Canine UTIs

Lan8r

Lan8r

Jedi Master
I am posting this in hope that someone may have some experience/knowledge of this subject and may be able to help me, or I should say my Pup, to sort out the truth with regards to this situation.

My Lil Pup has recently been diagnosed with a UTI. Having suffered from recurrent UTIs in my youth I feel for her. She didn't show obvious signs of pain, but what I interpreted as signs of discomfort. So off to the Vet we went. Her urinalysis, according to the Vet, indicated a UTI with Struvite crystals in her urine. She prescribed antibiotics and a temporary special diet, Hill's Science Diet c/d canned I have never been a fan of Science Diet, but I figured that it is temporary and if it will help her I am willing to try it, if my Pup is willing to eat it. Well, she is not unless I doctor it with 'real food'.

Anyway she did say that it is not uncommon for dogs with UTIs to show these crystals in their urine, particularly for females especially if they have a UTI. She also stated that she may have bladder stones and recommended an x-ray. I am planning on doing that as soon as I am financially able (my next paycheck).

She is 8 days of ten on antibiotics and still shows signs of discomfort and also discharge after starting the antibiotics. I am to bring another urine sample at 14 days, so maybe I am worrying prematurely. I have googled this and most of what I have found is conventional treatment, the natural diet is basically what she eats now. I have added some baking soda to her drinking water in hopes of balancing her Ph and maybe get her to drink more water. She will not drink Cranberry juice or eat the orange slices I have tried to feed her, and she turns her nose at apple cider vinegar in her water dish!! There are several many supplements available on-line that I can try to maintain urinary health, all claiming to be the best, but I may need something that immediately dissolves stones, and I am confused.

I am trying to follow my Vets advise but my Pup won't eat the special diet straight and she is still showing signs of discomfort. Maybe she actually has stones and we need to wait for the xray to be sure, but even then if what has been recommended isn't even really helping now, what will we do then?

I am sorry if I sound like a worried Mother, but I don't like seeing my best friend in this way and I am feeling helpless to fix this or bring her any relief. I mean, we are only one person!! Maybe I am being alittle impatient?

Thanks for your help.
 
Hi Freya,
Most of my posts when someone asks advice about their pet's health here start with - Change the diet ASAP. In this case this is particularly important. The struvite stones are precipitated by the changes in urine ph caused by dry food. Hills prescription diet is basically the same stuff only with some added chemicals to keep urine ph in check- in short very nasty, it will sort this problem but in a long run as it will cause some other problems. Plus it is very costly.
Also it is very important that you add vitamin C to your dogs diet. 500mg a day. You can also try giving her homeopathic preparation of Belladona 30c one granule only, straight on the top of the tongue, one hour before or one hour after the meal.

I do recommend you go for an x-ray or ultrasound because it may be that some bigger stone has already formed in her bladder and if this is the case this will have to be removed surgically.

As for what to feed - the key words are raw meat, bones and fat.
There are many resources on the net, you can also try this book
http://www.amazon.com/Pitcairns-Complete-Guide-Natural-Health/dp/157954973X which has fairly good section on the food.
Also in the latest issue of DCM there is a feature on dog and cat food.
 
One of my cats was diagnosed with diabetes after having been given only Urinary SO cat food (dry & canned) for an extended period of time, a diet high in grain. We don't know yet if she is going to pull through or not. We decided not to put her on insulin. (See this topic.)

I don't know what UTI is but it sounds like it is related to the problem that my cat had, urinary crystals.
 
Megan, I am sorry, that was rude of me, I should have spelled it out. Urinary Tract Infection. From what I have been reading on-line it is not recommended to feed the SO diet for very long, but they never warn that your pet could become diabetic because of it. I am sorry to hear that this has happened to your cat, I hope she does pull through this.

Herr Eisenheim,

Thanks for your post. She has been eating a diet of meat (sometimes raw, mostly lightly cooked). A couple times a week I will add mashed green beans, some sweet potato and about once a week she gets her favorite dinner of sardines. She also enjoys bacon and eggs a few times a week. She has been eating a 'real food' diet for at least 4 years now. We have been adjusting it over time as we learn more of course, and I used to feed her rice with her meat, but we quit that when we began to learn of the evils of grain.

Back when I thought Dogs where supposed to eat Dog food and wanted to feed them the best I never liked Science Diet. When the Vet said that this c/d food would dissolve the stones, if there were any, and it was only temporary, I felt we had to try it. I am worried about the possibility of surgery. But she won't eat it. I have to put meat in it and she picks that out real well and leaves most of the c/d food. I had already started searching on-line to find out what the 'secret ingredient' that would dissolve the stones was and an equivalent 'real food' that would do it. I guess I was under the impression that there was some miracle ingredient that, within a few feedings, would wash away the stones. And even as the antibiotic is working on the infection she is still in discomfort. It hurts me to see her suffering and I am feeling helpless and discouraged that she is not feeling better.

