Eye Contact

[RGG]

In a recent interview with my 5-year old sons teacher, she mentioned that he doesn't really make eye contact with her. When she said this, the first thing I thought was "It's because he doesn't like you" and she validated this by wondering if she just hadn't won him over yet as a new teacher. She wanted to know if he made eye contact with his family when he was at home and I said that I've noticed no problems. Now I've heard that not making eye-contact is a concern in developing children and may indicate learning disabilities or something of that nature but after thinking about this a bit more, I realize that I don't always make eye contact either. So what does this say about me? I know that if I come across someone that I cannot respect I have a very hard time looking them in the eye and try to avoid it as much as possible. I also know that I feel very uncomfortable looking strangers in the eye at all. I'm not exactly sure why but I feel like they could take something from me if I let them see me too long. I'm wondering if this a natural reaction of mine to living in a society with psychopaths lurking everywhere waiting to take advantage of people. I'm not sure if anything can really be taken when someone looks at you but for some reason I feel like they can. It's a strange subtle reaction of mine that I've just been noticing lately and I'm beginning to wonder if I'm a bit paranoid. Does anyone else experience this?

Related to this, I remember reading on the forum in a post by Laura about psychopaths somewhere that one man ( a criminal psychopath) claimed he knew others were just like him by looking in their eyes. I thought this was a very interesting comment. If this is true, do other psychopaths recognize each other this quickly? What exactly to they see? I would love to know and wonder if some of my own reactions are clues for me that I just haven't put together yet.

Interested to hear comments on this,

Rx

 

[Vulcan59]

There is a topic titled "How do you work with Social Anxiety" where there are some useful insights about eye contact.

As for psychopaths recognising each other, check this topic among many others. Use the Search function to find more useful insights. :)

 

[anart]

In a recent interview with my 5-year old sons teacher, she mentioned that he doesn't really make eye contact with her. When she said this, the first thing I thought was "It's because he doesn't like you" and she validated this by wondering if she just hadn't won him over yet as a new teacher. She wanted to know if he made eye contact with his family when he was at home and I said that I've noticed no problems.

It strikes me that if I were growing up now, I'd be diagnosed with all sorts of syndromes and 'issues' - and they would have undoubtedly tried to medicate me. Not all children behave the same and every child has different reasons for not doing so - or so I think. Thank goodness I'm not growing up now, or I would have never survived it!

Now I've heard that not making eye-contact is a concern in developing children and may indicate learning disabilities or something of that nature but after thinking about this a bit more, I realize that I don't always make eye contact either.

Don't listen to everything you hear. In the absence of other strong behavioral and cognitive signs, not making eye contact - in a child - means nothing. Not making eye contact in an adult can mean anything from excessive internal consideration to active dislike to past trauma to other issues - or no issues at all - other than someone who pays more attention to what she/he is doing than what the other person needs (internal consideration).

So what does this say about me? I know that if I come across someone that I cannot respect I have a very hard time looking them in the eye and try to avoid it as much as possible. I also know that I feel very uncomfortable looking strangers in the eye at all.

See above - and perhaps your son has learned some aversion techniques at home? Perhaps he has learned that not making eye contact is 'normal'?

I'm not exactly sure why but I feel like they could take something from me if I let them see me too long.

If a person is Real, this is not possible, to my understanding. What can be taken from one who is in control of their machine?

Perhaps a more productive question would be, 'what do you think can be taken from you by someone who makes eye contact with you?' - and 'where/when did this idea originate in your life?'

It might be worth looking into. As always, fwiw.

 

[Masamune]

Hi Rx,

I'm not exactly sure why but I feel like they could take something from me if I let them see me too long. I'm wondering if this a natural reaction of mine to living in a society with psychopaths lurking everywhere waiting to take advantage of people. I'm not sure if anything can really be taken when someone looks at you but for some reason I feel like they can. It's a strange subtle reaction of mine that I've just been noticing lately and I'm beginning to wonder if I'm a bit paranoid. Does anyone else experience this?

I definitely experience this and I have been trying to figure it out also. I feel like if I look at some people and open myself up to them then I will lose my sense of self to them. I am not sure what type of energy it is that I am losing but I have some thoughts. I feel like it may be emotional or heart energy because the eyes are portals to the soul. I think that if you open your soul up to someone who has selfish tendencies they may take energy from you consciously or not. I have been thinking that the energy may be related to what in chinese medicine is called the shen. It is translated as the spirit or higher self which shines through the eyes and is housed in the heart. One can take herbs that tonify the shen such as reishi to increase his energy. I have experimented with this and it has helped.

