Death and the Work

[go2]

http://quantumfuture.net/qfs/qfs_intro.htm

Based on observation and research, it is apparent that humanity as a whole has now reached a great historical crossroads. We have come to the end of a two thousand year history of intolerance, cruelty and stupidity which has created our present state of global, collective madness. Humanity, as a collective whole, is arriving at a state of collective Spiritual Bankruptcy, or "death." And yet, we cannot assume that this is meaningless.

His factitious existence is only a loan: it is temporary and ends with DEATH, according to the divine word: "for dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return." What is the sense and purpose of such and existence?...........Here we are touching on the great problem of DEATH. The more man identifies hinmself with his Personality, the less he thinks of death. Contrary to all evidence as he sees everthing die all around him, man has no spontaneous feeling of his mortality. Though gifted with fertile imagination, man can conceive of his own death only with difficulty. An effort is needed in order to come to the idea of one's own death, and to create its image. All man can imagine in this respect is to evoke the image of his own corpse; he can never exclude from this representation the observer who contemplates this image.....the mental effort of representing his own death detaches man a little,
unaccountably not only from identification with his own body, but also from his Personality.........This exercise is useful and even necessary......It is thus that one learns that in effect: "all is vanity and torments of the mind."

I have been reading GNOSIS and have tried this excercise. It has touched some inner buffers, and resulted in my experiencing an unaccustomed fear. Have others tried this excercise and with what result?

 

[Color]

http://quantumfuture.net/qfs/qfs_intro.htm

I have been reading GNOSIS and have tried this excercise. It has touched some inner buffers, and resulted in my experiencing an unaccustomed fear. Have others tried this excercise and with what result?

When I was a kid I used to that - imagining what would be like to see my dead body and which part of 'me' would die with it.
I thought about it a lot, cause death itself was such a taboo and nobody seemed to have any answers.
I remember my mom told me something about few 'options' presented, christian 'paradise' one,
then possible ghost-wondering-around one and a complete determination of my existence one
What a choice for a lil kid, eh?

I guess it is an individual level of how much one's attached to his physical existence.
And even that changes a lot with experiences, one's preoccupations at times.
But thinking about our own mortality is important aspect of this existence.
It opens a door to some other more important questions, if one's willing to ask/explore further.

About 'an unaccustomed fear', well... One can find great amount of fear in everyday life, in 'lil' things,
controlling human behavior in such a tremendous aspect that fear of dying looks like a kid's treat.
At least a fear of confronting one's own 'death' is an obvious, easy accesible one. It can be a good reminder
of all the stupidity we accept and participate in, mechanically, every single day of our life.
How many illusions human society sells and buys, while, at the same time, important, crucial things
are wiped of and put under the carpet. Even to ask about those makes one a serious 'threat to society'.

So, this exercise is good when combined with all the other related question, people should practice
and then go after finding answers and the Truth
That is, if they're not too afraid it will cost them their place in 'Paradise' ;-P

 

[nemo]

The more man identifies hinmself with his Personality, the less he thinks of death

Hm...strange. Since being a kid Death seems to be a permanent companion in my life, starting with my juvenile asthma attacks,
which were so bad I literally wished I could die right now and then. Same with the horrible migraine attacks which made me vomit.
Later, during the Reagan years I was convinced for years that nuclear armageddon would happen any time. I`ve seen many people
die during my many year long stint in a couple of nursery homes. Since then, almost every other day, I`m pondering my death and
trying to visualize it. If taking a look at the many novels I`ve read, death is often a major theme. In my last novel, Dan Simmons`
The Terror about the doomed Antarctic expedition by Sir John Franklin, I`ve spent almost 2 weeks witnessing the seamen die from
scurvy and exposition (and always visualizing myself among the sorry lot).
Have you ever tried the following Death Meditation: _http://www.meditationiseasy.com/mCorner/techniques/Death_meditation.htm?
It did not create any fear in me.
The thing is, this preoccupation with death didn`t seem to prevent me from identifying with my personality at all.
It rather became a part of it, somehow.

 

[PepperFritz]

The thing is, this preoccupation with death didn`t seem to prevent me from identifying with my personality at all. It rather became a part of it, somehow.

Have you read the work of Oliver Sacks? He is a neurologist who writes "clinical tales" about people with various physical and mental "pathologies" (e.g. neurological problems, color-blindness, deafness, Turette's Syndrome, autism, manic-depression, etc.), from a remarkably compassionate and insightful perspective. He basically argues that people's personalities and their pathologies cannot be separated, that the pathologies inevitably become part of who they "are", to such an extent that living without them sometimes involves a difficult adjustment. He has found that people with long-standing pathologies often feel lost and "bereft" upon being "cured" of them.

