Creative Use of Emotion - Swami Rama & Swami Ajaya

Denis

Jedi Master
Approx. 5 months ago a friend of mine gave me this book as a gift and I really enjoyed reading it. I also find it to be very useful in terms of personal growth and development, similar to what I feel this forum and its content provides to the ones who are honestly seeking the truth and who are willing to embark on their own journey towards self discovery. So I've decided to share this information here, I find this book has a priceless educational value and I am interested to hear your own unique perspectives and understandings on its content.

I will take the time to paste here a few excerpts from the book so you can gain some insight...

The expansion of consciousness - A new perspective

Imagine that you are lost in a deep valley, surrounded by thickly growing bushes and trees. You are able to see a short distance ahead and on the sides, because of the dense forest surrounding you. You are preoccupied with protecting yourself and satisfying your immediate needs. You are concerned with finding water, food, shelter and protections from the animals. You feel frightened and desperate, wondering how you will ever find your way out.
After a considerable struggle you finally climb to the top of the ridge surrounding the valley. There your field of awareness is extended and you can look down to where you were previously standing. From this higher point you see a winding stream and some fruit trees just a short distance off from where you had been. When you were in the valley the water and trees were unknown. For you they did not exist. The fear of suffering from thirst and hunger was very real to you then. But from a larger perspective at the top of the ridge you can see that there was no need to be concerned at all. Your problems were created by your own imagination by the narrowness of your perception.
From the ridge where you are now standing you can see even higher plateaus surrounding you, and you wonder what lies beyond them. Though your perspective is greater than it was before, it is still far from all encompassing. You are still preoccupied with finding your way out of the wilderness and seeking shelter. Though your field of vision has been enlarged and your anxieties somewhat reduced, many uncertainties remain. So you begin to make your way toward a higher vantage point. It takes considerable time and effort to reach it, but when you finally climb, exhausted, to the top of a large hill, your efforts are rewarded by a still greater perspective and you are overjoyed to see in the distance a trail and beyond it, still further, the smoke of some tents of some campers.
Each time that you climb to a higher vantage point the range of your vision is enlarged and your understanding of the entire situation is altered. You see things from a more encompassing perspective which allows you to be less concerned and anxious and enables you to relate to your environment in terms of how it really is rather than in terms of how you imagined it to be from a more limited point of view.

On individual Growth and development:

The expansion of consciousness does not merely lie in the quantitative accumulation of experiences but in a qualitative change in the person who is experiencing. The path of development, be it the development of an individual or of mankind as a whole, is nothing but a gradual and progressive expansion of awareness. The entire process of human development is thus a process of broadening our perspective. When awareness expands and we start establishing ourselves in our true nature, we find that we can rise above all pains and pleasures. As we evolve, there will be less self-preoccupation and more concern for others. Thus the evolution of consciousness is not annihilation but an expansion of identity. The main point of yoga psychology is for us to understand that the center of self ­consciousness is different from the thought patterns. As long as we look towards others, towards objects or experiences to provide answers to life's riddles, we will go on experiencing confusion, for it is a situation in which the blind are leading the blind. Each and every one of us is on a journey. Our destination is a state in which our identity is not narrowly confined but embraces all. This is the underlying goal that each of us has, the ultimate purpose of our existence. Seeing the horizon from a narrow window is different from seeing the horizon from the roof. The secret of playing one's role in life is in knowing the technique of it and yet living above the role. Whether one is in isolation or amidst a multitude of worldly activities, the opportunity to grow and develop presents itself in every situation. It is not necessary to escape from a personal predicament in order to have the proper atmosphere for growth. The really crucial thing is how we deal with the situations that are going on inside our heads. Whether we find happiness and joy in life depends on what attitude we assume toward our role in this grand drama. If we can see in every experience the potential for learning, we can use every situation in a constructive way. When we develop a more neutral attitude and become less identified with our role, then we can open ourselves to being able to see how other people are experiencing the world.

