Dreams initiated by reading Myth of Sanity

[HowToBe]

I have just finished reading The Myth of Sanity. When I was about 1/3 of the way through the book, reading the examples of three children experiencing trauma, I had a swelling of emotion and almost cried. The following morning, after sleeping, it seemed as if I had dreamed all night. I was able to remember four or five different dreams, which is very unusual for me. The next night I had two more that I can remember. I'm not sure of their significance, really they seem pretty inane, but I've decided to post them here since they seemed to have been caused by reading the book.

Also, during the first night of dreams, at one point I woke up suddenly and was just frozen still, with the feeling like maybe there was someone in the house, like someone frightening was about to enter my room from the hallway. I listened for quite a while, completely still (and I'm not sure I could have moved if I had wanted to), but there were no noises in the house. I'm not sure, but I think I got up and checked the doors. Anyway, waking up frozen like that is not a normal occurrence for me at all, which was another thing that made me think these two night are somehow significant.

Night 1, Dream 1
This one is sort of hazy. I remember being in my real house, and I guess there were some kind of attackers that were sneaking around outside. I guess I knew they were there because I saw their shadows pass over the windows in the morning light and heard sounds outside. They were moving slowly, and I guess they were supposed to be some kind of assassins, like ninjas or something. I went into my mom's room, to warn her I think. That part of the dream is strangely hazy, but I seem to recall that we talked about something; it might not even have been the danger outside, although I mentioned it at some point. It seems to end there, after we talk for a few moments.

Night 1, Dream 2
This dream seems like a continuation of the first one. I seem to remember coming back out of mom's room and closing the door behind me before going into my room, but I don't know if this is real or just a confabulation. In any case, my room is right next to my mom's room, but in the dream it was different in that it was and it was larger, more empty, and it had a bunk bed in it, as if my brother and I were still sharing a room (we have separate room now, but had a bunk when we were younger). It was here that I was attacked by a man, or maybe an "elf", about my size (like Lord of the Rings/"high fantasy"), who was trying to kill me. I don't remember exactly how, but I managed to overpower him and take his dagger/sword away. At this point he tells me about how he is a member of some sort of brotherhood of assassins, but that they will kill him if he doesn't kill me. Apparently, he has had some sort of change of heart or something, and tells me that I must go on some kind of spiritual quest to some far off place to achieve safety for my family and myself. In the dream I believed him, although I puzzle at this scenario somewhat. He seemed genuine, and claimed he would now go into hiding and try to evade the brotherhood as long as he could. I remember seeing flashes of myself journeying alone through different places (exotic nature scenes, like a movie or something) on my way to the goal, maybe learning things along the way, but I never learned exactly what the goal was. My impression was that it was maybe a sort of meditative journey. I remember reaching the place where the goal was supposed to be, and the "sense" I have is that the goal might have been some sort of protective knowledge gained via meditation? Like maybe the journey through all of the isolated areas was to attune me, and then at the end I meditated in this special place to gain some sort of knowledge or initiation? I don't know, I don't entirely trust this dream.

Night 1, Dream 3
I think this was maybe inspired by or related to the scenic montage from the previous dream. I was traveling through wilderness, and all of the scenery was strangely simplified, sort of like a video game. In any case, I came to the side of a long pond, or maybe it was a deep stream or river. I jumped in and swam for a long time along the bank, and dolphins began to swim beside me. I could see through the blue water into blackness below, and at one point these black creatures that looked like deep-sea fish rushed at me from the depths, but the dolphins fought them off. After hours of swimming, the sky turned orange with the sunset, and I climbed out of the water and laid down to sleep by the edge. I'm not sure whether I slept or just laid awake, but at some point during the night I stood up. I had the feeling of being watched or stalked by creatures in the woods. I began walking through the woods near to the water, and then the dream ends.

