David Cameron returns to UK as fire and riots grip London

[Paragon]

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/233189-David-Cameron-Returning-to-UK-as-Fire-and-Riots-Grip-London

And not just in London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Leeds, Nottingham and Bristol were affected too.

I'm struggling to make sense of what the real issue is here. Is it just a mob mentality that causes this anarchy, jumping on a bandwagon for excitement, or an actual grievance at the state of the world? A bit of both?

Official news outlets are pushing home the "greedy, riotous youth" and I have to admit, I feel nothing but contempt towards those who join in and destroy peoples homes, communities and livelihoods. I personally at this moment, can't see the justification in all this anarchy whilst peoples lives are ruined, and yes I'm angry, especially watching it unfold on the news. I'm worried that this will spread further across the UK.

So any objective viewpoints on this issue would be appreciated thanks!

 

[stellar]

I think it is a bit of both. I also think that with the approaching Wave, energies are becoming more prominent in the sense that everything is showing it's 'true colours' more and becoming more obvious/intense. More suffering for sure, it seems. :(

 

[Tigersoap]

I don't know but it would not be the first time that riots are created on purpose by pushing people against the wall until they retaliate.

Moreover I don't believe it became widespread like that without a good helping hand of disguised police forces within the rioters.

I thought interesting as well that the Blackberry were pin pointed as the devices that helped spread the riots because of the difficulties to track down what's going on unlike facebook or tweeter. While they can be praised when far away country "rioters" uses them to avoid governement tracking, it suddenly becomes a black(berry) sheep in our own countries osit.


To me it's just shades of

The term Watts Riots of 1965 refers to a large-scale riot which lasted 6 days in the Watts neighborhood of Los Angeles, California, in August 1965. By the time the riot subsided, 34 people had been killed, 1,032 injured, and 3,438 arrested. It would stand as the most severe riot in Los Angeles history until the Los Angeles riots of 1992.

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_riots

 

[RedFox]

Given what is happening with stock markets across the world, I can't help but wonder if this isn't a side effect of HARRP? They've turned the fear and 'automatic flight/fight response' way up in order to shake things down a bit....the riots could then potentially just be a side effect/distraction.
The way it is spreading is peculiar though. Will wait to see what the final outcome is.

 

[Gertrudes]

I was just opening a new thread in the "What's on your mind" board when I noticed this thread, so I'll just copy and paste what I had written:

As someone who lives in London and nearby one of the riot areas I'm devastated. These youngsters use the excuse of the death of drug dealer Mark Duggan to have started what can only be equated to pure violence. They are destroying people's lifetime businesses, and their lives. Seeing buildings being burned and the fear in people's eyes is heartbreaking. And the worst, I've heard some people commenting that these people are upset by what the police has done, shooting Mark Duggan, and that they are just manifesting that. HOW COME? Who gives any one the right to destroy the labor of a lifetime of one single, not to mention hundreds of lives as they are doing now??

I just came from work, 2 of my clients didn't turn up because they live on the other side of the high street which is being rioted in plain day light as write this. My evening classes were canceled, and tomorrow's might be as well. In the high street, many small family business shops were vandalized, and the job centre has been torn apart. For what?.... for pure sheer violence. It feels like complete madness has taken over people, they're running on the adrenaline of destruction and, with that, many people's life are being destroyed.

In Croydon, south of London, a 19th century building that housed a business that had been within the same family for 5 generations was burned to ashes. What for?....

I'm sorry, but I'm really struggling to live through such profound lack of care for other people's lives. Can you imagine, the fruit of a lifetime of labor being vandalized in such an ugly relentless way?? And what is worse, even when this all ordeal gets under control, what about the mark, the bruise left in people's hearts? What about the fear? Sure, some people have not been affected directly, but acknowledging that this is happening in other parts of London can only feed the climate of distrust, fear, rancor, racism, and divisiveness amongst people.
Using the excuse of disagreeing with someone's death, several people's lives are being destroyed. I actually think that many of them are happy that Mark Duggan was killed, as this gave them just the right opportunity for unlimited violence. This no longer has anything with the death of anyone, it is just pure destruction, and it is beyond sad!

At the clinic where I work, another therapist who's a psychiatrist and works with children and teenagers, mentioned today how these 10 years old young boys are absolutely terrified by gangs and, as they grow up, have no other choice but to join them to protect their own lives. And so is this rotten system perpetuated...