On understanding children :

Despite what modern psychology teaches about the overriding importance of family influence, people who have observed young children are immediately struck by the inexplicable differences between one child and another in the same family. Psychologists try to account for this through explanation of differences in body, brain or genetic inheritance and then also suggest that family environment is never quite the same for any two children. However, those who are around children find that the differences between siblings is often so great that the aforementioned factors, important as they may be, never seem to adequately explain or account for this. The notion that the child may bring its own innate tendencies (vasanas) into the present birth seems to fit the facts more closely. This understanding would tremendously help in seeing the child as an individual who has come to them with his own separate history and unique personality. A sense of possessiveness would greatly diminish. Relationships will become more open, nurturing and harmonious.

On concept of freedom:

Despite our conviction that we are free, that we have freedom of choice, each one of us upon careful examination will find that we are, in fact, slaves to our emotions, to irrational impulses, to habits, and to desires for sensual pleasure and comfort. We are entrapped in the drama of our existence, and all the while we mock ourselves with the protest that we are free individuals. Whenever there is an increase in freedom there is also a corresponding increase in responsibility; that freedom only exists in the context of responsibility. It does not make sense to talk about freedom alone, for the two, freedom and responsibility, always go hand in hand and one cannot exist without the other. We will find that the whole of our natural world is arranged in this way that freedom exists only in proportion to the amount of responsibility that we assume. Anger is a violent emotion without reason. Reason disappears when one gets angry. The faculty of discrimination between right and wrong does not function. It is possible to be forceful and dynamic and to control someone who is aggressive towards you without yourself getting aroused. The more we approach any situation with doubt and fear, the more likely it is that the very thing we fear will come about. In life, we find two principles; one is expansion and another is contraction. If one learns to expand one's consciousness by selfless action, speech and thoughts, one can attain the highest rank in human life. But if one becomes selfish, one can contract his vision, thinking, and entire living by leading a miserable life.

Love and Joy

Joy is the first- born of love. LIFE WITHOUT JOY IS A LIGHT WHICH SHINES ONLY FOR THE DEAD. Joy is very necessary for maintaining harmony within oneself and in one's relationships in the world, at home and in society. So live life with Joy.
 
Denis,
I would be very wary of this kind of guru and his sweet soothing teachings that are about as nutritionally valuable to the soul as sugar is to the body. If you search on the forum you will find that a lot of these "spiritual" masters have been nothing but vectors at best, psychopaths at worst. Here's an excerpt from wikipedia on Swami Rama:
On September 4, 1997 in the United District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania a jury returned an award against the defendant Himalayan International Institute of Yoga Science and Philosophy of the U.S.A. (“Himalayan Institute”) in the amount of $275,000 in compensatory damages and $1.6 million in punitive damages for the sexual misconduct of the Himalayan Institute's former “spiritual leader,” Brijkishor Kumar, popularly known as the “Swami Rama.” Answering special verdict questions, the jury found that Swami Rama (a) had engaged in sexual relations with the plaintiff who was 19 years old at the time of the sexual abuse; (b) had abused his position as the plaintiff's guru to secure her consent to the sexual relations; ( c) had breached the standard of care and fiduciary duties inherent in the relationship between him and the plaintiff; (d) had intentionally inflicted emotional distress on the plaintiff; (e) had acted maliciously and with conscious disregard for the welfare of the plaintiff; (f) and was acting within the scope of his agency relationship with the Himalayan Institute when engaging in sexual relations with Patel. In addition to holding the Himalayan Institute liable for compensatory and punitive damages on a respondent superior theory, the jury also imposed direct liability on the Institute, finding that (a) it had been negligent in allowing Swami Rama to be a sexual predator for a number of years; (b) the actions and inactions of Himalayan Institute constituted the intentional infliction of emotional distress; and (c) the Himalayan Institute had acted maliciously and with conscious disregard for the welfare of the plaintiff.[10]
Swami Rama, in relation to accusations made against him while alive, said "As a swami , I have taken a vow not to defend myself, Those saying negative things are my students, my spiritual children...I promised my sages that I would serve these students until they reach their final goal. And now for such a trival reason, I should abandon them? ...My master's mission will be crippled and I will be responsible for that...Divine will supersedes all human plans and endeavors..." [11]
His defense was ""As a swami , I have taken a vow not to defend myself, Those saying negative things are my students, my spiritual children." Yeah right. I see that in your signature you say to pay attention to the message and not the messenger. I don't agree fully. While I think the message is important sometimes the messenger sends a different, more important message through their actions. I suggest you have a search through the forum and you will see that several of these gurus have been discussed at length, e.g. Osho. One of my favourites, because at one stage I considered joining their "reiki-like" institution is Sri Bhagavan and Sri Amma. There's an interesting topic here that relates to the "enlightenment" teachings of gurus such as these.
 
