Citizen Four - Documentary about Edward Snowden

Jono

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Myself and two friends went to see this film in Liverpool at a cinema that is known for showing quite controversial films.

The film ran for 120 minutes and mainly focused on the week Edward Snowden chose to go public with his leaked information on the NSA and government data collection. As I said to Carlise, it probably could have been condensed to 30 minutes, and was mainly aimed at the Snowden fan club.

I didn't really learn anything new from watching, but it was interesting to see the scale of data collection they are capable of, as well as the simple interfaces the NSA employees use to search for a person's data.

If you don't know much about the NSA, BIG data collection/analysis, and how they have access to pretty much all of our mainstream data (e.g. Facebook, Youtube, Google, Outlook etc), it would be beneficial, OSIT.
 
I always wondered if the Snowman was a CIA plot to get at the NSA, their competitor in the Beltway for funds and attention, as Mr. Ed worked there before spending a little time at the NSA affiliated company, so why has he had nothing to say about his previous employer? It's it odd?
 
'Attention' seems accurate with this whole scenario.

I'm re-listening to the SOTT talk radio show for some other views, even though this whole discussion is a tad out of date now.

NSA PRISM: Neither Privacy Nor Security: _http://www.blogtalkradio.com/sottnet/2013/06/16/nsa-prism-neither-privacy-nor-security
 
I had the opportunity to see this film last week.

It provided a good look at the inside workings of a Whistle blowing done smart. -Probably due to his own entirely justifiable paranoia, Edward Snowden played his hand well and managed to avoid suffering the same fate as others in his position. -Before going public, he spent a lot of time trying to find the right journalists to help him out, and then to establish a safe and encrypted means of communicating with them, and then meeting up in a location where he could tell his story and divulge his information in relative safety.

Even so, he was young and idealistic enough to choose to go public and risk his well-being; he said several times that regardless of his precautions, it was inevitable that his identity would be discovered, and he had high expectations of being captured. This seems quite brave, and you could see his jitters when the big moment of walking out the door of the hotel room to face the world at the end of his week with Glenn Greenwald and company came.

Some of the early rational questions as to his authenticity, I think, were answered in this film. -How he managed to provide such a professional-looking video statement at the outset, (it was shot by the documentary maker), being one. Also, the idea that there is simply too much information to be useful when collecting exabytes of data was put into some context; Snowden described the system used by the NSA, whereby they can pick a name of somebody they want to focus attention on, and instantly access a fully searchable history of every phone call and email ever sent by that person. That seems both 'useful' and plausible.

I think the movie could have been a little stronger; I would have liked to see more clips of the actual leaks from the various world news sources in context with what Snowden might have had to say about them, but otherwise, this was quite educational in terms both of what the NSA has been up to, and what it is like to blow a whistle.

After watching "Kill the Messenger" it was nice to see that Snowden is currently safe in Russia after his efforts.
 
Yeah i've watched it also and thought it was very good, it give's a good overview of what the NSA's capabilities are, if the documentary achieves one thing it brings what was considered by most people a "conspiracy theory" into the "Real world" and the fact it was the Russian's that gave him asylum should say a lot about america. it maybe a good documentary to show people waking up so to speak.
 
It is now known that this Snowden documentary has been rewarded this year's Oscar for best non-fiction film:

_http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/feb/23/edward-snowden-documentary-citizenfour-wins-oscar

Haven't seen it yet and found the above tidbit while searching the web for a copy somewhere. No immediate luck yet.

In stead, I found the official website: _https://citizenfourfilm.com/ where numerous other rewards and prizes are listed.

The IMDb page has many more reviews: _http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4044364/

Now found a copy as well:

A link to a streaming website with the complete docu in English can be found on here: _http://www.slashfilm.com/citizenfour-streaming/

Note: It's not quite clear whether the streaming website itself is genuine and legit although it looks like for real, but the full docu is there ATM -- at least for as long as it lasts maybe.

So caveat watchers.
 
Thanks for the excellent synopsis, Woodsman. :thup: I haven't seen the movie yet, but I did listen to a talk radio program that interviewed a woman involved in making the documentary. She touched on the covert tactics the team applied and also some of their own fears and paranoia's.

Of all the places Snowden could of ended up, he probably lucked out (and doesn't know it?) by landing in Russia. I heard a bit about him wanting to make a deal and come home, but that may have just been propaganda. I certainly wouldn't trust any officials to keep their word if he did attempt such a thing. Sochi looks like a lovely place!
 
