Elon Musk and Space X

Yupo

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Elon Musk

I'd say some people have a calling to achieve societal changes through politics/activism, while others may have a calling to improve society in other ways. And while the technological improvement may not be the most important one, it has many positive effects, including inspiration for a lot of people.

Very well said. Brings to mind a number of people.
 
D

Deleted member 11729

Guest
Re: Elon Musk

Yupo said:
I'd say some people have a calling to achieve societal changes through politics/activism, while others may have a calling to improve society in other ways. And while the technological improvement may not be the most important one, it has many positive effects, including inspiration for a lot of people.

Very well said. Brings to mind a number of people.

I think so too ... I think everyone who is giving a maximum to his talents, no meter is it a talent of ultra scientific minds or a talent to be a compassionate and loving and caring mother, and anyone who work hard to learn and create bigger picture is contributing ...
 

BHelmet

The Living Force
Re: Elon Musk

Why does anyone believe anything that is said about Elon Musk? Are not these stories spun by the usual suspect media outlets that have proven themselves many times over to be severely compromised (in terms of their integrity)? Is his story believable?

And what is the need to believe in heroes? What is idolization a reflection of? (I am suggesting here that putting someone on a pedestal or or thinking of someone as a kind of savior alleviates us of the need to take personal responsibility. Put simply: He will do it for us = a dysfunctional co-dependent relationship that is present in so many religions)

There are plenty of 'red flags' surrounding Elon Musk and his 'story'. Here are a couple quotes and one item.

1. Musk always admired Margaret Thatcher -- "she was tough, but sensible & fair, much like my English Nana"
Huh?! If you are familiar with the divisive and destructive neo-liberal fascist policies of Thatcher, that quote is preposterous.

2. Musk is a self-described American exceptionalist and nationalist, describing himself as "nauseatingly pro-American". According to Musk, the United States is "inarguably the greatest country that has ever existed on Earth", describing it as "the greatest force for good of any country that's ever been". Musk believes outright that there "would not be democracy in the world if not for the United States.” (the absurdity of these statements should be self-explanitory)

3. Martin Eberhard, co-founder of Tesla with Tarpenning, sued Musk in 2009. Among other things, Tesla founder Eberhard claims in the suit that, "In his zeal to appropriate Eberhard’s legacy, Musk has instead sullied Tesla Motors’ integrity and blemished Tesla Motors’ reputation and prosperity." He also accused Musk of libel, slander, and breach of contract. The suit was eventually settled out of court, which basically means Eberhard won.

I think these statements create some serious cognitive dissonance versus the popular ideal of who he is and what he stands for. I, personally, think this guy is a fake. I believe he has been inserted into the public consciousness as a front-man/puppet-pawn to manipulate, control and influence public awareness and promote misdirected ideas while representing a psuedo-hero. A test of our credulity. There are many more examples that can be cited to demonstrate this and I will do so if requested.
 

Joe

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Re: Elon Musk

BHelmet said:
I think these statements create some serious cognitive dissonance versus the popular ideal of who he is and what he stands for. I, personally, think this guy is a fake. I believe he has been inserted into the public consciousness as a front-man/puppet-pawn to manipulate, control and influence public awareness and promote misdirected ideas while representing a psuedo-hero. A test of our credulity. There are many more examples that can be cited to demonstrate this and I will do so if requested.

I think you're probably right.
 

Buddy

The Living Force
Re: Elon Musk

BHelmet said:
Why does anyone believe anything that is said about Elon Musk? Are not these stories spun by the usual suspect media outlets that have proven themselves many times over to be severely compromised (in terms of their integrity)? Is his story believable?

And what is the need to believe in heroes? What is idolization a reflection of? (I am suggesting here that putting someone on a pedestal or or thinking of someone as a kind of savior alleviates us of the need to take personal responsibility. Put simply: He will do it for us = a dysfunctional co-dependent relationship that is present in so many religions)...

Exactly. I'd say that, as a rule, dependency creates scope for exploitation. That's one of the karmic and simple understandings of life, IMO, that can be verified in one's own life and validated as we scale it up through every domain of life, like religion, business, politics, etc.

BHelmet said:
There are plenty of 'red flags' surrounding Elon Musk and his 'story'. Here are a couple quotes and one item.

