Death of Rudolf Hess

ELTE2307

Padawan Learner
I read in the transcript of 98/01/24 that Hess didn't survive his crash in Scotland.
But afert the war Hess (or someone else) got a life sentence and hanged himself in 1987.
So If Hess really died in the crash, why all this comedy ?

I can anderstand that for political and strategical reasons Hess was "kept alive" during the war but why not simply "stop the play" after the war ?

ELTE2307
 
Re: DEAD OF RUDOLF HESS

Interesting question, there are number of photos of man "supposedly" RH during the WWII, most of them pretty blurred or whole figure with low details on face used for propaganda against Hitler but low profile after the war up to "RH's" death. Could it be that the man known as RH was another Manchurian Candidate. Perhaps he could not pop out his role, on other hand the way he died was one of the most convenient termination scenarios for number of secret services, very popular way to get rid of problematic targets. Especially with prefix MI....... originally involved in captured "RH's" creation.
 
Re: DEAD OF RUDOLF HESS

ELTE2307 said:
I read in the transcript of 98/01/24 that Hess didn't survive his crash in Scotland.
But afert the war Hess (or someone else) got a life sentence and hanged himself in 1987.
So If Hess really died in the crash, why all this comedy ?

I can anderstand that for political and strategical reasons Hess was "kept alive" during the war but why not simply "stop the play" after the war ?

ELTE2307

The only thing I can imagine is that some pathocrats thought it would benefit them if certain other pathocrats believed he was still alive. Like to keep some illusion going, a game of “he thinks that I think that he thinks that I. . . “

Of course I don’t know much of anything about it really.
 
Re: DEAD OF RUDOLF HESS

Or could it be that two realities intertwined ?
In one reality Hess died in the crash and on the other one he survived the crash and died in jail.

ELTE 2307
 
Re: DEAD OF RUDOLF HESS

ELTE2307 said:
Or could it be that two realities intertwined ?
In one reality Hess died in the crash and on the other one he survived the crash and died in jail.

I'm not really sure that things work that way (being able to experience two simultaneous realities). I believe the closest that we would come to this would be if our past was altered, and we experienced the affect in our present, complete with 'old' memories of that past being replaced by 'new' ones. But it wouldn't involve admixture of both -- that's my present understanding anyway.
 
Re: DEAD OF RUDOLF HESS

Shijing said:
ELTE2307 said:
Or could it be that two realities intertwined ?
In one reality Hess died in the crash and on the other one he survived the crash and died in jail.


I'm not really sure that things work that way (being able to experience two simultaneous realities). I believe the closest that we would come to this would be if our past was altered, and we experienced the affect in our present, complete with 'old' memories of that past being replaced by 'new' ones. But it wouldn't involve admixture of both -- that's my present understanding anyway.

The Wave Chapter V said:
Q: (SV) But, if there is no time? (J) It is our perception of it. (L) It is all happening simultaneously. We are having all of these lifetimes at once. (SV) Is there a way that we can connect ourselves with all our other selves?
A: Picture it this way: we will access some of your memory banks and give you another reference which, interestingly enough, fits very closely with the perpendicular reality wheel that we described earlier. You know what a slide projector looks like? To give you some feeling of what this expanded nature of reality really is, picture yourself watching a big slide presentation with a big slide wheel on the projector. At any given point along the way you are watching one particular slide. But, all the rest of the slides are present on the wheel, are they not? And, of course, this fits in with the perpendicular reality, which fits in with the circles within circles and cycles within cycles, which also fits in the Grand Cycle, which also fits in with what we have told you before: All there is is lessons. That's all there is. And we ask that you enjoy them as you are watching the slide presentation...
Q: (J) In that analogy, the light that shines through the slide, as it projects it upon the screen, is our perception.
A: And, if you look back at the center of the projector, you see the origin and essence of all creation itself, which, is level seven where you are in union with the One.

Does this mean that in order for two realities to coexist in one plane, there needs to be at least two observers, each from one of the realities, in the same plane? In my experience, the only coexisting/overlapping memories of events seem to be instances where there is at least one other observer that remembers or notices the same thing. Using the metaphor of the slide projector, the two realities would not be intertwined as much as superimposed upon one another?

