Carlos Castenada and the Art of Dreaming

[ash]

Aloha Everyone!

Reading thru all the lucid dreaming posts, it struck me as odd that no one has mentioned Carlos!

I read his book on the dreaming subject, and practiced the steps necessary to get thru the gates 1-7. Only made it to gate 3 and decided this was really, really! A good place to stop!
Lucidity is step one, becoming aware of dreaming and consistently maintaining awareness thru the entire dream. Now thats fun! I had loads of fun with that.
Step 2, involves basic mechanics from what i remember , making the dream do things that you wanted done. control it.
Then with this step 3 and 4 im a little fuzzy on the order or the exact names of each because i sorta block it out. I remember that our dreams, are 'worlds' - where other entity's can enter into, from what Don Juan outlined. These entity's will disguise themselves as parts of the scenery , friends family - etc.
Now we come to my experience with this. Need to 'reveal' the entity. Identify it. Take off its disguise. Don Juan says you point your pinky finger (lol) @ it and ask the object to reveal itself. If its part of your dream it wont change, but if its a being - it will be revealed. So part 4 is about opening windows or doors and using them as portals to different dreams and the like. Or vice-verssa, not sure.

ok so were dreaming and we become aware that we are and we begin to practice the art of dreaming. we see our bedroom and all the regular stuff in it chair bookcase, desk, books, etc. I clean my bedroom with a snap of my fingers, Walla! {control it}
I decide Ill go upstairs and do something. On my way out of my bedroom, couple of boxes and stacked chairs on my left. I remember to 'randomly point @ objects in the dream, reveal them'. So I do- point @ the bottom chair, reveal yourself- nice no changes, same with the chair stacked on top-no changes. I point my pinky at the box, 'reveal yourself', the box shakes. ok so i say it again the box shakes even more knocking over the stacked chairs. im a bit spooked by it so far, and more shouting in a spookedvoice - 'Reveal Yourself!' and the box disappeared, and its place was this like burst of light, burst of something the box was gone. I woke up shaken! instantly woke right up.

So yah his book was starting to ring true to my experience. and i backed off.
I like to fly around now and then sometimes in a dream here and ther, Nice! ya. I like that. but this you got visitors in your dreams watching you,- no - i dont like that.
Another thing, is that i continued to practice regular yoga meditation daily like i always did and then i stopped doing that. about a week or two after that lucid dream. i hadnt made and effort to have more. im meditating and im starting to get that feeling that your going to astral travel. {some may know'} so- im tellin my self to go with it, let go almost ther, let go and i think im feeling the floating up part but its a slow spin, and im like no, no other way, and im using intent now to not spin. and the spinning is getting faster, abruptly so- and im scared never happend like this before so i try to force my self awake, to only realize thers these 2 darktype beings that are spinning me faster and faster and the more yelling to stop the more ferocious the spinning became. I called out in the Name of Jesus to help me. the spinning stopped immediately, and I woke up, instantly. I have never forgotten that to this day.

And i have yet to master the art of dreaming. lol I have to say Big Brother had an eye out for me there, I had no idea what forces im dealing with and hey i dont have what it takes to jump dimensions just yet. So I put that book back on the shelf. and didnot finish it.
lol

 

[Nathan]

Personally, when it reached the chapter on 'Inorganic beings' I became somewhat wary. The idea of messing around with beings from other dimensions or densities didn't sound particularly appealing. :P

 

[Guest]

And i have yet to master the art of dreaming. lol I have to say Big Brother had an eye out for me there, I had no idea what forces im dealing with and hey i dont have what it takes to jump dimensions just yet. So I put that book back on the shelf. and didnot finish it.
lol

You have obviously reached a threshold. In my experience, such thresholds are reached through beginner's mind, and if one feels overwhelmed it is usually prudent to back off until more knowledge is gained about onself, one's constitution and about the threshold itself.

It is actually a very important experience, IMO. It gives us a reference to our progress. Usually, beginners mind allows us to make all the right moves to get results, and when we encounter a certain point of intensity, our own realization that we may not have what it takes YET to deal with the situation can hold us back. That is a positive result.

A negative result would be trying to push through without ample preparation and experiencing some kind of psychic trauma that would REALLY make it a barrier. Think of it as a dash up a tall tree, and then looking down and freezing. One has to slowly retrace one's steps, learn more about the ins and outs of climbing, get in better shape, and climb slow and deliberately to lower heights to get used to the process.

I also do not believe that Don Juan's teachings need to be taken to the letter all the time. The Castandeda books are a bit extreme in how they confront the interdimensional sometimes. And that's why I think Don Juan says that many sorcerers confronting the "infinite" went insane, and subsequently advises that first one needs to be able to deal with the adversity in our material life to gain confidence in the transdimensional realm.

