clueless.

abstract

Dagobah Resident
Hey, all.

To make a long story short, I'm back to square one on this whole career deal.

I didn't finish high school, so i got a GED.

Then I went to community college, and got kicked out for bad grades.

Then I went to tech school, and got kicked out for attendance.

Sooo basically I'm at a total loss here. I was intending to finish school...both times...and it just didn't happen.

That's the gist of it. Any ideas? Yeah, i know, the above doesn't tell you much, but if I try to explain everything in one

sitting I'll confuse myself, so I'd prefer to just give details as we go. I don't even know where to start on

trying to figure all this out. I really don't think I can handle doing more school...i'll just get kicked out again...but if

I don't go then I don't get the fancy smanshy piece of paper...ugh...this just sucks.
 
abstract said:
Any ideas?

I'm not sure what you're asking for abstract, but I'll go ahead and give you my 2 cents. If you are going to attend college, you should be 100% committed. It does not sound like you are very close to that commitment level. You have to put in the work to gain the reward. There's no other way around it. If you choose not to attend or do your required work, then you are wasting your time, money, energy, etc. If your intent upon entering higher education is to do it merely for the reward, you probably won't be motivated to do ALL that is required on the way to obtaining it. OSIT.
 
I'm not sure what you're asking for abstract, but I'll go ahead and give you my 2 cents. If you are going to attend college, you should be 100% committed. It does not sound like you are very close to that commitment level. You have to put in the work to gain the reward. There's no other way around it. If you choose not to attend or do your required work, then you are wasting your time, money, energy, etc. If your intent upon entering higher education is to do it merely for the reward, you probably won't be motivated to do ALL that is required on the way to obtaining it. OSIT.

I understand all that. That isn't my issue here. It's more complicated and I don't have time to talk about it right this second, i gotta go to work...but I'll be back later to explain more if anyone cares to hear it.

Mainly I just can't find anything I really feel like putting effort into...but i really need to explain more about it all.
 
abstract said:
Mainly I just can't find anything I really feel like putting effort into...

Perhaps you're looking in the wrong place?

For example, with a commitment to the Work – self-development, self-knowledge, etc. – then the outer circumstances are not as important as the way you deal with them internally.

Have you read Meetings with Remarkable Men by Gurdjieff? You might gain some insights into the above idea from reading that book.

I may be completely wrong, but this also sounds like a self-important program: 'I don't feel like it'. It's all about 'I'. Do you think of yourself as deserving something better when you look around at the opportunities that are available?

abstract said:
. . . but i really need to explain more about it all.

More data would be quite useful also, I think.
 
abstract said:
Mainly I just can't find anything I really feel like putting effort into...

The last I recall your living circumstances came with extremely limited options. Maybe you could survey more of the 'landscape' where you have not looked and allow for a possibility of moving if necessary? Don't leave anything out of the picture as if you believed in your apparent limitations.

A piece of advice I once read somewhere: "Keep looking until something triggers an implicit memory of something you've always wanted to do since early childhood."
 
Hello abstract,

Firstly, I don't know what you say are the complicated details. But please allow me an attempt of friendly encouragement.

You probably feel like it sucks right now, eh? Not to worry, nobody said life is fair did they? As far as a career, this is totally up to YOU. How is that current paycheck? Pissed off? Is that okay with you? Granted, we gotta live in this world. Point is: What do you want to get paid for and be happy? (added later: What would someone pay you to do) No pipe dreams man, be real. What do you love to do and is there a job kinda like that? Go down to the library and ask for help in finding job titles and descriptions. Occupational handbooks and outlooks. Do the work. Is there anything interesting? If & when found, next... How do you get there? What must be done to get there? You are young. There world is in front of you. Think hard... How bad do you want it. Think hard of that FIRST paycheck on the job you dream of. No matter how tough education is: Dream of that FIRST paycheck.!.!.! That's how I got though the pain of underemployment with my pregnant wife, kids, and poverty. Always , always remember to visualize that first paycheck, IN YOUR HAND. This can be done. As The Offspring said: YOU CAN DO IT.

