Age and The Work

J

Jimbo

Padawan Learner
A question arose in my widdle brain today. It was something like; "Would age on one side of the spectrum or the other (old age-elderly/teenager) affect your ability to carry out The Work?" On both spectrums, personal interaction (not usually having a job and/or being fully out in the 'real world' [secluded to one age group or the other usually{?}]) is limited. Also, on both sides of the spectrum, there's physical and emotional changes taking place. What advice should be given if there was an interest to start The Work at such stages if they displayed a sincere interest to begin?
 
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that what is pertinent is whether a person is interested in doing the Work and actualizes that interest by getting started of their own free will.
 
I agree Mark. Trying to 'sell' the Work to others can be counterproductive from both points of view. If a person is really interested in the Work, they will be drawn naturally (magnetically?) towards a suitable opportunity to begin.
 
What is age? Is it age of our physical vehicles at any particular time, or is it our souls?

I'm not sure if people can tell how 'old' they are 'soulwise' as this may relate to the number of lifetimes they have had. And it may be possible for one person to 'learn' something in one lifetime that takes another several lifetimes to conquer. But then again, I'm not really sure what constitutes 'work' either, so, I'll just keep my eyes and ears open and try to 'see' what happens...
 
good comments. I was just not sure if there was a certain amount of limitation because of age. Primarily what I was referring to is personal interaction being limited somewhat. But now it makes sense that if someone has the sincere desire to start, they won't let that little tid-bit hold them back. And if they would have specific questions or concerns, there's always the forum. Thanks guys, Ill try and think a little more silently next time.
 
Jimbo said:
good comments. I was just not sure if there was a certain amount of limitation because of age. Primarily what I was referring to is personal interaction being limited somewhat. But now it makes sense that if someone has the sincere desire to start, they won't let that little tid-bit hold them back. And if they would have specific questions or concerns, there's always the forum. Thanks guys, Ill try and think a little more silently next time.
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Hi Jimbo, I don't know that there is a need to 'think silently' in this case. As far as youth is concerned, Gurdjieff spoke often of the 'age of responsibility' - when one becomes responsible for owns life/learning/actions - yet, he also spent quite a lot of time privately teaching Fritz Peters at the Priory when Fritz was a child, so it very well (and probably does) come down to the person or the circumstance. Perhaps this is yet another situation in which the Law of Three applies.

I guess the quick answer, as others have pointed out, is 'it depends'. ;)
 
My mother was in her fifites when she came to the Work. I was in my late twenties. My current teacher met her teacher when she was 18. Each age presents its own obstacles to turning life on its head so that I can begin to live the right way round.

I think that with age, unless I keep Working on myself, I crystallise more and more behaviours, they become more and more fixed in me as a result of repetition. I am either participating in an ascending octave or in an octave of degeneration. There is no standstill.

Someone once said to me that the age at which I encounter the Work depends on my efforts last time round.
 
Vivitskaia said:
My current teacher met her teacher ...
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Could you please elaborate a little on your teachers? Networking is a good way to exchange information in kinda like a study hall environment. And like being in a class room environment, we get to discuss each others theories and observations and thoughts on a variety of subjects. But me ears kinda perked up upon useage of the teacher word. What do they teach? Just curious here...

edited for obvious typing errors
 
I agree with others that say it depends.

Life has started "throwing" work material at me pretty early. But despite that it took me long years to start doing anything about it.

At 17 I ran into Ouspensky "New model of Universe", did only selective reading, was more for an entertainment. Used it to cheat on "ethics" exam in university by using his example about "bees & ants". At same age read Daniel Andreev "Rose of the world". At 20 even ran into CASSIOPAEA & Wave series (it was around year 2000, and at the time I though you guys were nuts). Was preoccupied with personal/material life for about 5 years.
After things started make no sense to me in life and felt something was missing, I've "became" indigo for 3 months, then "wonderer" for 2 months. Then figured out something is not right about it, went on further search and re-discovered CASSIOPAEA again.

Despite all the hints given, it took me about 8 years before I've started considering work.

So, to answer the question about age & work, I'd say whenever you are ready for it.
 
The last chapter (unfinished) of Gurdjieff's "Life Is Only Real When I AM" discusses some things about age and aging. It is quite interesting and I'm going to include a big chunk of it here:

THE OUTER AND INNER WORLD OF MAN

Although the subject which I intend to elucidate by means of the text of this chapter of the last book of my writings is entirely lacking in the mentation of contemporary people, there nevertheless flows from the ignorance of the meaning of this subject the greatest part, if not all, of the misunderstandings which take place in the process of our common life.

Not only do the causes of almost all the misunderstandings of our common life flow from the lack of understanding of the significance of the given subject, but also exclusively in it are contained all the answers to the possibility of solving the chief problem of our existence.