Certainly lucidity has its merits, but there is also the argument that when you constantly override the subconscious in your dreams, you inhibit much of what it has to give you. I believe being "receptively aware" or passively lucid is VERY useful, but going around challenging everything and imposing controls that can be arbitrary for the most part, goes against the very healing and revealing dynamic of dreaming.

Another thing is that when your awareness increases in dreams and life, your energy attracts attention as any strength attracts attention in an ecosystem of predators. The alternative is to remain weak and hide, which is not really the best way to go about existence.

At the same time the interdimensional realm is NOT just a den of fiends and harmful forces. There is help, and there is also the innate power of the soul and spirit, which are the greatest powers one can invoke in a dream. Instead of poking at the dream fauna, a far more useful tactic is to become stage one lucid and meditate as one does in the waking state, moving to connect with the core of self and the greater life-force of the world, what you might call the divine presence.

The power of pure consciousness is formidable against any of these denizens, but it needs to be cultivated, and to approach that threshold again one needs to be fortified. Since stage 1 lucidity is so easy for you (and having the experience so easily is a talent not all of us have), you can use it not to control, but to learn and to connect with the positive instead of provoking the negative.

Once you access the right vibration in your heart and through your higher centers, you can become empowered through your own potential and that empowerment can be revealed much more directly in the dreamscape than in waking life, so the messages can be much clearer.

This would minimize the danger and the fear and allow you to proceed with knowledge and a more deliberate and balanced pace. It is best not to throw out the baby with the bathwater, since interdimensional entities already have your number and always have, because they sense your potential whether you express it or not. By remaining withdrawn instead of moving to become as strong as you need, you are only doing them a favour.

In short, Stage 1 is fun and easy to attain, so why not just sit down and meditate in a dream and see what happens? Visualize, chant a mantra, feel the energies invoked in meditation, and they may have a lot to offer. Meditation is safe in both dreaming and waking, and it doesn't impose on the subconscious but allows it to integrate.

 

[Tigersoap]

I'll share my experience on lucid dreaming.

I have regular lucid dreams since I've read the same book from Castaneda.
I was so surprised when just by doing the "hands" trick in my dreams I could suddenly become aware that I was dreaming.

I also had some very peculiar things happening to me but nothing so scary.
Maybe just once though, I had this weight crushing me like a block of concrete and I had to fight back trashing my arms and legs around to get rid of it.

Some of those lucid dreams make me fly over landscape much like our own but I always feel this is another place but without being able to pinpoint why exactly.

My problem with lucid dreaming is that most of the time my dream ends up abruptly and I kinda wake up in my sleeping body.
I can feel my astral body, move my hands and legs but without being able to do anything else.

The last time it happened to me (last month) I was moving my arms and legs out of my body and I was so sure at that time that I was going to get an astral travel without really being willing or prepared. That thought woke me up pretty quick !!

As much as I like Castaneda' book it does not really help me to fully grasp the whole meaning of lucid dreaming in the end.

 

[Chandelle Blanche]

Another thing is that when your awareness increases in dreams and life, your energy attracts attention as any strength attracts attention in an ecosystem of predators. The alternative is to remain weak and hide, which is not really the best way to go about existence.

I think maybe, you make a mistake here.
The universe is bountiful and plenty.
There are many alternatives.

Another alternative is become unpalatable.

The group here; may, find some other alternatives.

 

[Pierre]

Aloha Everyone!

Reading thru all the lucid dreaming posts, it struck me as odd that no one has mentioned Carlos!

I read his book on the dreaming subject, and practiced the steps necessary to get thru the gates 1-7. Only made it to gate 3 and decided this was really, really! A good place to stop!
Lucidity is step one, becoming aware of dreaming and consistently maintaining awareness thru the entire dream. Now thats fun! I had loads of fun with that.
Step 2, involves basic mechanics from what i remember , making the dream do things that you wanted done. control it.
Then with this step 3 and 4 im a little fuzzy on the order or the exact names of each because i sorta block it out. I remember that our dreams, are 'worlds' - where other entity's can enter into, from what Don Juan outlined. These entity's will disguise themselves as parts of the scenery , friends family - etc.
Now we come to my experience with this. Need to 'reveal' the entity. Identify it. Take off its disguise. Don Juan says you point your pinky finger (lol) @ it and ask the object to reveal itself. If its part of your dream it wont change, but if its a being - it will be revealed. So part 4 is about opening windows or doors and using them as portals to different dreams and the like. Or vice-verssa, not sure.
lol

I would like to share a complementary interpratation of Carlos Castaneda teachings about the art of dreaming. If I correctly remember step one is to see you hands during a dream. If I'm correct it took seventeen years to Carlos. Actually it could be one hand or any other part of your body.

