Descriptions of the "afterlife"

Gaby

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I wonder about people who have brain diseases (like Alzheimer and such) or who suffered a severe stroke, and whose consciousness has started to recede/leave their body while the body continues to hang on. They're clearly 'not there' anymore; they even see or hear stuff that nobody can see or hear (they see people in the house, even talk to them, or try to pick up stuff on the floor that is 'not there', for ie).
Stafford Betty talks about "Terminal Lucidity" in Chapter 9. It's basically when people who have no way to speak or think due to a severe loss of brain function (i.e. advanced Alzheimer's disease) suddenly recover their cognitive abilities and say good to bye to loved ones. Shortly afterwards, they die. Apparently, due to palliative care (morphine and sedatives), these cases have become rarer, but they still happen.

Here's an excerpt:

An elderly woman never speaks, no longer recognizes her loved ones when they come to visit, and shows no expression. By the looks of her, she is a human vegetable. And she’s been this way for over a year. Her brain’s cerebral cortex and hippocampus—necessary for memory, thought, language, and normal consciousness—are severely shrunk. Her brain bears little resemblance to a healthy one.

Yet something utterly astonishing is about to happen. As reported by both the nursing staff of her care unit and her family members, “Unexpectedly, she calls her daughter and thanks her for everything. She has a phone conversation with her grandchildren, exchanges kindness and warmth. She says farewell and shortly thereafter dies.”

Similar cases have been scattered side notes in the medical literature, but recently a small body of researchers, such as Bruce Greyson, Professor of Psychiatry and Neurobehavioral Sciences at the University of Virginia, and biologist Michael Nahm in Freiburg, Germany, have begun to take a careful look at the phenomenon and agreed to call it terminal lucidity, or TL. Professor Alexander Batthyany, who teaches cognitive science at the University of Vienna, is currently running a large-scale study of the phenomenon–-the first of its kind. He is sending out detailed questionnaires to caregivers of Alzheimer’s victims, mostly nurses and medical doctors, and as the questionnaires trickle in, new mysteries arise as fast as older ones are clarified. The case cited above comes from Batthyany’s database.

Almost all brain scientists have assumed up until now that a severely damaged brain makes normal cognition impossible. But Batthyany’s preliminary results, presented at the 2014 IANDS (International Association for Near-Death Study) Annual Congress in Newport, California, suggests that normal cognition, or lucidity, does occur in spite of a severely damaged brain—not often, but in about 5-10% of Alzheimer’s cases. And only when death is very near. This has led him to wonder how terminal lucidity—which he describes as “close to a miracle, given what we know about brain function and cognition”—can occur. What is actually going on during those amazing moments? We know that there is no observable change in the brain—the cerebral cortex doesn’t suddenly grow billions of new neurons—so what accounts for TL?

Conventional brain science has no explanation. It has long assumed that as the brain goes, so goes the mind; for the brain is what gives rise to the mind, it claims. The return of mental clarity and memory in a brain ravaged by Alzheimer’s is not supposed to happen. Yet it does in some cases.
When we broaden our horizon, we discover that terminal lucidity is not unique to Alzheimer’s patients but occurs in other conditions. In 2007 Dr. Scott Haig, an assistant clinical professor of orthopedic surgery at the Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, described a case in a lung cancer patient, David, whose brain had been destroyed by the cancer following metastasis. The term “terminal lucidity” hadn’t been invented yet (it wouldn’t be until 2009), but what he described in Time Magazine fit the paradigm perfectly:

[David] stopped speaking, then moving…. The cerebral machine [the brain] that talked and wondered, winked and sang, the machine that remembered jokes and birthdays and where the big fish hid on hot days, was nearly gone, replaced by lumps of haphazardly growing gray stuff. Gone with that machine seemed David as well. No expression, no response to anything we did to him. As far as I could tell, he was just not there. But just before his death, with his family surrounding him, he became lucid. A nurse on the floor witnessed the event:

He woke up, you know, doctor—just after you left—and said goodbye to them all. Like I’m talkin’ to you right here. Like a miracle. He talked to them and patted them and smiled for about five minutes. Then he went out again, and he passed in the hour.

