Evidence of lunar impact, or perhaps evidence of the 8th Sphere?

[alchemy]

An interesting article, which got me wondering whether this proposed 'ancient lunar impact' might not instead be physical evidence, or a physical manifestation, of the 8th Sphere discussed by Gurdjieff & the C's? I can offer no evidence that a phenomenon such as the '8th sphere' would actually manifest in a physical, third density sense, but given the 4D bleed-through discussed in other areas, it does seem a credible possibility:

Kaboom! Ancient impacts scarred moon to its core

Ohio State University planetary scientists have found the remains of ancient lunar impacts that may have helped create the surface feature commonly called the "man in the moon."

Their study suggests that a large object hit the far side of the moon and sent a shock wave through the moon's core and all the way to the Earth-facing side. The crust recoiled -- and the moon bears the scars from that encounter even today.

The finding holds implications for lunar prospecting, and may solve a mystery about how past impacts on Earth affect it's geology today.

The early Apollo missions revealed that the moon isn't perfectly spherical. Its surface is warped in two spots; an earth-facing bulge on the near side is complemented by a large depression on the Moon's far side. Scientists have long wondered whether these surface features were caused by Earth's gravity tugging on the moon early in its existence, when its surface was still molten and malleable.

According to Laramie Potts and Ralph von Frese, a postdoctoral researcher and professor of geological sciences respectively at Ohio State , these features are instead remnants from ancient impacts.

Potts and von Frese came to this conclusion after they used gravity fluctuations measured by NASA's Clementine and Lunar Prospector satellites to map the moon's interior. They reported the results in a recent issue of the journal Physics of the Earth and Planetary Interiors.

They expected to see defects beneath the moon's crust that corresponded to craters on the surface. Old impacts, they thought, would have left marks only down to the mantle, the thick rocky layer between the moon's metallic core and its thin outer crust. And that's exactly what they saw, at first.

Potts pointed to a cross-sectional image of the moon that the scientists created using the Clementine data. On the far side of the moon, the crust looks as though it was depressed and then recoiled from a giant impact, he said. Beneath the depression, the mantle dips down as he and von Frese would expect it to do if it had absorbed a shock.

Evidence of the ancient catastrophe should have ended there. But some 700 miles directly below the point of impact, a piece of the mantle still juts into the moon's core today.

That was surprising enough. "People don't think of impacts as things that reach all the way to the planet's core," von Frese said.

But what they saw from the core all the way to the surface on the near side of the moon was even more surprising. The core bulges, as if core material was pushed in on the far side and pulled out into the mantle on the near side. Above that, an outward-facing bulge in the mantle, and above that -- on the Earth-facing side of the moon -- sits a bulge on the surface.

To the Ohio State scientists, the way these features line up suggests that a large object such as an asteroid hit the far side of the moon and sent a shock wave through the core that emerged on the near side.

The scientists believe that a similar, but earlier impact occurred on the near side.

Potts and von Frese suspect that these events happened about four billion years ago, during a period when the moon was geologically active -- with its core and mantle still molten and magma flowing.

Back then, the moon was much closer to the Earth than it is today, Potts explained, so the gravitational interactions between the two were stronger. When magma was freed from the Moon's deep interior by the impacts, Earth's gravity took hold of it and wouldn't let go.

So the warped surfaces on the near and far sides of the moon and the interior features that connect them are all essentially signs of injuries that never healed.

"This research shows that even after the collisions happened, the Earth had a profound effect on the moon," Potts said.

The impacts may have created conditions that led to a prominent lunar feature.

The "man in the moon" is a collection of dark plains on the Earth-facing side of the moon, where magma from the moon's mantle once flowed out onto the surface and flooded lunar craters. The moon has long since cooled, von Frese explained, but the dark plains are a remnant of that early active time -- "a frozen magma ocean."

How that magma made it to the surface is a mystery, but if he and Potts are right, giant impacts could have created a geologic "hot spot" on the moon – a site where magma bubbles to the surface. Some time between when the impacts occurred and when the moon solidified, some magma escaped the mantle through cracks in the crust and flooded the nearside surface and formed a lunar "hot spot".