Usually, the first time you see your hand you get a kind of electric shock in your whole body and you wake up. Shocked but very happy. It you had time and you didn't get too fascinated by your hands, you saw something else before the "shock". What you saw has a meaning. Though it usually doesn't carry a direct meaning (you can see a house, a tree, a lake). The dominant colour is important. The dominant feeling too.

Then you might see your hand(s) again. The process might last longer. The main thing is to find a balance between watching what is in your dream and watching your hands. If you watch your hands too long the dreams vanishes progressively and you usually wake up (be careful of some uncomfortable states of not sleeping but not being able to wake up) on the other sidfe if you stare too long at one component of your dream, your mind is brought away to a whole new dream place where usually your hands are not there anymore.

Usually when those things happen, your dream environment doesn't display the place where you sleep. This process is different from an astral journey though it might show some similarities.

 

[capt.picard]

hiya!

I wanted to ask a question about dreaming and saw this post. the book from "The art of dreaming" fascinated me most of all (almost) beacuse i can do this also.

i have written down about 9-10 lucid dreams from lets say this year. i could also control them. my hands were first like monster hands when i saw them (very vascular, dark and with big fingernails). in the last dream i did a bit of practice. i was in a backyard and there were two corn plants. i hugged one and wished it to grow to the skies like in the fairytale with the beans. i was above the clouds,then i wanted to come down and the plant shrunk. after that i saw a brick on a wall and my father comes and says : melt it if you can. i concentrated hard and visualized and the brick melted. after that i did some elements to grow- just pointed my hand (this time "normal") to a plant on the ground and imagined it grew towards me and it did. i didnt try to change the surounding but i bet it would be easy manageable.

just a few minutes before this dream i had another lucid dream where on the ground was a pen. i wanted to get it in my hand just wishing it but there were two children making noise right next to me like they wanted to wreck my concentration and they did. next thing i wake up and see the same pen from the dream and then i wrote all lucid dreams down.
i had also one significant dream were i saw myself in the mirror. i was black skinned (during the day i am white :)) and my head was covered with a layer of rubber like those for car tires and i had a little bit hair here and there-weird. i never saw myself in a dream before.

well, that was some examples. the important thing i want to ask the members of this board is about the technique of falling asleep while aware. don huan mentioned a feeling of heavy-ness which wont let you awake fully. and you have to kill the inner dialogue. i can kill the dialogue but pictures are coming on they own voluntarily.i never managed to get asleep aware. if someone is experienced or skilled please post here your method. this is very important - the first step to controlled dreams.

thanks in advance

 

[Tigersoap]

Hi Capt Picard,

As far as I am concerned, I've stopped trying to find such experiences altogether because they are not really helping in knowing myself, such experiences just make you think you're special or that you've achieved something esoteric but it's not the case.

Search on the forum for Lucid dreaming for example as it will maybe help you to understand why although it's interesting as an experiment it is not
necessary to pursue such things.

If you're looking for something worthwile to experiment, check out the EE program :)

 

[realitybugll]

such experiences just make you think you're special or that you've achieved something esoteric but it's not the case.

I don't agree with this. I do think that messing around with dreams and astral projection is probably distraction from getting to "know oneself" as you put it. I am really fascinated by the dreaming process from an inquisitive perspective. Also too I think I could develop powers to use for my benefit and this excites me. mostly though I just have the interest from a scientific standpoint. So what I am meaning is that "such experiences" of lucid dreaming and others which Castaneda describes won't necessarily make someone think they are special etc.

The reason I like dreaming is all the interactions with people (especially interactions that I wouldn't have in real life). like the authentic conversations which I can remember parts of and I just think... 'Wow I can't believe my mind created that!'

For me I guess it is an escape from having to do any real work. Instead of putting myself out there, meeting someone, I can just have a dream conversation. but at the same time I'm fascinated with the dreaming. I like to conjecture about it, fit the different pieces together.

I admit I want a 'dreaming emissary' to talk to. do you remember about that?

well, that was some examples. the important thing i want to ask the members of this board is about the technique of falling asleep while aware. don huan mentioned a feeling of heavy-ness which wont let you awake fully. and you have to kill the inner dialogue. i can kill the dialogue but pictures are coming on they own voluntarily.i never managed to get asleep aware. if someone is experienced or skilled please post here your method. this is very important - the first step to controlled dreams.

hmm... I don't know much about you, didn't read your previous posts, anyways... is "the first step to controlled dreams" really "very important" to you? why?
I've had the book 'the art of dreaming' for two years but I can't manage to get even halfway through it. Some methods that Castaneda describes work spectacularly... the techniques seem valid. In lucid dreams for instance I have realized that shifting the focus of the eyes helps tremendously in keeping the dream vivid..and staying lucid. Anyways I am wondering... does Don Juan ever explain what the usefulness of dreaming is? Or does Castaneda discuss this. what can be gained by it.

