Cristiada

MK Scarlett

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
After have read this article "Censure : Cristiada, le film à succès américain que vous ne verrez pas" (in French - Translation: Cristiadia, the american movie success that you will not see), I saw the movie Cristiadia, which the real name is For Greater Glory (aka Cristiada), and I wanted to share it here because this is an important part of the History of the Mexico.

Hereafter an approximative translation:
http://fr.sott.net/article/15108-Censure-Cristiada-le-film-a-succes-americain-que-vous-ne-verrez-pas said:
You will not see in France the US-Mexican film Cristiada, released in 2012. But it is a successful production in the United States, Mexico and in countries where the Masonic socialist censorship is not exercised or is exercising with less rigor than in France.

Its director Dean Wright and renowned actors like Andy Garcia, who plays the lead role, and the "American" way it was shot, with simplifications, the liberties taken for the sake of the film relative to the true Cristero history and battle scenes very well done, make a guaranteed commercial success for the theaters. The problem is that the film Cristiada tells the true story of Mexico in the 1920s after the Mexican Revolution led by a president and a socialist government and Freemasons democratically elected but whose fanatical secularism has plunged the country into the civil war and has made Mexico a country where religious freedom was very limited until recently.

What about the movie:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristiada_(film) said:
For Greater Glory (aka Cristiada) is a 2012 epic historical war drama film [1] directed by Dean Wright and written by Michael Love, based on the true story of the Cristero War.[2][3][4][5][6] It stars Andy Garcia, Eva Longoria, Oscar Isaac, Peter O'Toole, and Bruce Greenwood. The film is the directorial debut for Wright, veteran visual effects supervisor on films including The Two Towers (2002) and The Return of the King (2003),[1] and was released on June 1, 2012.

And about the Cristero War:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cristero_War said:
The Cristero War (1926–29) also known as La Cristiada, was a mass popular uprising and attempted counter-revolution against the anti-Catholicism of the ruling Mexican government. Based in western Mexico, the rebellion was set off by the enforcement of the Mexican Constitution of 1917 by former Mexican President, Freemason and atheist Plutarco Elías Calles, in order to persecute the Roman Catholic Church and its sub-organizations.

The Mexican Revolution was the largest rebellion in Mexican history. It was based on the peasants' overwhelming demand for land and for social justice. The Catholic Church was cautious to not support the revolution, which at times threatened the property rights of many Mexicans. However, the Calles' administration felt its revolutionary reforms, such as those against private property and Catholic schools, were threatened by the Church. As a solution to the Church's influence over the Mexican populace, the anti-clerical statutes of the Constitution were instituted, and beginning a 10-year persecution of Catholics, resulting in the death of thousands.

[...] Present-day
The Mexican constitution prohibits outdoor worship, which is only allowed in exceptional circumstances, generally requiring governmental permission. Religious organizations are not permitted to own print or electronic media outlets, governmental permission is required to broadcast religious ceremonies, and ministers are prohibited from being political candidates or holding public office.[33][dubious – discuss] Despite remnants of anti-clerical statutes, there is no real enforcement of them, and the Catholic Church enjoys overwhelming liberties from the Government, as well as devotion from the people.

Well, another 'Secret History' (at least from where I am) that I had ever heard. Has anyone saw this beautiful and touching movie? So many people died... To save their rights of freedom of cult. The movie trully deserves a look, for me... Or has anyone have some knowledge about this event? I read on the French Wikipedia that it could be a propaganda, as:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerre_des_Cristeros said:
Calles closed the churches? no, these are the priests who decide not to carry out their offices, and then maybe an explanation of why these laws should be applied ... for example the issue of church lands that had too much (such as large landowners) and the issue of land distribution was through the secularization of church property, the poor who formed the bulk of the troops are Cristero is certainly not campaigning on the church property that might redistribute;

Large illiterate mass it is partly made handle because these laws were directed against the clergy and not against the populace (the problem was seen for the first time in the parliamentary elections of 1912 GUERRA cf). The influence of the Church was too hard on the people that they needed help to emancipate themselves.

Obviously, I know what I put in bold is surely right in a way or another, but now, I am confused. :shock:
 
I saw the movie, not because I wanted to see the Hollywood like production, although I must say, it was nice. I had known from years back about the Cristiada, because I was in a catholic school and they show us another part of the history, like the life and purpose of Father Miguel Agustin Pro SJ, martyr from that war. It was curious to me, as to why of the interest to came up with this production, new laws in the mexican constitution regarding religious issues and the former Papa's coming enter in the equation.

