Can anyone recommend raw/Paleo cat food recipes?

[PhoenixToEmber]

So I just ordered some Pet Burger from U.S. Wellness Meats and I wanted to start transitioning the cats and dogs in my house to a healthier diet. Puck feeds his dog this meat, somewhat cooked, with pumpkin, peas, vitamins, etc. a recipe he adapted from one that Pete feeds his dog. But I was wondering what I should mix into it and how I should prepare it when feeding a cat. Should I feed them the meat raw or cook it a bit? And should I wean them off their regular diet by including some of it with this meal until they get used to it?

I know there's a kitty at the Chateau so I thought some of you there might be able to help and considered sending a private message to Laura or one of the residents there, but I figured making a thread would be better so I could get multiple points of view from the whole forum.

 

[Keit]

So I just ordered some Pet Burger from U.S. Wellness Meats and I wanted to start transitioning the cats and dogs in my house to a healthier diet. Puck feeds his dog this meat, somewhat cooked, with pumpkin, peas, vitamins, etc. a recipe he adapted from one that Pete feeds his dog. But I was wondering what I should mix into it and how I should prepare it when feeding a cat. Should I feed them the meat raw or cook it a bit? And should I wean them off their regular diet by including some of it with this meal until they get used to it?

There are specific considerations that should be taken into account when feeding cats raw. Here's a good site that has info about that and many other topics. Just look at the menu on the right.

 

[PhoenixToEmber]

There are specific considerations that should be taken into account when feeding cats raw. Here's a good site that has info about that and many other topics. Just look at the menu on the right.

Thanks! I've been reading the site and there's a lot of helpful advice. But with all the vitamins I have to add to the recipe it looks like consistently feeding them healthy is going to be more expensive than I thought. I mean, I can hardly afford to keep myself on a totally healthy diet.

The recipes on the site also use poultry meat and/or rabbit. The Pet Burger is beef. Does it make a difference if cats eat beef even though they clearly couldn't hunt cows in the wild?

 

[kalibex]

If you're willing to try a commercial alternative (or to have some on hand for emergencies, travel, etc.), there are brands of raw but freeze-dried cat food that can be stored on the shelf. You mix it up with warm water before feeding. I've had some success with Stella & Chewy's and Primal Nuggets brands.

 

[Keit]

Thanks! I've been reading the site and there's a lot of helpful advice. But with all the vitamins I have to add to the recipe it looks like consistently feeding them healthy is going to be more expensive than I thought. I mean, I can hardly afford to keep myself on a totally healthy diet.

The recipes on the site also use poultry meat and/or rabbit. The Pet Burger is beef. Does it make a difference if cats eat beef even though they clearly couldn't hunt cows in the wild?

Well, as far as I know, taurine, for example, should be added anyway, especially if you feed with ground meat. Unfortunately, unbalanced raw diet is worse than feeding with kibble. Here's another good site about raw feeding.

Third, cats do not have the capability to create taurine from methionine and cysteine, like dogs do. This means that a cat must ingest sufficient taurine in order to meet its taurine requirements. The excellent news is that taurine is found in virtually all meats, especially beef heart. By feeding a cat a raw diet, the cat should receive the best, most bioavailable form of taurine via its food. There is one proviso: do not grind the food. Grinding increases the surface area of the meat and thus exposes more of the "good stuff" to the air. This results in oxidation of taurine and a resultant decrease in overall taurine available to the cat. Additionally, grinding creates the perfect environment for bacteria growth, and bacteria also utilize the taurine in the meat, thereby further decreasing the total amount of taurine available to your cat. Thus, if you feed your cat a ground raw diet, it may not receive all the taurine it needs to thrive, as is the case with a group of kittens fed whole, ground raw rabbit in this study. If you regularly feed ground raw to your cat (which I do not recommend unless your cat absolutely will not or cannot eat bones), then it is advisable that you supplement with taurine using either fresh beef heart (unground) or a commercial taurine supplement.

As for beef, ideally cats should eat meat of animals they could hunt themselves, but looks that beef is ok too. Just pay attention if your cat doesn't react to it.

 

[lilyalic]

Immersion his cat up on raw eggs, raw chicken and other raw meats. He loved it!
He's massive now, such a lovely cat too.. I guess it was easier for him (Piff) to eat raw meats from such a young age, I guess the transition will be harsh!

Let us know how it goes, I'm very interested! :)

 

[Z...]

As for beef, ideally cats should eat meat of animals they could hunt themselves, but looks that beef is ok too. Just pay attention if your cat doesn't react to it.

I would not recommend feeding beef to cats, it often gives them allergic reactions.