I have been there and done that. But 35 or so years ago was a different world than today. This I understand.

edit:

Come to think, you are musically inclined. Perhaps take a few accounting courses, get help to professionally write a business plan, go to the SBA (Small Business Admin.), get a loan, and open up a music shop/store. Instruments or equipment, combinations thereof, or something like that.?.?.? Just trying to help... For some compelling reason...
 
abstract said:
Hey, all.

To make a long story short, I'm back to square one on this whole career deal.

I didn't finish high school, so i got a GED.

Then I went to community college, and got kicked out for bad grades.

Then I went to tech school, and got kicked out for attendance.

Sooo basically I'm at a total loss here. I was intending to finish school...both times...and it just didn't happen.

That's the gist of it. Any ideas? Yeah, i know, the above doesn't tell you much, but if I try to explain everything in one

sitting I'll confuse myself, so I'd prefer to just give details as we go. I don't even know where to start on

trying to figure all this out. I really don't think I can handle doing more school...i'll just get kicked out again...but if

I don't go then I don't get the fancy smanshy piece of paper...ugh...this just sucks.

How is your diet? . Looks to me , you are in depressed mood. search forum on depression and seratonin . By the way Writing is the good way to figure it out. Finish the writing. Look at the cognitive science threads There is Lot of useful info. on how our mind deceives us and how to come out of trauma.
 
seek10 said:
By the way Writing is the good way to figure it out. Finish the writing. Look at the cognitive science threads There is Lot of useful info. on how our mind deceives us and how to come out of trauma.

Particularly the Redirect thread might be helpful. In your case I would suggest reading the entire book (Redirect, by Timothy Wilson), as it covers a lot of examples of student behavior, academic performance, etc.
 
abstract said:
Then I went to community college, and got kicked out for bad grades.

Then I went to tech school, and got kicked out for attendance.

I was intending to finish school...both times...and it just didn't happen.

I really don't think I can handle doing more school...i'll just get kicked out again...

Hi abstract,

Getting kicked out of school doesn't happen automatically, so your behavior- what you choose to do or not do- is largely what gives that result.

Maybe school is not for you. But if you sincerely want to change something about the results you get from trying to do whatever you set out to do, you are going to have to be willing to make changes in your own behavior. If you're not willing or able to start there, and consistently make choices that support your goal instead of choices that don't, nothing is going to change.
 
Is going to school something that you do to fulfill either an internal or external expectation?

Do you choose your study subjects with an attitude of 'that'll do' or do you choose your study subjects because you simply cannot stand not learning about them?
 
Hi, abstract. You've been given some good advise already. I'll just add my own experience and maybe it'll help give you a better perspective.

I've always hated school, beginning with kindergarten. However, I always got good grades and was able to get through it. I had a way of looking at it up until I graduated high school that was basically like prison. I did my time and never thought about school outside of school hours.

Then I went to college and loved the first two years because I was there as my own choice and could study whatever I wanted. I learned quite a lot in college that didn't necessarily have any direct connection to a career. Just learning about things that interested me for its own sake. That's the part I loved. My college had a huge library and I also ran into a couple of professors that really opened up new worlds to explore.

But there's all sorts of stifling aspects to formal education too. There's still a strong pressure to conform to preconceived "templates." And it can negatively reinforce false personality if you don't notice the self-important "intellectual" attitude that can be injected into you.

But the point I wanted to make is that when I got to college, I was there because I wanted to be, not because I had to be. So I hardly ever cut classes like I used to do in grammar school and high school every chance I got. My attitude was totally different because I really tried to learn all I could and was paying for it in tuition and time that I didn't have to.

It would really help if you could write down what interests you and see if it would be best to learn it in a school setting or get on the job training, etc. Hope this helps some.

By the way, I strongly agree that diet and the Psychology and Cognitive Science reading will make a huge difference in getting yourself oriented, as well.
 