Dr. Haig didn’t use unscientific language like “miracle” to portray what had happened, but he didn’t back away from saying what really happened either. He described David’s mind as “uncloaked.” It had somehow loosened itself from the brain:

…it wasn’t David’s brain that woke him up to say goodbye that Friday. His brain had already been destroyed. Tumor metastases don’t simply occupy space and press on things, leaving a whole brain. The metastases actually replace tissue. Where that gray stuff grows, the brain is just not there…. What woke my patient that Friday was simply his mind, forcing its way through a broken brain, a father’s final act to comfort his family.

If consciousness, or the “mind,” is separated from the brain at death, then the mind is free to go its own way. The dead brain has no claim on it.
Some of the most striking cases of terminal lucidity take us back to the 19th and early 20th centuries, when, surprisingly, there was far more readiness to investigate the phenomenon than in the later 20th. No one has delved into these old cases more thoroughly than Dr. Nahm. Not only did he invent the term “terminal lucidity”; his lengthy historical survey of TL written for The Journal of Near-Death Studies is, at present, the gold standard for anyone interested in TL. His analysis of its causes are even more important. (As of this writing, TL is such a new field that no one has yet written a book devoted exclusively to it.)

Here is a typical case, from 1921. A man had been housed in an insane asylum (the term used for a mental hospital in earlier times) for many years. One day the man’s brother got a telegram from the asylum’s director, saying that his brother wanted to speak to him.

He immediately visited his brother and was astonished to find him in a perfectly normal mental state. On leaving again, the director of the asylum decently informed the visitor that his brother’s mental clarity is an almost certain sign of his approaching death. Indeed, the patient died within a short time. Subsequently, an autopsy of the brain was performed, to which [the brother] was allowed to attend. It revealed that the brain was entirely suppurated and that this condition must have been present for a long time.

The author of the article asks: ‘‘With what, then, did this brainsick person think intelligibly again during the last days of his life?’’
The most extraordinary early case of terminal lucidity comes from Friedrich Happich, the director of a German asylum from 1913 up to the mid-1930s. Peter Ringger summarizes the event:

One of the most disabled patients of Happich’s asylum was Käthe. From birth on, she was seriously retarded and never learned to speak a single word. She could only utter animal-like voices; her bodily abilities did not exceed uncontrolled spasms. It never seemed that she took notice of what was happening around her even for a second. One day, Happich was called to immediately visit Käthe by a physician and psychiatrist of the asylum, Dr. Wittweber. Käthe was ill with tuberculosis and she was about to die. When entering the room, Happich was stunned. He continues: ‘‘We did not believe our eyes and ears. Käthe, who never spoke one word, entirely mentally disabled from birth on, sang the dying songs to herself. Specifically, she sang ‘Where does the soul find its home, its peace? Peace, peace, heavenly peace!’ over and over again. For half an hour she sang. Then, she quietly died. Her face, up to then so stultified, was transfigured and spiritualized. Like myself and the present nurse, the physician had tears in his eyes. He stated repeatedly: ‘I cannot explain this in medical terms. If demanded, I can prove by autopsy that … from an anatomical perspective, thinking could not have been possible.’’’

Nahm is especially impressed by this case, for “there was no return of previously available faculties but, rather, the emergence of a qualitatively new bodily skill, namely speaking. To my knowledge, no materialistic theory of psychology or neurology to date could account convincingly” for such a case: “brain physiology is of only minor importance.”
 

