Another kind of inner "heating"?

[Psalehesost]

At a relatively early point (sometime spring or early summer 2008) in my time here at this forum, something occurred: I came across the Thinking with a Hammer entry at the Esoteric Glossary. In particular, this text struck me in a particular way:

[...] The hammer also implies hammering against one's beliefs and prejudices, creating internal friction by being critical of the thought process itself. Thinking with a hammer is in a sense the opposite of habitual thinking. Thinking with a hammer means forging new paths and connections as opposed to forcing things to fit within the grooves of existing categories. It is expanding one's mind to be at the measure of the questions instead of shrinking the questions to fit the mind's habits. Thinking with a hammer cannot take place in a state of sleep. It needs an application of will and going against one's internal resistance.

I somehow instantly got a vague "idea" of a "process" or "action".

Then, I read somewhere in a thread on the forum a post (this going by my memory) where a text was quoted and commented on, the quoted piece of text - by an exorcist - noting how people make themselves vulnerable by not truly accepting that there actually exists evil things, and having a tendency to not accept responsibility for themselves and their actions, thus opening up to the risk of unconsciously attempting to "pass the buck" for themselves and letting something take over and do nasty things through them. (I could be somewhat wrong about the gist of this point, it being quite some time since I read it) The one who posted the quote then noted thinking that it was something to Think with a Hammer about.

By that time, I had not read nearly as much (scarcely anything about the Work), and didn't know the definition of Thinking with a Hammer as noted elsewhere being about emotion and "heating" through the proper handling - free from program interference - of negative emotions, and the idea of shocks.

So, prompted by that post I'd read, I decided to put into practice that vague "idea" I'd got. And so, I did something I'd already been doing by then, "seeing through" a specific program as it works - and having thus at the same time within my head the program activity as well as an abstract understanding (coupled with a vague, automatic "visualization" thereof) of how the program is wrong, and counter reaction, and so on. But this time, I did something new. I thought this time about the subject of responsibility, and programs engaged, and I pushed against with my understanding of how things should be, as well as the seeing through the program - my awareness. And I "pushed" hard with my mind, the two activities - one of them the program - grinding against each other increasingly hard. And I kept at it. And my started getting "warm" in a place. And warmer and warmer it got; it felt sort of strange - and the program activity "melted away" so to say - it became increasingly formless and faded, and then it was calm. And then I walked around for a while with my warmified head wondering just what the heck this meant. The sensation gradually ceased, though something remained changed. And in similar ways, I would come to "grind" my insight into a specific part of my program activity against said specific part of my program activity several times. Over a couple of months, this changed my mind insofar as there was less mechanical activity going on - less simultaneous tracks of "I"s - even when "asleep". Though it in no way made me wake up by itself. But it "cleaned up" my head significantly, and made later work and observation easier, for it became easier and easier to see "further" into myself, since it was no longer like a jungle, random "activity" becoming less "thick".

As I read more and understood more and saw that it was different from what is here termed Thinking with a Hammer, I began wondering for a bit about this practice of mine. Was I messing myself up? What if I was "crystallizing" in a wrong way? But I could notice no problem, and my mind seemed to become clearer, if anything. I realized, though, that it was only part of what I needed to do; I still had to work in order to "wake up" and get rid of assumptions and remaining programs, and if it had - as it seemed - improved my being, then it was clearly just the thinking center I had changed. Emotionally, I was still rather much asleep and my "I"s a demented insanity soup sometimes inert, sometimes bubbling beneath the surface, and physically, not really in touch or working with my body and the awareness thereof.

Going forward, summing up several months and the latest developments of my work (seems to have entered a new phase recently), this "heating" occurred in a new way once in a while - spontaneously. I'd be thinking about something and trying to self-observer deeply, and then a strong focus of energy would go "up" (unlike usual, where the heating began, took place and ended in the head) into the head and toast away at whatever rather strongly, my eyes feeling immensely irritated in the process (and at first it was hard to keep them open; became easier as I kept at it). Milder forms of more or less spontaneous heating also took place. For periods of variable lengths, "heating up" somewhat in the course of self-observing and thinking about the stuff I was presently reading - sometimes in the middle of reading it - and trying to understand the concepts fully became a near-daily occurrence.