Hey again. Just back from work here.

I've read the responses so far and I appreciate them. First I want to give some more information

on what transpired, then address your responses. So here's the story of community college:


My first semester I took three classes: history, math, and reading. In math I finished the semester with an A. In

reading, a B, but in history I got an F. T'chyea...so how'd that happen? The only grades in that class were the tests.

Every class (once a week) there were lectures and you basically just came to class and took notes. Every few classes,

there'd be a test. I got an F on the first test. I was pretty upset. I knew that I took notes, I swore that i had read

them over and over, I came to the classes, I listened to the lectures, I put the information into my brain the best I could!

So why the F? I was stunned. I LIKED coming to that class! Anyway, I decided I needed just to work harder. After all,

my other classes were working out fine. So I worked harder, and on the next test I got a C. I felt motivated by

that improvement, so I decided I would study extremely hard for the 3rd and final test, and failed it. I even turned

in extra credit, and I still failed history class.

My math and reading classes though, were actually remedial classes so their official titles would be

basic math and reading 1. They make you take them if you've been out of highschool for a while, which i had

been out for 3 years at the time. I've always had a lot of trouble with math anyway, so i really needed that

just for mental refreshment. The reading class however, was a joke for me. It was like being in 9nth grade again.

Read a book, quiz over it, do vocabulary worksheets, I could have done the whole semester's stuff in a

couple of weeks if they'd let me...but they won't. I'm getting off track here, sorry...


So the result of getting an F was being put on academic probation, which is determined by your GPA, meaning that if you

get more bad grades, they kick you out. Normally, an A and B with an F wouldn't have had this effect, but since

the remedial classes didn't count for real, actual course credits, they were not included in the GPA equation.

So next semester I take the summer courses, which are condensed so they do things in half the time.

I thought I would continue with my math in basic algebra and take the non-majors biology course.

I didn't fail either of these classes, but i got sick right in the middle of the semester with a darn cold and was

pounding the vitamin C, and i missed a few classes because of that. So I ended up with a C in biology and a D

in algebra. I worked really hard for the algebra class, too. I even spent spare time with my buddy

(who is much more math competent than me) having him explain how all the equations worked, and he

helped me with my take-home quizzes but by the final test, I didn't know enough from the days I missed

to pass it.

So my GPA caused them to block me from registration after those grades went in.


After all that, I couldn't just stop going to school, i had no time to rethink things. I had to fulfill the

requirement set forth by my dad that if I live in his house I have to go to school. So I thought

"OK...maybe i could try tech school...", and I went down to the tech school and signed up for the

carpentry program. Long story short, first semester went OK...I didn't hate it but I wasn't super interested either.

It was difficult to go to school early in the morning and then turn around and work my night schedule.

Second semester was when I didn't really wanna show up. The teacher wasn't even giving us stuff to do, and

most of the class was composed of highschoolers. It's really hard to read and study when the person next

to you is watching videos on their smartphone. I wouldn't have wanted to go back for the second year anyhow,

the construction industry just doesn't seem like my thing at all.

So that is where i'm at right now.
 
Hi Abstract,
Most US K-12 education systems no longer adequately prepare students for college—even community college. Depending on location, about half or better of all students entering CC need additional instruction in the basics of reading, math, and writing. It is criminal that US students are given a High School diploma when a majority lack these basic skills, but that is another discussion.

A result of this is students are often shocked to find how difficult college level work is outside of the developmental, non-credit, remedial courses; and often fail the full credit courses until they learn how to learn. There are many paths to achieving improved study skills and acquiring the ability to learn: finding tutors for every subject, using the library resources, meeting with the instructor, asking questions and for help in class; but they all require self-motivation. Higher Ed. in the US is a gate-keeping system.
If you want the prize of a higher ed. degree so you can move up the levels of play, then you have to learn how to learn first and learn how the system (game) works.

