Dealing with, or suppressing traumatic events

[Gertrudes]

I have been thinking a lot on what is the difference, and how that difference is manifested, between having dealt with the past and leaving it behind, or having locked the past in a cage and hiding it from sight. Here are just a few thoughts I came up with:
It appears I have been doing the latter, which was quite an enlightening conclusion. It is easy to look at someone and see a few patterns, but when you are inside yourself, it is oh so easy to do mistakes and with all honesty think you are indeed doing the right thing.
This came up after a few changes I'm going through probably due to EE, and an event described in a previous thread of mine (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=14467.0) where a violent abdominal pain led to a week of traumatic memories. A tsunami of them in fact.

Years ago, I read "Running from Safety- an Adventure of the spirit" by Richard Bach. I will never forget the theme, the author goes back in time to try to teach his younger self what he had learned in the meantime. He finds him locked in a room (if I remember correctly), and is received by his enraged younger self who, upon being unlocked, receives 50 something years old Richard (author and protagonist) with violent attacks. He had been locked, and wasn't happy.
I am beginning to understand why this book touched me so much, I was doing exactly the same thing.

Many of us here haven't had very bright shiny pasts, some of us had therapy, some of us dealt with it the best way we could, some might not have dealt with it at all. Question is, do we really know whether we've dealt with it or just locked it away? I don't think it is that easy to tell.
Part of the aim of the Work on cleansing one self will necessarily include dealing with past issues, and eventually being able to clean any resultant disfunctions out of the system. But, and a big BUT here, suppressed emotions is a hard one to tackle.
For example, if you've spent a lifetime doing it because that is what you have learned as a child, not only will it be hard to recognize the underlying pattern, but to even feel the emotions and be able to identify them correctly. They have been so distorted by years of forced compression that you can no longer understand them. Though one can be completely convinced that he/she can.
I'm not completely sure but I think it is Myth of Sanity by Martha Stout that also addresses this very well.

How can you tell the difference between suppressing or dealing with the past?
Not been easy for me to distinguish, I have been confusing all along playing the victim program with rightfully allowing the healing process to take its place.
I now understand that I have learned from childhood that crying meant playing the victim, which meant not allowed to, EVER.
So I developed a "technique": after crying over an issue, I would forcefully decide that enough crying had been done, and I should just move one. I was basically applying what I had learned, stop crying and get over it. What I didn't understand is that pain will eventually subside if you allow it to hurt, if you allow enough crying and respect the natural process of cleansing...
Bending a natural process to one's wishes or assumptions will only get us the illusion of getting it right, and instill even more the need to be in control. Sadly, we'll end up corrupting the natural flow of a learning process.

How to look for cues.
I can't speak for someone else, but would be really interested to know.
As for myself, when something more delicate (meaning something with some sort of connection or resemblance to what I've experienced in the past) would be approached in conversation, I would often have an almost gut reaction of shutting it off, deviating the conversation or expose a strong and emotionally inducted opinion, with no margin for discussion. Now that I look back it was obvious, the cues for suppression were there, I just didn't' see them....

Being able to differentiate the issue of letting go or suppressing has more then it meets the eye. Control is a big one here, though there are different types of control as I see it. The imposed control over my emotions, and the control that comes from naturally experiencing them, from allowing the natural flow of emotions, and life itself, to teach me how to deal with them. Trying to control something of which I don't have the knowledge or means to, will only lead a corrupted learning process, often a shortcut when there can be none.
What I am getting to is that if we're not allowed to fully experience pain, pleasure, fear and all the multicoloured range of emotions we have, we won't have the Knowledge + Experience to be able to deal with them with the correct type of Control. Knowledge + Experience will lead to a completely different type of Control then the forceful one derived from lack of experience. The latter leading to an addictive need for more forcefull control.

Apologies for going around and around on the same subject. Guess I am also clearing up my mind, so my thoughts are still a bit messy

EDIT: clarification

 

[Turgon]

Hey Gertrudes,

I think you have really answered your own questions in the post you provided.

I have been thinking a lot on what is the difference, and how that difference is manifested, between having dealt with the past and leaving it behind, or having locked the past in a cage and hiding it from sight.

