Bone demineralization.

Phill4

The Living Force
I had a question about bone demineralization and osteoporosys.

I am not sure if there are articles that can be pointed out about this, older people get it yes, i don't understand the process how one person looses its ability to absorb minerals.

I am interested in the syntesys process of minerals in general.

And maybe well, anything i can gather about it.

I believe i read phosphorus and megnesium deficiency, but i have not been reading diet material in a while , i don't really know.

I was also thinking salt water can help the bones

Thank you all in advance.
 
Doing a search in SOTT.net's database would be a good start. If there is malabsorption and low stomach acidity, the person would be predisposed to osteoporosis. This is why people on proton pump inhibitors often get more fractures and osteoporosis after taking those drugs for several years.

The -osis ending also reflects an inflammatory component. People with autoimmune disease such as Crohn's disease, often have osteoporitic bones.

In bone metabolism, vitamin K and D are also very important.
 
Here's a bit from Dr Carolyn Dean (who wrote the book The Magnesium Miracle):

Magnesium Makes Better Bones

[...] 1. Calcium cannot build bones or prevent osteoporosis without adequate levels of magnesium. If our bones are made entirely from calcium, they become brittle and can shatter, just like a stick of chalk falling on the sidewalk. However, with the right percentage of magnesium, bone has the proper density and matrix that actually makes it flexible and more resistant to shattering.

2. Magnesium, along with vitamin K2, helps direct calcium to the bones, where it belongs.

3. In a 2013 study, Steven A. Abrams, MD, FAAP, professor of pediatrics at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, said, “Calcium is important, but, except for those children and adolescents with very low intakes, may not be more important than magnesium.”

Another 2013 paper tells us how “Magnesium Deficiency Results In An Increased Formation Of Osteoclasts.” The researchers agree with me that magnesium deficiency is common and leads to loss of bone mass, abnormal bone growth and skeletal weakness. They studied osteoclasts (in mice) – the cells that break down bone to help remodel it. Their data suggests that magnesium deficiency alters osteoclast numbers and activity and may contribute to the thinning bones.

It’s of note that osteoclasts are the target of bisphosphonate drugs like Fosamax. These drugs eliminate osteoclasts so that bone no longer breaks down; drug formulators assume that bone will stay stronger if it doesn’t break down but only builds up. However, they ignore the essential remodeling function of these cells. Without osteoclasts, bone cells keep building in a disorganized fashion and create more brittle bones. The fact that magnesium is important for osteoclasts to work properly makes me wonder if bisphosphonates are another set of drugs that target enzymes that require magnesium in order to function.

Of course, bone health requires more than magnesium, more than calcium and more than Vitamin K and Vitamin D (from Blue Ice Royal). Our bones require boron and a host of other minerals [...]

On p. 154 of her book, Dean shows a list of supplements needed for osteoporosis (and how much to take). If you don't have the book I can post it here if you like. I also agree with Gaby that there's a lot of info on Sott.net about osteoporosis that could help.
 
There has also been a connection made with bone health and our gut bacteria. Chris Kresser, a paleo blogger, wrote "The Microbiota and Bone Health: Yet Another Reason to Protect Your Gut" in September 28, 2016. The relevant snippets from his article are below.
The association between gut microbes and bone

One of the key ways that researchers study the effects of the microbiota on an organ system is using mice that don’t have one at all. Called “germ-free” (GF), these mice are born and raised in sterile incubators. Studies of skeletal health in GF mice have found mixed results. In one type of mice, GF mice had reduced bone mass compared with conventionally raised animals, which have a full consortium of microbes (5). In another type of mouse, the GF environment resulted in increased bone mass, while the conventional environment increased measures of bone turnover (6). Although it is difficult to reconcile these contradictory findings, the key feature of both studies was that the mere presence or absence of a microbiota significantly changed the structure of the bone.

Antibiotic models provide further evidence for an association between gut microbes and bone, and the results are much more translational to humans. One study found that exposing mice to subtherapeutic doses of antibiotics at weaning resulted in a significant increase in bone mineral density after three weeks (7). Another study found that animals treated with tylosin, amoxicillin, or a mixture of both had larger bones and a higher bone mineral content than control mice (8). Low-dose antibiotics have long been used in the agricultural industry in animal feed for this very reason; they influence skeletal growth and make for larger, more profitable livestock.

Bone disease is partly heritable and associated with GI disorders

All that nitty-gritty science in animal models is great, but what about humans? Is there evidence of a gut–bone connection in humans? Epidemiological evidence and observational studies suggest that there is.