Consider the skills necessary to learn how to learn alone worth achieving, as they will help you negotiate the very real Matrix that we live in. I often show the first forty minutes or so of The Matrix on the first day of my Composition and Literature classes to make the point that what this class really is about is learning to think critically, form rational arguments, see what lies beneath the surface of things, and to clearly communicate your analyses in writing. The world is a text that can be read if you have the analytical skills to do so. Without these skills, you will be shepherded around and taught what to believe and how to behave in order to get the meager rewards that will keep the working class showing up to work, paying their taxes, and dieing to preserve a system that sucks their energy from birth to death.

SeekinTruth
“But there's all sorts of stifling aspects to formal education too. There's still a strong pressure to conform to preconceived "templates." And it can negatively reinforce false personality if you don't notice the self-important "intellectual" attitude that can be injected into you.”

Indeed there is, and ironically, the very critical learning skills you can learn in college will help you sort through the indoctrinating propaganda also present in higher ed. if you are vigilant, keep an open mind, question everything (more or less), develop discernment, and seek out proof so you can “know” rather than simply “believe.”

SeekinTruth
”But the point I wanted to make is that when I got to college, I was there because I wanted to be, not because I had to be.”

Required. You have to want the red pill path even knowing how hard it will be. “There is no free lunch.” The cost of these skills is hard work and perseverance. I often have students leave for a few years and then come back determine to learn. Most people who have success with college level learning achieve it from perseverance not some innate brilliance in their personalities.

College can be the one of biggest Petty Tyrants the majority of the 99% encounter.
Become a Warrior—learn how to learn and how to resist the traps of the Matrix.
Good Luck,
shellycheval
 
Hi abstract,

Others have great advises for you to heed. I'll give my thoughts on this and my college experiences.

abstract said:
My first semester I took three classes: history, math, and reading. In math I finished the semester with an A. In reading, a B, but in history I got an F. T'chyea...so how'd that happen? The only grades in that class were the tests. Every class (once a week) there were lectures and you basically just came to class and took notes. Every few classes, there'd be a test. I got an F on the first test. I was pretty upset. I knew that I took notes, I swore that i had read them over and over, I came to the classes, I listened to the lectures, I put the information into my brain the best I could!

I can tell you that taking History classes in college (and at an university) are the hardest for me, in terms of assignments/tests. I took about 20 History classes (along with other electives) to obtain my Bachelor of Arts in History and none of them was an A. Just low B's and high C's. When I knew from the beginning in one history class that I was going to get an D or F, I dropped it before being given a "withdrawal" status. Also, when I registered for each of the classes that I have taken, I spent a month before the start of the new semester in inquiring about the teachers and how they graded. Are they worst, easy, or reasonable? Basically, I have talked to a number of students who have taken their classes and weighed out the pro's and con's (especially what was being graded and how they are being graded). In other words, networking.

I've learned the hard way that if the teacher is "easy," meaning that the class was "fun" and "enjoyable" and the teacher was "nice," then the grade would be the hardest or would be the lowest and no curve. They are the strictest graders. For an example, one history class, I had an Asian professor who had a PowerPoint presentation. I really, really, really enjoyed the class but all the class had was four tests with only 25 questions with four points each (true/false and multiple questions) and those four tests totaled to a class grade. I had worked hardest for each tests, no matter what, but still ended up with a low C for the class. No extra credit. No do-over.

I still got my BA. While the core courses were low in grades, the other electives (such as English, Latin, Theatre, Psychology, Math, etc.) were highest in grades to compensate for the requirements met for graduation.

Believe you me. I was not exactly a "smart" student; I was a "retard." I graduated from high school, which was a small private school for those who have personality disorders (but I was only there for 4-1 ratio in students-teacher due to my hearing disability). When I went to a local community college due to my mother's push, I've entered for a certification in Graphic Design. When I graduated from high school, that was when I have found out, to my shock, that when I graduated, I actually graduated from 8-grade level, not 12-grade level. They had no Algebra, Geometry, any foreign, or any classes that was taught in a regular high school. Plus, none of the teachers (except for one, who later became my mentor and quit that school after I graduated) and principals expected their students to go to college. None of the students did except for me at that time. After that, I became extremely motivated to learn more and to "catch up." In other words, I was very angry of being so far behind and wanted to "prove them wrong."

