Does 5-HTP+Antidepressants = Seretonin Poisoning?

Lakewolf

Padawan Learner
**revised from an article written in 1999 and published in a Nevada FM [fibromylagia] support newsletter

...[W]hat about the safety of dietary supplements today? One concern of many ...in the medical community is that patients are taking diverse supplements, combining them with prescription medications, and often are not informing any of their doctors about the supplements they use. Some supplements, such as 5-HTP, melatonin, and St. John’s Wort (and maybe others) can interact with antidepressants or other drugs designed to boost serotonin. It's possible to get too much serotonin.

http:///eosinophilia-myalgiaswiftsite.com/emstragicnoveldisease.htm
 
Selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors (SSRIs), such as Zoloft (sertraline), Paxil (paroxetine HCl), Celexa (citalopram), Prozac (fuoxetine), and Luvox (fuvoxamine), work by increasing the brain’s use of serotonin. Serotonin deficiency is linked to anxiety, depression, lowered pain tolerance, poor sleep, and mental fatigue among others.Other antidepressants also work at the serotonin level.

SSRIs can help a patient to recycle their naturally occurring stores of serotonin, but if you don’t have any serotonin to recycle, then using a serotonin re-uptake inhibitor drug is pointless. That is partly the reason why it is better to supplement with 5 HTP instead of an anti-depressant (not to mention that antidepressants have frightening side effects).

People can take 5-HTP or any amino acid along with antidepressant medications because it is a natural brain chemical. Once people start filling their brain up with serotonin by taking 5-HTP, the prescription SSRI medications then actually have something to work with!

5-HTP is not particularly advised for people with manic depression or schizophrenia though, a consultation with a specialist in orthomolecular psychiatry is advised.

Serotonin sensitivity reactions are extremely rare and can be avoided by starting with the 5 HTP at low dose and increasing accordingly (up to 300mg-400mg per day). In any case, people have to work with their doctors to wean off from their anti depressants once they start natural remedies, it can take even several months to do it safely. For more information see: Treating and Beating Anxiety and Depression with Orthomolecular Medicine by Dr. Rodger H. Murphree:

http://store.drmurphreestore.com/trandbeanand.html
 
http:///eosinophilia-myalgiaswiftsite.com/emstragicnoveldisease.htm

I would like to add more info on the syndrome described in the above link.

L-tryptophan is a natural amino acid which is totally safe. It was banned from the market because Showa Denko—a Japanese company- supplied most of the tryptophan in the United States and there was a batch that was polluted, causing the syndrome described above: eosinophilia myalgia syndrome (EMS)

Some people who took the polluted L-tryptophan experienced severe muscle and joint pains, fevers, swellings, weakness and they had high levels of eosinophils in their white blood count. Eosinophils are high when the body is fighting a parasitic infection or when there is an allergic reaction.

So, the EMS epidemic was traced to batches of L-tryptophan that were produced between 1988 and 1989 by Showa Denko, which made L-tryptophan by a process that involved fermentation using a type of bacteria. The problem was not L-tryptophan per se, instead researchers discovered that L-trytophan has become contaminated due to changes the company had made in its fermentation and filtering processes.

Then, the FDA decided to ban all tryptophan supplements, even though tryptophan (as a source of 5HTP - serotonin) has proved to be a natural and effective treatment for depression and insomnia, without the side effects of antidepressants. And L-tryptophan continues to be widely used treatment in Italy, Spain, France, Germany, etc. There are strict guidelines to ensure its purity and safety and no cases of EMS have ever been traced to use of uncontaminated L-tryptophan.

But what happened with L-tryptophan might be a blessing in disguise, as the use of 5 HTP as a source of serotonin proved to be more beneficial in the end. Dr. Michael Murray talks about this in his book "Boost your serotonin levels, 5 HTP, the natural way to overcome depression, obesity, and insomnia". Still, it is not surprising that tryptophan was banned shortly before Prozac and other antidepressants hit the market.