Sorry for the grim post everyone, but this is really, extremely upsetting to me.

 

[Paragon]

Hi Gertrudes,

I'm really very sorry you had and continue to live through these terrible scenes, I was up to 4am this morning in shock at the footage of destruction and violence. How badly are you affected? I hope that you and all other UK based members take care in these testing times.

 

[alphonse]

Gertrudes, Living in the Lewisham area I agree that it is ugly and heartbreaking.

It is the 4th time I have seen it around the streets I live in, in 1977 when i was a 16, was the 1st time. The rioters had an identifiable cause, anti racism and the anti National Front, I am not saying they were justified to riot, but they had an "issue" that the public could agree or disagree with.

The second time, a few years later, they were rioting, specificaly against Maggie Thatcher and the "Poll Tax" and again in 1985 which was about the perceived unfair treatment of young Black people by the police.

I am about to leave work for home, my wife has told me that all our local stores and supermarkets are closed and that the radio announced 200 "youths" have assembled in Greenwich Park. A colleague who left an hour ago, went home through the park, and said it as peaceful as ever....so as if it is not frightening enough, the media is definetly spreading the fear to sensationalise the news and agitate the public whose areas are not under siege, by making them think it is about to be!

Tigersoap, I really don't think this is compareable to the Watts Riots - it is not a race issue. The rioters, that I have seen first hand, on my way home are black, white, male female but predominantly very young.

As for the shooting of Mark Duggan the alleged drug dealer , well that may have been an issue in Tottenham on Saturday after the protest march was "hijacked" by looters and rioters, but as you most likely know Gertrudes, South London and South East London - have very little to do with North and East London - the rioters are now simply Vandals and looters and thieves, not protestors.

I don't know but it would not be the first time that riots are created on purpose by pushing people against the wall until they retaliate

You know there may be something to that Tigersoap. They seem very well organised, but I am not sure if the rioters are people who have been pushed against the wall.

Very recently it was announced that the London police force , The Metropolitan Police will face cuts of 330 millon GBP over the next 2 years resulting in the loss of thousands of officers. A couple of weeks ago the Top Cop and his number 2 both resigned over the News Internationalphone hacking scandal.

To add to that, no one has been "minding the shop" - The Prime minister, the Deputy PM, The Home Secretary, The London Mayor, were all away and took far to long to decide to fly home. So London, caught with it's pants down, 2 top cops gone and facing cuts to a Police Force struggling to cope as it is?
Clearly some body could present a very strong argument against any cuts, especially with Olympics coming soon!

The flame of the Olympic Torch would be lost amongst the burning cars and funiture shops if the same thing happens next year, thats for sure

Take care Gertrudes - physicaly for sure, but also emotionaly, as hard as it is to see try not to get too upset
Al

sorry - edit for spelling/grammar - in a hurry to get indoors! al

 

[Tigersoap]

Tigersoap, I really don't think this is compareable to the Watts Riots - it is not a race issue. The rioters, that I have seen first hand, on my way home are black, white, male female but predominantly very young

To me there are striking parallels.

I think the riot started on the same kind of event, pushed by a constant pressure from the police and well known and documented police brutality until an event like the shooting Mark Duggan is the spark that triggers the fire.

Then it turns into something else in the shape of the lootings and mindless violence.
Which makes me wonder if there isn't a willing vectoring in that direction.

What strikes me is that the violence is against the people in the areas, who will ask for thougher police and protection, and not against the police or the gouvernment.
All the attention is on the looting and such and how regular people and shop owners are the victims of these youth gangs.

I could be totally wrong but it seems so opportunistic that I can't help but think it is managed at some level. My two cents.

 

[Windmill knight]

Gertrudes and Alphonse, I was thinking of you and your families, hoping that you were not too close to the 'no-go areas'. Well, I see you are too close for comfort, but at least you are ok.

I too have been reading the news and listening to the radio in amazement. It does strike me as something quite irrational; the death of Duggan doesn't sound like the real cause apart from the initial anger. As has been said, they have been targeting local businesses and looting, and many are teenagers who don't seem to have a clue why they are doing it. A couple of teenage girls were interviewed in the BBC World radio and they sounded like they were looting for a laugh. They commented that they got some 'free alcohol', and when pressed for a further reason, they said that "it's the government's fault [without elaborating]... It's about showing the police that we can do what we want, and we did."