I have also never had a fear of death, and often have difficulty understanding its power for some people. I attribute it to having had frequent "out-of-body" experiences throughout my childhood and adolescence, which I think prevented an over-identification of "me" with my physical body. I've also always been open to the idea of past, future, and parallel lives, and have frequent dreams in which I am "me" and yet at the same time "someone else", so it is not a stretch for me to accept the idea that my current "personality" is only a small (and passing) facet of a larger "self". Sometimes I think of myself and this life in the third person, with a sense of "I shall miss 'her' when this life is over, much as an actor might miss a favourite role when he moves on to another play.

About 15 years ago I had an incredibly intense dream that will always have deep emotional significance for me. I dreamt that I was sitting at the feet of a man who was my "father", sobbing and begging him to "let me come home". I have never in my waking life felt such an intense feeling of longing and homesickness. But my "father" remained stone-faced and unmoved by my pleas, saying simply "You know you cannot, it is not time." Most of the time I am fully engaged in this life and its lessons, but a part of me is always looking forward to going "there"....

 

[nemo]

Have you read the work of Oliver Sacks?

I`ve read one or two of his books lots of years ago, while having first (or is it second ?) hand experiences with less exotic forms of mental illnesses
in homes for the elderly (beyond various forms of dementia). When I visualize myself being cured of this death-interest I see a more
easygoing nemo, someone who would be much happier with materialistic values, trends, fashions and parties.

I've also always been open to the idea of past, future, and parallel lives, and have frequent dreams in which I am "me"
and yet at the same time "someone else", so it is not a stretch for me to accept the idea that my current "personality" is only a small (and passing)
facet of a larger "self". Sometimes I think of myself and this life in the third person, with a sense of "I shall miss 'her' when this life is over, much
as an actor might miss a favourite role when he moves on to another play.

Puuh...I`ve had similiar dreams and very much the same thoughts, still have.
Another analogy would be getting into your car, which is an extension of your body, as Marshall McLuhan suggested, and spent a day driving from point A to point B.
Are you dead once you have arrived and leave the car (body)?

One of my weirdest "dreams" occured during one of my occasional meditations (similiar to the death meditation), in which I`m lying down trying
to relax my body as best as I can (do try to completely relax your face muscles and you`ll see how difficult it can be). My body actually fell asleep,
while my mind was still awake (heard myself snoring - weeird). Soon I didn`t feel my body any longer. Maybe I fell asleep after a while.
I remember distinctly being outside The World, conscious but unattached. The visual of The World, as seen from outside could be described as
a cluster of spherical flickering lights, much like, say, LA at night, hanging in dark space. This was followed by the strangest feeling I`ve yet
experienced. The perception of sensation - feeling the textures of my bedspreat through the skin of my hand.
The slow realization of my physicality seeped in, followed by the shocking revelation of actually
occuping a material bodyand having to get back into nemo`s (!!) booooooring life.

Am still quite afraid of pain and the dying process, having witnessed how desperately even very old and terminally sick people cling to life and are unable to let go.

 

[sHiZo963]

Based on observation and research, it is apparent that humanity as a whole has now reached a great historical crossroads. We have come to the end of a two thousand year history of intolerance, cruelty and stupidity which has created our present state of global, collective madness. Humanity, as a collective whole, is arriving at a state of collective Spiritual Bankruptcy, or "death." And yet, we cannot assume that this is meaningless.

His factitious existence is only a loan: it is temporary and ends with DEATH, according to the divine word: "for dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return." What is the sense and purpose of such and existence?...........Here we are touching on the great problem of DEATH. The more man identifies hinmself with his Personality, the less he thinks of death. Contrary to all evidence as he sees everthing die all around him, man has no spontaneous feeling of his mortality. Though gifted with fertile imagination, man can conceive of his own death only with difficulty. An effort is needed in order to come to the idea of one's own death, and to create its image. All man can imagine in this respect is to evoke the image of his own corpse; he can never exclude from this representation the observer who contemplates this image.....the mental effort of representing his own death detaches man a little,
unaccountably not only from identification with his own body, but also from his Personality.........This exercise is useful and even necessary......It is thus that one learns that in effect: "all is vanity and torments of the mind."