1. Musk always admired Margaret Thatcher -- "she was tough, but sensible & fair, much like my English Nana"
Huh?! If you are familiar with the divisive and destructive neo-liberal fascist policies of Thatcher, that quote is preposterous.

2. Musk is a self-described American exceptionalist and nationalist, describing himself as "nauseatingly pro-American". According to Musk, the United States is "inarguably the greatest country that has ever existed on Earth", describing it as "the greatest force for good of any country that's ever been". Musk believes outright that there "would not be democracy in the world if not for the United States.” (the absurdity of these statements should be self-explanitory)

3. Martin Eberhard, co-founder of Tesla with Tarpenning, sued Musk in 2009. Among other things, Tesla founder Eberhard claims in the suit that, "In his zeal to appropriate Eberhard’s legacy, Musk has instead sullied Tesla Motors’ integrity and blemished Tesla Motors’ reputation and prosperity." He also accused Musk of libel, slander, and breach of contract. The suit was eventually settled out of court, which basically means Eberhard won.

I think these statements create some serious cognitive dissonance versus the popular ideal of who he is and what he stands for. I, personally, think this guy is a fake. I believe he has been inserted into the public consciousness as a front-man/puppet-pawn to manipulate, control and influence public awareness and promote misdirected ideas while representing a psuedo-hero. A test of our credulity. There are many more examples that can be cited to demonstrate this and I will do so if requested.

Considering Elon's 'successful' background, for me, red flags pop up whenever he opens his mouth to communicate in the abstract with us "small people." I'm betting his political sycophanting is his way of trolling for the system because he's depending on some outside agency for something. But that's what I always think in these cases, and I see how it could also be done consciously within a strategic enclosure. Given the above examples of red flags, however, I'm not betting on good intentions and benevolence to mankind. We'll see.
 

BHelmet

The Living Force
Re: Elon Musk

Here is one of my faves.

Space X. After failing to secure a deal to buy refurbed ICBM rockets in Russia in 2001, he returned in 2002 with Mike Griffin who worked for In-Q-Tel, the venture capital arm of the CIA! (get the picture? They actually admit right there he is connected to CIA venture capital)

So Musk throws a hissy fit because the Russians want $8 million a rocket. He figures he can build them for a tenth of the cost! Seriously?! What about development costs, design costs, patent issues, procurement costs, software engineering, ground support, infrastructure and getting the security clearance to do such a thing? Is this really a believable narrative?

wiki: "In 2001, Musk conceptualized "Mars Oasis"; a project to land a miniature experimental greenhouse on Mars, containing food crops growing on Martian regolith, in an attempt to regain public interest in space exploration."

Huh?! What!? What does regaining public interest have to do with anything? This guy was all about raking in the big bucks in most of his other deals. Does it really matter what the public thinks about space travel? (except perhaps as a false-hope distraction) The powers that be have a tendency to do whatever they want regardless of public opinion. One of Musk's own mantra/memes is: If it is a great idea, just do it! So, ask yourself, is sending a little box of dirt with some sweet peas and gmo corn to grow on MARS really a great idea? Who is going to eat this food? Wouldn't the transport costs back to Earth be a little high? $1Million dollar per pound tomatoes, anyone? What a farce.
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Elon Musk

BHelmet said:
Here is one of my faves.

Space X. After failing to secure a deal to buy refurbed ICBM rockets in Russia in 2001, he returned in 2002 with Mike Griffin who worked for In-Q-Tel, the venture capital arm of the CIA! (get the picture? They actually admit right there he is connected to CIA venture capital)

So Musk throws a hissy fit because the Russians want $8 million a rocket. He figures he can build them for a tenth of the cost! Seriously?! What about development costs, design costs, patent issues, procurement costs, software engineering, ground support, infrastructure and getting the security clearance to do such a thing? Is this really a believable narrative?

wiki: "In 2001, Musk conceptualized "Mars Oasis"; a project to land a miniature experimental greenhouse on Mars, containing food crops growing on Martian regolith, in an attempt to regain public interest in space exploration."

Huh?! What!? What does regaining public interest have to do with anything? This guy was all about raking in the big bucks in most of his other deals. Does it really matter what the public thinks about space travel? (except perhaps as a false-hope distraction) The powers that be have a tendency to do whatever they want regardless of public opinion. One of Musk's own mantra/memes is: If it is a great idea, just do it! So, ask yourself, is sending a little box of dirt with some sweet peas and gmo corn to grow on MARS really a great idea? Who is going to eat this food? Wouldn't the transport costs back to Earth be a little high? $1Million dollar per pound tomatoes, anyone? What a farce.

