Experience

[Menna]

"The best way to gain objectivity is through experience."



This thought just popped into my head so I guess you could say thats what's on my mind. I also didn't think about objectivity until I read material on the site and I can say it is a powerful tool. It kind of gives you the right answer - in a way.

 

[Argonaut]

"The best way to gain objectivity is through experience."



This thought just popped into my head so I guess you could say thats what's on my mind.

That sounds accurate, but it depends on what you mean by "experience."

[quote author=Menna]

I also didn't think about objectivity until I read material on the site and I can say it is a powerful tool. It kind of gives you the right answer - in a way.

[/quote]

Objectivity will always give the right answer; it will just be more or less specific based on your level of understanding. And if you have no understanding at all, objectivity will lead you to say "I don't know." Which would still be a completely correct answer. :)

 

[Menna]

Argonaut - That sounds accurate, but it depends on what you mean by "experience."

What I mean is experience through doing or participating. Finding out what works for you and what doesn't then taking that information and going out into the world listening to ideas and reading opinions then through your own experience you can use your objectivity and sift through the truth.

This brings me to another statement - I feel objectivity is relative, two people can use objectivity but through their different life experiences I believe they will have different objective views.

 

[Nawd]

However if your machine isn't 'clean and maintained,' experience is only a matter of how one's programs react to outside influences.

Plus being that one person can't do everything, you don't have to experience everything to get to another level of truth, that is were networking comes in (thank goodness!) :)

Or so I think of course.

"The best way to gain objectivity is through experience."



This thought just popped into my head so I guess you could say thats what's on my mind. I also didn't think about objectivity until I read material on the site and I can say it is a powerful tool. It kind of gives you the right answer - in a way.

 

[luke wilson]

This brings me to another statement - I feel objectivity is relative, two people can use objectivity but through their different life experiences I believe they will have different objective views.

Interesting. I was under the assumption that objectivity is not subjective.

In a way maybe it can have different subjective interpretations each based on different levels of understanding but once one has the appropriate tools necessary to peel all the layers of subjectivity then objectivity is not reliant on the self... osit.

Do you have an example for the case you describe Menna?

 

[RyanX]

This brings me to another statement - I feel objectivity is relative, two people can use objectivity but through their different life experiences I believe they will have different objective views.

Menna,

I disagree. I don't think people can have "different objective views". By definition, wouldn't these be subjective views then?

Maybe what you're getting at is that Objectivity inherently takes into consideration the Law of Three, which adds a dynamic to our interactions with the world based on the context of the situation? The saying that is often quote here is, "there is right, wrong and then there is the context that determines which is which" - this is the Law of Three in a nutshell.

Also, I don't think life experiences by themselves lead to any sort of Objectivity. However, if those experiences are pondered on with the intent of getting to the bottom of them (thinking like a hammer) and utilizing a network of people working to understand Objective Truth, then I believe it's possible to reach some level of Objectivity, OSIT.

 

[Menna]

Dawn brings up a good point if one doesn't have a clean machine then their program will force them to experience something different then another who has done the work - These two people will have different objective views. If these two people experienced the same situation spent the same amount of time studying and researching the situation and had to come up with a objective review then this review would be relative to that person. They will both have their own objective views one might be "right" and one might be "wrong" but it is objective to them its what they believe is right - because who is to say one view is right and one is wrong.

Unless there is one universal objective view about each and every situation. Then I am wrong.

 

[Menna]

Ryan X - I agree experience cannot be the only tool used to gain objectivity but it is a tool non-the less. That’s what I mean by the quote - it should be changed to "Experience is a useful tool that one can use to gain objectivity."

 

[Zaphod]

For what it's worth at this point, my thoughts on this are that objectivity from the perspective of 3d inhabitants can be nothing but subjective. Sure, we can strive to broaden our understandings and we all benefit from doing so but, if we think for one second this gives us an objective perspective, we're just in a state of ego driven delusion.