In adult humans, bone mineral density is 50 to 80 percent heritable (9). For quite some time, heritable traits were thought to be only passed on from parent to offspring through DNA. We now know that vertical transmission of microbes occurs at birth—as a baby passes through the mother’s birth canal, he or she acquires crucial microbes that shape the composition of their gut microbiota (5). It’s possible that in addition to the heritable traits encoded by our own genetics, additional determinants of our bone health are acquired based on our microbial inheritance.

Bone complications are often seen in individuals with GI disorders. Patients with inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) have an increased risk of osteopenia, osteoporosis, and bone fracture. This has been attributed to malabsorption of calcium, reduced blood levels of vitamin D and K, or bone loss after glucocorticoid treatment (10). Gut and systemic inflammation are also associated with increased production of cytokines that are key contributors to bone loss (11). We’ll discuss this in detail in the next two sections.

Leaky gut and bone health

If you’re an avid reader of my blog, you might be thinking: leaky gut, again? Yep. When the intestinal barrier becomes compromised, microbes or parts of microbes can translocate from the gut lumen to the bloodstream. Your immune system recognizes these bacterial components in the bloodstream and launches a systemic immune response. Indeed, studies have found a strong association between microbial translocation and joint pathologies like rheumatoid arthritis (12, 13).

The most common of the bacterial components include peptidoglycan, lipopolysaccharide, and flagellin. These stimulate various “toll-like” receptors (TLRs) on innate immune cells: peptidoglycan is the primary component of bacterial cell walls and stimulates TLR2; lipopolysaccharide is located in the outer membrane of gram-negative bacteria and stimulates TLR4; and flagellin is the main protein that makes up the filamentous “tail” of bacteria and stimulates TLR5 (14, 15, 16).

Stimulation of innate immune receptors has effects throughout the body, which is why a leaky gut can manifest as a number of different chronic health conditions. In regard to bone health, stimulation of innate immune cells has a direct effect on bone remodeling.

Microbes shape the systemic and mucosal immune system to influence bone remodeling

The microbiota plays a key role in the initial development of the immune system as a child and the maintenance of proper immune responses later in life. This represents yet another pathway by which microbes are connected to bone health, as the immune system is intricately involved in the regulation of bone metabolism and physiology.

Immune cells that are activated by microbes in the gut can migrate to bone and directly regulate bone remodeling via osteoclast-inducing factor, RANKL, and other bone-active molecules (17). Increased levels of activated innate immune cells have been shown to increase expression of the signaling molecule TNFα in bone marrow. TNFα stimulates stems cells in the bone marrow to differentiate into osteoclasts. This tips the normal balance of bone resorption and formation, resulting in higher levels of bone breakdown and lower bone density (18, 19)

Gut microbes regulate the availability of nutrients important for bone health

Healthy bones require a multitude of nutrients, including calcium, phosphorus, vitamin D, vitamin K2, vitamin A, and magnesium. Recent research has also suggested a role of several B vitamins and even vitamins C and E in bone health (20). Animals raised on a nutrient-depleted diet have reduced bone length (21).

Disruption of the microbiota can significantly alter nutrient absorption. Gut dysbiosis has been shown to increase the number of calories absorbed from food (22, 23). Yet it can also result in inflammation of the gut epithelium, the location of nutrient transporters that allow for the absorption of vitamins and minerals. This paradoxically results in individuals that are both overweight and malnourished (24).

In addition to influencing absorption and metabolism, microbes themselves also synthesize some of our vitamins. These include thiamin (B1), niacin (B3), pantothenic acid (B5), biotin (B7), folate, tetrahydrofolate, pyridoxal phosphate, and vitamin K2 (25, 26).

https://chriskresser.com/the-microbiota-and-bone-health-yet-another-reason-to-protect-your-gut/
 
Medications including corticosteroids can cause osteoporosys, care for those.
Doctors tend to use them more and more nowadays.
 
Thank you guys for the replies, it is someone i know, i thought maybe advising salt-water would do at least some benefit for now.

As i read, l just read that well, no matter how much calsium a person takes they never get better. I need to resume reading on health, and wanted to start somewhere.

Will look at the references and replies more closely.
Thank you
 
Felipe4 said:
Thank you guys for the replies, it is someone i know, i thought maybe advising salt-water would do at least some benefit for now.

As i read, l just read that well, no matter how much calsium a person takes they never get better. I need to resume reading on health, and wanted to start somewhere.

Will look at the references and replies more closely.
Thank you

Hey Felipe, what you wrote about "no matter how much they take they never get better" (of calcium) is so true, as I watched my mother and my grandmother being advised to consume a large amount of calcium through the years and their ostheoporosis only getting worse than ever. One medical doctor got to the point of telling my mom "it's because of this genetic problem you have, no matter what you do" (but even then he told her to continue with her poor diet). I'll read and search what Gaby and others suggested, and since last year I'm telling all my family and friends to just research about mineral supplementation and pointing them to these resources. Thank you for bringing this up.
 