Joe

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I gotta wonder though - the C's talked about long wave cycles and short wave cycles, the former being what discarnates experience, and the latter experienced by incarnation as accelerated learning. But in principle, it seems like you can go either route and still ultimately learn everything you need, if I understood them correctly. So a human could go to 5D and have no access/understanding of 4D for a while, then eventually move up in those "spheres" so often described, and eventually reach a level where 4D is understandable.
Possible, but I doubt it based on the information we have about 5D. It's basically a 'rest and recovery' place, there doesn't seem to be an option for any kind of struggle or 'learning the hard way' and possibly even no real understanding of STS vs STO. The only way to learn that (perhaps) is via some kind of incarnation in matter. As the Cs have said, STS 'worships' the material universe, that's where they 'play' so to speak, anyone who wants to get to grips with STS has to do it in the material universe. If you gain that understanding, the it's available to you in 5D, but I would suspect that anyone who gains enough understanding of it and makes a choice - 'polarizes' so to speak - to at least 51% STO would not be interested in hanging around too long in 5D 'rest and recovery' land because they would understand that there's work to be done and doing stuff and learning is....fun!
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I'm wondering if that has ever been asked in a session: if 4D 'recycles' through 5D...
Yes there is a very interesting session for that discussion but it has very vast implications that cover a broad range of changes.

Session 4 November 1995:
Q: (L) Bases are transdensity. (T) So the bases are transdensity, in other words they exist throughout the densities in the same location. No, no, that won't be right... (L) they exist in a trans-density state. (T) So they exist in third...

A: Yes.

Q: (T) They exist in third, fourth, whatever...all at the same time. (L) Maybe they could come in to our density when necessary and then go out of our density when necessary.

A: No.

Q: (L) They are in another density.

A: No.

Q: (L) They are in another dimension. (T) They are in all densities...

A: Trans.

Q: (L) They transit at all densities?

A: Start at three.

Q: (L) They start at three... (T) They go through four, five is not the density they can go into, so they go through six...

A: Assume.

Q: (L) Assume; you're assuming... (T) No, I'm asking, they start at three, you say; where do they go from there?

A: To five.

Q: (L) Three to five. (T) They cover three, four and five?

A: Yes.

Q: (T) Why do they cover five? You've said that five is the level of contemplation... (L) Why not? That makes sense, to have one there, too.

A: Yes.


Q: (L) They can take them through there. They work there. (T) Well, I need to understand this, they've said different things about the fifth density, in different sessions. OK,

A: No.

Q: (L) I'll tell you, hold on. One of the things that came through: it was the session when I was asking questions about [my son's] experiences under hypnosis, so it was back fairly early on. And I asked a series of questions about what he perceived. Now, he had an alien abduction experience that he described in another lifetime, seemingly. He described what amounted to having this screen thing put over his face, and the red dots, and the programming and the beings in the silver robes standing around, and then being shunted through this tunnel, and finding himself in this dark space where there were all these black-hole things all around him. I asked, was this an alien abduction in another lifetime and they said no, it was a fifth density life review. I said, are some of these beings we perceive as aliens, and some of these experiences we perceive as alien abductions, actually events or experiences on fifth density? And they said yes.

(J) Life review... that's real important.

(L) Right. So what they're saying is, and when they're talking about taking souls on the battlefield, and so forth, obviously we have fifth density "alien" and they've said that the term is used loosely. I mean, we might perceive them as alien, but they were fifth density workers, so to speak. That was their job, to do whatever it was they did, or they perceived it as their job. So that, to have these bases transit the densities up through fifth, would make perfect sense because of the kind of work they're doing. Is that...

A: There is so much extremely vital stuff about this subject, that it would be wise to stay with it until completion.

Q: (T) We plan on staying with it, we're trying to understand this...

(L) You remember when my brother was here, they kept wanting us to come back to the subject of the bases. And we didn't, we wandered off.

(T) Our problem is, we wander a lot of the time. We're worse than Carl Sagan as a group here. We wander off on tangent ideas, and go from one thing to the next. We never stay on a subject. OK, the bases are trans-density bases; they go from the third density to the fifth; they exist in the third, fourth and fifth density all at the same time, is this correct so far?