So at this point, my money is either on HAARP and/or the disintegration of people due to cosmic changes as described by the Cs. In one of the sessions they also mentioned that 'sleeper' Greenbaums occasionally went off 'before their time'. This suggested that there was a plan to trigger people to go violent randomly, presumably so that the PTB could step in with the police global state. Here I'm going all conspiratorial (sorry about that), but if something along those lines is happening, then perhaps it is no coincidence that the global economy is going into the 'double-dip' recession this week. That would stimulate (and justify in people's minds) similar rioting in other parts of the world, all leading to the tightest forms of control - just in time for the last episode.

Anyway, I don't know what's going on apart from the fact that the world is going crazy. But I'd love to know.

Take care Londoners! If things get uglier remember you have a network of support.

 

[Gertrudes]

so as if it is not frightening enough, the media is definetly spreading the fear to sensationalise the news and agitate the public whose areas are not under siege, by making them think it is about to be!

Sadly, it is typical.

As for the shooting of Mark Duggan the alleged drug dealer , well that may have been an issue in Tottenham on Saturday after the protest march was "hijacked" by looters and rioters, but as you most likely know Gertrudes, South London and South East London - have very little to do with North and East London - the rioters are now simply Vandals and looters and thieves, not protestors.

Yes, definitely agree. Following on Tigersoap's thoughts, Duggan's death was what ignited the flame, and now it's turned into something else. I do wonder what kind of message are they trying to convey. Is it violence for the sake of violence or, has suggested, is there something else in it?

How badly are you affected?.

Directly not much, I can't really complain as only a few of my classes have been canceled. Indirectly, witnessing all of this is, I admit, making me very upset.

Take care Gertrudes - physicaly for sure, but also emotionaly, as hard as it is to see try not to get too upset

Will do, thanks al.

So at this point, my money is either on HAARP and/or the disintegration of people due to cosmic changes as described by the Cs. In one of the sessions they also mentioned that 'sleeper' Greenbaums occasionally went off 'before their time'. This suggested that there was a plan to trigger people to go violent randomly, presumably so that the PTB could step in with the police global state. Here I'm going all conspiratorial (sorry about that), but if something along those lines is happening, then perhaps it is no coincidence that the global economy is going into the 'double-dip' recession this week. That would stimulate (and justify in people's minds) similar rioting in other parts of the world, all leading to the tightest forms of control - just in time for the last episode.

It makes sense to me.
Also what you described above about how the teenage girls reacted when interviewed doesn't surprise me. Teenagers, at least around here, have been becoming more and more mindless, more and more aggressive, and there's a sense of witnessing what I can only describe a sort of emptiness when seeing some of them interact. Maybe it's just me, but it makes me feel really uneasy.

 

[atiil]

Gertrudes, Alphonse and everyone in the affected area's stay safe and aware!!

The sheer apparent randomness of all this violence is the real unknown factor here. We are just coming out of a period where we learnt how insidious the relationship is between the media, politicians and the police force. The financial markets are in the process of controlled meltdown, the radiation from Fukushima is still spreading west and east, this together with extreme weather events and now rioting all over the UK. It appears to me either this violence is a highly orchestrated attempt to deflect attention from 'SOMETHING ELSE' that is going on, or the start of a general breakdown maybe induced by factors such as HAARP. The speed in which this has spread doesn't appear to be because of the shooting in North London on Saturday, it just feels to disconnected from that one event OSIT.

The thing that now comes to mind is if this continues for any length of time people will become very frightened and the reflex action will be that something drastic has to be done for people's security, time then to watch out for who will benefit from all of this fear, as usual I think it will be another big step forward for the psychopaths and their agenda. I'm really struggling to find a good outcome to all this for normal people, so sickening yet so predictable. The thing I have always struggled to understand is why the good guys are always in the shadows, unknown to most as well as unreachable, yet the people hell bent on violence and destruction are always the ones right in our faces controlling the agenda. Sometimes I wish the good balance side of this equation was more visible so there could be a profound change in consciousness, but I suspect this is wishful thinking.

Again everyone who is close to this please take the upmost care you are in our thoughts and prayers.

 

[Gawan]

I too have been reading the news and listening to the radio in amazement. It does strike me as something quite irrational; the death of Duggan doesn't sound like the real cause apart from the initial anger. As has been said, they have been targeting local businesses and looting, and many are teenagers who don't seem to have a clue why they are doing it. A couple of teenage girls were interviewed in the BBC World radio and they sounded like they were looting for a laugh. They commented that they got some 'free alcohol', and when pressed for a further reason, they said that "it's the government's fault [without elaborating]... It's about showing the police that we can do what we want, and we did."