We will be getting the x-ray when we go back for her follow up urinalysis. I am worried that she may have stones and might need surgery. I will start adding vit c today and get some belladona as soon as possible. Is the belladona for this specific condition, or should it be a regular supplement?

Thank you so much for your reply and your help.
 
Belladona 30c can be given once only, not as a regular supplement.

Well her diet seems to be ok but since she is suffering from struvite crystals I would eliminate all sources of carbs and feed her only animal protein and animal fat preferably raw meat and bones. Sardines are fine and recommended once a week.

Is your dog pure breed? How old is she? Is she intact or spayed?
 
I am not a vet and far from an expert but I did do some research when my male Pug, Charlie, had an UTI that would not go away.

Herr is right on and just to add further, I came across info that states that it is very important to do a clean catch culture of the urine to see what specific bacteria it is in order to choose the appropriate antibiotic to treat the bacteria and the appropriate antibiotic that works in whatever the ph that your dog's urine is.

The first antibiotic that was prescribed for Charlie did not work so I took him back and asked the vet to culture his urine. He prescribed another antibiotic that worked with the ph of Charlie's urine since his urine ph was on the border of whatever blah blah is what the vet said. The second prescription did work and it worked within a day so if the antibiotics prescribed for your dog are not working by now I would take him/her back and get the correct antibiotic.

The vet I was taking my Pugs to at the time, tried to get me to use the Hill's Prescription Diet for UTI after the first visit but I refused because it is very crappy food and the first ingredient is corn.

When I came back the second time to get the CORRECT antibiotic and he found out that I was not feeding the food that he had prescribed he got pretty pissed at me (no pun intended). I asked him what specific ingredient treats the UTI and adjusts the ph. He got all flustered and peeved that I was asking that simple question and said"Oh I don't know but the research by Hill's blah blah".

**modified for clarity**
 
Belladona 30c can be given once only, not as a regular supplement.
Click to expand...

Sorry for that question! I should have googled it first! I just found out what it is and it appears that you're recommending it to ease the discomfort?

Lily is 8 years old. She is a Jack Russell although not purebred. I have never met her parents and know nothing of her breeding. I think she was the result of an accidental breeding. My sister brought her home from out of state wanting to help her in-laws find good homes. I think she thought that Lily would rescue me after recently having to put down my 14 yo Rottweiler. She did rescue me and now it is my turn to rescue her right back!

April, thank you for sharing that. I did read in my researching about doing a culture. I have been so preoccupied worrying that since she is not showing any signs of improvement that must mean she has stones. The possibility that the antibiotic may not be working hadn't occurred to me. The Vet did say that just because she has crystals in her urine does not necessarily mean that she has stones and some of what I have been reading also suggests that it is not uncommon to have crystals with a urinary tract infection. So thanks for mentioning that. Today is the last day on the antibiotic, she will be going in for a follow up urinalysis and we will find out if the infection has cleared. If not, I will insist on a culture.

I should have voiced my concern about the prescribed diet to my Vet at the time, but I just got through listening to a lecture from the Vet Tech about how terrible a pet owner I was since my dog was not spayed. She went on about the client whose dog was ridden with tumors because she neglected to spay her and now the dog needs surgery that the owner can't afford and will probably have to be put down. Of course I tried not to listen, just nodded my head, but she hit a fear nerve non the less. If it turns out that Lily has stones requiring surgery that would be a great financial hardship, but I would 'beg, borrow and steal' to make it happen. I worry about surgery too because she is 8 yrs old and I would not want her to have to go through that.

She will be getting an x-ray also so I will know then whether she does have stones. The least evil will be that the antibiotics were not effective and if your dog showed improvement right away, then maybe that is the case with Lily.

Thanks again for all your help
 
PS to my post....

I just received my Dot Connector Mag and am going straight to the pet diet article you mentioned Herr Eisenheim!!

I also wanted to mention that my dog's current diet is mostly thanks to you and your advise here on the Forum. Thank you for the time and effort you take to help us all to help our pets!
 
I forgot to mention this...

Charlie had another UTI after the first one and instead of getting antibiotics, I used this Tinkle Tonic by Animal Apawthecary (Animal Essentials) and it worked like a charm.