By the way, I checked out Swami Rama's cohort, who is still alive and working. While there were no "scandals" relating to him I did get the impression from his web page that he is full of more "New Age Enlightenment" and "You Create Your Own Reality" horse dung. He reminded me of Deepak Chopra. I wonder if he's been on Oprah?
He provides a list of services such as psychotherapy, metaphor therapy, entheogenic counselling (what?) and energetic attunements (nowadays when I read something like "energetic attunements I read "mind programming). All in all I'd say he's a "New Age businessman" Here's his website: _http://www.beingawareness.org/default.htm
I read some of his writings and to my mind they contain the usual "look how pure and innocent the children are- we need to be more like them". Well innocent children are easy targets for predators and in my opinion we do not need to be more like them. We need to be more aware of predators so that we can protect them and ourselves and each other. As is so common with these gurus, there is little talk of why the world is so painful. There is the usual mention of how we're so afraid to live (could that be hypnotic reinforcement?). But there is no clue given as to why there is so much fear and suffering. "It just is". I briefly read some of his "writings" and saw that he briefly mentioned that we have been controlled by a religious elite but either deliberately or through ignorance, he fails to elaborate and thus fails to be of any real help.
I hope you understand this not as an attack Denis. This kind of issue has been discussed a lot here on the forum. It is very nice to enjoy the emotional innocence of a child but the world is far more dangerous than these gurus would have us think and if I've understood correctly, these teachings, while they may not be inherently "evil" on the surface, they are in a sense evil because they distract you with fantasies of bliss and warm fuzzy feelings whilst simultaneously distracting you and wasting your time.
 
Don Genaro said:
Denis,
I would be very wary of this kind of guru and his sweet soothing teachings that are about as nutritionally valuable to the soul as sugar is to the body. If you search on the forum you will find that a lot of these "spiritual" masters have been nothing but vectors at best, psychopaths at worst.

I don't find the information provided in the book not even remotely close to what you are describing as "sweet soothing teachings". I find it very objective because it talks that we are the ones responsible for ourselves and how important it is not to make the mistake of identifying with our roles in life and/or our personalities/egos. After all, we are much more than just our ego selves (yeah, hard to swallow since we live in a world where ego/mind rules- the world of Satan :lol:) I believe Einstein said it too: "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." But ok, as the old saying goes: To each his own. As for these teachings being "nutritionally valuable to the soul as sugar is to the body": the existence of soul falls in the domain of theology and as far as I know its existence hasn't been verified as a fact, so for the sake of this discussion lets just stick to the facts, ok? (I'm not saying that soul doesn't exist, I'm just saying that I don't know, but I do know that I am HERE right now, of that I am certain)
I bet that you haven't read the book, so you're judging it only by its covers. I don't have a "spiritual master" or guru or whatever, however I do read things with an open mind and I use only that which works, from any place I can find it or "extract the good, discard the bad" in regards to everything.