A: Close.

Q: (T) Now, when a being, a soul, whatever, is in the base, do they exist in all three densities at the same time?

A: No.

Q: (L) Hold on, I've got an idea...

A: When you are in a skyscraper, do you exist on all floors at the same time?

Q: (J) No, but you have got to know where the elevator is! (L) Is there something like an elevator that can move you, if you're in these locations, from one density to another, and experience these bases, these trans-density bases, at different levels?

A: It is an elevator!

Q: (L) OK, so these bases are points... it IS an elevator, so these bases may be places that if you are taken to them, are in them, that through these portals, or trans-density bases, you are thereby able to transit the densities?

A: You are able anyway.

Q: (L) OK, but are these specific locations... OK, it is an elevator... (T) Well, not an elevator as we perceive an elevator... (J) Conceptually, yes. It's a conveyance, it's a method.

A: No.

Q: (T) No, that it isn't an elevator as we perceive it? (L) Is it an elevator for...

A: Literally.

Q: (L) It is literally an elevator?

A: Yes.


Q: (L) So you go there to get on to go to different densities?

A: Yes.

Q: (T) So, it is that easy?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) So you go to these bases, to go to different densities...

A: Although, it is possible to enter 4th and 5th in other ways too!
Can't go through 5D but can go there if I understand correctly.
 

John G

The Living Force
I'm wondering if that has ever been asked in a session: if 4D 'recycles' through 5D...
From the 6/22/96 session:

Q: (L) Tonight, I would like to ask about 5th density. How does the "dividing line" between the 4 physical densities and 5th function?

A: Recycling zone, one must have direct contact in perfect balance with those on 6th density in order to fulfill the need for contemplation/ learning phase while in between incarnations of 1st through 4th densities.

Q: (L) When a person finishes all their experiences on 1st through 4th density, do they then remain at 5th for a period before to moving to 6th.

A: Yes.

Q: (L) When you die in 3rd and go to 5th, do you pass through or see 4th?

A: No.

Q: (L) When you are in 5th density, is part of your service to be a guide? Are there two kinds of beings on 5th: those who are there for the recycling, and those whose level it simply IS?

A: No. All are as one in timeless understanding of all there is.

Q: (L) If, at 5th density a person has timeless understanding, what is it about them that determines that they will "recycle" as opposed to moving to 6th from 5th?

A: Contemplation reveals needed destiny.

Q: (L) So, being united with other beings on 5th, you come to some sort of understanding about your lessons....

A: Balanced. And this, my dear, is another example of gravity as the binder of all creation... "The Great Equalizer!"

Q: (L) In this picture in my mind, the cycle moves out, in dispersion, begins to accrete and return to the source. Is this correct?

A: Close.

Q: (L) Is it, in fact, that exactly half of all that exists, is moving into imbalance, while the other half is moving into balance?

A: Close.

Q: (L) All the cosmos? All that exists?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Is it possible that one area of the cosmos has more of the balance seeking energy while another has more of that which is seeking imbalance?

A: Oh yes!

Q: (L) Is the Earth one of those areas that is more imbalanced than balanced at the present time?

A: Yes, but rapidly moving back toward balance.

Q: (L) Is the Realm Border part of this balancing?

A: Yes.
For 4D STS it would probably be a black sun soul smashing back to 1D eventually; 3D STS has a possible lake of fire soul smashing back to 1D too.
 

goyacobol

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For 4D STS it would probably be a black sun soul smashing back to 1D eventually; 3D STS has a possible lake of fire soul smashing back to 1D too.
I am not sure 3D STS would be ready for complete annihilation without going to 4D and perfecting their STS natures.

This session mainly is talking about 3rd going to 5th.
One interesting comment by the Cs was "one must have direct contact in perfect balance with those on 6th density".
So the only application for 4D in 5D was to be "in balance with 6th density by direct contact.