_http://www.animalessentials.com/#product_search:tinkle%20tonic
 
I am not a veterinarian. I will only offer that giving your dog a "tea" of Plantain( White Mans' Foot", as Native folks sometimes call it). might be a worthy remedy to the UTI ( Urinary Tract Infection) you decribe.
Gather about 1/2 cup/ small handful. Take the leaves, (making sure they are harvested from an area that is not in a roadside ditch, or where chemicals have bee sprayed.), Tear or chop them up into small(1/4 inch/ centimeter squares), place them in enough water to cover & bring to a boil in a sauce pan. At the first signs of a boil, turn off heat & remove from heat source. Let steep & cool. ( the "tea"/water will turn green. ) Put this "tea" in your dogs' food & let them eat as they normally do & in a few days, you may find that your dogs' symptoms & medical "issue" is remedied.

Most folks think that these "herbs" are only for the use of humans, but I have found that they are almost always equally useful to our "friends" as well.

Here is one link, although there are many to look at:
http://www.dickcontino.com/plantainherbmedicalusessupplements.htm

As a diuretic, Plantain increases urine flow, and its potent antiseptic properties make it effective in easing uterine infections, urinary tract infections, syphili and bladder infections. It is beneficial for female disorders with fluent discharges and internal problems symptomatic of the urinary tract, including cystitis and leucorrhoea. Plantain may also slow the growth of tuberculosis bacteria and staphylococcus infection. The increased urine flow also helps to rid the body of excess mucus and fluids, which is useful in cases of edema (the accumulation of fluid in tissues that cause swelling) and excess water weight.
Click to expand...

,to give you some idea of some of the uses for this medicinal herb.
There are a lot of medicinal herbs to use, but this one is easy to find, it seems, almost everywhere in the world.


I wish you well in your search to help your friend.
JB/MnSportsman
 
Lily and I would like to thank you all for your help and to post an update.

Her follow up urinalysis indicated that the infection had not yet cleared and still showed struvite crystals. Her radiograph showed that she does not have stones at present. They are doing a culture to determine the specific bacteria in order to be sure to prescribe the proper antibiotic. In the mean time she has been given Biomox, the first antibiotic prescribed was Cefpodoxime. After googling Biomox, I found that it is actually amoxicillin, a form of penicillin. I suffered recurrent UTIs in my youth and was prescribed Bactrim, a broad spectrum sulfer based antibiotic. I used to joke that they were 'horse pills' because they were huge! Later in life, when I was working with Horses, I found they were given often for infection, called TMZ. I was advised that it is basically the same thing as Bactrim. Ironically alot cheaper than my Human prescription. I was told then that the sulfer based was preffered over penicillin. I am not a Vet and I am not a dog, but I wonder why a similar sulfer based anitbiotic was not given to Lily.

Of course the Vet advised that she needs to be on the special diet in order to adjust her Ph. When I told her that she would not eat the Science Diet, she recommended trying Royal Canin s/d. I told her that Lily doesn't eat 'dog food' and asked what I could incorporate into our natural diet that will do the same thing. She couldn't help with that she said she is not familiar with what 'human foods' to feed for this. Her advise would be that I need to show some 'tough love' and get her to eat the s/d.

Let me say that this Vet is a good person. She handled Lily wonderfully and told me that she was certain she could do the xray without sedation. (although Lily is a very good dog and I don't know how hard that task really is). I appreciated that and respect the years of schooling she has committed to and her obvious love of animals, but I am feeling frustration in the inability of this clinic to see 'outside the box'. I can't even tell you how many times I heard the phrase 'human food' from the Vet and the Techs. I got so upset that I finally spit out "it's not 'human food', its FOOD, I feed her REAL food, they are carnivores, I feed her meat"! I get the feeling they think I am crazy, but they took my money with a smile, and I don't doubt that they really want to help my pup.

I have been searching for herbal remedies to adjust the Ph, and ironically April, wound up on the same page you recommended 'Tinkle Tonic'! I have been adding vit c to her diet. I need to find a powder form, in the meantime I have been grinding my pills and sprinkling it on her food and also tried dissolving them in a little distilled water and adding it to her water dish. I am not sure how long it will take for this to have an effect. Her urine still shows slightly alkaline. I am trying to feed her the best natural diet I can, and maybe she is genetically predisposed to UTI, or I need to adjust her diet slightly, I don't know. But I am glad to know that she has no stones at this time.

My sister was just up visiting this Labor day weekend, she worked as a Vet Tech/anesthesiologist some 12 yrs ago now. She did some spinal palpating and found some sensitivity in the thoracic area. A couple of discs back from just behind the shoulder blade (the sensitive spot where you can apply pressure and the dog drops to the ground). I don't think Lily's reaction was related to that sensitive area. It was further back and she didn't go down, she twisted her head around growling and looked like she wanted to take a chunk of finger! We did some massage and heat therapy for several days and her discomfort has improved.