Also because, my grandfather was –somewhat- involved, not in the hero type. –it was mostly because his tongue spoke before his mind, and he ended up running away to one of the nearby hills and hide until things calmed down.

http://fr.sott.net/article/15108-Censure-Cristiada-le-film-a-succes-americain-que-vous-ne-verrez-pas said:
You will not see in France the US-Mexican film Cristiada, released in 2012. But it is a successful production in the United States, Mexico and in countries where the Masonic socialist censorship is not exercised or is exercising with less rigor than in France.

Its director Dean Wright and renowned actors like Andy Garcia, who plays the lead role, and the "American" way it was shot, with simplifications, the liberties taken for the sake of the film relative to the true Cristero history and battle scenes very well done, make a guaranteed commercial success for the theaters. The problem is that the film Cristiada tells the true story of Mexico in the 1920s after the Mexican Revolution led by a president and a socialist government and Freemasons democratically elected but whose fanatical secularism has plunged the country into the civil war and has made Mexico a country where religious freedom was very limited until recently.

Democratically elected???? … plunged the country into the civil war and has made Mexico a country where religious freedom was very limited until recently????

I do not think we had never, ever had had any democratically elections, though … I supposed it depends of the point of view from the author of the article, of course, it can reach other corners.

I was hearing today a Mexican radio show called Domingo 6 made by Tomás Mojarro (El Valedor)_http://valedor.org/tag/domingo-6/ , I had found his show quite objective, with a good analysis regarding Mexican politics, today's show was about the beeep!! of the()$#%) many bad words can be inserted here, but to be understandable, I will use the psychopath word, how the psychopath politicians had enriched themselves and how they manage to go with it. Our latest acquisition the former governor of Tabasco _http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/mexican-investigators-seize-boxes-filled-with-cash-at-office-of-ex-aide-to-former-governor/2013/05/22/52762094-c34e-11e2-9642-a56177f1cdf7_story.html.
Anyways, he mention today the revolution, with one interesting question, What we (as the masses) had obtain -as benefits- from that revolution??, he invite to his listeners to not fall in the mediocrity. Because it is so easy to complain.

I know that, regarding Mexican catholic church as big broad institution, its one along other institutions of power, but I also know -by experience- of the benefits of smaller institutions and organizations being catholic bias that had and are making better the lives of many many Mexicans, in this regard it has two sides of the coin, as many things … well, not that simple, it mostly have many sides.

As being told by Agustin Basave in his book “Mexicanidad and Esquizofrenia, los dos rostros del mexijano” (Mexicanity and Schizophrenia, the two faces of the Mexican) –there is an explanation of the “J” instead of “c” from “mexijano”, but that would be in other time. Regarding religion with constitution issues he says:
“The line of the continuity from then to now had been, that mania of us to create norms way far away from the reality. One of the worst consequences had been the prevalence of inflexible laws that apply flexibly, instead of flexible laws that apply inflexibly. […]
“Here are the two dimensions of the modus operandi of the Mexican corruption: there are two dispositions of the Constitution that are practically inapplicable, are that in these secondary laws and the regulations, exists a great quantity of requirements that do it extremely difficult for the citizen or user, to comply. Both circumstances contribute to make distance between the norm and reality, and both propitiate that the vaccum is filled with laws non written”

And that explains what had been done, at least with religion issues, but it can by applied to many other things as well. It was said that the education had to be secular and there are and had been houndreds of religious schools –not just catholic ones, It was said that in the schools shouldn't been any religious images, prayer s etc… and they (in the school) flip the image to one of Benito Juarez, when the inspectors made their visits; religious class was converted to moral class. And so on with examples, and as Basave explains: “the most symptomatic: the children of the Education Secretary in turn and also the sons of the president of the Republic were usually students of those schools that transgress the Constitution”.

So, your confusion is quite valid, I am confused too. Of course, I live in a confusing country, I should be accustom with the confusion, but every day I learn about new confusions in this country, and ended up confused again.