This is what one of the creatures in the water looked like:

Night 1, dream 4
This one also had a strange video-game feel to it. I walked into an old-style tavern/inn, where I (or someone else who the dream focus moved to) got work as a dishwasher. I don't know what I needed the money for, but after that, I left the inn and walked with some people who were with me (partners in some endeavor?) through this old-style town where all the houses are bare-wood, surrounded by trees and mountains. It seems like this was in the past, maybe in the seventeen- or eighteen-hundreds. In any case, there is a blank in the dream, and then I'm in an old library building, with lots of books pile everywhere. Of all people, there are Ouspensky and Gurdjieff... Apparently we are working together on some project, like we need to get over a tall wall for some reason. Ouspensky's open notebook is laid across some other books, where he has been reasoning about the problem at hand, but currently he is actually putting the finishing touches on a bust painting of Don Quixote. For some reason, seeing the painting gives me a sudden idea and I excitedly say "Catapult!". Ouspensky jumps up from his painting and says "Ah-ha! That's it!", or something similar. And I guess at that point we begin determining exactly how we are going to use this catapult to get over this wall... This last part had a humorous atmosphere, so I wonder if my subcoscious was joking with me. :P

Night 1, dream 5
I walked toward the docks on some ocean shore. I guess I was going to go on some ocean journey with some other people. There is a break in the dream there and in the next part, I am looking at this giant wooden boat that has been beached on the shore. It is completely on land, with no drag marks from the ocean. It's not clear how it got there, but there are rich-looking people standing around who would other wise have been in the boat on some sort of ocean cruise or something.

Night 2, dream 1
In the port of some city, me and a lot of other people are swimming around underwater using scuba gear and some sort of special night-vision type goggles that let us see farther through the water, and which have some sort of recognition software that highlights other people swimmers with icons. Presumably this was to keep us from shooting each other, because I think we each had a harpoon gun or something and were hunting sharks. We were swimming near the undersides of whaty I suppose were cargo ships Not much eventful happened, except that I saw a shark at one point, but it just swam away into the murk. At the very end of the dream, though, a giant shark came out of the water and bit one of the ships in half.

Night 2, dream 2
This one isn't coherent enough to tell sequentially, but it had the themes of martial arts and murderous plots, and I remember that at one point I was trying to keep from getting pricked by these long poisoned claws someone was attacking me with.

 

[Chickenmales]

I thought this was interesting. I recently read a book called Seth Speaks by Jane Roberts. In it Seth talks about these points in space called co-ordinate points. He says that when a certain level of emotion is reached in the presence of these co-ordinate points, regardless of the emotion, the emotion will become stronger and continue to get stronger. Furthermore if one holds an image in their mind while this is happening it will bring about the materialization of the image.

This is what I thought of when I read your post, I'm interested to know if your dreams seem related to what was in your head when you started crying, were they like the book or something else you were thinking about?

 

[bngenoh]

I thought this was interesting. I recently read a book called Seth Speaks by Jane Roberts. In it Seth talks about these points in space called co-ordinate points. He says that when a certain level of emotion is reached in the presence of these co-ordinate points, regardless of the emotion, the emotion will become stronger and continue to get stronger. Furthermore if one holds an image in their mind while this is happening it will bring about the materialization of the image.

Hi Chickenmales, it is wise to use the forum search bar to sort of look before you leap, because there is an amazing amount of research that has already been done, and conclusions reached based on the data of which The Seth material, is but one.

While this:

Night 1, dream 4
This one also had a strange video-game feel to it. I walked into an old-style tavern/inn, where I (or someone else who the dream focus moved to) got work as a dishwasher. I don't know what I needed the money for, but after that, I left the inn and walked with some people who were with me (partners in some endeavor?) through this old-style town where all the houses are bare-wood, surrounded by trees and mountains. It seems like this was in the past, maybe in the seventeen- or eighteen-hundreds. In any case, there is a blank in the dream, and then I'm in an old library building, with lots of books pile everywhere. Of all people, there are Ouspensky and Gurdjieff... Apparently we are working together on some project, like we need to get over a tall wall for some reason. Ouspensky's open notebook is laid across some other books, where he has been reasoning about the problem at hand, but currently he is actually putting the finishing touches on a bust painting of Don Quixote. For some reason, seeing the painting gives me a sudden idea and I excitedly say "Catapult!". Ouspensky jumps up from his painting and says "Ah-ha! That's it!", or something similar. And I guess at that point we begin determining exactly how we are going to use this catapult to get over this wall... This last part had a humorous atmosphere, so I wonder if my subcoscious was joking with me. :P

may be your subconscious joking with you, jokes can sometimes carry truth with them. Btw this one was pretty funny all the characters and all, but, here goes a possible interpretation. Since you mention a wall ie an obstacle, Gurdjieff & Ouspensky basically "The Work," and a catapult which the project you were working on with Gurdjieff & Ouspensky (The Work) required in order to get over the obstacle so that the project can continue. Maybe it's telling you to catapult over an obstacle, with help from "The Work," but this can only make sense if there is an obstacle you are facing in some form. If not, then that just goes to show that what we think we know and what is are radically different. :D