As an analogy, science, refuses to acknowledge the presence of anything it can't measure, and on this level, it has to work that way or slide in to the realms of undemonstrable fantasy. However, that means that as time goes on and measuring equipment evolves, what science accepted or denied as being true 5 years ago, is all open for revision in the years to come. This of course means that 'objective science' is only as good as the data it can measure at any particular time, and therefore not objective.

As individuals we suffer a similar fate. we can look back on thoughts and beliefs from when we were teenagers and wonder how on earth we were ever so stupid, yet at the time, the sum of our experience led us to believe that our opinions were indesputable fact. As we have grown older and experienced the realities of life on the 'open road', we have learned that what we saw as indesputable fact, was in fact, total cobblers.

So, given that 3d is inherrently so narrow in its ability to perceive, canwe really sit here and talk of objectivity?
Secondarily, everything I truly understand and can argue anyone in to the ground about, has come about by first hand genuine 3d experience.

If we can genuinely experience objectivity in this realm, what is the point of any other densities?

 

[anart]

Dawn brings up a good point if one doesn't have a clean machine then their program will force them to experience something different then another who has done the work - These two people will have different objective views. If these two people experienced the same situation spent the same amount of time studying and researching the situation and had to come up with a objective review then this review would be relative to that person. They will both have their own objective views one might be "right" and one might be "wrong" but it is objective to them its what they believe is right - because who is to say one view is right and one is wrong.

Unless there is one universal objective view about each and every situation. Then I am wrong.

I think you might be misunderstanding the meaning of the word 'objective'. Objective means, "undistorted by emotion or personal bias". Two people cannot have different 'objective views' of the same thing, because if it was an objective view of something, then it would be the same for both (assuming both could see the Objective Truth).

Objective Truth is absolute truth - or as you put it, 'there is one universal objective truth about each and every situation', thing, circumstance, idea, etc. We posit here that there IS Objective Truth - that's not always an entirely popular view, especially for relativists and the newage crowd who push the idea that 'you have your own truth' - but it is, from what we currently understand, the Reality of the situation. fwiw.

 

[Menna]

Ahhh so there is only one objective truth, thanks for clearing that up. I guess the best way to see objectively is to clean your machine thoroughly and start from there.

 

[Gertrudes]

Ahhh so there is only one objective truth, thanks for clearing that up. I guess the best way to see objectively is to clean your machine thoroughly and start from there.

I agree, that would be one of the first steps tho help remove all the "filters" that prevent us from seeing a situation for what it is, objectively.
Networking is another step. Several people with the same purpose and with clean networking skills can bring in several views, not that they are disagreeing, they are only seeing different sides of the question, which combined complete a puzzle that can finally be seen and understood by all.

Edit: clarity

 

[Gertrudes]

If we can genuinely experience objectivity in this realm, what is the point of any other densities?

Hi Zaphod,

I don't know if we can genuinely experience pure objectivity in 3D, but I think that we can always come closer to it and that, for me, is the point.
You are right, as we go through life there are so many thinks that we can take as absolute truth, only to discard a couple of years after. This for me shows how much inner "cleaning" one needs to do before beginning to clear the veil that prevents us from Seeing.

I think that we can indeed come progressively closer to objectivity, particularly if that is our honest goal, to find Truth in the full sense of the word. However, such a task takes hard work and complete dedication, as Gurdjieff puts it, it takes superhuman efforts.
I see finding objectivity as a work in progress. Something for which I strive for, needing constant care and attention, needing constant update as I refine my knowledge.

Not sure if this helps, but this is my current perspective

 

[RyanX]

So, given that 3d is inherrently so narrow in its ability to perceive, canwe really sit here and talk of objectivity?

Zaphod,

I agree that much of what we think is Objectivity is really isn't Objective at all. I think this is where a network comes into play. Without a network, we would each be wandering around in our own little subjective worlds.

If you haven't read through this thread, this may clear some things too:

What is Truth?