Latest confusion was last week, I was supposed to do payment to the goverment of the city, when I went to pick up the format -- they do not send it to you, you have to go to the goverment office, I couldn't do it because there was an error in my name, in that office the error couldn't be change, so I have to go to another goverment office and, they solicit me to do a permorm duty letter to them to correct their on error in order for me to do the payment (???) .... I somehow think, that the goverment need all this burocracy sistem to justify their jobs, thats ok, we do not want to have more unemployment people, problem is, the burocracy in this country is a joke (in order to not say bad words), you have to do as they say or they simply make your life worst. So I went with the PATIENT chip inside. So far, so good, in around 45 days I will have an answer.
 
mabar said:
[...]
Also because, my grandfather was –somewhat- involved, not in the hero type. –it was mostly because his tongue spoke before his mind, and he ended up running away to one of the nearby hills and hide until things calmed down.

A witness of the History, then...

mabar said:
Democratically elected???? … plunged the country into the civil war and has made Mexico a country where religious freedom was very limited until recently????

I do not think we had never, ever had had any democratically elections, though … I supposed it depends of the point of view from the author of the article, of course, it can reach other corners.

Yeah, I do not think either any country had really had "democratically elections"...

mabar said:
So, your confusion is quite valid, I am confused too. Of course, I live in a confusing country, I should be accustom with the confusion, but every day I learn about new confusions in this country, and ended up confused again.

Yes, I know what you mean, and maybe that when I will have finish to read the book: The Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent by Eduardo Galeano (thank you to freesurfer who recommended it in an article comment (on Sott.fr), I will have some others answers...

This book is full of informations (even if I do not have finish it yet, it is obvious!); It is the one Hugo Chavez offers to Barack Obama during Somet of Americas to Puerto España, Trinidad y Tobago in April 2009.



I join the links to it in three different languages:
In Spanish: Las venas abiertas de America Latina
In English: [url=http://www.amazon.fr/Open-Veins-Latin-America-Centuries/dp/184668742X/ref=sr_1_7?s=english-books&ie=UTF8&qid=1369670512&sr=1-7&keywords=Eduardo+Galeano]The Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent
In French: [url=http://www.amazon.fr/veines-ouvertes-lAm%C3%A9rique-latine/dp/2266120883/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1369670920&sr=1-1&keywords=Eduardo+Galeano%2C+les+veines+ouvertes+de+l%27am%C3%A9rique+latine]Les veines ouvertes de l'Amérique latine - L'histoire implacable du pillage d'un continent


mabar said:

This is an absolute demonstration of the incapacity of our governements to dirige us as we think they do... :mad:

And BTW, thank you so much mabar for your answer. ;)
 
MK Scarlett said:
mabar said:
Latest confusion was last week, I was supposed to do payment to the goverment of the city, when I went to pick up the format -- they do not send it to you, you have to go to the goverment office, I couldn't do it because there was an error in my name, in that office the error couldn't be change, so I have to go to another goverment office and, they solicit me to do a permorm duty letter to them to correct their on error in order for me to do the payment (???) .... I somehow think, that the goverment need all this burocracy sistem to justify their jobs, thats ok, we do not want to have more unemployment people, problem is, the burocracy in this country is a joke (in order to not say bad words), you have to do as they say or they simply make your life worst. So I went with the PATIENCE chip inside. So far, so good, in around 45 days I will have an answer.

This is an absolute demonstration of the incapacity of our governements to dirige us as we think they do... :mad:

I think that our governments are quite capable to dirige us as they want it, not as it is need. I supposed that –at least in my case- fall into the trap into believing the official part, they are in the government because they have the vocation to serve. But that just theory.

The ponerization or … rotten ways? Have deep roots and had come from centuries, --- I did a quick view of comments of the book you mentioned (The Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent,) I will assume that possible causes will be explained in it. Learning about other experiences from other members and also from other countries had tough me that there is a possibility that things can be done in another way, the “correct” way. Not sure if it will be done in this country, in this century; considering how things are worldwide.

Note: change the word PATIENT for PATIENCE … at least in the quote. A confusion by asociation from my part, and because in spanish it is the same word, although different meanings. Of curse, there is a possibility that my unconscious made its appearance because I was reading/translating some pages from Trapped in the Mirror before I came to the forum yesterday. And it was related to sickness (patient?) effects because we (narcissistic wounded) are not quite able to understand our body messages. And it happends that to me. I will leave before I get more confused :P
 
interesting.. will see if I can find the movie around..

The Open Veins of Latin America: Five Centuries of the Pillage of a Continent by Eduardo Galeano (thank you to freesurfer who recommended it in an article comment (on Sott.fr),
You're welcome. ;)

if something should justify to buy (read) the book or not, can to be this kind of 'bamarrogance .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omVMQ03ivGM&list=PL2C9560D02D2DA183

greetings.
 
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