Yes and no.

Several great figures have spotty histories as well. Putin was KGB. JFK secured the presidency by playing along with his elite supporters at the outset, and even then was mired in the Bay of Pigs scandal. And Julias Ceasar conquered the known world through ruthless military force. Even Laura has been accused of using tactics which her detractors have made great hay over.

Hero worship is problematic when it causes people to look for saviors. I think, however, that powerful leaders with good intentions can be a very positive thing, teaching through example. I find inspiration in figures like Putin, and given that populations tend to take behavioral cues from their leaders, such people can cause divergence away from ponorized systems.

If you read the article, you'll find several well-reasoned explanations for your questions and assumptions regarding Elon Musk's activities and goals.

I think his biggest problem is that he appears to operate according to Official Truth, re: AGW and the "Fermi Paradox". -My greatest suspicions rest in the Lithium problem (described in my last post on this thread).

But I'm going to adopt a "Wait and see" attitude.

You have to admit... A vertical landing of a rocket is a pretty awesome accomplishment.

Still.., you mentioned that you had a list of examples of his Dark Side. I think those could be very useful if you shared them here.

We can't know a person without looking at all the puzzle pieces. If he's a villain, I'd certainly want to know.
 

axj

The Living Force
Re: Elon Musk

I am not sure what you mean that he operates according to the Fermi paradox, Woodsman.

On aliens: Musk believes they're out there. "Hopefully we do [detect other life], and hopefully it isn't a warship coming toward us."

_www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/03/11/elon-musk-on-mars-false-reviews-aliens-and-armaged.aspx
 

Buddy

The Living Force
Re: Elon Musk

For readers unfamiliar with certain acronyms and references, AGW refers to anthropogenic (man-centered) global warming. Here's some on the Fermi paradox from Wikipedia:

The Fermi paradox or Fermi's paradox, named after Enrico Fermi, is the apparent contradiction between the lack of evidence and high probability estimates, e.g. given by the Drake equation, for the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations.[1] The basic points of the argument, made by physicists Enrico Fermi (1901–1954) and Michael H. Hart (born 1932), are:

There are billions of stars in the galaxy that are similar to the Sun,[2][3] many of which are billions of years older than Earth.[4][5]

With high probability, some of these stars will have Earth-like planets,[6][7] and if the Earth is typical, some might develop intelligent life.

Some of these civilizations might develop interstellar travel, a step the Earth is investigating now.
Even at the slow pace of currently envisioned interstellar travel, the Milky Way galaxy could be completely traversed in about a million years.[8]

According to this line of thinking, the Earth should have already been visited by extraterrestrial aliens. In an informal conversation, Fermi noted no convincing evidence of this, nor any signs of alien intelligence anywhere in the observable universe, leading him to ask, "Where is everybody?"[9][10] There have been many attempts to explain the Fermi paradox,[11][12] primarily suggesting either that intelligent extraterrestrial life is extremely rare, or proposing reasons that such civilizations have not contacted or visited Earth.

Note, the basis of the paradox is the apparent conflict between how common other life in the universe is expected to be and a total lack of evidence. Note also that, along with other potential issues involved, the above description from Wikipedia is apparently of reality as only one global context of 3 dimensions unless I'm mistaken. Someone please correct me if I am.
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Elon Musk

axj said:
I am not sure what you mean that he operates according to the Fermi paradox, Woodsman.

On aliens: Musk believes they're out there. "Hopefully we do [detect other life], and hopefully it isn't a warship coming toward us."

_www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/03/11/elon-musk-on-mars-false-reviews-aliens-and-armaged.aspx

According to the article's reporting, Musk thinks in strictly materialist terms about alien life. -But there is no paradox at all when you take into account that "alien" life is here right now, all around us in 4D.

When a researcher adopts the idea of hyper-dimensional reality, it has a cascading effect on every other realm of thinking and the understanding of which problems deserve attention. Those perplexed by Fermi tend to be operating within a "Star Trek" level of understanding/assumption about alien life, human origins, intelligence, soul, etc. Much of the force driving Musk is derived from the assumption of linear time, and the idea that our current civilization is the first ever on this planet and must be "backed up" by populating the solar system.

