Election in Germany 2017

Gawan

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In about 4 months (24th September) another important - at least for Europe - election is held and this time in Germany. So far some of the candidates are Angela Merkel again from the CDU (christ democrats), Martin Schulz from the SPD (social democrats), Dietmar Bartsch and Sahra Wagenknecht from the Linke (left party). The AfD (alternative for Germany) changed its course recently and Frauke Petry stepped back (one of the reasons may be her pregnancy) and two other candidates took her position.

As far as I can tell it is more or less quiet at the moment. The christ democratic party one over the last months several state elections and the SPD is losing ground again and comes across as having no real plan. Also stats say that the AfD is also not that strong anymore as one year ago, though they never may have made it as a chancellor, but may change pretty fast again. Having said that, Merkel looks at the moment like she could make it again.
 
Gawan said:
In about 4 months (24th September) another important - at least for Europe - election is held and this time in Germany. So far some of the candidates are Angela Merkel again from the CDU (christ democrats), Martin Schulz from the SPD (social democrats), Dietmar Bartsch and Sahra Wagenknecht from the Linke (left party). The AfD (alternative for Germany) changed its course recently and Frauke Petry stepped back (one of the reasons may be her pregnancy) and two other candidates took her position.

As far as I can tell it is more or less quiet at the moment. The christ democratic party one over the last months several state elections and the SPD is losing ground again and comes across as having no real plan. Also stats say that the AfD is also not that strong anymore as one year ago, though they never may have made it as a chancellor, but may change pretty fast again. Having said that, Merkel looks at the moment like she could make it again.

Hi Gawan, thank you for sharing. I've been trying to look into the situation and voters' moods in Germany but the major sites I rely on have little information. The stuff I've been finding is likely to be biased. If you find any sources that would shed some light on the situation in Germany I think it would be useful to share them.

WHat I do find is mostly materials on Merkel, which is understandable given she's the head of the ruling party and it's still early days:

This article was published today:

https://sputniknews.com/politics/201705231053889600-merkel-schulz-poll/
German Chancellor Angela Merkel's Christian Democratic Union (CDU) has widened its lead over the Social Democratic Party (SPD) headed by former President of EU Parliament Martin Schulz by 1 percent, a poll showed on Tuesday.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — According to the poll conducted by the Forsa institute, 39 percent of the respondents would vote for CDU, in comparison to 25 percent for SPD, while last week the results were 38 percent and 26 percent respectively.


According to Sputnik the results are a bit of a change from February when it was Shults had the lead:

As many as 43.5 percent of Germans would like to see Martin Schulz from the Social Democratic Party as the country's next chancellor rather than the incumbent Angela Merkel, a poll showed.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — According to the Civey survey, released by Der Spiegel magazine on Sunday, 37.9 percent would prefer Merkel, who represents the Christian Democratic Union of Germany (CDU) allied with the Christian Social Union in Bavaria (CSU), while 18.6 percent said they did not know which of the two candidates to choose.



Edit: quotes added
 
Unemployment is reportedly at its lowest in four decades. All other things being equal, it'll be Merkel and the CDU again.
 
Niall said:
Unemployment is reportedly at its lowest in four decades. All other things being equal, it'll be Merkel and the CDU again.

That's my feeling as well. And dare I say it: this might actually be not that bad. At least she is an experienced politician who knows the game and I have a slight hope that she did (and continues to do) at least some things behind the scenes that are good for the country, in the narrow space she can maneuver as the head of a country that has been a US vassal for a long time.

But even if that's a wrong assessment, nothing would get better with Schulz and it might get worse. He is a neoliberal EU technocrat who tries to pretend he cares for the people Blair-style (minus the charisma) and he is fully in line with the transatlantic agenda, as far as I can tell.

It will be interesting how much votes the Left party and the right-wing AfD will gather, which are the two anti-establishment parties, or so it seems. They might change the discourse a bit if they are both strong in parliament.

As for the greens: :barf:
 
luc said:
Niall said:
Unemployment is reportedly at its lowest in four decades. All other things being equal, it'll be Merkel and the CDU again.

That's my feeling as well. And dare I say it: this might actually be not that bad. At least she is an experienced politician who knows the game and I have a slight hope that she did (and continues to do) at least some things behind the scenes that are good for the country, in the narrow space she can maneuver as the head of a country that has been a US vassal for a long time.

My views as well, having spent some time in Germany, I think Merkel and CDU will be back again at the helm; as she has provided the stability that most of the German business community desires. I think too (and I could be wrong) that a majority of Germans feel this way; as she is at least something they understand. They "expect" Germany to continue its present course; they "expect" business, exports and employment to be stable - and I think most importantly they dont want to see/experience the political "upheavals" and instability that has happened in neighboring countries.