Perhaps the following links from Seeds of Deception might shed some light as to what happened with the contaminated tryptophan:

Toxic L-tryptophan: Shedding Light on a Mysterious Epidemic
_http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/L-tryptophan/index.cfm

Introduction: Was Genetic Engineering the Cause of Contaminated L-tryptophan and the EMS Epidemic?
_http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/L-tryptophan/1Introduction/index.cfm

Background Information: The EMS Epidemic, Initial Research Studies and News of Biotech Link
_http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/L-tryptophan/2BackgroundInformation/index.cfm

Where Did the Contaminants Come From?
_http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/L-tryptophan/4WhereDidtheContaminantsComeFrom/index.cfm

Problems with Identifying and Testing for Trace Contaminants
_http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/L-tryptophan/5ProblemswithIdentificationTesting/index.cfm

Conclusion: Who’s Responsible?
_http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/L-tryptophan/8ConclusionWhosResponsible/index.cfm

Another interesting article:

_http://www.lef.org/fda/fdaban95.html

The FDA Ban of L-Tryptophan: Politics, Profits and Prozac
© All Rights Reserved

Posted on LEF April 6 1998

By: Dean Wolfe Manders, Ph.D.

This article first appeared in "Social Policy", Vol. 26, No. 2 Winter 1995. Dr. Manders has lectured and done extensive research on the medical politics of L-Tryptophan. The article also appeared in "Blazing Tattles" June 1996.

In the fall of 1989, the FDA recalled L-Tryptophan, an amino acid nutritional supplement, stating that it caused a rare and deadly flu-like condition (Eosinophilia-Myalgia Syndrome / EMS). On March 22, 1990, the FDA banned the public sale dietary of L-Tryptophan completely. This ban continues today. On March 26, 1990, "Newsweek" featured a lead article praising the virtues of the anti-depressant drug Prozac. Its multi-color cover displayed a floating, gigantic green and white capsule of Prozac with the caption: "Prozac: A Breakthrough drug for Depression."

The fact that the FDA ban of L-Tryptophan and the Newsweek Prozac cover story occurred within four days of each other went unnoticed by both the media and the public. Yet, to those who understand the effective properties of L- Tryptophan and Prozac, the concurrence seems "unbelievably coincidental." The link here is the brain neurotransmitter serotonin---a biochemical nerve signal conductor. The action of Prozac and L-Tryptophan are both involved with serotonin, but in totally different ways.

Elevated levels of serotonin in the body often result in the relief of depression, as well as substantial reduction in pain sensitivity, anxiety and stress. Prozac, as well as other new anti-depressant drugs such as Paxil and Zoloft, attempt to enhance levels of serotonin by working on whatever amounts of it already exists in the body (these drugs are known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors). None of these drugs, however produce serotonin. In contrast, ingested L-Tryptophan acts to produce serotonin, even in individuals who generate little serotonin of their own. The most effective way to elevate serotonin would be to use a serotonin producer rather than a serotonin enhancer.

The continuing FDA public ban of L-Tryptophan prevents popular access to this most effective serotonin producer. The millions of Americans who for decades safely have relied upon L-Tryptophan to relieve depression, anxiety and PMS, as well as to control pain and induce natural sleep, have been forced elsewhere for solutions.

Routinely, such solutions are pharmaceutical in nature: people are forced to use either often highly addictive, expensive, and sometimes dangerous drugs like Xanax, Valium, Halcion, Dalmane, Codeine, Anafranil, Prozac, and others, or simply suffer. Present FDA public policy maintains that L-Tryptophan is an untested, unapproved and hazardous drug. The analytical work done a few years ago by the Centers for Disease Control and the Mayo Clinic, research which traced the fall of the serious flu-like condition to contaminants found in batches of L-Tryptophan made by the Japanese company Showa Denko, has not convinced the FDA to allow L-Tryptophan back on the market. This decision is based primarily on the research of FDA and NIMH scientists who state that L- Tryptophan itself, irrespective of contaminants, is a dangerous substance. Other university-based research scientists disagree with these findings.