A lot of people do lock the past in a cage and hide it from sight, only to see it manifest in different ways. Some of our personality traits and behaviours are based upon childhood traumas and events that show themselves in self-destructive behaviour. Whether it be a need to try to control everything around you, or a lack of concern and non-chalantness for yourself or situations, low self-esteem and self-confidence, living in constant fear of 'what if's', etc...

That's why it's SO important to read the recommended psychology books
Myth of Sanity
Trapped in the Mirror
The Narcissistic Family
Unholy Hungers

It gives us that new perspective to really understand. not only ourselves but the people around us. Gives us that mirror to see ourselves for what we are. In Trapped in the Mirror, Elan Golomb talks about our Psychological Blindspot. We can only see so much of ourselves unbiasedly, and the rest is hard to see clearly. But reading about, and understanding narcissism, and dissociation is incredibly important, because now we know about it, and once we actually know something, we can then take steps to counter-act these behavioural traits if they are destructive and not helpful to positive growth.

And utilizing a lot of the tools Gurdjieff taught, such as Self-Rememberinghttp://www.cassiopedia.org/glossary/Self-Remembering, active reasoning, intense effort to see yourself for who you really are. Why am I thinking this way? Why am I acting like this? Why don't I want to deal with this right now? And actively, intensely look for the answer. And don't settle for anything less than the real cause of it, even if the answer you find is an unpleasant one. I would think this is what Conscious Suffering, the Internal Struggle is all about.

How can you tell the difference between suppressing or dealing with the past?

I would think the above is a way of discovering the answer to that question.

How to look for cues.
I can't speak for someone else, but would be really interested to know.
As for myself, when something more delicate (meaning something with some sort of connection or resemblance to what I've experienced in the past) would be approached in conversation, I would often have an almost gut reaction of shutting it off, deviating the conversation or expose a strong and emotionally inducted opinion, with no margin for discussion. Now that I look back it was obvious, the cues for suppression were there, I just didn't' see them....

Each individual is different based upon their situation and upbringing, but I would think any type of personality trait that is deeply imbedded and hard to control. If there are traits that are automatic, then reflect on why you constantly act that way, and/or ask people around you that you trust and feel might be able to provide an objective opinion on the matter.

Being able to differentiate the issue of letting go or suppressing has more then it meets the eye. Control is a big one here, though there are different types of control as I see it. The imposed control over my emotions, and the control that comes from naturally experiencing them, from allowing the natural flow of emotions, and life itself, to teach me how to deal with them. Trying to control something of which I don't have the knowledge or means to, will only lead a corrupted learning process, often a shortcut when there can be none. What I am getting to is that if we're not allowed to fully experience pain, pleasure, fear and all the multicoloured range of emotions we have, we won't have the Knowledge + Experience to be able to deal with them with the correct type of Control. Knowledge + Experience will lead to a completely different type of Control then the forceful one derived from lack of experience. The latter leading to an addictive need for more forcefull control.

You're right, how can we control something we don't understand.

 

[Gertrudes]

Hi DanielS,

That's why it's SO important to read the recommended psychology books

True. And it was from reading those (only been through the first 3 so far) that I started to question my concept of Normality.

But reading about, and understanding narcissism, and dissociation is incredibly important, because now we know about it, and once we actually know something, we can then take steps to counter-act these behavioural traits if they are destructive and not helpful to positive growth.

Yes. As a general rule we'll tend to take our reactions as NORMAL, and the problem is that people around us will likely think the same. A bit like getting used to misery and accepting it as a normal condition.
That is why it can be so hard to understand the cues, what is there to see? we might think
The depth into which this suppressed stuff can go is amazing. You can live a double life, thinking that you're happy, whilst on the backround and without any conscious awareness on your part, a pile of repressed issues is limiting, if not controlling you.

I know this is nothing new really, it is just dawning on me how hidden these things can be

And utilizing a lot of the tools Gurdjieff taught, such as Self-Rememberinghttp://www.cassiopedia.org/glossary/Self-Remembering, active reasoning, intense effort to see yourself for who you really are.
.....
Each individual is different based upon their situation and upbringing, but I would think any type of personality trait that is deeply imbedded and hard to control. If there are traits that are automatic, then reflect on why you constantly act that way, and/or ask people around you that you trust and feel might be able to provide an objective opinion on the matter.