I actually have a lot of respect for Ed Snowden, and this film did a good job of showing his intelligence and bravery.

That said, I still think it's likely that the whole "Snowden incident" was planned, though I don't believe he was a willing participant; more likely he was duped into doing what he did.

The effect he had was to shine a light on the intelligence agencies of the world, and that's a nice distraction for the real culprits, the so-called elite (also commonly confused with "the bankers"). I think it's far more likely that the puppeteers behind the scenes orchestrated this as a means of misdirection, to point the focus on someone other than themselves.

With the financial collapse of 2008 it was starting to look like we had a chance to start digging into the powers driving international banking; Snowden "coming out" like he did put an end to that.
 
Coming Soon? Trailer of Long-Awaited Snowden Movie Released Online (Video trailer)
http://sputniknews.com/art_living/20160427/1038728284/snowden-movie.html

The long awaited Hollywood movie about Edward Snowden finally seems to be around the corner.

The first full trailer of the movie starring Joseph Gordon-Levitt has recently been released online.

The movie directed by Oliver Stone tells the true story of ex-CIA employee Edward Snowden, who exposed mass surveillance and collection of data by US and UK intelligence services.

Snowden then had to flee the United States to escape charges of treason and imprisonment.

The movie is based on the first part of the trilogy written by Snowden's lawyer Anatoly Kucherena. The book titled ‘Time of the Octopus' was published in Russian and English in March 2015.

The film release was also originally planned for 2015, but then put off to 2016 before getting postponed again.

The official reason of the delay was that the crew needed more time to finish the movie and didn't want to release it in the rough.


SNOWDEN - Official Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlSAiI3xMh4


Jean-Michel Jarre records with Edward Snowden – after the Guardian brings them together
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/apr/15/jean-michel-jarre-records-with-edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower

The Guardian’s coverage of the Edward Snowden NSA leaks has had a wide variety of repercussions, but perhaps none are as improbable as the latest: a collaboration between the 32-year-old whistleblower and French electronic music pioneer Jean-Michel Jarre, on a techno track to be released this weekend.

“Edward is an absolute hero of our times,” said Jarre, whose piece with Snowden, called Exit, appears on his forthcoming album of collaborations, Electronica Volume II: The Heart Of Noise, the former CIA employee making an unlikely appearance on a list of special guests that also includes the Pet Shop Boys, Gary Numan and rapper Peaches.

The collaboration, which features Snowden speaking, rather than singing, came about after Jarre gave an interview to the Guardian last year, to promote the release of the forthcoming album’s predecessor, Electronica I: The Time Machine. He asked if it would be possible for the paper to put him in touch with Snowden – whose revelations about surveillance carried out by the US National Security Agency were published in the Guardian – for whom he’d devised a “hectic, obsessive techno track, trying to illustrate the idea of this crazy quest for big data on one side and the manhunt for this one young guy by the CIA, NSA and FBI on the other”.

The Guardian passed on a contact for Ben Wisner, Edward Snowden’s solicitor. “I had no idea if he would be interested,” Jarre said of his contact with Wisner, “but he loved the idea, thought Edward would love the idea and put us in contact. I sent him a demo of the music, then had a meeting with Edward over Skype, 90 minutes of conversation, where I gave him the understanding of what I wanted to do, we talked about his situation, the reason why he did what he did, then we recorded his vocals.”

Jarre subsequently travelled to Moscow to meet Snowden. “I wanted to film him, because I want to play the track on stage. I think it’s important if I’m playing at festivals with a young audience that the statements in the track are promoted and exposed. We spent three hours together, we filmed him, we talked about a lot of things.”

Snowden declined to speak to the Guardian about the track, but in the video Jarre shot in Moscow, he claimed to be a fan of electronic music – “The melodies I remember with the most fondness are from video games” – and said he was “really surprised” by contacted by the author of the 12m-selling album Oxygène and holder of the Guinness World Record for attracting the largest concert audience in history. “It was something I wasn’t expecting. As an engineer, someone who’s not really cool, it was something of a treat to collaborate on a big cultural project.”
 
This film (in some places) came out on Friday (it was said on the news if not mistaken). Just prior in the week, Oliver Stone appeared in Canada at the Toronto Film Festival. During his stay he gave at least two (probably more) interviews. One was on CBC Radio, and one on the CBC's National news program; he does not speak kindly of the shenanigans in the U.S. and is couched in what he says of the future.