 

[PhoenixToEmber]

As for beef, ideally cats should eat meat of animals they could hunt themselves, but looks that beef is ok too. Just pay attention if your cat doesn't react to it.

I would not recommend feeding beef to cats, it often gives them allergic reactions.

I'll just get chicken for the cats and beef for the dogs. I've just been wondering what else I should mix with the meat for the cats. What kind of fiber would be best to add and how much? How much calcium and other supplements? Should I cook the meat a little or serve it raw?

 

[Z...]

Phoenix there is a detailed recipe on catinfo.org. as well as answers to your questions. In a nutshell cats dont need fiber if you are mimicking whole prey model and provide access to grass.

I personally am not to keen on feeding beef to dogs, at least not all the time and especially if its not grass fed beef. With dogs its best to provide variety of meats, like poultry, rabbit, venison, lamb, small blue fish. And you cannot feed only meat - the ratio should be 40% meat, 20% organs, 20% bones and 20% vegetables. As far as the supplements for dogs go omega 3 at least 500mg per day is the most important.

Hope this helps.

 

[Desertwolves]

Raw diet is the best for cats, all cats in the wild eat raw meat, and they don't need supplements to keep healthy. Kibble would be the worst choice because there are grains and many allergens and toxins, you can't trust what those big corporate company's are trying to get us to feed our pets, or ourselves for that matter. Try feeing a varied raw diet, of whatever is available to you. Chicken, beef, mutton, pork, fish, rabbit, anything you can get, 10% organs and 10% bones. Cats are small, so it would probably only eat 1/4 lb to 1/2 of meat a day, I only spend $1 or $2/ lb on dog meat( they get the cheapest cuts) unless it's their birthday or something. I've fed four dogs a raw diet for 5 years, and once you get the hang of it, it's very simple and a get great joy having your animals eat a natural diet, also equals out to be the same price as feeding a high quality kibble. I don't have a cat but cats are even more of a strict carnivore than dogs, because they hunt and are never know to eat plants, unlike dogs occasionally. There's a raw feeding yahoo group with a lot of long time raw feeders and breeders. They're a really good resource for raw feeding, they'll answer any questions you have, some have been feeing raw to dogs and cats for 30 years! I've never brought my dogs to the vet and never vaccinated them because their diet keeps them healthy and strong. Now if only I could feed myself as healthy as the dogs!

 

[Keit]

Raw diet is the best for cats, all cats in the wild eat raw meat, and they don't need supplements to keep healthy. Kibble would be the worst choice

It's important to note here, so that others who read it won't have a misunderstanding, that unbalanced raw food diet is worse than feeding your cat with kibble. Here's Dr. Karen Becker's article that can give you an idea. If owners can't mimic perfectly by raw food only all the nutrients a cat would require (such as Taurine), there is a need in supplementation.

 

[Miss.K]

I was reading this site http://catsndogsnaturally.com/?p=219 when searching for how much Taurine a mouse contain

According to the site, it seems that there is a big difference in feeding whole meat with bones and supply with organ meat, and feeding ground meat that seems to be the foundation for the proof that cats don't get enough Taurine and vitamins/minerals/etc.

There is a loss of Taurine when freezing (mostly when defrosting)

There is only a slight decrease in taurine when the meat is frozen. However, the longer the meat is frozen, the higher the decrease in taurine. Taurine is water soluble and during the defrosting of meat some water is released, so the actual meat might end up with a little bit less taurine when thawed. But this loss of taurine is not caused by freezing but water release with some taurine dissolved in it.

but it seems as there is more Taurine in many meats than in a mouse (I'm terrible at math so let me know if I'm wrong) so it should make up for the defrost loss unless it's ground rabbit

Lets take a look at the taurine content of some meats:

Raw rabbit meat has the minimum requirement of natural taurine at .07 percent. And, raw chicken has a high taurine level of .12 percent. 1 oz. of beef liver contains 2.359g taurine per kilogram of dry weight (19mg). And, chicken liver contains 6.763g per kilogram of dry weight. 1 oz. of raw turkey leg has 86 mg. Chicken neck 33.1 mg. A typical mouse will contain 2.4 mg/g taurine or (for better comparison with the other values: 100g would contain 240mg) 4 ounces of a mouse would equal over 2400 mg taurine. So, you see, you don’t have to worry about taurine levels being deficient in raw meat (NOTE: Taurine is at its highest level in the tiny heart muscle of a mouse).