That is, thanks alone to the recognition and all-round understanding of the sense and significance of this subject is it possible to solve the problem of the prolongation of human life.

Before beginning the further development of this question, I wish to cite the contents of an ancient manuscript with which I accidentally became acquainted in quite exceptional life circumstances.
This very ancient manuscript, the contents of which I intend to make use of, is one of those relics which is handed down from generation to generation by a very limited number of people, that is, by "Initiates"— not such "initiates," however, as have been multiplying recently in Europe, but genuine ones. In this case, by "Initiates" of an esoteric sect which still exists at the present time in one of the remote corners of Central Asia.

The text of this manuscript is expounded, as was done in antiquity, "podobolizovany," in the form of symbolizing, or, as it is called in esoteric science, "making alike," that is, allegorically —quite different from the form now established for mentation among contemporary people.

As the difference between these forms is very well-known to me, of course also accidentally, I will endeavor to transmit the sense of this text as exactly as possible but in agreement with the form of mentation now established among contemporary people.

This ancient manuscript says the following:

The general psyche of every man on reaching maturity, which begins on an average in the male sex at twenty years and in the female sex at the beginning of the thirteenth year, consists of three totalities of functioning which have almost nothing in common with each other.

The course of action of all three of these independent totalities of functioning in the common presence of a man who has attained maturity takes place simultaneously and incessantly.

All the factors making up and producing these three totalities of functioning begin, and cease, to form in man at different periods of his life.

The factors producing in man the first totality of functioning, unless special measures are employed, are formed, as has been established long ago, only in childhood—in boys on an average until the age of eleven years, and in girls until the age of seven.

The factors producing the second totality of functioning begin to form in boys from the age of nine years, and in girls even from the age of four years, lasting in different cases a different length of time, approximately until the attainment of maturity.

And factors producing the third totality begin to form from the attainment of maturity, continuing in the average man at present only until the age of sixty, and in woman only until the age of forty-five.

But in the case of people who have consciously perfected themselves to the so-called "all-centers-awake state," that is, to the state of being able in their waking state to think and feel on their own initiative, these factors still continue to form in man until the age of three hundred years and in woman until the age of two hundred.

The forming of all the factors for the functionings of these three entirely separate totalities of functioning proceeds in people in accordance also with the universal law of "threefoldness."

For the formation of factors of the first totality, there serve as the "anode beginning," on the one hand, all kinds of involuntarily perceived outer impressions and, on the other hand, impressions resulting from so-called "all-centered dozing"; and as the "cathode beginning" there serve the results of reflexes of the organism, chiefly of those organs having an hereditary particularity.

For the formation of the factors of the second totality, there serve as the "anode beginning" outer impressions taken in under a certain pressure and having thereby the character of being intentionally implanted from outside, and as the "cathode beginning" the results of the functioning of factors formed from impressions of a similar kind previously perceived.

The factors of the third totality of functionings are formed from the results of "contemplation," that is, from results received from the "voluntary contact" of the factors of the first two totalities, for which moreover the results of the second totality serve as the "anode beginning" and the results of the first totality serve as the "cathode."

One of the properties of such an actualization of all three separate totalities of functionings producing the general psyche of man is that which, by combinations of the "voluntary contact" of the actions of these three independent totalities of functioning, causes to proceed in one of them the imprintation of those processes proceeding in the other totalities, as well as those proceeding outside of the given man which happen to fall into the sphere of the subjective action of his organs of perception.

The part of this property found in the common presence of man, ordinarily perceived by people, is that which is called "attention."

The degree of sensitivity of the manifestation of this property or, as otherwise defined by ancient science, "the strength of embrace" of this "attention" depends entirely upon the so-called "gradation of the total state" of a given man.

For the definition of this property in man, which is called "attention," there is, by the way, found also in ancient science the following verbal formulation:

"THE DEGREE OF BLENDING OF THAT WHICH IS THE SAME IN THE IMPULSES OF OBSERVATION AND CONSTATATION IN ONE TOTALITY'S PROCESSES WITH THAT OCCURRING IN OTHER TOTALITIES."
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This above-mentioned "gradation of the total state" of man extends, as science formulates it, from the strongest subjective intensity of "self-sensation" to the greatest established "self-losing."

That totality always becomes the initiating factor for the realization of a common function of the three separate totalities which represent the general psyche of man in which at the given moment this "gradation of the total state" has its center of gravity.
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I have cited this at-first-glance fantastic hypothesis of our distant ancestors at the beginning of the illumination of the given question, first, because it can be a very good starting point for what follows, and second, because my own attempts to make clear to myself the true significance of just this hypothesis have led me to the conclusions which I wish to impart to my readers in the present chapter.