I think it is interesting that Dreaming does fit into the teachings of Don Juan. From what I read of the book though I am not sure how this is. What I am asking-- is this dreaming that Castaneda does merely to relax and for pleasure--like dreaming is there to help recharge tired sorcerers--or is there practical things that come out of dreaming. of course practical would be subjective. The interesting thing about the Dreaming is that Don Juan will not speak much about it... it is an individual journey. and there is the temptation I guess of the inorganic beings. so-- I think a lot of it is about learning--not just passing through the gates until the assemblage point can be shifted any which way to gain super powers. Maybe the dreaming process and "controlling of dreams" is conducive of learning, beneficial in "knowing oneself".

 

[Tigersoap]

such experiences just make you think you're special or that you've achieved something esoteric but it's not the case.

I don't agree with this. I do think that messing around with dreams and astral projection is probably distraction from getting to "know oneself" as you put it. I am really fascinated by the dreaming process from an inquisitive perspective. Also too I think I could develop powers to use for my benefit and this excites me. mostly though I just have the interest from a scientific standpoint. So what I am meaning is that "such experiences" of lucid dreaming and others which Castaneda describes won't necessarily make someone think they are special etc.

Hi Wetroof,

I am confused by your answer because on one side you agree and on the other you are looking for special experiences through your dreams, that's fine with me though, but it has been said that "it's a jungle out there" with things we can't even begin to understand so to put yourself at risk with conversations and looking for a guide or some unknown entity seems dangereous if you don't know what you're doing osit.

What I am questioning is the basis for such interest in the art of dreaming, I understand the experimental attraction that such activities can propose but after having read Laura's work I understood that if I think I can control anything out there, I am seriously deluded, I am unable to control anything down here in 3D so going out there unprepared is turning myself into a delicious sandwich for hyperdimensional gourmets.

 

[Bar Kochba]

I recall Gurdjieff didn't place much stock in dreaming.

 

[davey72]

I have had sleep paralysis and lucid dreams at times in my life. I don't see m uch on these subjects in the forum.
I am curios if anyone else has sleep paralysis. At first there was always some kind of witchy demon attacking me and I would be paralyzed.I remember the first time it happened. I woke up to being able to open my eyes and seeing my room. there was a beautiful woman hovering in the corner, and she came to me, and took my baby. It was such a nice experience.
Then she turned old and ugly, and to my horror, i realized that that baby was my soul, and i was able to fight her for it. I ended up getting it back.
Lately i have realized that if you lose your fear, that thing wont come around. The first time i did that i was on my back on the bed, and i was able to use the state i was in to meditate and i came out of my body. I could feel myself pulling out, and i could hear what was like a jackhammer, (but it wasn't at all an unpleasant thing). Then i noticed that i was about an inch from my ceiling.

 

[truth seeker]

Also too I think I could develop powers to use for my benefit...

Do you think this could be considered STS?

 

[davey72]

I have been able to have sex when i am in a lucid dream, and while it can be fun, it has always kinda spooked me a little. I wasn't quite sure why, but it was as if these girls that i had never seen before were in disguise, and they were "picking" me for some reason.
Perhaps these entities will do this to steal your sexual energy?er sumthin?

 

[anart]

such experiences just make you think you're special or that you've achieved something esoteric but it's not the case.

I don't agree with this. I do think that messing around with dreams and astral projection is probably distraction from getting to "know oneself" as you put it. I am really fascinated by the dreaming process from an inquisitive perspective. Also too I think I could develop powers to use for my benefit and this excites me. mostly though I just have the interest from a scientific standpoint. So what I am meaning is that "such experiences" of lucid dreaming and others which Castaneda describes won't necessarily make someone think they are special etc.

Hi wetroof, considering what Gurdjieff has said about dreaming and what the C's have said about lucid dreaming, and what advice you've already been given in this thread, why do you think you are so certain you should put your time and energy into 'studying' this? I think you make it pretty clear in the above paragraph. You want 'special powers', which is exactly what Tigersoap was talking about. You won't get 'special powers' - not objectively 'special', at any rate. What you will get is lost deeper in a dream, taking the dream time as more important than reality.

You wrote:

For me I guess it is an escape from having to do any real work. Instead of putting myself out there, meeting someone, I can just have a dream conversation. but at the same time I'm fascinated with the dreaming. I like to conjecture about it, fit the different pieces together.

...which is the truth of the matter - it is an escape into literal dreaming instead of an effort to awaken in objective reality. What, of value, could ever come of that?

Personally, I think dreams can give us insight and guide us, at times, but to lose oneself in them is a very dangerous thing.