Session 22 June 1996:
Q: (L) Tonight, I would like to ask about 5th density. How does the "dividing line" between the 4 physical densities and 5th function?

A: Recycling zone, one must have direct contact in perfect balance with those on 6th density in order to fulfill the need for contemplation/ learning phase while in between incarnations of 1st through 4th densities.

Q: (L) When a person finishes all their experiences on 1st through 4th density, do they then remain at 5th for a period before to moving to 6th.

A: Yes.

Q: (L) When you die in 3rd and go to 5th, do you pass through or see 4th?

A: No.
The only problem for 4D going to 6D from 5D for balancing is that STS is only 6D in the form of "reflection" for balancing.

Session 7 January 1995:
Q: (T) The 4th level is the last for full STS. Does that mean that the 5th level, which you have described as the "contemmplative" level... what is the state of existence of a STS being on the 5th level?

A: Souls of 1,2,3, and 4 go to 5th.

Q: (T) So 5th level is where they go to while waiting to go back to one of the 4 for their next incarnation?

A: Exactly.

Q: (T) That is why it's called the contemplation level. You go and think about what you have done. (T) What about souls on 6th density? (L) Are there 6th density STS beings?

A: No, when you get to 6th you no longer need to recycle.

Q: (L) But still, is there an STS experience at 6th density, like the 6th density Orions?

A: These are only reflections of individuals, not unified entities. These reflections exist for balance. They are not whole entities, just thought forms.


Q: (L) Are these 6th density beings what the Bible describes as a "gathering" of angels as in the story of Job where "Lucifer" came in before the Lord...

A: Yes.

Q: (L) So, there are STS and STO at 6th density which balance? And they are just there, they exist?

A: Reflection for balance.


Q: (L) Is there any kind of hierarchy to this thing? Do these beings come before some kind of "Grand Council" and make plans and discuss things, and make decisions and implement them?

A: No.

Q: (L) Well, how do things happen? Do things just sort of happen as a natural interaction of things and energies?

A: Yes.
 

Approaching Infinity

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I'm wondering if that has ever been asked in a session: if 4D 'recycles' through 5D...
In the Ra sessions too they talk about 4D incarnations (keeping in mind Ra didn't describe 5D as the Cs did, as a contemplation zone between incarnations):
43.9 Questioner: In the next density, or the… in the fourth density, is the catalyst of physical pain used as a mechanism for experiential balancing?

Ra: I am Ra. The use of physical pain is minimal, having only to do with the end of the fourth-density incarnation. This physical pain would not be considered severe enough to treat, shall we say, in third density. The catalysts of mental and spiritual pain are used in fourth density.

43.10 Questioner: Why is physical pain a part of the end of fourth density?

Ra: I am Ra. You would call this variety of pain weariness.

43.11 Questioner: What is the… can you even state the average lifespan in the fourth density of space/time incarnation?

Ra: I am Ra. The space/time incarnation typical of harmonious fourth density is approximately 90,000 of your years as you measure time.

43.12 Questioner: Then, is there a time/space— Are there multiple incarnations in fourth density with time/space experiences between incarnations?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

43.13 Questioner: How long is a cycle of experience in fourth density in our years?

Ra: The cycle of experience is approximately 30 million of your years if the entities are not capable of being harvested sooner. There is in this density a harvest which is completely the function of the readiness of the social memory complex. It is not structured as is your own, for it deals with a more transparent distortion of the One Infinite Creator.
 

John G

The Living Force
I am not sure 3D STS would be ready for complete annihilation without going to 4D and perfecting their STS natures.
From the 9/13/09 session:

Q: ... (DD) What happens to a soul after it is smashed?

A: Primal matter. Start the cycle over. Millions or billions of years acquiring consciousness.