More recently, slightly peculiar experiences began to take place; I'd think and introspect hard, and become strongly focused, begin to "heat up" somewhat (often occurred mildly without resulting in anything discernible), and my vision would begin to get somewhat "grainy" - tiny, random grains of differing luminosity. This intensifies temporarily and then fades away. I also sometimes see colors - like those seen when squeezing your closed eyes for a bit - overlayed on top of my vision. Mostly a deep blue-ish color, sometimes a bit purple. A few other times I've also seen a yellowish-orangeish tinting of my vision. And sometimes portions of my vision - for example, when I look at my wall - look as if they are slightly "bulging" alternatively (both in time and speaking of adjacent ones) inwards and outwards.

Today, something unprecedented happened; (I should mention firstly that over time, my emotional center seems slowly to be waking up, and I am otherwise improving in my "awareness" of myself, OSIT) as I was lying down and trying to detach from the program reactions going on in the back of my head, mechanically providing semi-abstract imagery and thoughts - what goes for my mechanical inner babbling these days now that the mechanical language-thinking has decreased a whole lot - I "reached" and "focused" with what non-identified awareness I had, but this time in a more whole-body way, doing this activity - it seems to me - using not only the intellectual center, but also the emotional -, I "warmed" up the very back of my head and increasingly - downwards - my spine. Later on, I think I did something analogous (based roughly on an abstract mental connection between the "contractions" of program-identifications and those of muscles) analogue with the moving center, and the result was a heating of my legs and back, then engaged in muscular movement.

So, what do you think? Is this particular noodle-baking practice of mine (and more than so as of late) beneficial and a legitimate practice, or have I unknowingly done something horrible to myself, becoming what you would term a baked noodle? Is it something that others - if appropriate, that is - do and/or could do, as well? I've sort of wondered about this for months, but never came around to posting about it, not sure if it would be noise or whether it could be a meaningful contribution, and as if often the case regarding the idea of posting something here, soon began to feel rather "unsure".

Well, here I go...

 

[kenlee]

As I read more and understood more and saw that it was different from what is here termed Thinking with a Hammer, I began wondering for a bit about this practice of mine.

You might be getting somewhat complicated in your observations. It might be a good idea to stay as practical as you can with your observations and don’t lose sight of the fundamental idea you started with which is about "thinking with a hammer” and what that means.

For me “thinking with a hammer” is a very practical idea. I understand it in terms of making constant efforts to consciously question, and breaking apart, my own beliefs about myself (and how I see the world) back into their basic constituent elements. In a way I think our beliefs are these elements "stuck together” from lazy passive, automatic thinking that must be broken back down by hammering them back down, where one's entire Being participates in this breaking down process (which also involves much ‘intentional suffering').

Reading your above comments I think you kinda got lost a bit much in your imagination resulting in a phantasm of mental imagery and thoughts mixed with physical sensations. Just because they are thoughts doesn’t necessarily mean its thinking!

My advice would be to stay focused on the original idea you started with which is all about thinking with a hammer and what that means. As you contemplate the idea, and if you make it your aim to better understand this idea, then you can ask yourself whether the thoughts that you are thinking in relation to that idea are useful in understanding it better or not. You can then reject those extraneous thoughts that might enter your mind from your momentary lapses of conscious attention which don't relate to your central aim. This will help you from going off into your imagination and then having your imagination (in this case your mechanical associative mechanism) thinking for you where you can get lost in your automatic associations that steer you away from the central idea.

Just reading about how Gurdjieff thinks about things in the book In Search Of The Miraculous can also help the reader to ‘think rightly’ on many things as well and, imo, if you want to use your imagination rightly (since you have read ISOTM) then you can use your imagination to imagine what Gurdjieff might say about what “thinking with a hammer” means. That might be a good way of using our imagination. I know it's helped me to use my imagination in this way.

 

[Psalehesost]

As I read more and understood more and saw that it was different from what is here termed Thinking with a Hammer, I began wondering for a bit about this practice of mine.

You might be getting somewhat complicated in your observations. It might be a good idea to stay as practical as you can with your observations and don’t lose sight of the fundamental idea you started with which is about "thinking with a hammer” and what that means.

For me “thinking with a hammer” is a very practical idea. I understand it in terms of making constant efforts to consciously question, and breaking apart, my own beliefs about myself (and how I see the world) back into their basic constituent elements. In a way I think our beliefs are these elements "stuck together” from lazy passive, automatic thinking that must be broken back down by hammering them back down, where one's entire Being participates in this breaking down process (which also involves much ‘intentional suffering').

The basic idea remains, and when it comes to this "idea", there is little in the way of theory; sometimes, upon identifying a program, seeing through and successfully "detaching" (if not already being so) from it, I just sort-of "know" that I can bring about a sort of conscious (relatively speaking, that is) opposition that is hard to further describe to it - and then I simply do so.