From the contents of this ancient "fantastic" scientific assumption, that which intrigued me personally, during the course of many years, was chiefly the mentioned verbal formulation, "The degree of blending of that which is the same in the impulses of observation and constatation in one totality's processes with that occurring in other totalities."

Though attaching great significance to everything else in this hypothesis, I could by no means understand the meaning expressed in this verbal formulation.

Especially was I intrigued by the words, "that which is the same." What is "sameness"? Why "sameness"? For what purpose this peculiar "sameness"?

Even that idea, "absurd" for all contemporary scientists, that there proceed in man simultaneously three associations of independent nature, did not surprise me, and I accepted it with a feeling of great respect for the knowledge of ancient people.

And it did not surprise me because previously, at the time of my special verifications of what seemingly pertains to the psyche of man, carried out with the aid of all sorts of experimental means attained by contemporary civilization, chiefly by means of the science of "hypnotism," I noted and firmly established that there flow simultaneously in man three kinds of associations—of thought, of feeling and of mechanical instinct.

Most important of all is that not only do the three kinds of independent associations flow simultaneously, but also there participate in all of them the results of the three sources found in man for the transformation of the three natures of so-called "cosmic vivifyingness."

These sources are located in man as follows: the first, in a part of the brain, the second, in a part of the spinal column; and the third, in a part of the solar plexus.

These three kinds of associations in one man explain that peculiar sensation, noticed at times by everyone, as though there were several beings living in him. Those who wish to acquaint themselves more fully with these questions are advised to learn, that is, not simply to read but to immerse themselves in, that chapter of the first series of my writings entitled "The Holy Planet Purgatory."

On reading over what has just been written, there involuntarily arises in me the question as to which must appear to the reader more fantastic: that which I myself have written, or the hypothesis of our distant ancestors which I have cited.

It seems to me that every reader on first comparing them will find the one as bad as the other. A little later he will blame only me, that I, in spite of living in this period of civilization, should write such nonsense.
He will forgive the ancestors, however, as he is able to put himself into their position, and with the reason proper to him will argue approximately thus:

"How were they to blame that in their time our civilization had not yet existed? And once having become learned, they too had to occupy themselves with something. And for a fact, at that time, not one electrical machine existed, even of the simplest sort."
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Not having been able to restrain myself, and once again having bared one of my weaknesses, consisting in, as is said, "cracking a joke" at the most serious moments of my writings, I wish to take advantage of this incidental digression from the basic theme to describe a very peculiar coincidence which took place a few days ago, in connection with the writing of this last book of mine.
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My teachers are those individuals who have shown me the steps leading to the Way. They have been able to do this because they have taken each step before me. Their names are not important. Seek and you shall find. If you have not found that which resonates with you, keep seeking.
 
In general, when someone asks a sincere question, and it is answered by being turned aside, that indicates that the person who answers in such a way has not yet learned the principle of giving to those who ask.
 
There are several teachers, group leaders and people who know the steps to the Way. Each one of us needs to seek out that which resonates with something that I already have inside me. To give the names of my teachers can be misleading. If something in me resonates with you, it may be different.

This is why I have embarked on this communication.

Fifth striving: "the striving always to assist the most rapid perfecting of other beings, both those similar to oneself and those of other forms, up to the degree of the sacred ‘Martfotai’ that is up to the degree of self-individuality." G.I. Gurdjieff

With good wishes,

Vivitskaia
 
Vivitskaia said:
There are several teachers, group leaders and people who know the steps to the Way. Each one of us needs to seek out that which resonates with something that I already have inside me. To give the names of my teachers can be misleading. If something in me resonates with you, it may be different.

This is why I have embarked on this communication.

Fifth striving: "the striving always to assist the most rapid perfecting of other beings, both those similar to oneself and those of other forms, up to the degree of the sacred ‘Martfotai’ that is up to the degree of self-individuality." G.I. Gurdjieff

With good wishes,

Vivitskaia
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Hi Vivitskaia, this sounds as if you have come here to find 'students' - is that the case?
 
No.

I am here to make contact with other sincere seekers so that we can assist each other on the Way.

There are not many people in the world who are willing to read and study Beelzebub's Tales. Those who do will be transformed by it. I wish to know such people.

I have studied Beelzebub's Tales and the esoteric teaching reformulated by Gurdjieff for some time. I am a little more familiar with Beelzebub's Tales than I was. Perhaps I can assist someone in finding their way round it? Perhaps you can assist me by asking questions?

I live in the UK where I Work with my husband. I regularly travel to Work gatherings around the world. I hope to get to know also you.

Wishing you well,

Vivitskaia
 
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