Q: (DD) So you start out as like a hydrogen atom or something. (Joe) You become a rock. (PL) Is there a link between a “smashing year” that was announced by the Cs early this year? It was mentioned, and now we're talking about soul smashing... (L) Well, it's kind of interesting because this insight that I had about soul-smashing, when I woke up that particular morning is that that is what they are trying to do: they actually think that they can smash souls and turn them into primal matter. And it was such a shocking thought to me, and just now I'm realizing that this insight came through in the year they called a "smashing year". This insight kind of came smashing through into my consciousness - to even think of that; that's almost unthinkable. (PL) If they smash the soul of human beings, then aren't they losing because we are their cattle? So it's more like that... (Joe) The whole thing starts again...

A: It isn't going to happen to all.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I don't usually just quote without more context but maybe others can see if anything fits together.

9/13/09 session said:
What happens to a soul after it is smashed?

A: Primal matter. Start the cycle over. Millions or billions of years acquiring consciousness.
A: Souls are not "born" into this planet. Souls were never born! And, will never die!
Could you explain the process of the soul?

A: Soul is consciousness, period.
Maybe freewill allows for choosing to go unconscious and start over?
 
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ScioAgapeOmnis

The Living Force
Good points! I forgot STS can't do a non-physical existence beyond 4D, so it would seem like incarnation is important to interact with and experience/understand STS and to possibly choose that path if one was so inclined. Also they did say "no" when asked if 5D is a permanent residence for anyone beyond being a recycling/contemplation zone. Although it does appear one can spend a lot of time between incarnations in this zone, even though there is no "time" there. It makes sense, a human lifetime could have a lot to unpack and go through, then reflect on, discuss with 6D, or over tea with your 5D mates, etc.

But it would seem that 5D has many areas to accommodate different levels and polarities. I wonder if 4D STS have that link to 6D "guides" somehow too, if that's important? Maybe they can interact with those STS reflections somehow? It seems they would probably dislike being between incarnations, having no physicality. On the other hand, "Life Beyond the Veil" did describe demonic lords, and a bunch of slaves, etc. Even without physicality it seems like the power of the mind is strong. I mean even on Earth most people aren't controlled with physical coercion, but mental games and lies and tricks.

Another interesting thing are references to 5D technology. Somehow they seem to have tools, buildings, and technological contraptions. I think the way they are constructed is different as it seems it's mental rather than cranes and hammers, but I never imagined that 5D would have or need any technology. I wonder how that works? Maybe beyond a certain level you don't need such "tools", but they serve as a supplement for those who can't yet do whatever those tools do with their mind more directly?
 

luc

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If you gain that understanding, the it's available to you in 5D, but I would suspect that anyone who gains enough understanding of it and makes a choice - 'polarizes' so to speak - to at least 51% STO would not be interested in hanging around too long in 5D 'rest and recovery' land because they would understand that there's work to be done and doing stuff and learning is....fun!
Yeah, I kind of always suspected that 4D STO is not a "land of milk and honey", but a place where you are facing different challenges than here in 3D land, and perhaps in many ways it's even harder, just in different ways.

Similarly, I would suspect that STO-polarized individuals in 5D would be inclined to make hard choices, such as reincarnating on a hell-hole planet because they know they could learn many things there, and/or possibly be of service there, even if they risk soul-smashing. Perhaps it's possible to learn and advance even at 5D, but STO leans towards 'voluntary suffering', finding the best way to be of service regardless of egoistic motives and perfecting one's ability to do so. If higher realms are the best environment for that in a particular case, great, but if this means doing another round here on Earth, then that's what it is!

Reading this thread, I had 2 more thoughts about the Wave/end of a cycle/harvest that's happening right now: it's a huge privilege and opportunity being alive at this point in time. Perhaps it never comes back, who knows? So better make the best use of it as we can, every day!