Don Genaro said:
Here's an excerpt from wikipedia on Swami Rama:
On September 4, 1997 in the United District Court for the Middle District of Pennsylvania a jury returned an award against the defendant Himalayan International Institute of Yoga Science and Philosophy of the U.S.A. (“Himalayan Institute”) in the amount of $275,000 in compensatory damages and $1.6 million in punitive damages for the sexual misconduct of the Himalayan Institute's former “spiritual leader,” Brijkishor Kumar, popularly known as the “Swami Rama.” Answering special verdict questions, the jury found that Swami Rama (a) had engaged in sexual relations with the plaintiff who was 19 years old at the time of the sexual abuse; (b) had abused his position as the plaintiff's guru to secure her consent to the sexual relations; ( c) had breached the standard of care and fiduciary duties inherent in the relationship between him and the plaintiff; (d) had intentionally inflicted emotional distress on the plaintiff; (e) had acted maliciously and with conscious disregard for the welfare of the plaintiff; (f) and was acting within the scope of his agency relationship with the Himalayan Institute when engaging in sexual relations with Patel. In addition to holding the Himalayan Institute liable for compensatory and punitive damages on a respondent superior theory, the jury also imposed direct liability on the Institute, finding that (a) it had been negligent in allowing Swami Rama to be a sexual predator for a number of years; (b) the actions and inactions of Himalayan Institute constituted the intentional infliction of emotional distress; and (c) the Himalayan Institute had acted maliciously and with conscious disregard for the welfare of the plaintiff.[10]
Swami Rama, in relation to accusations made against him while alive, said "As a swami , I have taken a vow not to defend myself, Those saying negative things are my students, my spiritual children...I promised my sages that I would serve these students until they reach their final goal. And now for such a trival reason, I should abandon them? ...My master's mission will be crippled and I will be responsible for that...Divine will supersedes all human plans and endeavors..." [11]
His defense was ""As a swami , I have taken a vow not to defend myself, Those saying negative things are my students, my spiritual children." Yeah right. I see that in your signature you say to pay attention to the message and not the messenger. I don't agree fully. While I think the message is important sometimes the messenger sends a different, more important message through their actions. I suggest you have a search through the forum and you will see that several of these gurus have been discussed at length, e.g. Osho. One of my favourites, because at one stage I considered joining their "reiki-like" institution is Sri Bhagavan and Sri Amma. There's an interesting topic here that relates to the "enlightenment" teachings of gurus such as these.

I haven't researched this book's authors and I was a little surprised by this excerpt from wikipedia. This just shows how corrupted some humans can become when they are blinded by their illusions of grandeur and their "know-it-all" attitude. All the more reason why I am emphasizing the importance of hearing the message and testing if it is applicable on ONESELF rather than discarding it just because some guru couldn't walk his talk. People should concentrate on what you have to say, not on yourself; otherwise they might subconsciously get manipulated by your image. It’s the whole conditioning thing – people are affected by the environment, including the messenger. Think of Obama – a great messenger, but a fucked up message. However, people follow him. Now think of anyone you might know, who cannot express him/herself very well, but has great things to say. At the end, what is important is the message itself. What you want to share to the world is an idea, not an image of an all-knowing messenger, messiah, leader, guru, savior and/or the like. Then, you should strive to make people think for themselves, and not follow you.
If some guru preaches Jesus's words: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you but fails to actually live them in reality (and that's his problem, not your) will you just discard the message as invalid just because he was incapable of making his actions reflect his words?
This is why I say in my signature pay attention to the message and not the messenger, TEST the message on yourself and then share your realizations with others. It's all about SELF. Humans are easily corrupted but the principle is always the principle (no matter how hard some people try to twist them to suit their own agendas) and it stands on its own. It's up to us whether we live it or not. The easiest thing in the world is to judge others and point fingers at them, but working and focusing on oneself is what is most difficult. Especially being honest with oneself. Honesty is the 1st chapter in the book of wisdom, after all.
 