I don't have anything against space faring, but I would have different motivations for it. If Musk knew more, he might put his energies toward escaping through the Work rather than rocket ships to Mars.
 

axj

The Living Force
Re: Elon Musk

While it's quite likely that Musk isn't aware of hyperdimensional realities, which public figure is? Or at least, none of them openly admit it or even hint at it, as far as I am aware. Did Putin ever say something that shows his awareness of hyperdimensional reality?
 

Keit

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Re: Elon Musk

axj said:
While it's quite likely that Musk isn't aware of hyperdimensional realities, which public figure is? Or at least, none of them openly admit it or even hint at it, as far as I am aware. Did Putin ever say something that shows his awareness of hyperdimensional reality?

Here's what the C's said about Putin's awareness of hyperdimensional reality. And at least in Putin's case this specific awareness is pretty evident.

Laura said:
Q: (Heimdallr) We were wondering if Putin and his team of advisors are aware of the hyperdimensional reality, and if so, how they do they understand it?

A: He is somewhat aware, but in a different context.

Q: (Perceval) Would that context be kind of in a more military or technological context where they've been trying to use devices or...

A: More like a form of mental martial arts.

Q: (Ennio) So, he's battling through his mind basically?

A: Yes
 

axj

The Living Force
Re: Elon Musk

Keit said:
axj said:
While it's quite likely that Musk isn't aware of hyperdimensional realities, which public figure is? Or at least, none of them openly admit it or even hint at it, as far as I am aware. Did Putin ever say something that shows his awareness of hyperdimensional reality?

Here's what the C's said about Putin's awareness of hyperdimensional reality. And at least in Putin's case this specific awareness is pretty evident.

Laura said:
Q: (Heimdallr) We were wondering if Putin and his team of advisors are aware of the hyperdimensional reality, and if so, how they do they understand it?

A: He is somewhat aware, but in a different context.

Q: (Perceval) Would that context be kind of in a more military or technological context where they've been trying to use devices or...

A: More like a form of mental martial arts.

Q: (Ennio) So, he's battling through his mind basically?

A: Yes

How is Putin's awareness of hyperdimensional realities pretty evident in your opinion?
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Re: Elon Musk

I'd have to wonder...

With his deep government secret service experience, wouldn't Putin have been exposed to some of the heebie-jeebie stuff locked away in secret bunkers and such? -Or at least have read a briefing or two about UFOs and mind control projects?

"Mental Martial Arts", in my mind, sounds like fighting the predator both internally and externally.

When I was a kid, I had this vague awareness that there were forces "out there" trying to trip me up. I half-jokingly called them, "The Evil Gods", and even though I didn't really believe, I secretly acted like I did, and applied a fair amount of will and energy and intent to fighting through their blockades and various tricks. With a KGB memo in hand, I bet I would have doubled up that effort some!

axj said:
How is Putin's awareness of hyperdimensional realities pretty evident in your opinion?

Putin's successes on the world stage indicate that he's probably working over-time watching for unseen speed bumps and traps. I'm not sure I'd say it was evident in an obvious way, but global success against 4D STS logically would indicate at least some kind of awareness. I don't think luck can be regularly counted on when it comes to fighting against the machinations of a bunch of time-travelers out for blood.
 

Keit

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Re: Elon Musk

axj said:
How is Putin's awareness of hyperdimensional realities pretty evident in your opinion?

Well, what I meant to say, that it is pretty evident from his actions that he has a specific awareness of approaching the inner struggle as a form of mental martial arts. Sorry if it wasn't clear enough.

One of his main characteristics that we were able to notice again and again, that he is very careful about what he says and how he says it. And that inner development and self-control are constantly on his mind. Here's one recent example.

In this year's Q&A he was asked a question if he was swearing when there was no one around. The answer was:

When Putin "is not pleased with himself," he sometimes swears, he admitted when asked whether he uses offensive language "when sure that he's not being filmed."

"My fault," the president said, adding that he "would pray for forgiveness."

And considering what we know about 4D STS working through people, and that often we can be our own worst enemies, his approach shows that he is much more aware of the dynamic involved than those who consciously accept the possibility of 4D reality and manipulation. Osit.
 
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