Also, didn't the Cs mention somewhere that the transition to 4D can and often does go via 5D? From this thread, I gather the transition to 5D is not necessarily this violent and painful event, but something rather smooth and natural you shouldn't be too afraid of. So maybe it's not that we are magically transformed into 4D light beings or whatever if we got our act together at the end of this cycle; rather, we simply go over to 5D and after some hard thinking and consulting with those wiser than us, go on to incarnate on a suitable 4D planet? But if we're not STO-polarized enough at that point, we could end up somewhere else - perhaps a slightly more STOish 3D experience, perhaps another round on earth, perhaps a long existence on some hellish 5D territory until we come to our senses, perhaps some soul-smashing stuff if we really screwed up and got sucked into the abyss... Endless possibilities I guess.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
On the other hand, "Life Beyond the Veil" did describe demonic lords, and a bunch of slaves, etc. Even without physicality it seems like the power of the mind is strong. I mean even on Earth most people aren't controlled with physical coercion, but mental games and lies and tricks.
SAO,

I think that is something that should be considered when thinking about 5D. I don't think is all "love and Light" as the following remarks would seem to indicate.

Session 28 December 1996:
Q: (L) Why do I not want to channel other entities... that was a strong response that just sort of jumped out... is it correct?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Why?

A: It would be like trudging through the saw palmetto bush thickets, at night, barefoot!

Q: (L) Well, that is a good way to step on a rattlesnake!

A: Maybe.

Yeah, I kind of always suspected that 4D STO is not a "land of milk and honey", but a place where you are facing different challenges than here in 3D land, and perhaps in many ways it's even harder, just in different ways.
I think 4D is not all a rose garden either considering the following:

A: Terry did not give exactly correct answer. It is possible to cross over into fourth density from third, using third density technology. In fact, this has already been accomplished by various individuals and groups on a more or less accidental basis, the problem is "what does one do when one reaches fourth density reality with only third density training and experience?"

Q: (L) Could you, if we spent the time, help us with this training and technology?

A: Yes, but what do you intend to use it for? This is not like going to Disney World for a day, you know!

Also, didn't the Cs mention somewhere that the transition to 4D can and often does go via 5D? From this thread, I gather the transition to 5D is not necessarily this violent and painful event, but something rather smooth and natural you shouldn't be too afraid of.
I think some will go directly to 4D and others possibly via 5D but it does not have to be seen as a "disaster":

A: Whoa! Wait a minute, Arkadiusz! All is according to perspective! Let us not be subjective. If one transits to 4th density in the midst of said "disaster," then how disastrous is this!?! And, how does one suppose to know the "schedule," when it is up in the air, so to speak?

Q: (A) So, it is not going to be a disaster for some - those who transit to 4th density. I understand.

A: And for those who transit to 5th density, it will not be so bad either. Sort of like, "sit back and enjoy the show."


Q: (L) Well, you once told me to 'sit back and enjoy the show.' Does that mean I am going to 5th density soon?

A: Soon? Later? What is the difference? You were prescreeened before entrance into your present container.

Q: (A) What do you mean by 'prescreened?'

A: You saw a preview, and you volunteered.

Q: Well, I was under the impression from things you have said that we have some sort of mission here...

A: Yes, and...

Q: (L) Does that mean checking into 5th density in the middle of all this?

A: You think the job ends there?
 

strategic enclosure

Padawan Learner
I don't usually just quote without more context but maybe others can see if anything fits together.







Maybe freewill allows for choosing to go unconscious and start over?
If I am interpreting this right then consciousness/soul manifests as a natural part of the process of evolution. If a soul is smashed into a primal state then after this long period of evolution it becomes an individuated soul. That is why souls are not born, they develop naturally as part of the essential process of reality,
 

strategic enclosure

Padawan Learner
Yeah, I kind of always suspected that 4D STO is not a "land of milk and honey", but a place where you are facing different challenges than here in 3D land, and perhaps in many ways it's even harder, just in different ways.