Edit - Fixed Quotes
 
Re: DEAD OF RUDOLF HESS

The powers that be would not simply "stop the play" due to the war ending. That would involved revealing their methods and letting people know how ruthless they are. Not to mention somebody getting into trouble for having a fake Hess and presumably an innocent man (if indeed that was the case), spending decades in prison for someone else's crimes. Not their style! These people never reveal the truth if they can avoid it. The truth is precious, why give it away? It was Churchill who said "Truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies."
 
I dunno. There are a number of "conspiracy theories" about Hess. Even that disinfo organ, wikipedia suggests that something isn't right about the Hess case:

Hess' 1941 attempt to negotiate peace and subsequent lifelong imprisonment have given rise to many theories about his motivation for flying to Scotland, and conspiracy theories about why he remained imprisoned alone at Spandau, long after all other convicts had been released.

Precise and detailed information on many aspects of Hess' situation either has been withheld in confidential archives in several nations, or has disappeared outright; this has made accurate historical conclusions very problematic.[1]
 
There is certainly something odd about the Hess case. Normally, secrets are released after, I believe, it is 50 years in the UK. I remember reading in, it must have been, the early 1990s, that a British judge reviewed the Hess files and said that it could not be released. Wikipidia says the Hess files are sealed until 2016. One can only speculate about what could be so explosive that it had to be sealed for an additional 25 years. I also remember reading about Hess in one of the Cassiopaean transcripts. The Cassies said (if I recall correctly) that the real Hess died that night in Scotland. So who was the guy who lived in Spandau Prison all those years?
 
Below is the session where Laura asked about Hess.

Session 980124 said:
Q: Alright. Along the same lines of the Sabrina Aisenberg issue, I was reading a book about Churchill and Hitler and
Rudolf Hess. It seems that this writer was saying that the man in Spandau Prison was NOT Rudolf Hess. Is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: What happened to Rudolf Hess?
A: Died in plane crash in Scotland.
Q: He died? Was this the reported crash landing?
A: Yes.
Q: He DIED in that crash?
A: Yes.
Q: Who was the guy who parachuted out?
A: Did not.
Q: They made up the whole story?
A: No, just Hess survival, for propaganda value.
Q: Well that is a bizarre thing to say about it. But, it is also another option that the writer of that book did NOT consider.
But what about the farmer who saw a guy parachute out of the plane?
A: So they say.
Q: Well, I guess they could have set the whole thing up. That would be even MORE devious!
A: Real Hess would never have relented to abuse.
Q: Hmmm. Did Hess actually fly to Scotland?
A: Yes.
Q: Did Hitler know and was he in on it?
A: Yes.
Q: So, they had to make Hitler think Hess survived in order to fool him into thinking that whatever the plan was it was
working?
A: Hitler believed Hess had gone mad, or had indeed died.
Q: Well, this is a bizarre question, but I have to ask it. Was Hitler a homosexual?
A: No.
Q: Well, this book suggests that he had an unusual relationship with Rudolf Hess. But, others said that he was completely
ascetic in ALL ways.
A: Book is wrong in other ways too.
 
An interesting book on a related topic is called "Bodyguard of Lies" by Anthony Cave Brown.
 
FWIW...

i red the biography of R.H by David Irving, and , despite the info you can find in wikipedia (at least spanish version), Irving tell in detail what R.H. did:
He cheat/betray everybody telling that he had lost his memory, misleading even the several psichiatrists that examined him. He did this so well, that everybody believed his words.Even with his closests friends, he "did the show"
BUT, the end day of Nurenberg´s trial he surprisingly recover his memory, and told "his truth", and said he remembered all and always did, and said that he knews his fellows -you know, Goering, etc, that were sitting close to him- and that he wanted the same destiny or judgement... (excuse me for language limitations)
¿Was "these" Hess the same person who, as C´s told, died in UK? Why was he the ONLY nazi leader in Spandau for so many years? Do you know that for years "allies" wait for hess die to demolish Spandau?
Weird...
 
The long awaited release of British government documents on the fate of Nazi No. 2 Rudolf Hess has failed to dispel numerous conspiracy theories about his death in 1987 at Spandau Prison in Berlin. Buried in the 71 files released to the National Archives in London are some intriguing revelations.