So, I spent three-plus years in community college and three years in an university to get two associate's and a bachelor's without any break (I was the first in my family to get a college degree, let alone three - another motivation). What got me into History was my curiosity due to my own research into family history. I didn't expect the strict grading, though. In my first year at the community college, I took all the "pre"-credit courses, which are basic Math, English, Reading (like yours). They had levels of these, like 060 up to 090, with the last as being an "advanced basic" before English 101, a credit course.

My mother wanted me to go to college and get like a few basic classes in English, Reading, Math and get a couple of classes in computer for Graphic Design while working at a grocery store. I would stay a year or two in college. She knew that I have an artistic skill and wanted me to put it in a good use. But, when I found out about the grade level at my high school and seeing how far behind I was, I took as many classes that I could in each semester and dropped the certification to obtain an associate's degree. It was my choice to keep going and keep learning, and I chose to expand myself. That was my turning point. I was 19.

Now, I am working on a certification in Library Cataloging and I'll be done in May (by my 31st birthday). My experiences in college has helped me with these current classes and the strict grading haven't changed, apparently.

abstract said:
So why the F? I was stunned. I LIKED coming to that class! Anyway, I decided I needed just to work harder. After all, my other classes were working out fine. So I worked harder, and on the next test I got a C. I felt motivated by that improvement, so I decided I would study extremely hard for the 3rd and final test, and failed it. I even turned in extra credit, and I still failed history class.

Had you talked to the teacher about the tests and what you can do for further improvement? If the first test you got was a fail, ask the teacher what was wrong or did you got the test back with notes on certain question? In some classes that I remembered, we had a "post-test" class day when we discussed the test after the fact where we go question by question in detail - that way, you'd know what you did wrong and what you can do more on it. That was helpful, for me at least. I don't know if your classes ever had a "post-test" class day.

Do you know what you can do to study more? Was there a "study" group that you could join to discuss the topics with the classmates from your classes?

I do know that, in US (are you in US?), if you got an "F" in one class, you can re-take that same class to make up for it. Of course, it's only one try.

abstract said:
My math and reading classes though, were actually remedial classes so their official titles would be basic math and reading 1. They make you take them if you've been out of highschool for a while, which i had been out for 3 years at the time. I've always had a lot of trouble with math anyway, so i really needed that just for mental refreshment. The reading class however, was a joke for me. It was like being in 9nth grade again. Read a book, quiz over it, do vocabulary worksheets, I could have done the whole semester's stuff in a couple of weeks if they'd let me...but they won't.

I took the same basic classes, as I've said above (but in my case, it was new to me), but if it's something you already learned (i.e., reading class), you should not have to be "hasty" about it. If they said that you should take it for requirement or whatever, take it and ace it. Take it for their consideration and they will know that you know the basics, even though it may not be added to your GPA. It can be more of your attitude toward the taking of this class than the class itself that you can improve yourself, I think.

abstract said:
So the result of getting an F was being put on academic probation, which is determined by your GPA, meaning that if you get more bad grades, they kick you out. Normally, an A and B with an F wouldn't have had this effect, but since the remedial classes didn't count for real, actual course credits, they were not included in the GPA equation.

Yes, that is true because basic classes are "pre"-credit courses (non-GPA count). Would you be able to re-take that failed class to improve the grade? If you do, that failed class will be replaced by the higher grade. That way, you can improve the GPA.

abstract said:
After all that, I couldn't just stop going to school, i had no time to rethink things. I had to fulfill the requirement set forth by my dad that if I live in his house I have to go to school. So I thought "OK...maybe i could try tech school...", and I went down to the tech school and signed up for the carpentry program. Long story short, first semester went OK...I didn't hate it but I wasn't super interested either.