A hot spot on Earth forms the volcanoes that make the Hawaiian island chain. The Ohio State scientists wondered: could similar ancient impacts have penetrated the Earth, and caused the hot spots that exist here today? von Frese thinks that it's possible.

"Surely Earth was peppered with impacts, too," he said. "Evidence of impacts here is obscured, but there are hot spots like Hawaii . Some hot spots have corresponding hot spots on the opposite side of the Earth. That could be a consequence of this effect."

He and Potts are exploring the idea, by studying gravitational anomalies under the Chicxulub Crater on Mexico 's Yucatan Peninsula . A giant asteroid struck the spot some 65 million years ago, and is believed to have set off an environmental chain reaction that killed the dinosaurs.

NASA funded this research. The space agency has been charged with returning astronauts to the moon to prospect for valuable gases and minerals.

But even today, scientists don't entirely know what the moon is made of – not down to the core, anyway. They can calculate where certain minerals should be, given the conditions they believe existed when the moon formed. But impacts like the one Potts and von Frese discovered have since shuffled materials around. Gravity measurements, they said, will play a key role as scientists figure out what materials lie within the moon, and where.

"We don't fully understand the way these minerals settle out under temperature and pressure, so the exact composition of the moon is difficult to determine. We have to use gravity measurements to calculate the density of materials, and then use that information to extrapolate the likely composition," Potts said.

von Frese said a lunar base would be needed before scientists can more completely answer these questions.

Potts agreed. "Once we have more rock samples and soil samples, we will have a lot more to go on. Nothing is better than having a person on the ground," he said.

Source: Ohio State University

This news is brought to you by PhysOrg.com

To the best of my knowledge, there is no evidence that the moon was closer to the Earth in the past. My research has shown that many physicists are hard-pressed to explain how such a large moon (relative to the body it revolves around) came to be positioned so close to the Earth.

Cheers,

John

 

[Laura]

Very interesting indeed. Here is an item I included in Secret History that may bear on the subject since it also discusses the Earth having a SECOND Moon:

In 1540 the Spanish chronicler, Pedro Cieza de Leon, visited the area [Tiahuanaco] and his description of the statues and monoliths compares very closely to what we see today. The site is at an altitude of 13,300 feet, which places it some 800 feet above the present level of Lake Titicaca. Most archaeologists agree that in the distant past Tiahuanaco was a flourishing port at the edge of the lake, which means that the water has receded almost 12 miles and has dropped about 800 feet since then. All concur that the lake is shrinking, due mainly to evaporation, since no rivers flow from it

In November 1980, the well known Bolivian author and scholar of pre-Columbian cultures, Hugo Boero Rojo, announced the finding of archaeological ruins beneath Lake Titicaca about 15 to 20 meters below the surface off the coast of Puerto Acosta, a Bolivian port village near the Peruvian frontier on the northeast edge of the lake.

If, over the past 3 or 4000 years Lake Titicaca has slowly receded, as appears to be the case - as all scientists agree - then how can we explain the existence of stone temples, stairways, and roads still under water’? The only answer is that they were built before the lake materialized. We must go back, then, to the remnants of Tiahuanaco and reexamine the more than 400 acres of ruins, only 10 percent of which have been excavated.

We have pointed out that dirt covers the ancient civilization to a depth of at least 6 feet. The only explanation for this accumulation is water.

A large amount of water had to have inundated the city; when it receded it left the silt covering all evidence of an advanced civilization, leaving only the largest statues and monoliths still exposed. It is logical to conclude, therefore, that Tiahuanaco was built before the lake was created, and not as a port on its shore. As the waters today continue to recede, we should be able to find more evidence of the city’s remote peoples. Scientists theorize that the area at Lake Titicaca was at one time at sea level, because of the profusion of fossilized marine life that can be found in the region. The area then lifted with the Andean upheaval and a basin was created which filled in to form the lake. No one has suggested the marine life might have been brought to the altiplano by seawaters that were at flood stage.