I wondered about that too today, cause they are going against everyone and everything.

So at this point, my money is either on HAARP and/or the disintegration of people due to cosmic changes as described by the Cs. In one of the sessions they also mentioned that 'sleeper' Greenbaums occasionally went off 'before their time'. This suggested that there was a plan to trigger people to go violent randomly, presumably so that the PTB could step in with the police global state. Here I'm going all conspiratorial (sorry about that), but if something along those lines is happening, then perhaps it is no coincidence that the global economy is going into the 'double-dip' recession this week. That would stimulate (and justify in people's minds) similar rioting in other parts of the world, all leading to the tightest forms of control - just in time for the last episode.

That's an explanation, well somehow the world up and down is heating up. According to an article (unfortunately only a German one) Cameron said, that they will do anything do bring order again in the streets and this doesn't sound well to me: anything. Tonight police forces are about 16.000 or many more than the nights before and officers had to quit holidays too.

Take care Londoners! If things get uglier remember you have a network of support.

I concur, take care everyone and keep networking folks!

 

[alphonse]

thanks for your thoughts guys. it all seems a great deal calmer in my area tonight, but i have never seen so many police or heard so many sirens.

Windmill Knight, I heard the two girls also. Just about sums it up for me! Mindless and pointless. There simply is, no logical explanation .

Atill thanks for you thoughts. Gertrudes it looks a bit calmer over your way too although canning town seems potentialy dangerous tonight.
I hope you can get teaching again tomorrow, it is awful that this affects your livelyhood on top of everything else.

Tigersoap, if there are ""striking similarities" there are striking differances too.

The areas and communities of London that it happened/ is happeneing in are totally unrelated suburbs with different ethnic compositions.

It is clearly not race related or confined to one section of the community. It seems that the main protaganists are very young, and the organisers are much older.
Alltogether quite sinister, and it is now in several different cities and in those cities it is solely about theft and organised shop looting. Each of the completely different areas flared up for one night , not 6 days of continous out of control rioting.

Well, I feel safer tonight and I'm glad about that.

The frightening thing is, this happened on this scale with not too many young people and apparently, mainly with theft in mind.

I can't even begin to imagine how awful civil unrest could be on a larger scale, say for example food riots or God knows for what reason, and how easy it would be for those authorities that pretend to protect us, to abandon us and leave us all to it.

It is an eye opener indeed.

Al

 

[Windmill knight]

Something else that comes to mind is that this is similar to the recent riots in Vancouver in that they were completely out of proportion and hard to explain. In that case it was even dumber as the cause was a hockey game! But this one is way more violent and destructive. I mean, they burned entire buildings down, not to mention vehicles and buses! And their targets were things that just happened to be in their way! It is as if something is in the air...

I can't even begin to imagine how awful civil unrest could be on a larger scale, say for example food riots or God knows for what reason, and how easy it would be for those authorities that pretend to protect us, to abandon us and leave us all to it.

It is an eye opener indeed.

Yeah, scary. If we are going to rely on ourselves we better keep our networks strong.

 

[Gertrudes]

it all seems a great deal calmer in my area tonight,

Good to hear that Al.

Yes, it seems that things are quieting down. According to the news there are 16.000 policeman on the street tonight. That might be sending the rioters a message.
In Brimingham and Manchester things were worse today though.

I just heard on the news how some people were actually following reporters because they know that they are following rioters, they had bags with them so that they could also pillage the stores which had been vandalized :O

Gertrudes it looks a bit calmer over your way too although canning town seems potentialy dangerous tonight.
I hope you can get teaching again tomorrow, it is awful that this affects your livelyhood on top of everything else.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm further north in Walthamstow, there were riots here in the afternoon, but hopefully things are quieter now.

I can't even begin to imagine how awful civil unrest could be on a larger scale, say for example food riots or God knows for what reason, and how easy it would be for those authorities that pretend to protect us, to abandon us and leave us all to it.

You bet. Although on the one hand, maybe another faction of people would hear the wake up call and gather to fight for a communal sense of surviving, who knows.

Several people are asking what has caused these youngsters to do that from a societal perspective. Well, this degradation has been ongoing for a long, long time, it would be nice if such destructive events could work constructively as a wake up call, but I don't think they will.