It was difficult to go to school early in the morning and then turn around and work my night schedule. Second semester was when I didn't really wanna show up. The teacher wasn't even giving us stuff to do, and most of the class was composed of highschoolers. It's really hard to read and study when the person next to you is watching videos on their smartphone. I wouldn't have wanted to go back for the second year anyhow, the construction industry just doesn't seem like my thing at all.

So that is where i'm at right now.

I can see why you would be unmotivated to be in a tech school. I haven't been to one but it's just a place you can learn a new set of skills in a manual labor field.

Would you be able to talk to the people at the Registration office at CC or your academic faculty advisers about re-taking that failed class? If you're still on an academic probation, you can still talk to your adviser more on what you can do to improve your GPA. Maybe taking additional classes like Psychology (considering the fact that we all here about psychology), Sociology, or even PE?

Indeed, an academic probation is like a wall hindering your learning growth, but walls are meant to be broken.

shellycheval said:
A result of this is students are often shocked to find how difficult college level work is outside of the developmental, non-credit, remedial courses; and often fail the full credit courses until they learn how to learn. There are many paths to achieving improved study skills and acquiring the ability to learn: finding tutors for every subject, using the library resources, meeting with the instructor, asking questions and for help in class; but they all require self-motivation. Higher Ed. in the US is a gate-keeping system.

I agree with the above as it's my experience as well. I had to use every resources available as mentioned and used the disability service at the college (i.e., note-takers). What was interesting, in my first year of college, I have had classmates telling me that these resources mentioned are for "wuss" or "stupid." Something about these resources made some of the students to feel "uncool" - something might have been brought over from high school (social groups mentality).

Good thing that I was alienated from my peers in high school. :rolleyes:

shellycheval said:
SeekinTruth
“But there's all sorts of stifling aspects to formal education too. There's still a strong pressure to conform to preconceived "templates." And it can negatively reinforce false personality if you don't notice the self-important "intellectual" attitude that can be injected into you.”

Indeed there is, and ironically, the very critical learning skills you can learn in college will help you sort through the indoctrinating propaganda also present in higher ed. if you are vigilant, keep an open mind, question everything (more or less), develop discernment, and seek out proof so you can “know” rather than simply “believe.”

No doubt.

shellycheval said:
College can be the one of biggest Petty Tyrants the majority of the 99% encounter.
Become a Warrior—learn how to learn and how to resist the traps of the Matrix.

That is a great way to see it - College as a Petty Tyrant.
 
Well what do you want to do? In your posts I might have missed it but you never stated what you wan't to do...Do you know?? You did say that your dad basically made you go to school. Never said it was your desire for advanced education.

"I could have done the whole semester's stuff in a

couple of weeks if they'd let me...but they won't."

Be careful with this...Don't wan't to develop an im better then this attitude might hinder your motivation. Maybe you could of done the semester in a week but thats not how it works. You have to expect that going in...Have to accept it and if not change your situation or you could subcounsiously sabitoge your efforts so you are out of the situation anyway and you can say it didn't work out or its complicated.

It had been my experience that you don't need to go to college to be successful. I have my masters and im going for a post graduate degree and ive been looking for a full time teaching job for 3-4 years now. If I could do it again after high school. I would have worked for UPS or something like that with good retirement, union, decent pay. Would of saved 4-6 years of tuition and I would have been working at a full time job for 8 years now as of now I am a chauffeur. I love it its great for now but you don't need no college education for this...

I think the biggest thing here is that you havent stated what you wan't or possible ideas with a plan of action.

Also with Failing History...You got a F...C...F + extra credit and the teachers still gave you an F...That seems on the harsh side...Did you talk to the teacher did you show him or her your wanting to NOT fail. Maybe ask for extra help meet with them once a week during office hours...I like the saying "If theres a will theres a way."
 
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