My .02 FWIW.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I thought this was interesting. I recently read a book called Seth Speaks by Jane Roberts.

Hi Chickenmales, you've prefaced a few of your posts in the last days with "Seth says..." This is a research forum, so if you want to discuss Seth, please search for existing threads, or if there isn't already an appropriate one, you can start one on the relevant board. Because, as it is, the context (and content) of your posts has been kind of noisy. It looks like you're running up against the same issue anart pointed out regarding the 'assemblage point': assuming certain concepts are real and true, and then letting your imagination take off running with them, without critically questioning the starting point. In other words, 'wiseacring'. I'll use this one as an example to show what I mean:

In it Seth talks about these points in space called co-ordinate points.

Okay, but what are "coordinate points"? Do they even exist? Is "Seth" right about them, or just talking nonsense? How can you know?

He says that when a certain level of emotion is reached in the presence of these co-ordinate points, regardless of the emotion, the emotion will become stronger and continue to get stronger. Furthermore if one holds an image in their mind while this is happening it will bring about the materialization of the image.

Have you tried to verify this? What does it even mean? In the case of HowToBe's dreams, I think I can see how you made the connection: perhaps an intense emotion coupled with a mental image 'materialized' in the form of the dreams. Because you'd recently read something vaguely similar, you saw a possible connection. That's all right, but is the connection valid? Does it confirm the existence of these 'coordinate points'? Do we even need to factor them into the 'equation' here? A heightened emotional state is more salient than a dull one, so it's easier to bring to consciousness, so it isn't strange that HTB's dreams would be inspired by the emotions and images prompted by his reading.

It looks to me that you stopped the thinking process too early, without fully following through. In other words, turned off "system 2" and let "system 1" take over (see the Thinking, Fast and Slow thread). When that happens, it's easy to let all kinds of 'garbage' in, and then our mind works with it as if it were true. But whether it is or not is the crux of the matter.

 

[HowToBe]

Hmm, upon reflection, I also get the impression that Gurdjieff, Ouspensky, and I (and the "partners in some endeavor" I mentioned, although it seems like they weren't connected with Ouspensky and Gurdjieff) were sort of "outlaws" maybe. The town did have an "old west" feel to it. I wonder if the "danger" from authorities in that dream relates to the immanent danger from the assassins in my first two dreams.

These are the main themes I notice from the first night; a journey, some sort of danger or barrier, and a feeling of purposefulness. Maybe I do need to get a job as a dishwasher. :P Or get a job. Working on it.

I thought this was interesting. I recently read a book called Seth Speaks by Jane Roberts. In it Seth talks about these points in space called co-ordinate points. He says that when a certain level of emotion is reached in the presence of these co-ordinate points, regardless of the emotion, the emotion will become stronger and continue to get stronger. Furthermore if one holds an image in their mind while this is happening it will bring about the materialization of the image.

I'm afraid that I don't know what you're talking about. "Holding an image in my mind while feeling a strong emotion in the presence of a co-ordinate point with the purpose of materializing the image" sounds suspicious to me. My first instinct is that it sounds like wish-fulfillment, and if that's the case it is cause for suspicion, I think.

This is what I thought of when I read your post, I'm interested to know if your dreams seem related to what was in your head when you started crying, were they like the book or something else you were thinking about?