The Tiahuanacans could have been victims of worldwide flood, their civilization all but wiped out when their homes and structures were covered with seawater. Because of the basin-like geography of the area the floodwaters that became Lake Titicaca could not run off and have only gradually evaporated over the centuries. […]

Professor Schindler-Bellamy as a disciple of Posnansky and Horbiger (who created the world famous Glacial-Cosmogony theory in the 1930’s) has worked dozens of years in the Tiahuanaco area and has written books on the subject. According to him the large monolithic Sun Gate of Tiahuanaco was evidently originally the centerpiece of the most important part of the so-called Kalasasaya, the huge chief temple of Tiahuanaco. Its upper part is covered with a stupendously intricate sculpture in flat bas-relief. This has been described as a “calendar” almost as long as the monolithic gateway has been known to exist; thus the Sun Gate has also been called the Calendar Gate. This calendar sculpture, though it undoubtedly depicts a “solar year,” cannot however be made to fit into the solar year as we divide it at present.

The “solar year” of the calendar’s time had very practically the same length as our own, but, as shown symbolically by the sculpture, the earth revolved more quickly then, making the Tiahuanacan year only 290 days, divided into 12 “twelfths” of 24 days each, plus 2 intercalary days. These groupings (290, 24, 12, 2) are clearly and unmistakably shown in the sculpture.[…]

[According to Schindler-Bellamy], at the time Tiahuanaco flourished the present moon was not yet the companion of our earth but was still an independent exterior planet. There was another satellite moving around our earth then, rather close... Because of its closeness it moved around the earth more quickly than our planet rotated. Therefore it rose in the west and set in the east (like Mars’ satellite Phobos), and so caused a great number of solar eclipses, 37 in one “twelfth,” or 447 in one “solar year.” These groupings (37, 447) are shown in the sculpture, with many Corroborating cross-references. Different symbols show when these solar eclipses, which were of some duration, occurred: at sunrise, at noon, at sunset.

These are only a small sample of the exact astronomical information the calendar gives. It also gives the beginning of the year, the days of the equinoxes and solstices, the incidence of the two intercalary days, information on the obliquity of the elliptic (then about 16.5 degrees; now 23.5) and on Tiahuanaco’s latitude (then about 10 degrees; now 16.27), and many other astronomical and geographical references from which interesting and important data may be calculated or inferred by us. […]

A few more facts revealed in the calendar are both interesting and surprising. As indicated by an arrangement of “geometrical” elements we can ascertain that the Tiahuanacans divided the circle factually astronomically, (but certainly mathematically} into 264 degrees (rather than 360). Also, they determined (ages before Archimedes and the Egyptians) the ratio of pi, the most important ratio between the circumference of the circle and its diameter, as 22/7, or, in our notation, 3.14+. They could calculate squares (and hence, square roots). They knew trigonometry and the measuring of angles (30, 60, 90 degrees) and their functions. They could calculate and indicate fractions, but do not seem to have known the decimal system nor did they apparently ever employ the duodecimal system though they were aware of it. (For a still unknown reason, however, the number 11 and its multiples occur often.)

The most tantalizing fact of all is that the Tiahuanaco culture has no roots in that area. It did not grow there from humbler beginnings, nor is any other place of origin known. It seems to have appeared practically full-blown suddenly. Only a few “older” monuments, as can be inferred from the “calendrical inscriptions” they bear, have been found, but the difference in time cannot have been very great. The different, much lower cultures discovered at considerable distances from Tiahuanaco proper, addressed as “Decadent Tiahuacan” or as “Coastal Tiahuanaco,” are only very indirectly related to the culture revealed by the Calendar Gate. […]

When the satellite (the former moon) approached within a few thousand miles gravitational forces broke it up; according to the Roche formula each planetoid or asteroid disintegrates when approaching the critical distance of 50 to 60,000 kms. The fragments shattered down on earth; the oceans, released from the satellite’s gravity, flowed back toward the continents, exposing tropical lands and submerging polar territories. […]

Thus the approach of the “moon” caused a world-wide deluge, effecting changes of climate and provoking earthquakes accompanied by volcanic eruptions. The “ring” left by the satellite after breaking into fragments caused a sudden drop in temperature of at least 20 degrees… bIt is evident, for example, in the discovery of frozen mammoths in the Siberian tundra. Possibly gravity - and therefore physical weight - was also changed on earth, and with it biological growth: this would explain the widespread construction of huge megalithic monuments as well as the presence of giants - man and animal - in fossil strata, tombs, and myths. According to Horbiger four moons fell on earth, producing four Ice Ages; our present moon, the fifth one, will similarly be drawn into the critical configuration of one-fifth of its present distance (380,000 kms.) and will cause the fifth cataclysm.