Hi Denis,

You've had a very emotional reaction to the information that Don Genaro provided, which almost always indicates that you have a sacred cow that you're not willing to look at. In other words, you're believing in a lie, but are so emotionally invested in it that you react strongly when it is questioned.

You say you don't know if the soul exists, yet you know you are here. How do you know? My point is that questioning your assumptions and the idea that you know any thing at all is a very good place to start - until a person can do that, their cup is usually too full to get any further.
 
anart said:
Hi Denis,

You've had a very emotional reaction to the information that Don Genaro provided, which almost always indicates that you have a sacred cow that you're not willing to look at. In other words, you're believing in a lie, but are so emotionally invested in it that you react strongly when it is questioned.

Hi anart. I am believing in what lie, exactly? Please explain if it's not too much to ask.

anart said:
You say you don't know if the soul exists, yet you know you are here. How do you know? My point is that questioning your assumptions and the idea that you know any thing at all is a very good place to start - until a person can do that, their cup is usually too full to get any further.

Provide me with the evidence of soul's existence and then I will believe that it exists.
How do I know that I am here? I am life. EVERYTHING is life. This is my essence. Life just is. I know I am here because I can feel myself, I can feel my heartbeat, I feel blood coursing through my veins, I'm aware of my breath. I'm starting to feel stupid just because I am writing things that are simply SELF EVIDENT.
 
Denis said:
anart said:
Hi Denis,

You've had a very emotional reaction to the information that Don Genaro provided, which almost always indicates that you have a sacred cow that you're not willing to look at. In other words, you're believing in a lie, but are so emotionally invested in it that you react strongly when it is questioned.

Hi anart. I am believing in what lie, exactly? Please explain if it's not too much to ask.

There is a lot of evidence to back up what Don Genaro is pointing out, yet you won't consider it to be true. That is because you have a blind spot due to believing a lie about these Swamis.



d said:
Provide me with the evidence of soul's existence and then I will believe that it exists.
How do I know that I am here? I am life. EVERYTHING is life. This is my essence. Life just is. I know I am here because I can feel myself, I can feel my heartbeat, I feel blood coursing through my veins, I'm aware of my breath. I'm starting to feel stupid just because I am writing things that are simply SELF EVIDENT.

You missed my point. Nothing is self-evident to a sleeping mind. My point is that your cup appears to be a little full, and that prevents you from learning more. If you can start to actually deeply question your own conclusions, it will serve you well. Then again, a lot of people aren't very interested in that and would rather believe in what makes them feel good. fwiw.
 
Denis said:
I haven't researched this book's authors and I was a little surprised by this excerpt from wikipedia. This just shows how corrupted some humans can become when they are blinded by their illusions of grandeur and their "know-it-all" attitude. All the more reason why I am emphasizing the importance of hearing the message and testing if it is applicable on ONESELF rather than discarding it just because some guru couldn't walk his talk
Hi Denis,
You claim to be surprised with this info. Therefore, follow this link to be more enlightened: _http://www.strippingthegurus.com/ Swami Rama figures in chapter XI (scroll down to Contents for direct read on line, or choose PDF download in upper right corner). This disability 'to walk the talk' as you described it, appears to be a recurring syndrome that almost inevitably goes with the cult setting of guru's and pupils within some 'inner sanctum' where normal critical faculties are frowned upon or actively discouraged.
This forum has collected plenty of info about this happenstance out of sheer necessity - that being the baseless accusations of constituting a cult all by itself. See http://cassiopaea-cult.com/is-cassiopaea-a-cult-and-is-laura-knight-jadczyk-a-psychopath for starters.
 
