Are small business ISPs being starved out?

[dant]

I have been with an DSL Internet Service Provider (#1) for 5
years and until a year ago, this ISP could no longer renew
their contract with Verizon/Frontier. It was my understanding
that it was related to static IP addresses and cost.

So I had to scramble to find a new DSL ISP provider (#2), found
one, and rejoined the Internet but it took a month to get Verizon/
Frontier to get their circuits set up.

I was doing ok for at least a year and I find out that my current ISP
is faced with the exact same problem, they could not renew their contract
with Verizon/Frontier. Again, they are scrambling and telling their customers
the bad news.

But it is interesting that for these two Small Business DSL ISPs, they
are able to continue their business with a competitor (CenturyLink)
phone company but for those who use the DSL service in V/F, too bad!

At this time, I (as far as I can see) may no longer get DSL static IP
addresses and my website will be down & terminated(?).

Perhaps this is a pattern - "Big fish eats small Fish"

*sigh*

 

[mcb]

Do you actually need to run your own server?

 

[doublea1535]

As a small ISP (one part of what we do) yes, the carrier's / LECs push back on smaller ISPs in lots of little ways. They want every broadband customer to be their customer. We often have our customers report to us that CenturyLink has tried to talk into cancelling with us and going direct with them. Or in some cases, they will say the customer cannot get better speeds or services, but hey, if you move to CL things would be different.

I don't know what the exact problems your ISP's had, but they should've been able to apply directly to ARIN for their own BGP ASN and IPv4 address space. Then they could've peered with Verizon using their own IP space.

Additionally, at some point IPv4 will go away and you will have more IPv6 (public) addresses then you will know what to do with. My guess, is about 5 years, but I haven't been tracking the depletion rate lately.

 

[dant]

Do you actually need to run your own server?

Of course. I have DNS, Email, Website, and others.
I prefer to do this without ISP meddling!

 

[dant]

@ignis.intimu s

I have had a difficult time locating a DSL ISP provider using
Frontier and it seems that the list has gotten smaller and smaller
since the last time I scrambled for a new DSL ISP as I am doing
now. How can you bypass Frontier being the only Telco for my
area from which DSL requires your area Landline?

This is frustrating! Grrrr.

 

[mcb]

Do you actually need to run your own server?

Of course. I have DNS, Email, Website, and others.
I prefer to do this without ISP meddling!

If it is only a matter of preference then it seems like the only reason your website would be "down and terminated" would be if you chose to do that. If there is something on your website or in your email that an ISP might be inclined to meddle with then I could understand. Otherwise, I suspect that a web hosting service would be cheaper than a fixed IP, perhaps by far, and generally less trouble, especially with you losing the ISP periodically.

The service I use costs around $6 per month paid ahead every 2 years, plus the cost of my three domain names. I have PHP, MySQL, email, subdomains, and some ability to edit DNS records. In 15 years of having a personal website I have never needed my own server for personal use. Work is a different matter.

 

[dant]

Ok, I think I have solved my issue.

There is a new DSL technology that basically is a dedicated
line held exclusively by the ISP (Megapath) and it completely
bypasses the local phone company using SSI technology.
Say goodbye to Frontier, Verizon! :p

Former bill (rounded):
- Frontier: $30 LL (phone) + $38 DSL Circuit (3M/768k) = $68/mo
- ISP: $30
============
$98/mo.

New bill (Megapath): $75/mo. (saved $23/mo)
Free modem, setup, phone, 5 static IPs

I think I will be ok now, more calmer today than when I posted initially!

 

[doublea1535]

Glad you solved it. I have never heard of SSI and am not really finding anything online about it. I was going to mention it sounds like Frontier is just an ISP reselling Verizon (ILEC) DSL services. For DSL I am only aware of two other options, in some cases other companies really have run their own cabling/fiber, but AFAIK this is just in really new and upscale neighborhoods. The other option, and what I believe is going on with MegaPath is that they are a CLEC. If that is the case, the phone line you are using is still owned by Verizon, except at the Central Office your line is then connected into a DSLAM owned by MegaPath, and then into the MegaPath (probably COVAD) backbone. MegaPath rents the copper line from Verizon and resells it to you basically.

 

[mcb]

...I think I will be ok now, more calmer today than when I posted initially!