For example, some days ago, I realized that I was identified with an abstract "idea" of being a "person". (I noticed a program resistance to the idea, which I briefly toyed with, of ceasing to see myself as a "person") I then realized that being an Individual - my goal - does not necessitate being a "person", and that this "idea" of "person" was subjective and arbitrary gibberish, something belonging purely to the personality. And then I brought about this "resistance" to this "I", and the program gradually dissolved. It was like becoming free of an arbitrary little "border" set up inside of my mind, limiting what I can consciously examine and subtly "reacting" to anything threatening its notion by causing me to "dislike" and push the thought away. (a buffer?)

Reading your above comments I think you kinda got lost a bit much in your imagination resulting in a phantasm of mental imagery and thoughts mixed with physical sensations. Just because they are thoughts doesn’t necessarily mean its thinking!

Rereading the next-last paragraph of my previous post, I don't really know what to make of it all. Speaking in general, though, I'm trying to limit imagination, and having got rid of the bulk of mechanical word-babbling in my mind, I'm now trying to get rid of the mechanical image-babbling and mechanical abstract-babbling. Perhaps I have buffers related to the last of these kinds of "thinking" that makes it hard to truly discern it, allowing it to contaminate my thinking process. (as for mental imagery, I seem to be making gradual progress getting more of a grip on it. it wasn't this, by the way, that was seen across my field of vision - that happened/happens automatically following prolonged, intense focus of a certain kind. maybe this is a peculiarity of part of my brain analogous to how, in graphics cards, visual artifacts can result as processing begins to go slightly wrong in an overclocked and overheated graphics processor?)

As for what I noted in my previous post about my "work" having entered a new phase recently, by this - so as to clarify - I don't refer to the perceptual distortions, but rather having peeled away unusually much on that onion of layers upon layers of programming, having got rid of many subtle reactions that used to go on all the time, and having gained more "clarity" and perspective than before. But I guess it is as usual - the work goes in stages: first, I make a noticeable improvement; second, I begin to think I've truly made a major achievement; third, the fact that there's yet another layer of gunk I'm oblivious to begins ever so subtly to smack me in the face until I get it; four, I try to work - aimlessly at first, without really knowing what I am to discover next - to become aware. (five, go back to one)

My advice would be to stay focused on the original idea you started with which is all about thinking with a hammer and what that means. As you contemplate the idea, and if you make it your aim to better understand this idea, then you can ask yourself whether the thoughts that you are thinking in relation to that idea are useful in understanding it better or not. You can then reject those extraneous thoughts that might enter your mind from your momentary lapses of conscious attention which don't relate to your central aim. This will help you from going off into your imagination and then having your imagination (in this case your mechanical associative mechanism) thinking for you where you can get lost in your automatic associations that steer you away from the central idea.

A small part of myself - including some of the "I"s that took part in formulating my first message in this thread, has a bunch of ideas, pointless worries (based on the thought-process of "What if ___?") and so on, but another part of myself - that which "does" the Hammering - knows better, and judges by experience and something that seems a sort of semi-instinctual insight; that, by the way, is what the "original idea" seems to be, and it seems to be there to stay.

Indeed, most of the things I "do" in my Work I end up doing as a result of some sort of "inspiration" of the moment. One moment I suddenly get an idea of doing something that seems to lie beyond the usual "thinking", and then I just "do" (Do?) it. With good results - suddenly seeing new things in myself, "Hammering" away and changing the workings of my mind, "struggling" to fully get an idea and coming to a new nsight, and so on.

Just reading about how Gurdjieff thinks about things in the book In Search Of The Miraculous can also help the reader to ‘think rightly’ on many things as well and, imo, if you want to use your imagination rightly (since you have read ISOTM) then you can use your imagination to imagine what Gurdjieff might say about what “thinking with a hammer” means. That might be a good way of using our imagination. I know it's helped me to use my imagination in this way.

That's a thought.

Previously, I've once in a while imagined posting questions I had at the time to this forum and the answer I'd get - which sometimes turned out to be a definite, simple common sense answer and something which I really should have known, which is probably why I was able to come up with said answer myself.


Thanks for a bit of perspective.

 

[anart]

Hi Csayeursost,

Perhaps one thing you might consider is whether you see yourself as others see you. The Work, done in isolation, is not the Work. There are aspects of yourself that you cannot see - yet you seem to be convinced that you are doing certain things or making progress in certain ways simply because it seems to you to be so, when, perhaps - it is not as it seems.