Rudolf Hess: Mystery of Hitler's Deputy's Death Thickens (DOCUMENTS) 20.07.2017
https://sputniknews.com/world/201707201055690824-rudolf-hess-uk-documents-death/

By Nikolai Gorshkov — Successive British governments dismissed suggestions by historians that Hitler's deputy Rudolf Hess undertook his daredevil flight to Scotland on a "peace" mission in the thick of the German bombing blitz of Britain because of an "understanding" between the Nazis and a pro-German party within the British establishment. Many a book has been written about Hitler's desire to strike a peace deal with London to free his hands for the invasion of the Soviet Union — or even sign Britain up for a joint crusade against the Communists, hated by both Hitler and Churchill. Indeed, Hess flew to Britain only six weeks before Germany attacked the Soviet Union. The British always denied he told them about Operation Barbarossa but Stalin believed he did and even invited Britain to join in. Churchill, for all his anti-Communism, didn't accept the offer and took Hess prisoner.

Significant Gaps - At the Nurnberg trial of leading Nazis in 1946 Hess was found guilty of crimes against peace and sentenced to life in prison. Until his death in 1987 he called the verdict perverse, since he had risked his life and limb on a "peace mission." Completely isolated from the world at the Allies' Spandau Prison in West Berlin, Hess secretly made copious notes about his endeavor on rolls of toilet paper and tried to have them smuggled out by a French pastor. The plot was uncovered and the world lost a chance to learn about what had really happened between Hess and the British in May 1941. All the information about the affair was kept secret for decades and released piecemeal under pressure from historians and the public. Even the latest release 30 years after Hess's death has significant gaps. For example, the report by the Royal Military Police on its investigation, and documents about the aftermath of Hess's death have again been retained by the Foreign Office.

Hess doggedly fought for his release throughout the 40 years of imprisonment and the news of his suicide on August 17, 1987, left many suspicious. Was it the British, who as some historians claim, finally got rid of Hess to spare themselves an embarrassment of possible revelations? The jury is still out, according to the newly released documents.

Two days after Hess's death a joint statement by the four powers (Britain, France, the United States and the Soviet Union) jointly running the Spandau Prison said he had committed suicide. Now, a Foreign Office telegram reveals that the statement was written and agreed by only three of the four custodians, who then presented the Soviet side with a fait accompli.

"A press statement on the autopsy was agreed by the three allies this afternoon and subsequently put to the Russians at a [Spandau] Governors' meeting on the basis that it would in any case be released at 18.00 local time."

And the statement was in fact released despite Soviet reservations saying that Hess took his own life and died of asphyxiation.

Tying the Knot - Much has been said and written about the suicide method used by Hess — an electrical extension cable found on his neck in the summer house on the prison grounds. His son Wolf-Rudiger and lawyer Alfred Seidl claimed Hess could not have tied the knot on the cable because of arthritis — he even had difficulty tying his shoelaces.

The released documents throw up a hilarious explanation: The extension cable used had for some time been kept in the summer house, and when not in use (so that a standard lamp could be put in the position Hess likes) it was tied to the window with a knot. There was thus no need for Hess to remove it from anywhere."

How very convenient! Is it not standard prison practice to keep inmates away from anything that they could use to harm themselves? Over 40 years of confinement Hess had made several attempts on his life, and the authorities should have taken precautions commensurate with the risk of another one. A flexible lead extension is an ideal suicide tool and the very fact of it being in the cabin where the prisoner was habitually left alone, albeit only for several minutes at a time, amounts to gross negligence at least, or criminal intent at worst. The knot in the photo of the summer house, released with the papers, is an elaborate boating knot designed to hold a heavy weight. Why on earth should anyone keep an extension lead in such a peculiar fashion — in prison!

Breach of Procedures - This was an astonishing breach of all prison security procedures, which at Spandau were discussed and reviewed regularly, as exemplified by the released prison governors' minutes. But the breaches did not stop there. The Acting Soviet Governor of Spandau, the papers show, was "perturbed to discover that the SIB [Special Investigation Branch of the British Royal Military Police — NG] had already had access to the Portakabin [the summer house where Hess was found strangled — NG], saying that the Agreement [on managing Spandau — NG] laid down that the Cell Block area be immediately sealed by the US Governor [since the Americans were responsible for guarding Spandau in August — NG]"

The US Chairman Governor argued that he had the authority to allow the SIB in. However, he and the French Governor immediately offered to consult their superiors about SIB access. The British Governor confided in his bosses that "I did not volunteer the information I had earlier received from Capt Ambrose that someone, presumably the British Warder had in fact already let them into that area and they had been able to…"

Here the released document abruptly ends and the final SIB report into the circumstances of Hess's death remains under wraps to this day. As was the autopsy report, released only now.

