Climbing

[D Rusak]

Wow, I just had a pretty vivid dream, I used to have dreams like these a lot but rarely recently.

I was visiting a friend and her mentor. It was sort of like this mentor my friend had studied with in real life, except here he was more of a mystic/magician figure (not exactly the same guy but that's probably where I got the idea). We were touring his property/gardens. In real life he has a Japanese garden in his backyard- here it was more like woods around a pond, with very large trees. He was wearing a dark blue robe like a magician and had a long beard (real life guy doesn't). We were walking down the path and he encouraged me to take the first steps on the path myself. My friend was tagging along behind. We walked around this one area where what appeared to be a large tree that was fallen into the pond he pointed out was actually a root of this really large/old tree on the shore. I recognized after he pointed this out that the "tree" in the pond one could walk on and save a little time (not a whole lot, but a little) circumnavigating the pond, if one wanted. We walked a little further and then there was something a few feet from this one tree; I want to say it was like a book- maybe one for identifying plants? (something I've been way interested in the past). Maybe later I will remember. I walked closer to look at the tree and the others came with me. The magician guy mentioned that it was one of the oldest. Then I noticed there was a ladder going up, to presumably what was a tree house. He decided to see how frail he was and started to ascend without fear. It was a really high rope ladder!

At this point the dream shifted and the rope ladder was on the side of a really tall concrete wall. I want to say the building was a good 10 stories high or something, really big, and the ladders went more than halfway. There were also two ladders now, the rope one, which my friend started to climb, and a much more sturdy metal one (painted yellow) with handrails. The magician guy started to climb this. I freaked out since I am afraid of heights, especially climbing to 6 or 7 stories! But we had to climb apparently. I did it mostly by not looking down, not even to place my feet or anything. I did it almost entirely by feel, I couldn't look. Finally I got to the top but it was tricky to get off. I said I needed help and they were like, come on, just figure it out, it's possible. I had to do something. I somehow shimmied around so that instead of holding the two handrails with my hands, I was anchored around one with my foot, so that I could reach over and pull myself through. Then finally someone reached and helped me into what was a small studio apartment decorated in contemporary minimalist style, eg with lots of white, a leather couch, etc. I was so exhausted by the ordeal and just moving around the apartment. I went towards this one side of the apartment that had a bed facing a couch. There was a dog I think asleep on either one of these or the rug, I am not sure. It even might have been a cat. The magician guy said something along the lines of, that's what separates those who make it and those who don't. At this point I was about to break down (crying/mentally) in the dream but here I woke up.

I have recounted some recent issues I've had here http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=21380.0 but now this dream really throws me for a loop. I cannot help but feel that it is significant. I see the beginning of it as one needs a teacher or mentor to help get to a goal. One can do it oneself but a person will save time learning from another who has already been through the experience. And of course I am not sure if I ever would have stumbled upon this guy's garden without knowing him and/or my friend. I guess my friend symbolizes support. In real life she also has gone through a lot of searching the last couple of years and also like me, has moved out of the place she lived her whole life to pursue the study of music more seriously. Her teachers have been really supportive of her though, and as she put it, really "laid out the red carpet for her when she arrived", even if they were really tough at times too. When approaching the concrete side of the building (or wall- this would be like a wall I am up against, an impediment to progress I see no way around?) she took a different ladder to the top than magician guy and me. This could mean she has a different path to take but it ultimately leads to similar goal? I didn't have any help until I really got to the very top. The apartment seemed like a place to recuperate to me. Actually the whole thing was not something I wanted to do but it seemed like I had to, otherwise I would be stranded.

I would appreciate some thoughts if anyone has some.

 

[Ollie]

Hi D Rusak

You seem to be doing ok with your interpretation, just remember that, dream action is about the dynamics of your own life (hopes, fears, questions, conflicts, way out of difficulties, possibilities, etc.) The dream action may use images from experiences of the previous day or so before, as well as others. The dream symbols may be both literal and symbolic interpretations – be curious and naïve in your interpretation.

And, from a Fourth Way perspective,

… Basically, in the deepest (i.e. normal) sleep, there are no dreams. Most dreams are left over energy from one or several of the centers, and the dream content reflects this. Vaysse lists three normal kinds of dreams: associative (reactive/mechanical), compensatory (emotional), and symbolic (higher emotional). (Also telepathic, prophetic, etc.)

So … it's important to know if the dream is actually symbolic and not either of the former options. And even then, your higher self will speak in symbols specific for you, ...

To further help you in your dream interpretation – of what is subjective, unique to you, and whether you recognize the images or not (and they are in you and pertain to you; they are aspects arising in your-self) - here are some questions to ask your-self. They may help, or not.

When you re-experience the experiences in the dream, do they remind you of anything in life?

The setting, what does it feel like there? Does it remind you of anything in current life, any situation in life?

