more globally through statements said in anger like:
"You see everything in the most negative way."
"Well you obviously never believed in me then."
"You have an overactive imagination."

"Blocking" and "diverting" are gaslighting techniques whereby the abuser again changes the conversation from the subject matter to questioning the victim's thoughts and controlling the conversation. Gaslighting examples of this include:
"I'm not going through that again."
"Where did you get a crazy idea like that?"
"Quit bitching."
"You're hurting me on purpose."

"Trivializing" is another way of gaslighting. It involves making the victim believe his or her thoughts or needs aren't important, such as:
"You're going to let something like that come between us?"

Abusive "forgetting" and "denial" can also be forms of gaslighting. In this technique, the abuser pretends to forget things that have really occurred; the abuser may also deny things like promises that have been made that are important to the victim. An abuser might say,
"What are you talking about?"
"I don't have to take this."
"You're making that up."
Some gaslighters will then mock the victim for their "wrongdoings" and "misperceptions."

Gaslighting Psychology
The gaslighting techniques are used in conjunction to try to make the victim doubt their own thoughts, memories and actions. Soon the victim is scared to bring up any topic at all for fear they are "wrong" about it or don't remember the situation correctly.

The worst gaslighters will even create situations that allow for the usage of gaslighting techniques. An example of this is taking the victim's keys from the place where they are always left, making the victim think she has misplaced them. Then "helping" the victim with her "bad memory" find the keys.



Like you said Laura, who needs aliens when you have psychological deviants wreaking lives and creating yummy food for the moon by creating misery, untold stress, sadness and suffering.  :huh:

The term came from the 1944 movie called "Gaslight." From forum2.aimoo

Quote
So, the movie "Gaslight" is about a psychopath who marries a woman in order to take over her estate. He does all kinds of things to make her believe she’s going insane. He dims the gaslights in the house, and when she senses that the lights have dimmed, she’s told it’s all in her imagination and that the lights have not changed at all. He hides little items of hers and then accuses her of “always losing things,” tells her that her memory is going. He convinces her that she’s “unwell” and keeps her totally isolated from all her friends. He even convinces one of the housemaids (played by a 17-year-old Angela Lansbury) that his wife is crazy (and herein lies a great example of “abuse by proxy,” as the young housemaid starts to hate the wife and believe she’s crazy).

The N/P husband also does things like openly flirt with the housemaid, and when the wife becomes upset about it, he tells her she’s overreacting, that he’s “just being friendly” with the help. He uses just about every tactic in the book, and from the perspective of a woman who’s been raked over the coals by an N/P. 

I found it therapeutic to watch as the wife is broken down little by little, and then see later on how she slowly regains her true memory of events, how she realizes red flags she missed, and how she becomes empowered by the final scene. I watched in familiar horror as the N/P husband went from charming, loving, affectionate dream man to cold, calculating, black-hearted, sadistic demon. It is a PERFECT portrayal of how a relationship with an N/P begins, how it develops, and how the victim of the N/P is left devastated, confused and in pieces. 
  :O

'FORGET "I should", forget it all. Replace it by "I LOVE TO DO ...." and skip completely the TIME issue. If you need five lives to accomplish what you WANT, let this be the first of those five. And then, without any "time obligation" or "should stressing" - start it.  First step first. And ENJOY it. And LOVE yourself - take care of yourself.
This is the only thing that the Universe (God?) wants from you, I think.'  Arkadiusz Jadczyk

Offline LQB

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 Being able to diagnose him, and know, viscerally, that I really did do by best, that I have no reason to feel shame or guilt, has lifted a huge burden from my heart.
I hope this post helps someone, and if you have been through a relationship like mine, the read the quote below-it's so true!  :cool2:


"Don't worry; he didn't pick you because you are weak or an easy target. He picked you because you have all the qualities he wants and can never have."


Very true - and the truth really does set you free. I can feel your relief. I went through similar reading Simon's description of the Covert Aggressive in his book "In Sheep's Clothing" (you might want to give it a read if you haven't).

Added: tried to fix quotes
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 03:43:58 PM by Heimdallr »
The only thing that seems to offer a way out is simply to observe the phenomena and compare the perceptions with a lot of other folks and try to narrow down the "constant" that is present in all of them.  In this way, we can have a closer idea of what the Third Man REALLY is, and what he is REALLY doing, and what then, should be our best response.  And, of course, "observing phenomena" means, in its most literal sense, to gain and gather knowledge of every form and sort so that one has a sufficient database from which to draw conclusions about observations of one's environment.

Offline Jeremy F Kreuz

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Re: Life with Passive aggressive Personality Disorder
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2013, 02:07:16 PM »
Arwenn,

you might want to check the thread ´disturbing family weekend´ where I wrote about my own tendencies to be passive agressive. the thread also mentions some books on the topic that might be of interest to you.
“One person can make a difference and every person should try.” John F. Kennedy

Offline MB

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Re: Life with Passive aggressive Personality Disorder
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2013, 04:18:51 PM »
You can find a few comments about Gaslight on the movie board.

George Simon makes some interesting observations about passive aggressiveness in his book Character Disturbance. I can't summarize what he said from memory, but the book is one of our "narcissism big 5" and highly recommended.