So you were trying to "calm" yourself by posting this?

I don't mind one way or the other if you have a server hobby (my guess based on what you have shared so far), and I can understand that it is good news to you that you won't have to give it up. What I don't understand so far is what this has to do with the function of this particular forum. You have lost me there.

 

[dant]

I was perturbed when I wrote, initially thinking that Frontier
was systematically attempting to eliminate small business
ISPs, hence the "Our Orwellian World" category, but when
ignis.intimu s explained the situation, I understood the technial
idea and it led the way to a solution. Thanks IIS!

Perhaps this thread no longer belongs here, but in any case
it solved my issue, calmed me down, and maybe, just maybe
others may learn from this? Dunno.

There has been threads like this before - technical issues, helping
one another... so this thread is similar - but I had dark thoughts
and it raised my anger because I went through this at least 5 time
before and it is no picnic. Hopefully, this new ISP will be my last.

 

[mcb]

I was perturbed when I wrote, initially thinking that Frontier
was systematically attempting to eliminate small business
ISPs, hence the "Our Orwellian World" category, but when
ignis.intimu s explained the situation, I understood the technial
idea and it led the way to a solution. Thanks IIS!

Perhaps this thread no longer belongs here, but in any case
it solved my issue, calmed me down, and maybe, just maybe
others may learn from this? Dunno.

There has been threads like this before - technical issues, helping
one another... so this thread is similar - but I had dark thoughts
and it raised my anger because I went through this at least 5 time
before and it is no picnic. Hopefully, this new ISP will be my last.

Perhaps. I found what both of you wrote rather hard to read, and I never did come to understand the larger context for the issue. Maybe since this has happened 5 times before it would be worthwhile to you to present it in a way that could open the discussion to a wider audience. "Hoping" that it will not happen again does not sound like a very promising strategy.

In any case, I am glad you solved your problem.

 

[ocean59]

"Hoping" that it will not happen again does not sound like a very promising strategy.

I would imagine this is the reason dant chose to network about it here, rather than just hoping.

I think the dangers of smaller ISPs disappearing due to pressure form bigger corporations is rather obvious. Just as Wal-mart eats local businesses for breakfast, so does Verizon, etc. It is well known that these larger ISP/telephone companies 'pipe' their data through government monitoring and observation checkpoints, therefore this is quite an appropriate topic for this board imo.

If we no longer get to choose our ISP, if all competition is eliminated, it is one step towards (what may likely be) an inevitable future level of internet 'control.'

I found what both of you wrote rather hard to read

Yet, rather than attempt to understand the issue, you immediately started cross-examining dant and his motivations for his post. This doesn't seem like a proper approach to understanding what is being discussed. You weren't asking questions like "I'm sorry, but I don't understand what is important about this. Could you explain it to me?" but rather "Do you actually need to run your own server?" and "So you were trying to "calm" yourself by posting this?" which wouldn't really make sense, if you didn't understand what was being discussed.

If the issue is really that "What I don't understand so far is what this has to do with the function of this particular forum. You have lost me there." and "it would be worthwhile to you to present it in a way that could open the discussion to a wider audience." maybe you could have just asked those questions earlier? As it reads to me, you were trying to 'shoot the posters down' first, and then trying to 'understand the situation' later. Fwiw.

 

[mcb]

I found what both of you wrote rather hard to read

Yet, rather than attempt to understand the issue, you immediately started cross-examining dant and his motivations for his post. This doesn't seem like a proper approach to understanding what is being discussed. You weren't asking questions like "I'm sorry, but I don't understand what is important about this. Could you explain it to me?" but rather "Do you actually need to run your own server?" and "So you were trying to "calm" yourself by posting this?" which wouldn't really make sense, if you didn't understand what was being discussed.

If the issue is really that "What I don't understand so far is what this has to do with the function of this particular forum. You have lost me there." and "it would be worthwhile to you to present it in a way that could open the discussion to a wider audience." maybe you could have just asked those questions earlier? As it reads to me, you were trying to 'shoot the posters down' first, and then trying to 'understand the situation' later. Fwiw.

Your examples are helpful. I think I see what I was doing; it seems to be another aspect of the same "control" issue I am dealing with. Thank you.