Well, the cagey answer is that you could read the book and then you can tell me what you think. The Myth of Sanity is a very valuable and interesting book, I think, and it IS on the recommended reading list. ;) The dreams were not obviously related to what I had read. I will explain how I understand it (and this isn't just directed toward Chickenmales, this is general commentary):

My "sadness", I think, was a sort of "waking up" of my emotions sparked by compassion for the children I was reading about, and humanity in general. In the three examples, the three children experience what are basically common, frightening childhood experiences, and their parents never realize that their child has received a trauma that they will carry invisibly inside for many years, maybe the rest of their lives. Even the children themselves will not remember the events as adults, or if they do they likely won't recognize the impact the experience continues to have on them - that is the nature of trauma. I felt sadness as I thought of the pain experienced by the children, and how that pain would be invisibly relived in their future lives without their even knowing. I also thought about the many people that must be walking around, experiencing minor everyday torments and dissociative episodes cause by events in their childhoods that were basically no one's fault, and which go unhealed because knowledge of trauma, what it looks like, and how to recover from it is so rare. Most traumatized people do not think they are traumatized And maybe a similar child lives inside me, whom I can't see yet. I want to help him not to be afraid anymore. I think that is why I cried.

So, I think that it was these feelings and realizations that caused the dreaming. Maybe my subconscious was using the new knowledge to address multiple issues, and maybe I remembered the dreams that I did because they may or may not have some value to my conscious mind. We really don't know, do we? ;)

While this:

Night 1, dream 4
This one also had a strange video-game feel to it. I walked into an old-style tavern/inn, where I (or someone else who the dream focus moved to) got work as a dishwasher. I don't know what I needed the money for, but after that, I left the inn and walked with some people who were with me (partners in some endeavor?) through this old-style town where all the houses are bare-wood, surrounded by trees and mountains. It seems like this was in the past, maybe in the seventeen- or eighteen-hundreds. In any case, there is a blank in the dream, and then I'm in an old library building, with lots of books pile everywhere. Of all people, there are Ouspensky and Gurdjieff... Apparently we are working together on some project, like we need to get over a tall wall for some reason. Ouspensky's open notebook is laid across some other books, where he has been reasoning about the problem at hand, but currently he is actually putting the finishing touches on a bust painting of Don Quixote. For some reason, seeing the painting gives me a sudden idea and I excitedly say "Catapult!". Ouspensky jumps up from his painting and says "Ah-ha! That's it!", or something similar. And I guess at that point we begin determining exactly how we are going to use this catapult to get over this wall... This last part had a humorous atmosphere, so I wonder if my subcoscious was joking with me. :P

may be your subconscious joking with you, jokes can sometimes carry truth with them. Btw this one was pretty funny all the characters and all, but, here goes a possible interpretation. Since you mention a wall ie an obstacle, Gurdjieff & Ouspensky basically "The Work," and a catapult which the project you were working on with Gurdjieff & Ouspensky (The Work) required in order to get over the obstacle so that the project can continue. Maybe it's telling you to catapult over an obstacle, with help from "The Work," but this can only make sense if there is an obstacle you are facing in some form. If not, then that just goes to show that what we think we know and what is are radically different. :D

My .02 FWIW.

That seems reasonable. The "wall" could be the situation I've described in most detail in this post. And indeed I know of nothing but The Work that shows any promise. At least I can take some funny comfort in the fact that I apparently have a "Gurdjieff" and an "Ouspenski" in my psyche trying to help me get through this. ;D

 

[Sol Logos]

I'd say your experience of crying and what you said about not remembering stuff as a child (granted you weren't referring to yourself) are linked. People can be saddened by the suffering of others, but unless it's triggering an emotion in them, they won't be crying about it. They may feel a sense of compassion for others, but a direct emotional response suggests something in them that is mirrored. So the fact that something is being unearthed in you means you're currently on the precipice of personal change. Given that’s happening lets just say people (or entities if you will) are threatened – as a positive change in you, means a loss of control others can assert on you. So in your dreams it is clear that you yourself have fears about your own transition, so much fear that it’s relatively simple to for anyone (including you) to thwart this from happening (because of the fear existent in you). It doesn’t matter if you take a Jungian approach and see that these shadowy figures threaten an attack on you (and your mother) are in fact aspects of your own psyche or whether they are real manifestations. That’s because the meaning is the same in both cases - the meaning for you. There’s much in your own comments that points to what that is. Why is your mother such a significant person here? Why do you feel you need to protect her? When I say “protect her” - I’m just as much saying protect the image you have of her as well.

I hope that helps!