Thanks, that is really helpful.
Self Remembering is quite a tool. It takes effort, and that's probably why we won't find many people doing it.
I once read a book by a psychologist, I can't remember neither author nor book title, but he was describing a talk with one of his patients. In this talk, he was emphasising the importance of constantly being aware of one's thoughts and reactions. The patient didn't accept this well and her words went something like: "No way! I will need to make this much effort?!" She decided to drop therapy, it was just too much self observation for her.

And you're right, hard to control automatic traits are a big cue and outside help is needed to see them objectively. Me and my partner have been talking about this, and he is helping me to see things about myself. Problem is, sometimes he also tends to assume those traits as normal, as in, yes, they are there, but it is the way you are. I really appreciate his respect for me but also think that those traits aren't what I wish to be. And many people will condescend with one's automatic responses because they react similarly.

Maybe, the real task is to be able to find one's own shocks and alarm clocks...

 

[anart]

Thanks, that is really helpful.
Self Remembering is quite a tool. It takes effort, and that's probably why we won't find many people doing it. [...]
"No way! I will need to make this much effort?!" She decided to drop therapy, it was just too much self observation for her.

It's true, self-observation is exhausting at the beginning. When I started to take this material seriously; when I actually began to see it for what it is - I spent the vast bulk of each day taking in so much information and spending such energy applying that information to myself that I would literally come home at the end of the day so tired, I would be asleep by 6:30 pm. It was the most exhausting thing I've ever done because there is no part of oneself that does not take part in the process, or that is kept protected from the process.

This went on for months, until it slowed just a bit as I started to assimilate things slightly differently, incorporating the work I'd already done and it continues to this day. It is not as tiring now to self-observe, but other things take place that can be just as exhausting as those first few months of intensive Work. In fact, it's been my experience that the more progress one makes, the more is required of them - both internally and externally. But - what more could one ask for in a life? To gain knowledge and to always know that there is more knowledge to gain; that you've really just begun!

And you're right, hard to control automatic traits are a big cue and outside help is needed to see them objectively. Me and my partner have been talking about this, and he is helping me to see things about myself. Problem is, sometimes he also tends to assume those traits as normal, as in, yes, they are there, but it is the way you are. I really appreciate his respect for me but also think that those traits aren't what I wish to be. And many people will condescend with one's automatic responses because they react similarly.

Yes, this is true. It can be difficult to get objective input from one's partner - there is a lot of emotional interference. That is why an objective network is invaluable.

Maybe, the real task is to be able to find one's own shocks and alarm clocks...

Oh that it were that easy. It's a nice idea, but not possible. Any alarm clock one builds themselves will soon cease to work, Ouspensky discussed what Gurdjieff had to say about this:

Only a man who fully realizes the difficulty of awakening can understand the necessity of long and hard work in order to awake.

Speaking in general, what is necessary to awake a sleeping man? A good shock is necessary. But when a man is fast asleep one shock is not enough. A long period of continual shocks is needed. Consequently there must be somebody to administer these shocks. I have said before that if a man wants to awaken he must hire somebody who will keep on shaking him for a long time. But whom can he hire if everyone is asleep? A man will hire somebody to wake him up but this one also falls asleep. What is the use of such a man? And a man who. can really keep awake will probably refuse to waste his time in waking others up: he may have his own much more important work to do.

There is also the possibility of being awakened by mechanical means. A man may be awakened by an alarm clock. But the trouble is that a man gets accustomed to the alarm clock far too quickly, he ceases to hear it. Many alarm clocks are necessary and always new ones. Otherwise a man must surround himself with alarm clocks which will prevent him sleeping. But here again there are certain difficulties. Alarm clocks must be wound up; in order to wind them up one must remember about them; in order to remember one must wake up often. But what is still worse, a man gets used to all alarm clocks and after a certain time he only sleeps the better for them. Therefore alarm clocks must be constantly changed, new ones must be continually invented. In the course of time this may help a man to awaken. But there is very little chance of a man doing all the work of winding up, inventing, and changing clocks all by himself, without outside help. It is much more likely that he will begin this work and that it will afterwards pass into sleep, and in sleep he will dream of inventing alarm clocks, of winding them up and changing them, and simply sleep all the sounder for it.