I think she lost some political capital with the "refugee issue" - but overall, the desire for stability; and for a strong export orientated Germany to lead the EU, might just ensure that she & the CDU wins. I too think its not a bad thing; and i have hope that she will continue to do "behind the scenes" things are good for Germany. fwiw
 
I watched the recent and only TV-duell between Merkel and Schulz, which was 1.5 hrs. Over half the time they spoke about immigration and foreign countries (especially Turkey) and only a bit about internal problems. The root problem for the mass migration were the smugglers :rolleyes:. Merkel was very diplomatic as well as Schulz (only he was very against Trump and Erdogan), but nothing different was to expected. Since they form at the moment one coalition they had similar views. What I missed in comparison to Trump for example that they talked about German problems that would matter everyone, but yeah.

luc said:
Niall said:
Unemployment is reportedly at its lowest in four decades. All other things being equal, it'll be Merkel and the CDU again.

That's my feeling as well. And dare I say it: this might actually be not that bad. At least she is an experienced politician who knows the game and I have a slight hope that she did (and continues to do) at least some things behind the scenes that are good for the country, in the narrow space she can maneuver as the head of a country that has been a US vassal for a long time.

But even if that's a wrong assessment, nothing would get better with Schulz and it might get worse. He is a neoliberal EU technocrat who tries to pretend he cares for the people Blair-style (minus the charisma) and he is fully in line with the transatlantic agenda, as far as I can tell.

It will be interesting how much votes the Left party and the right-wing AfD will gather, which are the two anti-establishment parties, or so it seems. They might change the discourse a bit if they are both strong in parliament.

[...]

According to some polls from about two weeks back (Merkels party (CDU/CSU) is at the front, followed by Schulzs party (SPD)):

survey_election.jpg


And is about still the same today, however true they really are. So again, it still looks like if Merkel wins again the next turn. Again it will be interesting how much percentage the AFD and Left get in the end.
 
Yesterday was the election day in Germany and the strong parties got a bit surprised that the AFD got several more percentage and turned out to be on the third place. The big losers are the big parties as it can be seen in the result picture. At the moment they are discussing a Jamaika coalition with CDU ("black"), Greens ("green", pro climate) and FDP ("yellow" and liberals).

In the picture below you also see on the second bar of each party how many percentage they got in the election 2013.

election_germany.jpg
 
Gawan said:
Yesterday was the election day in Germany and the strong parties got a bit surprised that the AFD got several more percentage and turned out to be on the third place. The big losers are the big parties as it can be seen in the result picture. At the moment they are discussing a Jamaika coalition with CDU ("black"), Greens ("green", pro climate) and FDP ("yellow" and liberals).

In the picture below you also see on the second bar of each party how many percentage they got in the election 2013.

election_germany.jpg

Yes the AfD being on third place is a surprise but at the same time foreseeable. Since nobody wants to build a government coalition with the AfD, the most likely coalition looks like a CDU, FDP and Grüne coalition. Since the SPD so openly said that they are not willing to make another "big coalition" (meaning CDU + SPD), SPD seems to be out of the picture now.
 
SocietyoftheSpectacle said:
Dont mean to be Flippant ,
but angela merkel has an uncanny similarity to Aleister Crowley,

Yeah, not sure how that's proves or says anything. One can by a psycho and not resemble Crowey. Take Killary for example, or Netanyahu. ;)
 
SocietyoftheSpectacle said:
Dont mean to be Flippant ,
but angela merkel has an uncanny similarity to Aleister Crowley

Angela Merkel isn't the prettiest woman alive, but reality isn't a Disney movie, i.e. evil guys aren't necessarily hideous, and the knight in shining armor isn't necessarily the good guy.
You also don't know if Crowley was a psychopath or just a confused guy who marketed the occult in order to get attention.

The problem with our reality is that there are many wolves in sheep's clothing. Ted Bundy looked pleasant to the women he met, yet he turned out to be one of the most evil psychopaths ever...
 
Germany’s Government Impasse: End of Merkel Era Is Within Sight

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/11/21/germany-government-impasse-end-merkel-era-within-sight.html

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has suffered a crushing defeat. On Nov.20, she informed the president of her failure to form a coalition government. This is a shock for Germany with its postwar record of government stability and political consensus and the entire Europe as well.

For the first time in her 12 years as chancellor, Angela Merkel is unable to exercise power. Germany's Free Democrats (FDP) have called off coalition talks with her CDU/CSU bloc and the Greens. According to Christian Lindner, the party’s leader, “no basis for trust and a shared idea” has been found. Angela Merkel will remain acting chancellor, but the prospects of forming a new coalition government are dim.