Who is ‘friend’ (tell me on the basis that I don’t know ‘friend’), what is ‘friend’ like? What kind of personality? What does ‘friend’ mean to you? What kind of person might you consider ‘friend’ to be like?

What is ‘friend’ like in your dream? What is ‘friend’ doing in your dream?

What is your working, etc., relationship with ‘friend’ like?

Is there some part of you that is like ‘friend’?

Ask similar questions about ‘her mentor/ mystic/magician figure’.

Positive characters are about strengths and achievements.
Negative characters represent conflicts in life (personification of attitudes, beliefs, habits, etc)

What does the ‘rope ladder’ mean to you? How does it ‘work’? What is it used for? (ask on the basis that I know nothing about it)

What is the ‘rope ladder’ like in your dream? How do you feel about it?

Does ‘rope ladder’ in your dream remind you of anything, any part of you, or anyone in your life? How?

Ask similar questions about ‘sturdy metal one (painted yellow) with handrails’. Ditto re: ‘dark blue robe like a magician’, ‘a long beard’, ‘fallen tree’, and ‘something a few feet from this one tree; I want to say it was like a book- maybe one for identifying plants’.

Imagery is often idiosyncratic yet culturally moulded, for example Victorian houses suggest attitudes held are Victorian, and might be those of the dreamer.

Rooms suggest areas of concern – living = daily living; bed = private, tranquillity, sex, refreshment, etc.

Water is about emotions and spirit of life

The action, events in the dream, what do they remind you of in your waking life?

Think about the dream as you go through the day, and test insights and ideas gained. Understand obvious metaphors. Keep using language and images of dream whenever possible. Interpretations may spring to light. String descriptions together to bridge dream experience to any situation in life. (Ref: adapted from Living Your Dreams by Gayle Delaney)

This may help, or not.

 

[D Rusak]

Hi D Rusak

You seem to be doing ok with your interpretation, just remember that, dream action is about the dynamics of your own life (hopes, fears, questions, conflicts, way out of difficulties, possibilities, etc.) The dream action may use images from experiences of the previous day or so before, as well as others. The dream symbols may be both literal and symbolic interpretations – be curious and naïve in your interpretation.

And, from a Fourth Way perspective,

… Basically, in the deepest (i.e. normal) sleep, there are no dreams. Most dreams are left over energy from one or several of the centers, and the dream content reflects this. Vaysse lists three normal kinds of dreams: associative (reactive/mechanical), compensatory (emotional), and symbolic (higher emotional). (Also telepathic, prophetic, etc.)

So … it's important to know if the dream is actually symbolic and not either of the former options. And even then, your higher self will speak in symbols specific for you, ...

Really good to remember, thanks for reminding me. I would guess the dream is probably some of both at this crisis point for me.

To further help you in your dream interpretation – of what is subjective, unique to you, and whether you recognize the images or not (and they are in you and pertain to you; they are aspects arising in your-self) - here are some questions to ask your-self. They may help, or not.

When you re-experience the experiences in the dream, do they remind you of anything in life?

Not specifically though I enjoy "the woods" and "nature"

The setting, what does it feel like there? Does it remind you of anything in current life, any situation in life?

It was pretty calm and peaceful, though it felt like a little cold undercurrent of spookiness, uncertainty. Something like this. I don't know that it reminds me of anything in life exactly other than the whole dream as a metaphor for stumbling through the wilds en route to a goal/making it. Sort of vague.

Who is ‘friend’ (tell me on the basis that I don’t know ‘friend’), what is ‘friend’ like? What kind of personality? What does ‘friend’ mean to you? What kind of person might you consider ‘friend’ to be like?

The friend in the dream is one of two "best" friends in real life. She is the one of these friends who has gone after her goals a bit more rather than be passive (other friend hate the town she lives in, is sort of not happy with her marriage though at times is ok...now happened to get pregnant, which her spouse never wanted, and is aiming her life around this.). As I mentioned she also is on a similar path to me, a musician who moved out of the place she lived her whole life to pursue studies. She had some really helpful and positive teachers on the way which I didn't have though. Also she is interested in some of the same things I am (though I have found this out coincidentally later)- she finds astrology useful, has developed an interest in some esoteric stuff, UFOs, etc. The only person in real life that I can talk about some of the deeper forum type topics with.

What is ‘friend’ like in your dream? What is ‘friend’ doing in your dream?

She's not really doing much, she's just there as another person on the path with me and magician guy. I don't know if it's commaraderie or companionship she is providing? It is not an active role, she is just there.

What is your working, etc., relationship with ‘friend’ like?