Botched Investigation - Since Spandau was located in the British Sector of Berlin, Britain bore overall responsibility for the physical security of the prison. Yet, it appeared quite lax, as several incidents have shown. On October 23, 1986, an explosion destroyed a prison annex and shortly before Hess's death his flying suit and other personal effects were stolen from the prison. On both occasions investigations came to nothing, which caused the displeasure of the Soviet side. The Soviet governor wanted to put on official record the failure of the British to carry out a proper investigation into the theft but the Western allies only agreed to document this as his personal view. It has transpired from the released documents that at the start of the investigation by the British military government the Western allies had agreed to "ensure that the finger of guilt should not be pointed at any of the Western personnel of the Prison."

There was no attempt to investigate if there was any link between the theft and Hess's death shortly afterwards. No fingerprints were taken from the cabin where Hess died on excuse that too many people had access to it, although clearance was restricted to a known circle of prison staff. When Hess's relatives and lawyer asked to see the scene of his death, the British governor, Tony Le Tissier, told them that the "summer house had been crushed and destroyed." The murder weapon, namely the extension cord, had allegedly perished with the house. This happened according to some reports within 48 hours of Hess's death. What a novel way of conducting an investigation into a suspicious death!

Unexplained Bruise - The Western Allies agreed at the time that "…the autopsy report is not suitable for publication and that it would be preferable to avoid giving it to Wolf-Rudiger Hess [Rudolf's son — Ed.]."

The Western Allies agreed at the time that "the autopsy report is not suitable for publication and that it would be preferable to avoid giving it to Wolf-Rudiger Hess [Rudolf's son — Ed.]."

What was so unsuitable in the report that kept it from the public eye for 30 years? Maybe an unexplained bruise on Hess's head?

Again the British custodians of the prison tried to dodge the issue — and sideline their Soviet partners.

"The better course in our view would be a clear and firm statement to the press, agreed at least with the Americans and French, which drew on its conclusions and those of the SIB [Special Investigations Branch of the Royal Military Police — Ed.] The report was designed to put an end to further doubts and speculation."

But that's exactly what this approach has achieved — doubts and speculation regarding the death of Allied Prisoner No. 7.


]Biography - Timeline
_https://www.spokeo.com/Rudolf-Hess/Famous-Politician

Interesting quotes:
1935 - The Nazi regime began to persecute Jews soon after the seizure of power. Hess's office was partly responsible for drafting Hitler's Nuremberg Laws of 1935, laws that had far-reaching implications for the Jews of Germany, banning marriage between non-Jewish and Jewish Germans and depriving non-Aryans of their German citizenship.

In addition to appearing on Hitler's behalf at speaking engagements and rallies, Hess signed into law much of the legislation, including the Nuremberg Laws of 1935, which stripped the Jews of Germany of their rights in the lead-up to the Holocaust.

1945 - Hess, facing charges as a war criminal, was ordered to appear before the International Military Tribunal and was transported to Nuremberg on 10 October 1945.

(Comment - Was the suppose Hess Nuremburg trial - a symbolic jester by the elite Jew's, in mocking Hess's part in drafting up Hitler's Nuremberg Laws ten years earlier?)


Remembrances and destruction of remains
_http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Hess

The above contributed to Hess becoming a symbol for critics of the official view on National Socialist Germany and the war. Remembrances and demonstrations have been held at anniversaries of his death and in particular in Wunsiedel where Hess was buried.

In order to try to prevent remembrances and symbolism, the entire Spandau Prison has been demolished. Demonstrations have been banned. In 2011 the remains of Hess himself were exhumed, cremated, and scattered at sea. The gravestone, which bore the epitaph "Ich hab's gewagt" ("I have dared"), was destroyed.
 
Read a german article about it as well. What they brought up certainly does sound a bit suspicious like the explanations for why the cable was there in the first place. As the article states, you wouldn't expect something like this in a high security prison, unless the people who managed him, at best, behaved rather unprofessionally. This one also sounds strange:

Unexplained Bruise - The Western Allies agreed at the time that "…the autopsy report is not suitable for publication and that it would be preferable to avoid giving it to Wolf-Rudiger Hess [Rudolf's son — Ed.]."

Followed by:

"The better course in our view would be a clear and firm statement to the press, agreed at least with the Americans and French, which drew on its conclusions and those of the SIB [Special Investigations Branch of the Royal Military Police — Ed.] The report was designed to put an end to further doubts and speculation."

Also interesting that The soviets were informed after the fact about the end results.
 

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