Tiahuanaco apparently remained for only a very short period at its acme of perfection (evidenced by the Calendar Gate) and perished suddenly, perhaps through the cataclysmic happenings connected with the breakdown of the former “moon.”

We have at present no means of determining when Tiahuanaco rose to supreme height, or when its culture was obliterated, as naturally, the calendar itself can tell us nothing about that. It will certainly not have been in the historical past but well back in the prehistoric. It must indeed have occurred before the planet Luna was captured as the earth’s present moon, about 12,000 years ago. (Zettl, Helmut, Catastrophism and Ancient History, Volume VI, Part 2, A Journal Of Interdisciplinary Study, July 1984, Marvin Arnold Luckerman Executive Editor.)

There are several fascinating items in the above material. One that interests me particularly is the speculation that the year was different prior to the deluge, and that the number 11 was significant in some mysterious way. The ideas about the capture of the moon, and a previous satellite which broke apart and rained destruction on the earth are interesting, but my guess is that this might just be interpretation of a swarm of comets or asteroids.

The theory of a falling moon has been discussed by Dr. John O’Keefe, a scientist at the Goddard Laboratory for Astronomy in Maryland. O’Keefe claims that the fragments of a moon’s collision formed a ring around our planet that blocked the sun’s rays, thus causing world-wide decline of temperatures. After a while the fragments disintegrated even further and showered down on earth, as tectites. These tectites O’Keefe suggests, were fragments of a fallen moon.

 

[Skyfarmr]

Or... perhaps the evidence of the mysterious number 11?

First of all I want you to pardon my lack of skill in posting to the forum. I'll brush up on it, but I was anxious to share this information. So thank you for bearing with me...
Earlier this year I began pondering the question of why and how the date of January 1st became the first of the "new" year? I mean, what is so special astronomically about that day? I had noticed while looking in my Old Farmer's Almanac that on the first page of January there is a picture of what one artist depicts at Janus, with some hermetic symbolism thrown in to represent his attributes for being the first month of the year (there was much investigation just on this matter alone leading to and from Hermes, The Hermit and Hermes Trismigestus, but for brevity sake and to stay on track I will put aside that very interesting thread...for now) Anyway, I'm looking through the Almanac at the rest of the months to see what they were named for and when I came to September being named as such for being the seventh month, and October for being the eight month, and November for being the ninth month and finally December, the tenth...and Last month of the year(?) Hmmm. Either the beginning of the year was later; or, prior to the oldest calendar there may have been fewer months to the year. What I found was that the calendar organization changed often before we finally ended up with calendar the World sets its schedule to today, the Gregorian Calendar.

I did find that the ancient Roman calendar did, at one time, start with March (the Spring equinox, perhaps), which makes sense with the whole born/begin anew theme, and would also put Sept., Oct., Nov. and Dec in there logical calendar position. What I also noticed was the lack of sensible calendar or evidence of a sensible calendar that predates the ancient roman calendar... I mean why is time recorded in the b.c. part of history as going backward toward 0 AD? I understand that the BC dates are given from AD perspective but in BC time, so to speak, why weren't they(the Romans and Greeks) "counting" years to reference their time passage?

So I was imagining that the last great cataclysm would've screwed up all the records, wiped out intelligence, and it probably would have taken a great many years to reorganize all that knowledge into a "generally accepted" form. I had just read in PD Ouspensky's "In SEarch of the Miraculous" where Gurdjieff was talking about food for the moon, and few days after that in SHOTW I came across the quote by Helmut Zettl from "Catastrophism and Ancient History" (because I was still re-searching for any calendar clues I could find...by the way, Laura, thank you for including such a wonderful Index in this book!)Part of the quote made me ponder for awhile 'cause something he says didn't make sense. I changed that part to italics:

Professor Schindler-Bellamy aortant part of the so-called Kalasasaya, the huge chief temple of Tiahuanaco. Its upper part is covered with a stupendously intricate sculpture in flat bas-relief. This has been described as a “calendar” almost as long as the monolithic gateway has been known to exist; thus the Sun Gate has also been called the Calendar Gate. This calendar sculpture, though it undoubtedly depicts a “solar year,” cannot however be made to fit into the solar year as we divide it at present.
s a disciple of Posnansky and Horbiger (who created the world famous Glacial-Cosmogony theory in the 1930’s) has worked dozens of years in the Tiahuanaco area and has written books on the subject. According to him the large monolithic Sun Gate of Tiahuanaco was evidently originally the centerpiece of the most imp
The “solar year” of the calendar’s time had very practically the same length as our own, but, as shown symbolically by the sculpture, the earth revolved more quickly then, making the Tiahuanacan year only 290 days, divided into 12 “twelfths” of 24 days each, plus 2 intercalary days. These groupings (290, 24, 12, 2) are clearly and unmistakably shown in the sculpture.[…]

[According to Schindler-Bellamy], at the time Tiahuanaco flourished the present moon was not yet the companion of our earth but was still an independent exterior planet. There was another satellite moving around our earth then, rather close... Because of its closeness it moved around the earth more quickly than our planet rotated. Therefore it rose in the west and set in the east (like Mars’ satellite Phobos), and so caused a great number of solar eclipses, 37 in one “twelfth,” or 447 in one “solar year.” These groupings (37, 447) are shown in the sculpture, with many Corroborating cross-references. Different symbols show when these solar eclipses, which were of some duration, occurred: at sunrise, at noon, at sunset.

These are only a small sample of the exact astronomical information the calendar gives. It also gives the beginning of the year, the days of the equinoxes and solstices, the incidence of the two intercalary days, information on the obliquity of the elliptic (then about 16.5 degrees; now 23.5) and on Tiahuanaco’s latitude (then about 10 degrees; now 16.27), and many other astronomical and geographical references from which interesting and important data may be calculated or inferred by us. […]

A few more facts revealed in the calendar are both interesting and surprising. As indicated by an arrangement of “geometrical” elements we can ascertain that the Tiahuanacans divided the circle factually astronomically, (but certainly mathematically} into 264 degrees (rather than 360). Also, they determined (ages before Archimedes and the Egyptians) the ratio of pi, the most important ratio between the circumference of the circle and its diameter, as 22/7, or, in our notation, 3.14+. They could calculate squares (and hence, square roots). They knew trigonometry and the measuring of angles (30, 60, 90 degrees) and their functions. They could calculate and indicate fractions, but do not seem to have known the decimal system nor did they apparently ever employ the duodecimal system though they were aware of it. (For a still unknown reason, however, the number 11 and its multiples occur often.)

The most tantalizing fact of all is that the Tiahuanaco culture has no roots in that area. It did not grow there from humbler beginnings, nor is any other place of origin known. It seems to have appeared practically full-blown suddenly. Only a few “older” monuments, as can be inferred from the “calendrical inscriptions” they bear, have been found, but the difference in time cannot have been very great. The different, much lower cultures discovered at considerable distances from Tiahuanaco proper, addressed as “Decadent Tiahuacan” or as “Coastal Tiahuanaco,” are only very indirectly related to the culture revealed by the Calendar Gate. […]
(Zettl, Helmut, Catastrophism and Ancient History, Volume VI, Part 2, A Journal Of Interdisciplinary Study, July 1984, Marvin Arnold Luckerman Executive Editor.)

There are several fascinating items in the above material. One that interests me particularly is the speculation that the year was different prior to the deluge, and that the number 11 was significant in some mysterious way. The ideas about the capture of the moon, and a previous satellite which broke apart and rained destruction on the earth are interesting, but my guess is that this might just be interpretation of a swarm of comets or asteroids.

[/quote]

I truncated the to just include the part which includes the information about the length of the Tiahuanacan year, 290 days, the twelve month year (each month having 24 days + 2 intercalray days), and the 264 degrees of the circle and "the number 11 and its multiples occur often".
The idea which perplexed me was his thought that the Earth revolved more quickly when there was 290 days to the year....I thought and thought about this and kept coming up with the conclusion... wouldn't it turn slower? Fewer days in the same length of "solar" year would mean more hours to the day, ergo longer days, ergo the Earth was turning more SLOWLY. (couple that with a moon going around in the opposite direction from its current direction and what that would do to lunar cycles...if there were any cycles as we know them today,...well, lets finish this path first, shall we?)