About the ground rabbit experiment the site says

Mind you, the researchers were feeding the cats only raw ground rabbit meat. And, as I mentioned above, raw rabbit meat contains the minimum amount of taurine to sustain your cat. Now, add grinding to the equation, plus, freezing and thawing, and taurine falls below the minimum requirement.

I get the impression from reading the above study that the researchers may have been trying to discredit raw feeding to cats by hinting that raw food was not as nutritionally viable as commercial food with its added synthetic taurine. But, the researchers have missed the whole point in feeding raw to our companion felines. The idea behind feeding a species appropriate diet of raw whole prey is to get as close to the cat’s natural diet as possible. The human pet owner can’t match it exactly (it’s not like we’re going to bring home live rabbits and chickens and expect the cat to hunt, kill, and eat the prey in our living room). But, what we can do for our cats is give them a rotation of various whole-solid pieces of fresh meat (rabbits, chicken, turkey, quail, mice, etc.), organs, bones, and limit the length of time the meat is stored in the freezer, and more importantly, do not grind.

I have been feeding my cats raw chicken with bones and sometimes raw chicken liver/hearts.
(They eat the small bones, and leave larger bones that are too big for them to chew)
I do freeze and defrost, but it is never frozen for longer than a week or two.

Unless the site is wrong, it seems as the diet they get is good, so I wanted to ask Z if you with this info still think it is best that I buy a meat grinder (very expensive) in order to grind the meat and bones (which will decrease the Taurine etc. levels and is not as healthy for the teeth as eating whole meat with bones) and then buy Taurine and other supplements to add to make up for the loss, and having to spend more time making cat food?
I really want to provide them a healthy diet, but if it ain't broken, there is no reason to spend money and energy to fix it.

This link provided by Keit

Well, as far as I know, taurine, for example, should be added anyway, especially if you feed with ground meat. Unfortunately, unbalanced raw diet is worse than feeding with kibble. Here's another good site about raw feeding.

says:

If you regularly feed ground raw to your cat (which I do not recommend unless your cat absolutely will not or cannot eat bones), then it is advisable that you supplement with taurine using either fresh beef heart (unground) or a commercial taurine supplement.

Which suggest that the diet I feed wouldn't need added supplements

The unbalanced raw diet that many warn about, is as the site Keit provided here

Dr. Karen Becker's article that can give you an idea. If owners can't mimic perfectly by raw food only all the nutrients a cat would require (such as Taurine), there is a need in supplementation.

says

Some pet owners believe they can offer their dog or cat a chicken breast and some veggies, and call it a day

but whole chopped up chickens with bones, and supplied with chicken heart/liver is very different from a chicken breast and some veggies.

What do you think?


As for getting cats to eat raw meat and bones, my experience is that well fed cats have quite different tastes (what one loves another hates), but being hungry helps a lot in making anything seem yummy. My cats don't like chicken wings much. The skin is very hard to chew through and there is not much meat as a bonus for chewing through it, but before they were my cats, and were hungry strays outside my house, they would swallow the whole thing, and so will the other hungry strays from the area, that have heard that there's a crazy cat lady living here who can't refuse a beggar a meal, and have started snoopin 'round my door...

 

[Z...]

Unless the site is wrong, it seems as the diet they get is good, so I wanted to ask Z if you with this info still think it is best that I buy a meat grinder (very expensive) in order to grind the meat and bones (which will decrease the Taurine etc. levels and is not as healthy for the teeth as eating whole meat with bones) and then buy Taurine and other supplements to add to make up for the loss, and having to spend more time making cat food?
I really want to provide them a healthy diet, but if it ain't broken, there is no reason to spend money and energy to fix it.

As long as your cats will crunch and eat bones I agree. I have some clients who feed this way-only chopping the necks and thighs (with bone) in smaller pieces and their cats love it and eat everything. However most of the cats wont and this is why meat grinder was introduced.

I know someone who fed their Siamese nothing but chicken heads, all its life, and this cat just died last year being 24 years old, that's the oldest cat I ever met. Curiously his masseter muscles were so beefed up that I thought he has terribly swollen lymph-nodes when I first met him. But he was like that all his life, and very healthy.

 

[Miss.K]

As long as your cats will crunch and eat bones I agree. I have some clients who feed this way-only chopping the necks and thighs (with bone) in smaller pieces and their cats love it and eat everything. However most of the cats wont and this is why meat grinder was introduced.

I know someone who fed their Siamese nothing but chicken heads, all its life, and this cat just died last year being 24 years old, that's the oldest cat I ever met. Curiously his masseter muscles were so beefed up that I thought he has terribly swollen lymph-nodes when I first met him. But he was like that all his life, and very healthy.

Thanks Z :)