Can Quantum physics explain NDE ?

[Esote]

Two quantum physics experts claim that near-death experiences occur when the soul leaves the nervous system and enters the universe.

Their ground-breaking theory holds that quantum substances form the soul, which are part of the fundamental structure of the universe :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2225190/Can-quantum-physics-explain-bizarre-experiences-patients-brought-brink-death.html


Now, what about those not having a real soul, as Gurdjieff stated that very few people have one ?
May be he was meaning something like a conscious soul vs. an ordinary one, which could be a mere recollection of memories ?..

 

[Maat]

It is not clear in this article if they make a difference between soul and consciousness. Also in esoterism there is often a distinction between an individualized soul and a collective soul.

I find that the analogy of Pim von Lommel regarding NDE more clearer, that is brain doesn't create consciousness, it's just an interface like a TV (if your TV is broken, the programs still exist even if you aren't able to receive them)

I find it more confusing to coin some quantum substances that we don't know what they are. But I guess it's just a popular article and that Hameroff and Penrose are more relevant in their thinking.

edit : changed explanation for analogy

 

[Esote]

You are right, Maat, there is no clear distinction between soul and consciousness in this theory, AFAIK.
The analogy of Pim von Lommel seems quite acute, by the way.

What's particularly interesting there is that it's another opening toward new researches in nowadays sciences, going beyond the materialistic paradigm...

 

[Maat]

I'm not sure that talking about "quantum substances" and "microtubules" in the brain is going beyond materialistic paradigm.

I reread this article but really things like "our experience of consciousness is the result of quantum gravity effects in these microtubules, a theory which they dubbed orchestrated objective reduction (Orch-OR)." make no sense to me. But I'm sure not a physicist and maybe it's just a bad article where they put quantum everywhere to look smart. Or maybe that is me that is not up to date and doesn't know what quantum computer, quantum substance or quantum gravity effect mean.

In the field of parapsychology there are people like van Lommel or Dean Radin or Charles Tart (if my memory is good enough) that refer to quantum theory, saying that for example the law of non locality could help explain psi phenomena. Here I understand and it makes sense IMO (within the boundaries of my understanding of course).

In fact, I just doesn't understand a single word of Hameroff's theory...

 

[Esote]

The link to this theory has been given to me by a friend who is a physicist, so I guess it's not a bad article just "trying to look smart".
Anyway, there are matters which can't really be explained by Quantum physics, AFAIK, particularly about consciousness...

 

[Deleted member 8431]

The main problem I see with this theory is that he seems to imply that the soul is a derivate of matter/quantum particles. Then he says that consciousness is a "program which reads a quantum computer in the brain" which in itself is the result of "quantum gravity effects in these microtubules". What is that based on? What data, experiments, observations, facts?

I seriously can't understand how he can assume that once we die, those micro/nanostructures release their informations in the universe at large and also that they can be retreived when you are revived. I mean, how? What is he talking about to begin with? What are these precise informations and how do they work?

I'm not a scientist but that dosen't make much sense to me either. I mean, there might be some good points in this whole theory (I don't really know) but it seems to me more like a "show-off" article rather than a real piece of evidence.

Anyway, there are matters which can't really be explained by Quantum physics, AFAIK, particularly about consciousness...

As Max Planck have already said:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness. We have no right to assume that any physical laws exist, or if they have existed up to now, that they will continue to exist in a similar manner in the future."

And I also like this one:

"Anybody who has been seriously engaged in scientific work of any kind realizes that over the entrance to the gates of the temple of science are written the words: Ye must have faith."

My 2 cents.

Peace.

 

[Esote]

You are right, JayMark, there is no evidence.
The real interest is that some scientists are trying to bring new paradigms.
May be they are as twisted as the accepted materialistic dogma, but still it is some kind of a sign that there is a different approach going on...

 

[Esote]

Actually, I think it is the opposite in the consciousness process which is likely to occur : since it is a demonstrated in quantum physics that information is the meaning and matter the shape of it, otherwise that information comes before its expression in matter, the brain is rather the computer of consciousness, not the opposite as it appears from the Hameroff's theory...

 

[Medulin]

In all cells, microtubules are essential for cell division.
But brain cells (neurons) don't divide after first years after birth, because neurons lack centriole (another component of the mitotic spindle).
So, neuronal microtubules must have some (other) function in neurons...

_http://www.quantum-mind.co.uk/danko-georgiev-2-c171.html