The public availability of L-Tryptophan is too important an issue only to be argued and shrouded within scientific debate that remains, ultimately, mystifying to the vast majority of Americans. There are many obvious facts worthy of public attention, and concern.

For example, consider the following: On February 9, 1993, a United States government patent (#5185157) was issued to use L-Tryptophan to treat, and cure EMS, the very same deadly flu-like condition which prompted the FDA to take L-Tryptophan off the market in 1989.

Notwithstanding its public ban and import alert on L-Tryptophan, the FDA today allows Ajinomoto U.S.A. the right to import from Japan human-use L- Tryptophan. Distributed from the Ajinomoto in Raleigh, North Carolina, the L- Tryptophan is then sold to, and through, a network of compounding pharmacies across the United States. Purchased by individuals only under a physician's order, L-Tryptophan emerges here as a new prescription drug in the serotonin marketplace; one hundred 500 mg. capsules cost about $75.00, approximately five times more than if they were sold as a dietary supplement.

Since the FDA holds the political mandate and power of a public regulatory agency established ostensibly, to protect people from raw corporate interests in drug production and distribution, the actions of the FDA in concert with Ajinomoto U.S.A. are illuminating. By publicly banning L-Tryptophan from its dietary supplement status and price, while allowing L-Tryptophan to be sold as a high-priced prescription drug, the naked duplicity of the FDA L-Tryptophan policy is revealed.

During and after the 1989 EMS outbreak, the FDA did not totally ban the use of L- Tryptophan in humans---then, as today, the FDA has granted the pharmaceutical industry the protected right to use L-Tryptophan in hospital settings. Manufactured by Abbott Laboratories, the amino acid injectable solutions Aminosyn and Aminosyn II contain as much as 200 mg. of L-Tryptophan. (Moreover, L-Tryptophan has never been removed from baby food produced and sold within the United States.) While the FDA has banned the public sale and use of safe, non-contaminated, dietary supplements L-Tryptophan for people, the United States Department of Agriculture still sanctions the legal sale and use of non-contaminated L-Tryptophan for animals. Today, as in the past, feed grade L-Tryptophan continues to be used as a nutritional and bulk feed additive by the commercial hog and chicken farming industry. Additionally, L- Tryptophan is now available for use by veterinarians in caring for horses and pets.

Outside of the United States, in countries such as Canada, the Netherlands, Germany, England, and others, L-Tryptophan is widely used. Nowhere, have any serious or widespread health problems have occurred.

At bottom, the FDA public ban of safe, non-contaminated L-Tryptophan is uneven, expensive, and biased in favor of the pharmaceutical industry. The FDA proscription effectively awards billions of dollars in profits to pharmaceutical companies and their suppliers in the same proportion as it adds billions of unnecessary dollars to the nation's already bloated health care expenditures.

On June 15, 1993, the FDA Dietary Supplement Task Force published a report on the work it had been doing in the area of developing FDA policy around nutritional supplements. On page two, the report admits, "The Task Force considered various issues in its deliberations, including ... what steps are necessary to ensure that the existence of dietary supplements on the market does not act as a disincentive for drug development."

In this case, the FDA has succeeded in carrying out its stated policy goal. With competition from publicly available L-Tryptophan removed, the rapidly expanding market in prescription serotonin drugs---now among them L-Tryptophan itself---contains no major "disincentives" for the massive accumulation of pharmaceutical industry profits.

It is now time for appropriate congressional committees to review openly and aggressively the entire matter of L-Tryptophan. This will provide a needed forum where political, corporate, and scientific issues of the FDA L- Tryptophan regulatory policy may be addressed. There exists ample precedent for such hearings: in the 1980's and early 1990's, for example, such investigations uncovered favoritism in the approval of generic drugs and the bribery of FDA officials.