Therefore, in order to awaken, a combination of efforts is needed. It is necessary that somebody should wake the man up; it is necessary that somebody should look after the man who wakes him; it is necessary to have alarm clocks and it is also necessary continually to invent new alarm clocks.

But in order to achieve all this and to obtain results a certain number of people must work together. One man can do nothing. Before anything else he needs help. But help cannot come to one man alone. Those who are able to help put a great value on their time. And, of course, they would prefer to help, say, twenty or thirty people who want to awake rather than one man. Moreover, as has been said earlier, one man can easily deceive himself about his awakening and take for awakening simply a new dream. If several people decide to struggle together against sleep, they will wake each other. It may often happen that twenty of them will sleep but the twenty-first will be awake and he will wake up the rest. It is exactly the same thing with alarm clocks. One man will invent one alarm clock, another man will invent another, afterwards they can make an exchange. Altogether they can be of very great help one to another, and without this help no one can attain anything.

Therefore a man who wants to awake must look for other people who also want to awake and work together with them. This, however, is easier said than done because to start such work and to organize it requires a knowledge which an ordinary man cannot possess. The work must be organized and it must have a leader. Only then can it produce the results expected of it. Without these conditions no efforts can result in anything whatever. Men may torture themselves but these tortures will not make them awake. This is the most difficult of all for certain people to understand. By themselves and on their own initiative they may be capable of great efforts and great sacrifices. But because their first effort and their first sacrifice ought to be obedience nothing on earth will induce them to obey another. And they do not want to reconcile themselves to the thought that all their efforts and all their sacrifices are useless.

 

[shijing]

Hi anart --

It's true, self-observation is exhausting at the beginning. When I started to take this material seriously; when I actually began to see it for what it is - I spent the vast bulk of each day taking in so much information and spending such energy applying that information to myself that I would literally come home at the end of the day so tired, I would be asleep by 6:30 pm. It was the most exhausting thing I've ever done because there is no part of oneself that does not take part in the process, or that is kept protected from the process...This went on for months, until it slowed just a bit as I started to assimilate things slightly differently, incorporating the work I'd already done and it continues to this day.

I sometimes get the impression that you were already involved with the Work before you came across Laura and the Cassiopaean experiment -- do I have the right impression, or am I mistaken? If so, I also wonder how you initially went about learning self-observation in whatever environment you were in, since as you mention above, you can't really set your own alarm clocks -- you need help from others. Please feel free to answer as specifically as you feel comfortable, but I'm guessing you have a lot to share about this, and I for one would be interested in listening.

 

[anart]

I sometimes get the impression that you were already involved with the Work before you came across Laura and the Cassiopaean experiment -- do I have the right impression, or am I mistaken? If so, I also wonder how you initially went about learning self-observation in whatever environment you were in, since as you mention above, you can't really set your own alarm clocks -- you need help from others.

Actually, I had never heard of Gurdjieff or the Fourth Way until I found Laura's body of work. I had led a life filled with a large amount of pain and suffering - all but an infinitesimal amount of it mechanical suffering. I learned a lesson or two along the way, but in the vast majority of cases, I learned nothing and drove myself more soundly into sleep with my reactions to trauma of different sorts.

I, like many people here, had always had at least one eye searching for something to make any of his ridiculous life make sense and had explored all sorts of spiritual schools of thought. I explored schools of thought from the East to the West to Newage to Pagan - investigating, and seeing a piece of what made sense here and there, but never seeing enough truth in any of them to make a difference of any sort.

Then, I stumbled upon this body of material due to an internet search on earthquakes, of all things, which took me to SotT, which took me to cass.org and the material on psychopathology - which is where all the pieces began to fall into place.

So - while life to that point provided a LOT of material from which to learn, I didn't discover how to learn until I found Laura's body of work and its associated bodies of work, such as Gurdjieff. At that point, once I realized what I had stumbled upon (and it took a little while to really realize that) EVERYTHING changed and learning about myself and Reality became all that mattered, because - at last - I found applicable truth, with data to back it up, that made sense of everything that never 'fit' about this place in which we reside.

The rest is an unfolding story that I feel very lucky to be a part of because no matter how excruciatingly painful this learning and Work can be at times (for our false personalities) - the results have taken a life of sleep and mechanical suffering and turned it into one of gaining knowledge and learning how to help others do the same - now that is miraculous as far as I'm concerned.