Video of Oliver Stone on interview link:

Monday September 12, 2016
Oliver Stone on "boy scout"-like Edward Snowden

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/q/schedule-for-monday-september-12-2016-1.3757980/oliver-stone-on-boy-scout-like-edward-snowden-1.3758029

"This movie's time has come. It has to be made."
He joins guest host Candy Palmater in studio to talk about his new film Snowden, in which he examines the polarizing figure and the function of patriotism.

He also speaks with CBC's the National host, Wendy Mesley – Oliver Stone (29:00) - http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/762773571961/

He says to Wendy, based on one of her questions: "Not caring is a response you may come to regret."

With a big grin on her face, Wendy asks Oliver “is it true that you have been hanging out with Putin…is he a hero," she says. Oliver responds with something like "It would be interesting to listen to what he is saying.”
 
I just saw the Snowden film by Oliver Stone and it helped me see I was wrong about him.

I was very negative about him. I saw him as a phony, a fake nerd, haha.
I thought he was in on it from the naivete of him choosing to be in the CIA and then being upset. No, he was an authoritarian follower and thought highly of them. He even tells the CIA interviewer that one of his favorite writers is Ayn Rand.

His girlfriend was quite liberal though. But when he started to become dissallusioned, she was actling like most of the population "who cares if you have nothing to hide".

I still don't buy it that he snuck a SD card in a rubix cube through the body scanners/xray, unless he had help. Well, maybe he thought the other "group" was helping him expose the truth, but had a dark agenda anyway.
 
Well I watched this movie yesterday, and although at the beginning it is quite slow I thought it was pretty good. At the end it really made me feel teary-eyed, SPOILER ALERT: cause while giving this conference I could see he was really passionate about what he did and that he really wanted to expose things, as a journalist I thought about journalism this days, and how we are missing lots of great people that put their hearts into exposing things that will actually help society.

Now what I really was angry about is that, I know Oliver Stone directed it and now he has the Russian citizenship and all that, but isn't it like a Hollywood movie? I've always thought about this with movies that reveal something crooked inside the US government and how they put it out like if it's just that another movie, and I'm sure this has been talked here about how the movie industry has it's own agenda, I'm sure there's a point in all this. I'm not sure if I explain myself he he, but the thing for me is that, IMO I hope that anyone with some sanity in their minds will think that yes the US gov is rotten inside after seeing this and not just worrying about the Snowden character per se.
 
Divide By Zero said:
I just saw the Snowden film by Oliver Stone and it helped me see I was wrong about him.

I was very negative about him. I saw him as a phony, a fake nerd, haha.
I thought he was in on it from the naivete of him choosing to be in the CIA and then being upset. No, he was an authoritarian follower and thought highly of them. He even tells the CIA interviewer that one of his favorite writers is Ayn Rand.

His girlfriend was quite liberal though. But when he started to become dissallusioned, she was actling like most of the population "who cares if you have nothing to hide".

I still don't buy it that he snuck a SD card in a rubix cube through the body scanners/xray, unless he had help. Well, maybe he thought the other "group" was helping him expose the truth, but had a dark agenda anyway.

Interesting that bolded part.

Fwiw, I've not seen the film, and have generally been somewhat reserved on Snowden's claims as there seems to be too many anomalies to contend with - from his past work, data removal, hanging around Hong Kong; which is a nest, in itself, of intelligence operative games, to his meeting up with Glenn Greenwald (and who is associated with him) and so on and so forth. Makes for fascinating reading, and maybe it's true or part true, yet will treat this Snowden affair with a big pinch of salt.

I really don't think the Russian's, Putin especially, would be blind to the possibilities vis via Snowden et al.
 
Yeah it made me have a double take.

I have to judge him, not just from the movie but my first gut instinct of him.

When I see someone flip so hard from that into what he states he believes in (Rand, etc) and the story shown in the movie of being someone who becomes paranoid to the point where he is afraid of his girlfriend posting pictures of herself, I see a schizoidal reaction.

I think that's what the people pulling the strings counted on. A guy who thinks he really is saving people, while he's released jack squat honestly.

Wikileaks guy, I'm not sure, I think he might be less genuine and more of an actor.
 
I am surprised that even knowing details of our mass surveillance, the fact of the "seeing" this in film really disturb to me.
As if the images gave a deeper dimension to the awareness of what I already knew.(Sorry if am I not clear, I have already difficulty to find my words in french, so in english...)

So, I dare to imagine the importance it can have in the eyes of a less informed public. A revelation ? A shock ?

Then, I found it really nice to watch.

A film that really deserved to exist !

Thank you Mr. Stone! ;)
 
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