The next item that sparked my imagination was the 264 degrees to the circle... I wondered how could they know about pi (22/7), and 30,60 and 90 degree angles and their trig functions. How would that "translate"? So after messing around with a little algebra to determine what the "proportional" angle of 30 degrees (base 360) would be in a base 264, I got the following:

15 degrees (1/24th of a circle) would equal 11 degrees of a 264 degree circular ;
30 degrees (1/12th of a circle) would equal 22 degrees of a circle with 264 degrees;
45 degrees (1/8th of a circle) would equal 33 degrees of a 264 degree circle;
60 degrees (1/6th of a circle) would equal 44 degrees of a 264 degree circle;
90 degrees(1/4th of a circle) would equal 66 degrees of a 264 degree circle.
(Incidently, 1/5th of a circle does NOT equal 55 degrees of a 264 circle, but does equal 72 (8 x 9) degrees of a 360 degree circle)

The mystery number 11 comes out in all its multiples.

You can only imagine how many different directions my thoughts are going in right now, although you may be able to tell by my lack of cohesiveness...

Before moving on to the moon, however I want to list some other interesting connections with the number 11 and its multiples:
A crop circle called the "sunflower" has multiples of 11 "spiraled" into it.
Years back, I came across an 8th grade math problem which required students to determine how many 90degree angles are formed by the two hands of a clock in a 24 hour period (twice around the clock). Once around, there were 22 positions of time that were determined, in a 24 hour period, twice that or 44 times. The students which got it correctly had a mathematical formula for it, even. (sorry, these bookmarks are on our other computer...the one which doesn't want to let me see all of the forum. I will email this computer the links and post them as soon as I can. )

I can understand how fractions of the circle would remain constant from one civilization to the next, even though the number of days in a year or month may change. The question then becomes why does the number 11 and its multiples persist in the post flood/cataclysm civilization...is it just a remnant, or an identifying code of some sort...a link with the past custodians? Our link to the "time factor" of 3rd density? Would that make the true date of Sept. 11 actually 7/ll/01? Is there a relationship with the tiahuanican calendar and with the "knowledge" that Viracocha brought with him across the Pacific? Is there an indication as to the origin of Hermeticism here?

Moving on to the moon... I have problems accepting O'Keefe's and Helmut's theories on account of the same reasoning Laura mentioned in SHOTW, that is the idea of "the capture of the moon and a previous satellite which broke apart and rained destruction on earth" possibly being an interpretation of a swarm of comets or asteroids. There definitely seems to be an event of debris raining down from above, but the source of the debris has numerous implications. Unless we know the direction the comet/asteroid came from, and the course of events such as whether it hit the moon-then the earth, or vise versa or part of that scenario or neither, we can only hypothesize on the events the moon went through. But looking at the other clues in regards to the cataclysm associated with the 12,000 year ago where "the sun set where it rose", "Orion and Sirius painted in reverse directions" and the "Earth turning around like a potters wheel" more likely suggests that the Earth itself had a disruption in its rotational direction. We do know the moon currently rises in the east and sets in the west, whereas according to the Sun gate calendar, Helmut says the calendar indicated the moon rose in the west and set in the east, with 37 eclipses per month! So I am very curious as to what could cause the moon to change its direction around the earth? Or was it the Earth that changed directions, temporarily? Are we talking about the same cataclysm? What would that do to the gravitational pull of the moon on earth? Was it pushed out to a more distant orbit if it had been hit by a monstrous planetary body? Was it drawn in closer? And as Gurdjieff so eloquently explained about our intimate and life depending relationship with the moon ("In Search of the Miraculous")... how would that relationship have been different? Could it be just since the last cataclysm that this inter-dependency on the moon began?
My head is starting to swirl with all of these questions, but I wanted to throw this tidbit in the ring for all to play with. Learning IS fun!

I need to go play with the puzzle pieces some more... catch y'all later.