This is just food for thought, because the person we see ourselves to be is almost certainly not the person we are - which is why a network is so vital when doing the Work - we can only see certain limited aspects of ourselves. It takes others who are trustworthy to see the aspects we really hide from ourselves. fwiw.

 

[Psalehesost]

Hi Csayeursost,

Perhaps one thing you might consider is whether you see yourself as others see you.

Probably not; at least not to a large extent.

This seems to be taking quite some time wrapping my head around in a concrete way... [I wrote that having tried and failed to come up with something more for some time]
It can be thought of on several levels: if you refer mainly to my opinion of myself - the general view held - compared to that others have of me, then given that I don't have any consistent or concrete opinion of myself (except for whatever - probably a lot of - programming I remain unaware of), it is hard to come up with any better answer than "very likely not". If it refers to my immediate perception of "how I am" while interacting with people compared to theirs of me, then I have some vague and no doubt very incomplete and imperfect picture of it based on my limited ability to externally consider (and I hardly claim to be good yet at it), based on comparing the results of that external considering with whatever my personality thinks at the moment, then taking in mind what I think I know of my ability to externally consider. Going by this, I would say that it matches as far as some general features of my way of interacting goes, but that I am no doubt missing a lot of details and having a more or less skewed view.

Then there is also a lot of "me" that others generally don't have any idea of at all, given that I interact little with people, and that only a small part of my inner world generally finds outward expression. (though there are a few people who know me to a relatively large extent) Though said "inner world" has become significantly plainer nowadays, with less talk, less images, less music, less fantasy, less likes and dislikes, less desires, less identity, and so on.

The Work, done in isolation, is not the Work. There are aspects of yourself that you cannot see - yet you seem to be convinced that you are doing certain things or making progress in certain ways simply because it seems to you to be so, when, perhaps - it is not as it seems.

This is just food for thought, because the person we see ourselves to be is almost certainly not the person we are - which is why a network is so vital when doing the Work - we can only see certain limited aspects of ourselves. It takes others who are trustworthy to see the aspects we really hide from ourselves. fwiw.

I guess my work is not Work; I thought so earlier, and even noted having read G. saying as such (regarding solitary work) in my introduction - I can't help feeling a little bit silly about these posts, though were it not for my "work" (I'll refer to it as such - in quotation marks - for now, from now on) I'd probably have been outright embarrassed (as it is now, I no longer care or worry much about making a fool of myself, which is why I am now more able to readily post). It seems to me that I am improving in certain aspects, yes - for example, I am no longer (except for rare, brief moments of milder recurrence) an internally gibbering neurotic wreck. But I also know that I have improved little or not at all in many aspects, and that there ones I don't even know of.

In asking one of my parents about said person thought my "chief fault", I got the answer that while I can interact with people, I simply am not interested in them and so don't care about being with them and seem to respond in annoyance whenever someone tries to get my attention when I am focusing on anything else or being by myself, which I am most of the time. No doubt there is a lot to work on in the social department and regarding external considering, among other things. As for something that seems to have changed as observed by another (earlier by said parent), I seem to speak better - not as tense and, I guess, less awkwardly.

Well, here is a network - which is why I'm here (on the forum). But actually engaging in the networking...

To truly Work using the network, I guess you (plural) would need something to give feedback on, so as to get an exchange of information. Perhaps this can make for some sort of starting point...?

I thought several times before in the past months about making a post consisting of a pile of thoughts regarding myself and my present situation and how I relate to the world and others and see what (and I have no set expectations) you'd make of it. Good idea?

[And so was the post finished after over three hours.]

 

[anart]

I guess my work is not Work

Well, I wouldn't say that it has not benefited you.

I'd probably have been outright embarrassed (as it is now, I no longer care or worry much about making a fool of myself, which is why I am now more able to readily post). It seems to me that I am improving in certain aspects, yes - for example, I am no longer (except for rare, brief moments of milder recurrence) an internally gibbering neurotic wreck.

Right, so the self-observation part seems to be working - which is a huge thing, no question.

I thought several times before in the past months about making a post consisting of a pile of thoughts regarding myself and my present situation and how I relate to the world and others and see what (and I have no set expectations) you'd make of it. Good idea?

Just remember that this is a public forum, so keep personal details to a minimum if you decide to do that. Also, just posting in general about your understanding of things can really go a long way toward getting feedback about where blind spots might be and where you might need to focus some attention, so it is usually quite worthwhile.