Offline skycsil

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Re: Life with Passive aggressive Personality Disorder
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2013, 05:10:15 PM »
Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is helping me enormously to understand not only my ex, but also my reaction to him. Basically, I tried many times to make him angry because thought it would help him release all his bitterness inside. What a waste of energy!
99% of what you quote about this disorder would describe him perfectly.
Thanks again. Such a relief to know this!  :)
Perhaps what we want in life is not what we need.

Offline Arwenn

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 Being able to diagnose him, and know, viscerally, that I really did do by best, that I have no reason to feel shame or guilt, has lifted a huge burden from my heart.
I hope this post helps someone, and if you have been through a relationship like mine, the read the quote below-it's so true!  :cool2:


"Don't worry; he didn't pick you because you are weak or an easy target. He picked you because you have all the qualities he wants and can never have."


Very true - and the truth really does set you free. I can feel your relief. I went through similar reading Simon's description of the Covert Aggressive in his book "In Sheep's Clothing" (you might want to give it a read if you haven't).

Added: tried to fix quotes


Thanks for the heads-up on Simon's books-I am reading In Sheeps Clothing right now, and having many 'Ah ha' moments. Character disturbance is next on my list.

My ex's issues were from his early childhood-he doesn't fit the bill of OP, cluster A or B personality disorders. He was just deeply wounded as a child as a result of his family environment and then his mother abandoning him.

'FORGET "I should", forget it all. Replace it by "I LOVE TO DO ...." and skip completely the TIME issue. If you need five lives to accomplish what you WANT, let this be the first of those five. And then, without any "time obligation" or "should stressing" - start it.  First step first. And ENJOY it. And LOVE yourself - take care of yourself.
This is the only thing that the Universe (God?) wants from you, I think.'  Arkadiusz Jadczyk

Offline Arwenn

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Re: Life with Passive aggressive Personality Disorder
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2013, 02:10:05 AM »
You can find a few comments about Gaslight on the movie board.

George Simon makes some interesting observations about passive aggressiveness in his book Character Disturbance. I can't summarize what he said from memory, but the book is one of our "narcissism big 5" and highly recommended.

I read up on those comments Megan, and I'd like to watch the movie. I somehow dont think itll be an easy one to watch, but of value nonetheless.

 I'm reading In Sheeps Clothing (just started it)-  curious to see if he has ways of dealing with these psychological deviants. In the case of my ex, I had a choice to leave-but what if you come across these character disordered peeps in the workplace for example, and extricating oneself is not an option?

'FORGET "I should", forget it all. Replace it by "I LOVE TO DO ...." and skip completely the TIME issue. If you need five lives to accomplish what you WANT, let this be the first of those five. And then, without any "time obligation" or "should stressing" - start it.  First step first. And ENJOY it. And LOVE yourself - take care of yourself.
This is the only thing that the Universe (God?) wants from you, I think.'  Arkadiusz Jadczyk

Offline Arwenn

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Re: Life with Passive aggressive Personality Disorder
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2013, 02:20:58 AM »
Arwenn,

you might want to check the thread ´disturbing family weekend´ where I wrote about my own tendencies to be passive agressive. the thread also mentions some books on the topic that might be of interest to you.

Hi Jeremy,

I couldn't find that thread, although I did see a similar post of yours here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,12484.msg203797.html#msg203797

I'm really curious about you, and if your share your inner experiences and realizations, it might help a lot of us to understand. So I have some questions if you don't mind- how, when and what made you realize that you are passive-aggressive? Was it a childhood set-up, that you were re-creating? How have you moved forward? Is manipulating so subtle, that you really have to catch yourself doing it?

I hope I'm not being too intrusive, it's just that there is no way that my ex would admit that he is the one with the problem. Ever. Period. So Jeremy, please share, so we can learn.

'FORGET "I should", forget it all. Replace it by "I LOVE TO DO ...." and skip completely the TIME issue. If you need five lives to accomplish what you WANT, let this be the first of those five. And then, without any "time obligation" or "should stressing" - start it.  First step first. And ENJOY it. And LOVE yourself - take care of yourself.
This is the only thing that the Universe (God?) wants from you, I think.'  Arkadiusz Jadczyk

Offline Arwenn

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Re: Life with Passive aggressive Personality Disorder
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2013, 02:30:31 AM »
Thank you, thank you, thank you! This is helping me enormously to understand not only my ex, but also my reaction to him. Basically, I tried many times to make him angry because thought it would help him release all his bitterness inside. What a waste of energy!
99% of what you quote about this disorder would describe him perfectly.
Thanks again. Such a relief to know this!  :)

I am so pleased that its helped you! There is another thread called Passive Anger here http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,12484.msg89254.html#msg89254  which might also help, but do definitely read the books mentioned above-it's an eye opener!

What I am curious now to know, is how to deal with manipulative people, and the whole gas-lighting thing? I mean, how is it that these people can turn normal intelligent educated people into self-doubting, angry and feeling like they're losing their grip on sanity? What's their hook, and how do you prevent oneself from being manipulated by these types? More importantly, how do I teach my kids to protect themselves from the likes of their father?
 :huh:

'FORGET "I should", forget it all. Replace it by "I LOVE TO DO ...." and skip completely the TIME issue. If you need five lives to accomplish what you WANT, let this be the first of those five. And then, without any "time obligation" or "should stressing" - start it.  First step first. And ENJOY it. And LOVE yourself - take care of yourself.
This is the only thing that the Universe (God?) wants from you, I think.'  Arkadiusz Jadczyk