In real life, you mean? She is busier than usual since she was accepted to a university for music study this year. She is busy with studies and has new friends there through school and work, so I don't hear from her as much as before. Still we have a good conversation probably every week or two? And occasional short texts or emails, etc. usually of silly stuff or whatever. Sometimes more like following up on an opportunity or gig that one of us mentioned. She lives about 1500 miles from me presently, midway between my current city and the old one we are both from, so it's far physically.

Is there some part of you that is like ‘friend’?
Ask similar questions about ‘her mentor/ mystic/magician figure’.

I think I mentioned this before about our similar paths and interests. We are different personalities of course but complimentary. As for the real life "magician guy", at least this specific one, it was a weird situation where he would take in a student to live in his place for a year while they were working on some "art"-related project. For my friend this was working up audition repertoire to get accepted to a good music school. This guy was in his 70s, a retired professor of philosophy and Japanese aesthetics and art. He started his career as a classical musician, he went to this top conservatory and then played in an orchestra for a year or couple. He decided it wasn't for him and pursued a different path. To be honest he was a very bitter person and had some pretty rigid views on his definitions of art/music, etc. In certain ways he was very close-minded though he did get his students to achieve their goals and really go through a lot of self-analysis. Both my friend and I felt that during the one visit I had out to see her/him that he wanted to recruit me as a student, but my friend and I also thought it wouldn't be a great fit and there wasn't anything I would really get out of it, it would be pretty irrelevant to any goals I had and sort of nothing for me to do there. So maybe a similarity I have with real life dude (but not magician dude) is this bitterness against life as how it turned out, though I think in some ways this guy really has a lot of Work to do on himself that I've at least started to address, and he seems really not open to or even consider.

Positive characters are about strengths and achievements.
Negative characters represent conflicts in life (personification of attitudes, beliefs, habits, etc)

Neither character was especially positive or negative in the dream. My friend was completely neutral, the magician guy was maybe a tinge positive but mostly neutral.

What does the ‘rope ladder’ mean to you? How does it ‘work’? What is it used for? (ask on the basis that I know nothing about it)

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, I just saw it as part of the path to get where-ever. A symbol for a series of events. Kind of like the steps/staircase/thresholds referred to in the Work.

What is the ‘rope ladder’ like in your dream? How do you feel about it?

It's just a rope ladder. I don't really feel anything about it specifically, I just don't like heights and don't want to climb some ladder to a really high place as I don't like heights. Would be similar for any other thing making me be up high. I guess also since it is not enclosed, one is exposed.

Does ‘rope ladder’ in your dream remind you of anything, any part of you, or anyone in your life? How?

Other than as before where I mentioned it is part of a path to get somewhere, no.

Ask similar questions about ‘sturdy metal one (painted yellow) with handrails’. Ditto re: ‘dark blue robe like a magician’, ‘a long beard’, ‘fallen tree’, and ‘something a few feet from this one tree; I want to say it was like a book- maybe one for identifying plants’.

Really don't know other than how I analyzed it before.

Imagery is often idiosyncratic yet culturally moulded, for example Victorian houses suggest attitudes held are Victorian, and might be those of the dreamer.

Rooms suggest areas of concern – living = daily living; bed = private, tranquillity, sex, refreshment, etc.

Water is about emotions and spirit of life

The action, events in the dream, what do they remind you of in your waking life?

Not really anything as other than the path to achieve something, some goal.

Think about the dream as you go through the day, and test insights and ideas gained. Understand obvious metaphors. Keep using language and images of dream whenever possible. Interpretations may spring to light. String descriptions together to bridge dream experience to any situation in life. (Ref: adapted from Living Your Dreams by Gayle Delaney)

This may help, or not.

Edited quote boxes

 

[RyanX]

We were walking down the path and he encouraged me to take the first steps on the path myself. My friend was tagging along behind.

This seems significant for some reason. Sounds like your dream is telling you here that you need to take the first steps. Wasn't there something you were hessitant about like taking a road trip across country or changing your lifestyle to be more "nomadic"?

At this point the dream shifted and the rope ladder was on the side of a really tall concrete wall. I want to say the building was a good 10 stories high or something, really big, and the ladders went more than halfway. There were also two ladders now, the rope one, which my friend started to climb, and a much more sturdy metal one (painted yellow) with handrails. The magician guy started to climb this. I freaked out since I am afraid of heights, especially climbing to 6 or 7 stories! But we had to climb apparently. I did it mostly by not looking down, not even to place my feet or anything. I did it almost entirely by feel, I couldn't look. Finally I got to the top but it was tricky to get off. I said I needed help and they were like, come on, just figure it out, it's possible. I had to do something. I somehow shimmied around so that instead of holding the two handrails with my hands, I was anchored around one with my foot, so that I could reach over and pull myself through. Then finally someone reached and helped me into what was a small studio apartment decorated in contemporary minimalist style, eg with lots of white, a leather couch, etc. I was so exhausted by the ordeal and just moving around the apartment. I went towards this one side of the apartment that had a bed facing a couch. There was a dog I think asleep on either one of these or the rug, I am not sure. It even might have been a cat. The magician guy said something along the lines of, that's what separates those who make it and those who don't. At this point I was about to break down (crying/mentally) in the dream but here I woke up.