But - enough about me. ;)

 

[shijing]

Actually, I had never heard of Gurdjieff or the Fourth Way until I found Laura's body of work. I had led a life filled with a large amount of pain and suffering - all but an infinitesimal amount of it mechanical suffering. I learned a lesson or two along the way, but in the vast majority of cases, I learned nothing and drove myself more soundly into sleep with my reactions to trauma of different sorts.

That sounds familiar -- probably to many more people here than just me!

Then, I stumbled upon this body of material due to an internet search on earthquakes, of all things...

That gave me a big smile...I love stuff like that :)

So - while life to that point provided a LOT of material from which to learn, I didn't discover how to learn until I found Laura's body of work and its associated bodies of work, such as Gurdjieff. At that point, once I realized what I had stumbled upon (and it took a little while to really realize that) EVERYTHING changed and learning about myself and Reality became all that mattered, because - at last - I found applicable truth, with data to back it up, that made sense of everything that never 'fit' about this place in which we reside.

I see -- I feel like I am still in the middle of discovering how to learn -- I can see the benefits, and I feel like I understand it much more than I used to not long ago, but I don't feel like I'm all the way on the other side yet. Its inspirational to hear it discussed by you and others here who have real experience with this. Thanks for indulging my question (and Gertrudes, apologies for the detour!).

 

[Gertrudes]

Thanks for indulging my question (and Gertrudes, apologies for the detour!).

Not at all, threads take their own course. I might open one but it gains its own life, and that is how we learn, reading the experiences popping in from others.
Also appreciated Anart's story, it is insightful to learn others personal histories, and only more motivating for myself on my own journey.

It's true, self-observation is exhausting at the beginning.
(...)
It was the most exhausting thing I've ever done because there is no part of oneself that does not take part in the process, or that is kept protected from the process.[

This was very helpful, thank you Anart. I find myself thinking: surely I must be doing something wrong, self-observation is incredibly hard! Once I start, I keep getting distracted by some sort of inner chatter, over and over. Reading your experience gave me some sort of perspective for what to expect, a sort of a guide so that whenever I feel overwhelmed due to the intensity of the work, at least I know it is supposed to be intense and others have been through it.

Yes, this is true. It can be difficult to get objective input from one's partner - there is a lot of emotional interference. That is why an objective network is invaluable.

True.

Maybe, the real task is to be able to find one's own shocks and alarm clocks...

Oh that it were that easy. It's a nice idea, but not possible. Any alarm clock one builds themselves will soon cease to work, Ouspensky discussed what Gurdjieff had to say about this:

yes, it would be nice if it would be that easy!..I read that excerpt from ISOTM before, but had completely forgotten, thanks for the reminder.
It makes complete sense. I can particularly relate to this excerpt sooooo well:

It is much more likely that he will begin this work and that it will afterwards pass into sleep, and in sleep he will dream of inventing alarm clocks, of winding them up and changing them, and simply sleep all the sounder for it.

By reading this now, I just recognized having done this many times in the past. So far that was the only solution I had known. A shock would wake me up and I would create alarm clocks from that shock, only to fall a sleep and continue creating them in my sleep. Chance would then wake me up and the process would repeat itself all over again.
As you said, a network of people with the same goals is absolutely necessary.

At that point, once I realized what I had stumbled upon (and it took a little while to really realize that) EVERYTHING changed and learning about myself and Reality became all that mattered, because - at last - I found applicable truth, with data to back it up, that made sense of everything that never 'fit' about this place in which we reside.

I see -- I feel like I am still in the middle of discovering how to learn -- I can see the benefits, and I feel like I understand it much more than I used to not long ago, but I don't feel like I'm all the way on the other side yet. Its inspirational to hear it discussed by you and others here who have real experience with this.

I think am beginning to really understand what it means to learn about reality. I have spent so much time trying to understand what to do, and being brain washed by today's beliefs of YCYOR, yet secretly confused feeling that something (a big something may I say) was just being ignored. As I see it now, how can I understand anything at all without first looking to what is there for me to see?
I agree with you Shijiing, it is not only inspirational but very helpful to read the experiences of someone who has been through it.