Hello Felipe4,

When my fingernails become brittle or bones ache, then I buy and make unflavored pure Gelatin in warm water to drink before going to bed at night, for about one week.
I noticed results in few days later that my fingernails became stronger and my body felt good.

The Dr. Axe website has interesting information about "Gelatin: what is it? 8 uses and benefits"
https://draxe.com/gelatin/

1. Improves Gut Health and digestion

7. Gelatin is rich nutrients like calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, silicon, and sulfur, which help form bones and loss.
Those nutrients are also great for bone healing.
Researchers now believe that gelatin(collagen hydrolysate) can act like a safe, therapeutic agent for treating osteoarthritis....
............
Making homemade gelatin by cooking bones too.
 
Very interesting articles about bone health.

I've also read that Boron is very important for bone density. For example, this site:

Boron is another element on our list of 20 key nutrients that has been discovered only in recent years to be essential to bone health. The body requires boron for proper metabolism and utilization of various bone-building factors, including calcium, magnesium, vitamin D, estrogen, and perhaps testosterone. Though results have been somewhat mixed and the mechanisms have yet to become clear, studies overall show that boron has a mineral-conserving and estrogen-enhancing effect, especially among women with low magnesium intake. Lead researchers now consider boron important for the utilization and metabolism of calcium and vitamin D, as well as for overall hormonal balance.

And this:

Research: Boron Osteoporosis, Osteopenia , arthritis and cognitive function

Arthritis Back in 1963 researchers in North Yorkshire, England found that it was a safe and effective treatment for some forms of arthritis. They also found that boron supplementation not only alleviated arthritic pain and the discomfort of arthritis but that there was lower boron concentrations in "femur, heads, bones and synovial fluid "of people with arthritis than from those who did not have arthritis.

These researchers also found that those who used boron supplements had much harder bones than those who did not use such supplements! When they did comparative geographic studies they found that where boron intake in the daily diet is low (1.0 mg or less,) the incidence of arthritis ranges between 20 t0 70% but in areas where dietary intake is 3 to 10 mg per day, the incidence of arthritis is 0 to 10%! ( The researchers did not extend this last study to the incidence of clinical bone density in the geographic areas but there are now other studies on the topic of born Osteoporosis and Osteopenia.)

Bone density. In 1993 the British Journal of Nutrition published a study " The influence of a low-boron diet and boron supplementation on bone, major mineral and sex steroid metabolism in post menopausal women.".

This study states that an "increase in dietary intake of B from 0.25 to 3.25 mg/d has been reported to increase plasma oestradiol and testosterone and decrease urinary Calcium excretion in post menopausal women." Of particular interest to us is that they found that low boron was associated with elevated urinary calcium excretion. If you recall one of the reasons why we are advised to avoid or seriously cut back our caffeine consumption is because caffeine increases the excretion of calcium in the urine. Now we know that low boron intake could do the same thing.

Another study was published in 2001 in the Journal of Animal Science It examined the "effects of dietary boron on growth performance, bone mechanical properties, and calcium and phosphorus metabolism in pigs. It concluded that boron supplements increased both "growth and bone strength".

And how does this mineral work to build bone? The U.S. Department of agriculture conducted an experiment in which post menopausal women took 3 mg of boron a day. The results showed it reduced excretion of calcium in the urine by 44% and that boron activates estrogen and vitamin D!

And this one that is more focused on its effects on arthritis: Essentiality of boron for healthy bones and joints.

They say that more research is needed, of course, and also that it can be toxic in high doses, but it seems to help with these conditions.

Kay Kim said:
Hello Felipe4,

When my fingernails become brittle or bones ache, then I buy and make unflavored pure Gelatin in warm water to drink before going to bed at night, for about one week.
I noticed results in few days later that my fingernails became stronger and my body felt good.

The Dr. Axe website has interesting information about "Gelatin: what is it? 8 uses and benefits"
https://draxe.com/gelatin/

1. Improves Gut Health and digestion

7. Gelatin is rich nutrients like calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, silicon, and sulfur, which help form bones and loss.
Those nutrients are also great for bone healing.
Researchers now believe that gelatin(collagen hydrolysate) can act like a safe, therapeutic agent for treating osteoarthritis....
............
Making homemade gelatin by cooking bones too.

That's interesting! I recently started eating gelatin again and I noticed a fast improvement in my teeth and my nails too. I guess that bone broth is really something! ;)
 
Back
Top Bottom