It's important to note that what the QFG meant by death (in quotes) is quite different from the physical death that Mouravieff refers to. "Death," esoterically speaking, is defined in the Glossary; the two meanings of Death are linked when in comes to the Work, as the following quote from Gurdjieff's essay The Last Hour of Life elucidates:

Freedom is worth a million times more than liberation. The free man, even in slavery, remains a master of himself.
[…]
From the moment of conception we are living on borrowed time. Living in this world you have to feel death each second, so settle all your life affairs, even in your last hour. But how can anyone know exactly his last hour? For the sense of security make up your things with nature and yourself in every hour given to you, then you will never be met unprepared.
[…]
Ask yourself who will be in difficulty if you die like a dog. At the moment of death you have to be wholly aware of yourself and feel that you have done everything possible to use all, within your abilities, in this life which was given to you.
[…]
A real man is one who could take from life everything that was valuable in it, and say :'And now I can die'. We have to try to live your lives so that we could say any day :'Today I can die and not be sorry about anything'.
[…]
When I was young I learned to prepare fragrances. I learned to extract from life it's essence, its most subtle qualities. Search in everything the most valuable, learn to separate the fine from the coarse. One who has learned how to extract the essence, the most important from each moment of life, has reached a sense on quality.

He is able to do with the world something that can not be done by just anybody.
[…]
It could be that in the last moments of your life you will not have the choice where and with whom to be, but you will have a choice to decide how fully you will live them. The ability to take the valuable from life - is the same as to take from the food, air and the impressions the substances needed to build up your higher bodies. If you want to take from your life the most valuable for yourself, it has to be for the good of the higher; for yourself it is enough to leave just a little. To work on yourself for the good of others is a smart way to receive the best from life for yourself. If you will not be satisfied with the last hour of your life, you will not be happy about the whole of your life. To die means to come through something which is impossible to repeat again. To spend your precious time in nothing means to deprive yourself the opportunity to extract from life the most valuable.

The focus is not on the nature of the physical death itself but on the state of Being at the time of Death, the point of "no return." Death as a "companion" is used in the Work to remind us that we are here on "borrowed time" and that we must not squander the opportunity to develop our Being.

Therefore, I do not think that imagining one's corpse will do one any good (in terms of the Work). In fact, it could be regarded as negative because it distracts one via an overactive imagination from what is really important - which is: to TRULY live while we still can.

Am still quite afraid of pain and the dying process, having witnessed how desperately even very old and terminally sick people cling to life and are unable to let go.

Could it be because they realize that they are, to use Gurdjieff's terminology, "dying like a dog," because they have not taken the maximum "essence" out of the life that they were given, i.e. the "borrowed time" of life?

 

[go2]

From the moment of conception we are living on borrowed time. Living in this world you have to feel death each second, so settle all your life affairs, even in your last hour. But how can anyone know exactly his last hour? For the sense of security make up your things with nature and yourself in every hour given to you, then you will never be met unprepared

The focus is not on the nature of the physical death itself but on the state of Being at the time of Death, the point of "no return." Death as a "companion" is used in the Work to remind us that we are here on "borrowed time" and that we must not squander the opportunity to develop our Being.

Therefore, I do not think that imagining one's corpse will do one any good (in terms of the Work). In fact, it could be regarded as negative because it distracts one via an overactive imagination from what is really important - which is: to TRULY live while we still can.

I am new to posting on sott.net and as I write these words, I am filled with a joy to have communication with ones who don't think I am a "nut" for not finding the diversions of life enough. I am not just a Cassandra or a killjoy. Thanks for the responses.

sHiZo963, Thanks for your post. It illuminates and clarifies many of the experiences I have had in the last
several months. I have had a strong sense that I am running out of time and that I might not pass this way
again. This has intensified the experiences of each day. I seem more aware. This has been confusing since
the joy of presence is accompanied with the awareness of the STS nature of this life and the inevitable end of
this chance. I realize I have spent much of life in diversions of the STS life. It was cozy, but the inner voice
was always in the background. I have tried to do Work alone, by reading sott.net and the recommended books
for two years. I realize from the few insights I have had, that I can't see or understand very much on my own.

I have also never had a fear of death, and often have difficulty understanding its power for some people. I attribute it to having had frequent "out-of-body" experiences throughout my childhood and adolescence, which I think prevented an over-identification of "me" with my physical body.

Even to ask about those makes one a serious 'threat to society'.

I recall having "out of the body experiences" frequently as a child until around the age of six. I talked about
this in "show and tell" in kindergarden and the teachers called my parents in for a conference as there was
concern about my seeing or experiencing a reality they didn't approve of. Needless to say, after the uproar, I became circumspect and insecure about my inner life. Much of this early experience faded without use or feedback.

 

[nemo]

Therefore, I do not think that imagining one's corpse will do one any good (in terms of the Work). In fact, it could be regarded as negative because it distracts one via an overactive imagination from what is really important - which is: to TRULY live while we still can..