She never really showed obvious signs of severe pain, just what i would interpret as discomfort. (with one exception, when I found her chewing on my cheap TV shelf made of prestressed wood, she has never offered to chew on anything, that was not normal behavior for her and that got me to worrying in the first place). She does show signs of what might be called frequent urination, but that too was not uncharacteristic behavior. We live in a dog friendly Apt complex and she does tend to 'mark her territory'. She does show signs of a decent volume on her first pee-pee. She has been drinking plenty of fluids and shows no loss of appetite (besides the fact that she won't eat Science Diet, but I don't think that counts!!)

MnSportsman, thanks for your recommendation of 'White Man's Foot'. I will be checking out the link.

I am releived to know that she does not have stones at this time. Thank you Herr Eisenheim, although my intention was to get the xrays, your recommendation to do so greatly influenced the importance and has put my mind at ease. Now I can concentrate on preventing them, as opposed to surgery.
 
I would suggest that you look for a holistic vet in your area. Good person or not, she's not advising you in a way that will allow your dog to be healthy and happy and you need to find a new vet. Most holistic vets will do phone consults if you are not in their immediate area. Seriously - find a new vet - what matters is the health care your animal receives and this vet is really ignorant when it comes to nutrition. You shouldn't pay for ignorance.
 
Anart,

Thank you so much for your post. You must know what I need. A straight forward 'Slap me upside the head' kind of thing! The truth is this Vet IS ignorant of my dogs nutritional needs. Good person or not, as you say, and as I would like to believe. Maybe I wishfully think that someone who appears to truly love animals, would accept and understand alternatives to conventional thinking. But it appears more like 'authoritarian follower' type of thinking.

Anyway, I have begun a search for 'holistic' Vets in my area. I was left with nothing. However, after thinking about the fact that my dog responded well to massage and heat therapy when it appeared that she may have a spinal/muscle type issue (not discounting that she had a UTI issue also), I googled Chiropractic Vets. I found one locally whose web page states that she does acupuncture and also does nutritional therapy. So I called them, close to closing time, but they were willing to hear me out. She doesn't claim to be 'homeopathic', but acupuncture is close enough for me! When I asked if her nutritional therapy would include a real food, raw diet type the response was 'Oh yes, and so many people are looking into that these days'. The Tech did go on about how the s/d may be beneficial to many animals, but I got the impression that this Vet would welcome someone who wishes to feed a natural, preventative type diet, but would also support a client who wasn't ready to think that way. In reality, especially where I am, one would have to be able to 'go both ways' if they wished to stay in business and support themselves.

Anyway, I've scheduled a consultation specifically for a 'crystal stone herbs' diet recommendation. And also to feel her out. I am obviously a 'sucker' and don't want to be sucked up into a 'New Age' healer type Vet thing any more than I want to be stuck in a 'traditionally accepted' Veterinary protocol thing.

Well, the x-rays show that she doesn't have stones at this time, but she still has the crystals so there is something I must not be doing right, or something I need to adjust in order to prevent this. Or it could be related to a bacterial infection in her urinary tract. I wish I knew more, the not knowing is the worst thing ever!

Please know that she is not doubled over in pain. The last UTI I suffered left me doubled over and in the ER at midnight on Christmas eve. I didn't have blood in my urine, I had urine in my blood, so to speak. Her discomfort appears less since the massage and heat therapy, but I am not a dog and she may have a high pain threshold. And according to her urinalysis she still has a bacterial issue . And the struvite crystals which could lead to further problems. So we are not out of the woods as they say.

Thank you Anart for your support and much needed strength. As you say 'what matters is the health care my animal receives' and even though I would pay whatever is necessary, I can't afford to pay for ignorance.
 
Dogs do not have a high pain threshold. They just hide the pain...it is instinctive to hide the pain so they do not appear weak or sick to predators and become prey in the wild.
 
Freya said:
Anyway, I've scheduled a consultation specifically for a 'crystal stone herbs' diet recommendation. And also to feel her out. I am obviously a 'sucker' and don't want to be sucked up into a 'New Age' healer type Vet thing any more than I want to be stuck in a 'traditionally accepted' Veterinary protocol thing.
Click to expand...

I think the chances of you erring in that direction are pretty low. As my vet says (and he practices chinese herbal medicine, acupuncture, holistic medicine and allopathic (Western) medicine) - "the fewer times your pet sees a Western vet, the longer it will live".

You're getting more informed all the time, and you pay attention to what's going on with your animal, so I think you'll be fine! Good move on the chiropractic vet. You can always ask them who they recommend for emergencies, in case anything major comes up that they can't handle.
 
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