The story of L-Tryptophan illustrates a sad perverse picture of the politics and priorities of public health in America: A safe, dietary-supplement serotonin producer is publicly unavailable to people, while daily fed to animals by corporate agribusiness. A patent is approved to use L-Tryptophan to cure the very condition the FDA claims it caused. And, while publicly exclaiming that L-Tryptophan is a dangerous and untested drug, the FDA more quietly, allows human-use L-Tryptophan to be imported, and then marketed and sold by the pharmaceutical industry.

To allow the FDA ban of L-Tryptophan to continue unreviewed and univestigated condemns millions of Americans to unnecessary financial expenditures and needless suffering.

Are you Dean Manders,or do you have his email address or know anyone who does? I have a ton of info on this subject. The patent he is discussing on L-tryptophan for the cure of eosinophilia myalgia syndrome is held by Dr.Christopher Caston of Spartenburg S.C. and info about his patent was published in two peer reviewed medical journals at the exact same time the FDA banned l-tryptophan. I have a transcript of the entire FDA run hearing on Dietary Supplements which took place in the Masur Auditorium of NIH on August 29th 1990 in which the FDA was shamelessly parading eosinophilia myalgia victims up to the microphone for propaganda purposes, in order to have them denounce the dietary supplement industry over the Showa Denko contaminated tryptophan.

(Showa Denko is a PHARMACEUTICAL company, and a really bad actor at that- they once BLEW UP part of their plant to thwart a Japanese government inspection which would have proved that they were responsible for contaminating a river in Japan with mercury, causing untold misery and suffering- kids born with birth defects, etc, ad nauseum. The contaminated l-tryptophan was caused by using genetic engineering to crank up a strain of bacteria used in the fermentation process that the amino acid is generated through. They wanted to make the stuff FASTER than their competitors, and tossed GMPs out the window.

At NIH these poor people were being plugged full of prednisone, and other highly dangerous drugs, which did NOTHING to alleviate their condition, while a patented, peer reviewed nutritional protocol including l-tryptophan existed, to the FDA's knowledge, but the FDA and NIH did not let these patients at NIH hospital have it, because they wanted to use them as political pawns. I can document everything I'm saying here because I testified at that hearing and exposed the whole charade, and I have the official government transcript of my testimony, along with the proof of everything I said, stored in multiple locations in case they ever burn my house down. You are right, there should be a congressional investigation- but there never will be unless we CRUSH congress with faxes about this. Anyone want to?
 
Just for a personal experience take on this, many years ago, when I was on extremely high dosages of antidepressants, as well as augmenting medications for those antidepressants, I was strongly warned off all supplements like 5HTP, St. John's wart, etc.

Even without the supplements, I experienced the serotonin sensitivity (burn) headaches that result from a too high level of serotonin in the brain. It is a very specific type of headache that feels like the entire surface of your brain is burning, if that makes any sense. When this occurred the doctor would reduce one of the augmenting medications until it passed.

While I don't doubt that serotonin sensitivity reactions are rare with natural supplements at maintenance levels, they - at least in my experience - are not at all rare when using SSRIs, especially at high dosages.

My sincere advice it to get off of all SSRIs and psychotropic pharmaceuticals - as one begins supplementation and significant diet changes to allow ones body and brain to balance itself and work as it is supposed to work. Just as an example, before I stopped the SSRIs and augmenting drugs, I had severe asthma and used and inhaler every day. I was allergic to dust, down and several foods. I was 60 pounds over weight and had pain in most of my joints.

Within months after removing all pharmaceuticals, and changing my diet, my asthma was completely gone, my weight was down, I was no longer allergic to anything and my joint pain was gone. My body literally looked and felt 10 years younger.

I was also told that I could not stop taking the antidepressants - ever - that, in fact, with my condition, it would kill me to try to do so. I asked to wean off of them and was told that due to the length of time I had been on them and the types I was taking, it was simply not possible - I was diagnosed with 'non-responsive major depressive disorder' and was told that was that...