Palinurus said:
Denis said:
I haven't researched this book's authors and I was a little surprised by this excerpt from wikipedia. This just shows how corrupted some humans can become when they are blinded by their illusions of grandeur and their "know-it-all" attitude. All the more reason why I am emphasizing the importance of hearing the message and testing if it is applicable on ONESELF rather than discarding it just because some guru couldn't walk his talk
Hi Denis,
You claim to be surprised with this info. Therefore, follow this link to be more enlightened: _http://www.strippingthegurus.com/ Swami Rama figures in chapter XI (scroll down to Contents for direct read on line, or choose PDF download in upper right corner). This disability 'to walk the talk' as you described it, appears to be a recurring syndrome that almost inevitably goes with the cult setting of guru's and pupils within some 'inner sanctum' where normal critical faculties are frowned upon or actively discouraged.
This forum has collected plenty of info about this happenstance out of sheer necessity - that being the baseless accusations of constituting a cult all by itself. See http://cassiopaea-cult.com/is-cassiopaea-a-cult-and-is-laura-knight-jadczyk-a-psychopath for starters.

Thanks Palinurus. I'll take a look at it.

@anart I just want to clarify that I find some of the info in a book valid and applicable to everyday life such as breath awareness, doing introspection by neutrally observing the thoughts and emotions running through mind, meditation etc. But not all- the part where he supports the idea that a spiritual master/guru is a vital component to the student's progress is where I disagree with him. Mutually learning from each other sounds more healthy to me- such as this networking and in flesh if possible (I have a very few friends who are truly interested to learn and grow :umm:, well that's life).
And I do not endorse the concept/idea of gurus because that is totally opposite to what self empowerment is (read: it reeks of a cult).
 
Denis said:
I bet that you haven't read the book, so you're judging it only by its covers. I don't have a "spiritual master" or guru or whatever, however I do read things with an open mind and I use only that which works, from any place I can find it or "extract the good, discard the bad" in regards to everything.

You're right I haven't read the book and I initially just scanned through the excerpt and in a sense I am "judging his book by its cover". But I have had some experience with this kind of thing before. For years I wandered through different sources, some better than others until I came across the forum here and started to learn why some were better than others. This topic has been really well covered on the forum already but in summary, the general idea is that these type of teachings are nothing more than "empty calories" that provide a hint of "spiritual truth" mixed in with lots of either outright lies or sweet talk that distracts and doesn't teach you anything. There are others far more qualified than I am on the forum to point you in the right direction with regards to reading material but I strongly suggest you read the Wave if you haven't already. You will find a wealth of information that may help you understand why I think Swami Rama and Co. are not worth the time to read.

Denis said:
Think of Obama – a great messenger, but a -flicked- up message.

From what I know of Obama (which is just the image his publicity group has given me) I have not seen any evidence of a great leader at all. All I've seen is evidence of a pathological individual who does exactly what he's told by his controllers. Politicians are not leaders for the most part, they are followers- we just don't get to see who's giving them their orders.

Denis said:
If some guru preaches Jesus's words: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you but fails to actually live them in reality (and that's his problem, not your) will you just discard the message as invalid just because he was incapable of making his actions reflect his words?

Not at all. First off, I have learned to pay close attention when I hear the word "guru", particularly when the "guru" is the one making the claim (Sai Baba springs to mind). But it's very easy for a guru to quote scripture to convince the gullible. I am reminded of two other sayings attributed to Jesus. The first is "Beware of false prophets" which I think applies to these swami guys and the second, which has been quoted extensively here: "By their fruits ye shall know them". The "fruits" of this Swami Rama are in my opinion either too sweet (his written work) or rotten to the core (his predatorial actions)

Denis said:
The easiest thing in the world is to judge others and point fingers at them
Sometimes it is necessary to "judge" others (discernment is probably a better word) and to point the finger when there is obvious fraud going on. Many gurus have quoted Jesus, telling us to "turn the other cheek" and ignore reality for their own benefit.

Denis said:
This is why I say in my signature pay attention to the message and not the messenger,
As I said before, I think the messenger is equally important to consider. I think the point is to consider everything.
 