Similarly, I would suspect that STO-polarized individuals in 5D would be inclined to make hard choices, such as reincarnating on a hell-hole planet because they know they could learn many things there, and/or possibly be of service there, even if they risk soul-smashing. Perhaps it's possible to learn and advance even at 5D, but STO leans towards 'voluntary suffering', finding the best way to be of service regardless of egoistic motives and perfecting one's ability to do so. If higher realms are the best environment for that in a particular case, great, but if this means doing another round here on Earth, then that's what it is!

Reading this thread, I had 2 more thoughts about the Wave/end of a cycle/harvest that's happening right now: it's a huge privilege and opportunity being alive at this point in time. Perhaps it never comes back, who knows? So better make the best use of it as we can, every day!

Also, didn't the Cs mention somewhere that the transition to 4D can and often does go via 5D? From this thread, I gather the transition to 5D is not necessarily this violent and painful event, but something rather smooth and natural you shouldn't be too afraid of. So maybe it's not that we are magically transformed into 4D light beings or whatever if we got our act together at the end of this cycle; rather, we simply go over to 5D and after some hard thinking and consulting with those wiser than us, go on to incarnate on a suitable 4D planet? But if we're not STO-polarized enough at that point, we could end up somewhere else - perhaps a slightly more STOish 3D experience, perhaps another round on earth, perhaps a long existence on some hellish 5D territory until we come to our senses, perhaps some soul-smashing stuff if we really screwed up and got sucked into the abyss... Endless possibilities I guess.
I especially like your second paragraph here. The phrase "voluntary suffering" encapsulates it beautifully, I think.

Reading the last few contributions to this thread and thus re-reading snippets of the C's session transcripts, it has really struck me how fundamentally futile an STS approach is. 4D is the last stage of natural evolution that STS can ever possibly reach. After that STS only exists conceptually in order for balance in the divine order of things. So what's the point? With an STS approach to existence, one is ultimately never actually going to get anywhere. As I understand it, growth and expansion and becoming more than we already are is hardcoded into this funny old life business that we are all going through, whether at 3D or 4D or wherever. STS seems to be an attempt to not accept this as reality and resist it at a fundamental level. Like seeing something distressing and completely refusing to accept it. STS feels like an attempt to curl up into a ball and shut out the outer, harsh reality of existence. So a degeneration into nothingness, a soul smashed into primal nothingness would be an enviable goal. That's one way of getting away from this life business! I am currently reading the book Joe referenced in the OP. Whilst reading that it has struck me that there is a definite underlying order and structure to everything. The 'rules of the game' as it were. Thus STO and STS seem to be diametrically opposed reactions to that fundamental reality. STO accepts the reality and works with it, STS throws its toys out of the plan and refuses to play by the rules. However, it is a futile effort by STS as this is the only game in town and there is no cheat code to alter the terms of the divine plan. Don't like how everything is set up STS? Tough luck STS, this is how it all works. Deal with it. STS: "I don't wanna! Waaaaaaa!!!!!"

I like to think of STO/STS as the yin yang symbol. Yang is the expansive force [STO] and yin is the contractile force [STS]. I once read that yin yang are best conceptualised as the opposite ends of a magnet. This expresses their function in the divine order of things and avoids the typical masculine/female labels that obscure the real meaning because those words have too many connotations. Also, the C's have said that gravity is the key to everything and IIRC it is a form of magnetism so perhaps the Yin Yang concept symbolically encapsulates the interplay of the force that makes this whole divine order of things work.

I am sorry if the above is incoherent. I am finding my words as I am thinking through this and am reminded of what Dr Peterson says about this. That is, how compelled speech is fundamentally authoritarian as it inhibits our ability to think.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
If a soul is smashed into a primal state then after this long period of evolution it becomes an individuated soul.
I would say no it has to "Start the cycle over" building consciousness from ground zero.

A: Primal matter. Start the cycle over. Millions or billions of years acquiring consciousness.
It doesn't sound like any "soul" is left to me.

A: Soul is consciousness, period.
Becoming that "individuated soul" takes who knows how long.
 
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