So, I stopped asking, did my own research and very slowly weaned myself off of all of the medications over an 8 month period - successfully. I did have side effects from the withdrawal, and some were quite uncomfortable, but nothing that I could not handle with the help of detox techniques and diet. In fact, I did not even start supplementation of any kind until a year after being completely free of all pharmaceuticals, since I strongly wanted to see how my mind and body would operate on its own first. This may not be the best idea for everyone, since supplementation is so important to systems that are out of balance.

So, increasingly long story short - it's my personal experience that the road to a healthy mind and body is directly linked to a removal of all psychotropic pharmaceutical medications and a diet free of gluten, dairy, and processed foods of any kind.

I can't stress this enough - I've lived through it. I was told I could not do it, but I did it anyway, because to continue to pay $700 a month for meds and live a life that was devoid of emotion, clarity of thought and healthy function of body was to be dead already anyway. I'm not an unusually strong woman - nor was I one who ate a healthy diet before the shift (junk food items were staples!!)

I think anyone who is dedicated to making their life, body and mind better can do this - it just takes realizing that what you actually take into your body makes all the difference in the world - and the poison of SSRIs (and processed food) have to go.

So - that's my take - of course, this is my own personal experience, so, fwiw.
 
Thank you for the clarification.

The experience of serotonin poisoning is not pleasant. I've seen other articles on it & was worried abt the possible side effects.

I will try to get off the SSRI's nut am uncertain how long it'll take.

Thank you!
 
Lakewolf said:
Thank you for the clarification.

The experience of serotonin poisoning is not pleasant. I've seen other articles on it & was worried abt the possible side effects.

I will try to get off the SSRI's nut am uncertain how long it'll take.

Thank you!

Well, even though I did explain my personal experience, I'm uncomfortable with giving advice on such details, since each person is different and I am not a doctor. It depends on your condition and the medication and dosage - any of those factors can change everything. The only universal rule of which I am aware is that it should be done very slowly and in increments of decreased dosage (assuming one's condition is amenable). There is information available elsewhere on the web, though, which might be of assistance.
 
The reason I posted it in the first place is that some people who take SSRIs don't bother to take themselves off slowly and/or take large amounts of a substance at a time.

I do, however, feel the need to apologise for the thread subject line. I didn't really know how to phrase it.

I know that the people here are not going to recommend something harmful. I also know that a great many people don't bother to research for themselves. As always, knowledge protects. The proplem is that many, many people don't know how to research.

Laura and Ark, I never took the time to thank you for the courageous action of starting this forum. Please accept my apology and my belated thanks.
 
When I first heard about this I tried this early last year/this year--because I have all the symptoms of low seritonin--with inconclusive results. That doesn't mean it doesn't work for me. When there are many variables involved, it can be hard to note the effects. I started with a dose of about 300mg and did not take it every day. I understand that taking it involves building it up and supplementing it with magnesium and b-vitamins--I didn't do that. It was expensive though for only 30 tablets at 50 mg.
But I'm starting a new test and doing it right, with keen eyes to see the effect.
As a background, even though I am anti-drug, ten years ago I took a seritonin-uptake-inhibitor called Zoloft at the minimum dosage of 25-50 mg for a period of 4-6 months.
I nearly died--any more and I would have. I couldn't walk 500 ft. without being extremely exhausted. The doctor said it was a rare side effect and that I should take it at night. When I did this I had OBE's and very vivid and dreams and nightmares and was also bouncing off the walls with energy in morning to the effect that people might think I was using drugs--no would think. I also think that sri's can enhance, or bring to front and center, the incorrect thinking in a person taking them which can result in, to varying degrees, cold hearted psychosis. I decided not to take it at night for these reasons--and eventually never again.
By the same token I met someone who took 250mg of zoloft and said it didn't work--that it didn't have any effect. With what I went through I couldn't imagine that.
I trust that 5-htp is/or can be effective for many based on the articles on Sott and Dot Connector magazine so I will take it as directed and go from there.
 
Hi Nathancat7,

I have merged your post with this thread since it is about 5 HTP and Zoloft.
 
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