The point of this meditation is not so much imagining one`s corpse, but to completely relax mentally and physically. There seems to be some evidence (first read about it in Wilhelm Reich`s work) that one can more easily discover buried or subconscious psychomaterial while being in a state of complete relaxation. This relates primarily to psychotherapy. Such a relaxed (and somewhat more detached, less distracted) mental state COULD make it easier to self remember/observe oneself in past actions, especially if they happened in the more distant past. I might be on the wrong track, but it seems to be worth exploring. I didn`t have many experiences as mentioned above, so the "overactive imagination" aspect maybe doesn`t play such a big role, but I`m aware of your point here! Based on my past experiences the difficulty lies more in not falling asleep (in a literal sense) and staying focused rather than falling into the trap of indulging in subjective "dreamstates".

 

[Ruth]

I am not just a Cassandra or a killjoy.

I'm not sure what either of these are. Do they do something specific?

Do you actually fear death (as it is a part of life), or perhaps something that you associate with death?

 

[nemo]

Thesaurus says:
Killjoy: A person who deliberately spoils the enjoyment of others through resentful behaviour.

Cassandra, in greek mythology, was the daughter of the trojan king Priamos and his wife Hekabe.
She`s one of Homer`s characters in his play Ilias about the siege of Troj.
Greek God Apollon fell in love with her and gave her the gift of prophecy, so that she would love him as well.
Lo and behold, she despised him.
Appolon in turn cursed her special talent so that nobody ever believed her.
In vain, she prophesized her own death as well as the Trojan Horse. Troj became lost to the greeks and she herself
was raped and died some time after giving birth to a boy.
Or so the story goes. In short, Cassandra is a stand in for a real prophet, whom nobody bothers to give credence.

 

[go2]

I am not just a Cassandra or a killjoy.

I'm not sure what either of these are. Do they do something specific?

Do you actually fear death (as it is a part of life), or perhaps something that you associate with death?

I was using Cassandra as one who predicts future events which are harmful or disruptive, usually to awaken the complacent. I violated others free will for most of my life by talking about reality they didn't ask to hear. Reading the material on sott.net gave me a whole new perspective on letting people maintain their illusions without me
intruding. I also discovered how little I know. I have gone silent unless asked.
The word kiljoy is used by those who choose to ignore the negative aspects of reality to discribe someone who disrupts their illusion with a negative or more complete view of reality.

It has touched some inner buffers, and resulted in my experiencing an unaccustomed fear.

Do you actually fear death (as it is a part of life), or perhaps something that you associate with death?

Thanks for asking this question. I have seen friends and family die, yet this knowledge of the body and personalities certain end remained theoretical as Mouravieff suggests. I have had the sense that I am running
out of time to learn the lessons of this life.

The songs I have come to sing, remain unsung!

I have been reading sott.net for two years and attempting to practice self-observation alone. One of the
few realizations I have had as a result of the practice is how difficult it is to see myself. I have experienced
fear or anxiety from this shining the light my inner and outer reality. Intellectually I don't fear death, until
I begin to consider the implications of this event certain. I don't know how or what the answer to your question
is. I have been trying to put it into thoughts and/or words, but it eludes me. I only know that I have felt fear
and have not tried to escape or ex(plain) this sensation. I attempt to fully experience this without escaping to the mind, which is where this knowledge is stored. I know this sounds confused, but that is where I am today and
I thank all as I try to pass from knowledge of death, to understanding of death.

In this factitious life, ruled by Illusion, yet strewn with 'B' influences, we must reaffirm our values almost every day if we are not to fall into another trap. We generally agree to recognize the existence of the danger of Illusion, but rather theoretically; most often, we see its action on those round about us, but not on ourselves. We continue to live day by day in the same old way, so that the power we know as the Devil still triumphs. Whatever name we give it, it remains ever-present. We live in an artificail illusory world. ........If we keep quietly to our place, human careers open to us...just as long as we stay far away from the void. We may have a happy or unhappy life;a family life; a life of loves; we may make discoveries, travel, write. Then comes the end.

Our reasoning starts to become more realistic if our attention is concentrated on this end. Everything can happen to us in life;or nothing. Our aspirations can be fulfilled or unfulfilled, but there is a sure end, which is death. In our studies we must start from this fact.

Faced with this spectacle, A feeling of the absurd arises within us. Instead of reassuring us, the headlong progress of technology inspires a fear and uncertainty which saps the previously unshakeable force of Illusion.
we start to experience increasing interest in the problem of death, which only yesterday remained hidden behind the scenes of waking consciousness.