Among the core differences is the issue of refugee and asylum policy and, in particular, the issue of whether refugees should be allowed to bring their families to Germany. In 2016, the right was suspended. But the freeze runs out next year, raising the prospect of a spike in migrant flows. The idea of family reunification is supported by Greens. The Christian Social Union in Bavaria (CSU) is on the way to toughen its position on allowing in new migrants.

Russia is also an issue of discord. Christian Lindner, the leader of Germany’s Free Democratic Party (FDP) opposes the Merkel’s stance on the relationship with that country. He believes that “The security and prosperity of Europe depends on its relationship with Moscow.” According to him, the issue of Crimea should be set aside for the moment in order to make progress in other areas. German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier has also voiced his support for improvement of the ties with Moscow. The voices are heard in Germany calling for easing the Russia sanctions, which destroy German businesses. Dozens of German companies have already gone bankrupt because of the punitive measures.

Before the September elections in Germany, representatives of all many political parties, including the AfD, the Left-wing party (Die Linke), and the German Social Democratic Party (SPD) declared that improving relationships with Moscow was important for them, calling for at least a partial lifting of sanctions against it. The SPD described Russia as a key country for security and peace in Europe and those goals may be achieved “exclusively jointly with Russia, rather than beside or against it”. Sigmar Gabriel, the head of German diplomacy and influential SPD politician, believes that the expectation of a full implementation of the Minsk arrangements is “illusionary” and sanctions should already be lifted in the situation in which the truce in Eastern Ukraine is maintained.

Even the Bavarian CSU, the chancellor’s closest ally and partner, believes that “sanctions against Russia must not continue permanently” and Germans must “build bridges to Russia”. Accordingly, the CSU wants to develop a schedule for lifting the sanctions, which would be “waived alongside the gradual entry into force of the Minsk provisions”. German direct investments in Russia are growing to reach $312 million in the first quarter of 2017. It significantly exceeded the total volume of German investments in 2016, which amounted to $225 million. Over 5,500 companies with the German capital are operating in Russia. Lifting the sanctions against Moscow could eliminate an irritant in the Germany’s relationship with other EU members.

Angela Merkel could choose to enter talks with just the Greens to form a minority government. The Christian Democrats could also try to make an arrangement with the but the chance is slim as the SPD has repeatedly reaffirmed that its role in the parliament will be in opposition. Even if an agreement is reached, the country would have a weak government with murky future. Normally, such minority coalitions don’t last long.

The situation raises the prospect of new elections. This is the most probable scenario, unless the Christian Democrats can entice the FDP back to the table in the days ahead, which is unlikely. A return to the polls in early 2018 is a chance for the right wing Alternative for Germany (AfD) to score an even better result than it achieved two months ago with almost 13 percent of the vote. A new election hardly bodes well for the parties that failed to agree on a coalition. And now the main thing - if a new election is announced, the Christian Democrats are likely to be led by another leader. After all, nobody else but Angela Merkel is responsible for the problem of migrants, which divides the country, the failure of the party to win at least 40 percent of the vote in the September election and the recent failure to form a ruling coalition.

Whatever the outcome, the days of Angela Merkel as the strong leader of the EU are gone. Once dubbed the «Queen of Europe», she has passed her zenith and is standing on shaky ground now. With irritation caused by the immigration policy growing across Europe, many people in Germany and other European countries remember who is responsible for the EU’s woes. French President Macron is better positioned to lead the European Union as the German chancellor’s turn at the top appears to be coming to an end. The balance in France’s favor. The end of Merkel’s era is in sight.
 
Gawan said:
In about 4 months (24th September) another important - at least for Europe - election is held and this time in Germany. So far some of the candidates are Angela Merkel again from the CDU (christ democrats), Martin Schulz from the SPD (social democrats), Dietmar Bartsch and Sahra Wagenknecht from the Linke (left party). The AfD (alternative for Germany) changed its course recently and Frauke Petry stepped back (one of the reasons may be her pregnancy) and two other candidates took her position.

Hi Gawan,

as a German I'd like to correct something here. Maybe you meant that, but it doesn't become clear enough in my eyes: In Germany the people votes for PARTIES and members of parliament, not for a chancellor! Voting the Chancellor is the duty of these elected members of parliament.

greetz
ete
 
H2O said:
Germany’s Government Impasse: End of Merkel Era Is Within Sight

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/11/21/germany-government-impasse-end-merkel-era-within-sight.html

German Chancellor Angela Merkel has suffered a crushing defeat. On Nov.20, she informed the president of her failure to form a coalition government. This is a shock for Germany with its postwar record of government stability and political consensus and the entire Europe as well.