Palinurus said:
Therefore, follow this link to be more enlightened: _http://www.strippingthegurus.com/ Swami Rama figures in chapter XI (scroll down to Contents for direct read on line, or choose PDF download in upper right corner). This disability 'to walk the talk' as you described it, appears to be a recurring syndrome that almost inevitably goes with the cult setting of guru's and pupils within some 'inner sanctum' where normal critical faculties are frowned upon or actively discouraged.
This forum has collected plenty of info about this happenstance out of sheer necessity - that being the baseless accusations of constituting a cult all by itself. See http://cassiopaea-cult.com/is-cassiopaea-a-cult-and-is-laura-knight-jadczyk-a-psychopath for starters.
Thanks for the link Palinurus, it was enlightening indeed! It was also not surprising to see Sai Baba in there. That guy is creepy! There have been countless allegations of sex abuse on his part but no formal convictions. Sai Baba himself said that the devotees who were disturbed by the allegations were "not true devotees".

Interestingly, the page on Swami Rama mentions him "faking credentials".
Rama also claimed to have later studied in Hamburg, Utrecht and at Oxford University. It turns out (Webster, 1990), however, that significant elements in the official biography of the swami may well have been merely “pulled out of thin air.”

That's the second instance I've read about today! The first was also here in the book thread: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,21372.0.html
 
Denis said:
If some guru preaches Jesus's words: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you but fails to actually live them in reality (and that's his problem, not your) will you just discard the message as invalid just because he was incapable of making his actions reflect his words?

I think it might be wise to really think about this. You could nit-pick truth out of the sayings and teachings of just about anyone. The most effective lies & deceptions come wrapped in truths.

A person's choices and actions are very much a part of the 'message' they bring to the world around them. If someone who is claiming to be one thing but acts in a contradictory way puts forth a 'teaching' for others, should you really be so confident about knowing what is true and what is not? The basis for your making this claim seems to be that you somehow just know. This notion is contrary to the findings of this forum, which suggest it takes a great deal of study, effort, observation and work on oneself in order to even begin to approach an objective understanding of oneself. The network is valuable precisely because we ourselves as single individuals tend to be so subjective and unreliable when it comes to seeing ourselves and the world as we/it really is.

One of the first steps on that road is to really accept that things are often not what we think they are, and usually not what we want them to be.
 
@venusian I understand what you are saying and that's exactly why I have emphasized that the message has to be tested on oneself (and if possible under supervision of a trustworthy group of people whose integrity has been tested in & out) 1st and foremost and then report back to share realizations with others (sharing is caring and those who are compassionate to others will share unconditionally if/when they are asked to do so).

I never said that I know a lot, in fact I know so little and I am shocked to see how much lies, deception & dishonesty is out there lurking in the world.
This revelation about these gurus who wrote the book really struck me hard, because initially I found the content to be genuine and factual but as you've already mentioned "the most effective lies & deceptions come wrapped in truth". So I fell for it...
This just shows that I have a long way to go and heck of a lot more to learn.
 
Denis said:
This revelation about these gurus who wrote the book really struck me hard, because initially I found the content to be genuine and factual but as you've already mentioned "the most effective lies & deceptions come wrapped in truth". So I fell for it...
This just shows that I have a long way to go and heck of a lot more to learn.

Good for you Denis! It sounds like you have had a good shock from this experience :)
 
Hi Denis, I think the problem with these kind of teachings is not necessarily that they are 'evil' or that they corrupt people directly, but rather that they encourage people to dissociate into fantasies of what they 'might' become without instructing them on the difficult work needed to get there. This is where the corrupting influence lies.

To put it another way: the excerpts you posted can be interpreted differently and subjectively for anyone reading it. They are "true" but they don't offer very much in the way of practical advice about how to change ourselves. They tell us nice things about how we should or can be: "just see yourself from a higher perspective and you won't identify with your lower nature" etc. etc. all very well and good, but just imagining it doesn't get us there. But the Swami types make their name and fortunes off the back of telling people what they want to hear: that they just have to believe or understand or see that are spiritual beings and they'll Be that. Our experience of the process is rather different.
 
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