A ladder is pretty symbolic. You had to do all the work and it wasn't until you got to the top that you received a helping hand. Ascending to higher levels of knowledge and being (i.e. climbing the ladder) can be a scary thing and typically one must face their deepest darkest fears to do so. As your friend said, "that's what separates those who make it and those who don't".

From what I've read from your posts recently it sounds very much like you are going through a transition in life. The dream, in a nutshell, seems to be telling you to get on your path and conquer your fears - whatever those are.

Just my $0.02

 

[D Rusak]

We were walking down the path and he encouraged me to take the first steps on the path myself. My friend was tagging along behind.

This seems significant for some reason. Sounds like your dream is telling you here that you need to take the first steps. Wasn't there something you were hessitant about like taking a road trip across country or changing your lifestyle to be more "nomadic"?

I'd love to take a road trip cross country. The only thing I was hesitant about was that in doing so I'd be leaving/giving up on work here in this new town. Now it's a moot point though, took my car in and the transmission is going to go any day now. Taking it cross-country is out the question unfortunately, and a rental is way too expensive. I'll look into more options this weekend when I will make a final decision whether to stay or leave (based on if I get this job or not)
Changing my lifestyle to be more nomadic- I'm not sure if it's exactly hesitation, but wanting to see if it's viable or not. I don't think it's anything I can prepare for too much though, it will be more that I am open to something like this now, if it happens, it happens.

At this point the dream shifted and the rope ladder was on the side of a really tall concrete wall. I want to say the building was a good 10 stories high or something, really big, and the ladders went more than halfway. There were also two ladders now, the rope one, which my friend started to climb, and a much more sturdy metal one (painted yellow) with handrails. The magician guy started to climb this. I freaked out since I am afraid of heights, especially climbing to 6 or 7 stories! But we had to climb apparently. I did it mostly by not looking down, not even to place my feet or anything. I did it almost entirely by feel, I couldn't look. Finally I got to the top but it was tricky to get off. I said I needed help and they were like, come on, just figure it out, it's possible. I had to do something. I somehow shimmied around so that instead of holding the two handrails with my hands, I was anchored around one with my foot, so that I could reach over and pull myself through. Then finally someone reached and helped me into what was a small studio apartment decorated in contemporary minimalist style, eg with lots of white, a leather couch, etc. I was so exhausted by the ordeal and just moving around the apartment. I went towards this one side of the apartment that had a bed facing a couch. There was a dog I think asleep on either one of these or the rug, I am not sure. It even might have been a cat. The magician guy said something along the lines of, that's what separates those who make it and those who don't. At this point I was about to break down (crying/mentally) in the dream but here I woke up.

A ladder is pretty symbolic. You had to do all the work and it wasn't until you got to the top that you received a helping hand. Ascending to higher levels of knowledge and being (i.e. climbing the ladder) can be a scary thing and typically one must face their deepest darkest fears to do so. As your friend said, "that's what separates those who make it and those who don't".

From what I've read from your posts recently it sounds very much like you are going through a transition in life. The dream, in a nutshell, seems to be telling you to get on your path and conquer your fears - whatever those are.

Just my $0.02

Thanks for the insights. I just wish I had any idea of what my path was!!

 

[RedFox]

I just wish I had any idea of what my path was!!

Describe the paths in the dream in as much detail as you can (sight, sound, texture, smell, thought, feeling)....especially the one where you made the first step.

The log/root across the pond seems to indicate the path (you are on or will take) has a messy way or a slightly easier way to get to you're goal.
The ladders and the wall also indicate the same.....two paths to the same place, one being more sturdy (less muddy/wet/dangerous).

It may be you have to walk the muddy path a while in order to fully 'see' the 'easier' path (even though you've had it pointed out the other path is 'easier'). Both require the same amount of work/effort though....although maybe one can be done quicker?
The old rope ladder may be an old dream you had or old program.....something you may need to test before you change paths. The strong ladder will be a clearly laid out path that feels safer by comparison (and requires less effort than climbing a rope ladder).
The 'easier' path will probably look like it will only take you so far....and beyond that you can't see the step needed to reach you're goal.....the dream is saying that help will be offered when you reach this point....because you are able to put yourself out on a limb (even though you are terrified you will 'fall'/fail) to reach that help.

As you're friend was taking the other path, it's possible that comparing what you want to do to reach you're goal, and how they reached their goal is a good indicator of what path to take....i.e. don't take theirs!

So the important parts are the goal...and the feel of the path you see in your life in comparison to the paths in the dreams. How do they compare emotionally? fwiw