For the first time in her 12 years as chancellor, Angela Merkel is unable to exercise power. Germany's Free Democrats (FDP) have called off coalition talks with her CDU/CSU bloc and the Greens. According to Christian Lindner, the party’s leader, “no basis for trust and a shared idea” has been found. Angela Merkel will remain acting chancellor, but the prospects of forming a new coalition government are dim.

Among the core differences is the issue of refugee and asylum policy and, in particular, the issue of whether refugees should be allowed to bring their families to Germany. In 2016, the right was suspended. But the freeze runs out next year, raising the prospect of a spike in migrant flows. The idea of family reunification is supported by Greens. The Christian Social Union in Bavaria (CSU) is on the way to toughen its position on allowing in new migrants.

Russia is also an issue of discord. Christian Lindner, the leader of Germany’s Free Democratic Party (FDP) opposes the Merkel’s stance on the relationship with that country. He believes that “The security and prosperity of Europe depends on its relationship with Moscow.” According to him, the issue of Crimea should be set aside for the moment in order to make progress in other areas. German President Frank-Walter Steinmeier has also voiced his support for improvement of the ties with Moscow. The voices are heard in Germany calling for easing the Russia sanctions, which destroy German businesses. Dozens of German companies have already gone bankrupt because of the punitive measures.

Before the September elections in Germany, representatives of all many political parties, including the AfD, the Left-wing party (Die Linke), and the German Social Democratic Party (SPD) declared that improving relationships with Moscow was important for them, calling for at least a partial lifting of sanctions against it. The SPD described Russia as a key country for security and peace in Europe and those goals may be achieved “exclusively jointly with Russia, rather than beside or against it”. Sigmar Gabriel, the head of German diplomacy and influential SPD politician, believes that the expectation of a full implementation of the Minsk arrangements is “illusionary” and sanctions should already be lifted in the situation in which the truce in Eastern Ukraine is maintained.

Even the Bavarian CSU, the chancellor’s closest ally and partner, believes that “sanctions against Russia must not continue permanently” and Germans must “build bridges to Russia”. Accordingly, the CSU wants to develop a schedule for lifting the sanctions, which would be “waived alongside the gradual entry into force of the Minsk provisions”. German direct investments in Russia are growing to reach $312 million in the first quarter of 2017. It significantly exceeded the total volume of German investments in 2016, which amounted to $225 million. Over 5,500 companies with the German capital are operating in Russia. Lifting the sanctions against Moscow could eliminate an irritant in the Germany’s relationship with other EU members.

Angela Merkel could choose to enter talks with just the Greens to form a minority government. The Christian Democrats could also try to make an arrangement with the but the chance is slim as the SPD has repeatedly reaffirmed that its role in the parliament will be in opposition. Even if an agreement is reached, the country would have a weak government with murky future. Normally, such minority coalitions don’t last long.

The situation raises the prospect of new elections. This is the most probable scenario, unless the Christian Democrats can entice the FDP back to the table in the days ahead, which is unlikely. A return to the polls in early 2018 is a chance for the right wing Alternative for Germany (AfD) to score an even better result than it achieved two months ago with almost 13 percent of the vote. A new election hardly bodes well for the parties that failed to agree on a coalition. And now the main thing - if a new election is announced, the Christian Democrats are likely to be led by another leader. After all, nobody else but Angela Merkel is responsible for the problem of migrants, which divides the country, the failure of the party to win at least 40 percent of the vote in the September election and the recent failure to form a ruling coalition.

Whatever the outcome, the days of Angela Merkel as the strong leader of the EU are gone. Once dubbed the «Queen of Europe», she has passed her zenith and is standing on shaky ground now. With irritation caused by the immigration policy growing across Europe, many people in Germany and other European countries remember who is responsible for the EU’s woes. French President Macron is better positioned to lead the European Union as the German chancellor’s turn at the top appears to be coming to an end. The balance in France’s favor. The end of Merkel’s era is in sight.

Thanks for sharing and let's wait what will come around in the end. Currently eventually a rethinking within the SPD is happening and the old coalition could be reformed.


etezete said:
Gawan said:
In about 4 months (24th September) another important - at least for Europe - election is held and this time in Germany. So far some of the candidates are Angela Merkel again from the CDU (christ democrats), Martin Schulz from the SPD (social democrats), Dietmar Bartsch and Sahra Wagenknecht from the Linke (left party). The AfD (alternative for Germany) changed its course recently and Frauke Petry stepped back (one of the reasons may be her pregnancy) and two other candidates took her position.

Hi Gawan,

as a German I'd like to correct something here. Maybe you meant that, but it doesn't become clear enough in my eyes: In Germany the people votes for PARTIES and members of parliament, not for a chancellor! Voting the Chancellor is the duty of these elected members of parliament.

greetz
ete

Thank you for your correction and of course the people vote for the parties and not directly a chancellor.
 
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