Related to this, I remember reading on the forum in a post by Laura about psychopaths somewhere that one man ( a criminal psychopath) claimed he knew others were just like him by looking in their eyes. I thought this was a very interesting comment. If this is true, do other psychopaths recognize each other this quickly? What exactly to they see? I would love to know and wonder if some of my own reactions are clues for me that I just haven't put together yet.

Well I am not exactly sure but I think there is a certain look in the eyes of psychopaths which are different from normal humans and OPs. They have a lack of soul or compassion in their eyes which generally look small and beady I think. Maybe they can see this in themselves. Also psychopaths tend to know they are different and have an understanding of human psychology and how to manipulate us so maybe this special knowledge allows them to recognize others that have a similar psychological makeup to themselves. They probably feel disgusted that they have to disguise themselves in our society and are desperately seeking others like themselves to work with to further their schemes. So they develop this ability to spot other psychopaths.

 

[Voyageur]

Just a question Rx; what of the teacher, anything noticeable that your son may have picked up on, have aversion or fear of? How is he with other teachers, people on the street, etcetera?

Not to take anything away from what anart said, because these were good logical answers, but this brought up a reminder that during a parent teacher interview, my son’s teacher discussed young Jonny’s lack of despondence towards him; the messages were subtle and worrisome for us, little barbs and such. Typically we sided, as parents often do, however something did not feel right. Not until later was it revealed by parents of his female class mates that the teacher had been uncouth in respect of their daughters, nothing exactly physical to our knowledge but nonetheless mentally demeaning. Later our son told us that he could never respect him for what he came to understand – not his words, but a predator comes to mind.

This is not intended to dissuade you for discerning answers in observations of these things which you and other speak, but rather to offer another observation in some circumstances that can be overlooked due to our tendencies to take sides with control authorities, especially when it comes to our children. The teacher may after all have your son’s best interest at heart and therefore this is a moot point.

 

[Mountain Crown]

If this is true, do other psychopaths recognize each other this quickly? What exactly to they see?

Seems to me that since psychopaths realize at an early age that they differ from 'normal' people, they develop an affinity for those who do not appear 'normal'. If they can recognize an emotional substratum in others, the lack of one would be evident to them as well.

I have at times casually noticed from a person's eyes the onset of an emotion before it manifested in any other way. Just think how keen predatory observation must be.

Just a thought, as I'm sure there's much more to it.

 

[ana]

Seems to me that since psychopaths realize at an early age that they differ from 'normal' people, they develop an affinity for those who do not appear 'normal'. If they can recognize an emotional substratum in others, the lack of one would be evident to them as well.

That's interesting MC, but I wonder How do they recognize emotion since their are not able to empathize, is not necessary the empathy conexion to see emotions on others? it's realy weird.

 

[Cyre2067]

Hey Rx, not sure how much time your child spends on technological devices, but this book i just finished, iBrain, talks about how too much techno-exposure can hamper our social skills leading to things like an inability to make eye contact. I don't have the book with me atm, but Ill try to find some quotes when i get home tonight.

 

[Mountain Crown]

[quote author=Ana]That's interesting MC, but I wonder How do they recognize emotion since their are not able to empathize, is not necessary the empathy conexion to see emotions on others? it's realy weird.[/quote]

Good question Ana, and yes, it is very weird.

From what I understand, their recognition of emotions begins by noticing facial expressions in others that they are unable to have themselves; the muscles in their faces are incapable of the spontaneous production of the same. Their perception grows keener with age, I suspect, uncovering more subtle cues. Also, certain behaviors toward others seem senseless to them, e.g., grieving over a loss, loyalty to a friend, self-sacrifice, et.al.

They recognize the existence of emotion without understanding it, maybe like how I recognize Chinese writing without grokking it at all.

 

[ana]

They recognize the existence of emotion without understanding it, maybe like how I recognize Chinese writing without grokking it at all.

I had not thought of this that way, seems a very appropiate analogy.

 

[RyanX]

Rx,

Interesting you mention this. I'm working on reading through the UltraMind Solution by Mark Hyman and he relates a story about an autistic boy who does not make eye contact.

[quote author=Mark Hyman - The UltraMind Solution p235]
[...]

His pupils were always dilated like someone in constant pain or danger, and like many children on the autism spectrum, he couldn't look directly into your eyes. Autistic children look at you sideways, not because they don't want to look into your eyes, but because they can see better out of the corners of their eyes. This may have to do with the effects of vitamin A and omega-3 fat deficiencies on the retina and the way proteins (rods and cones) that do the "seeing" are out of alignment in "sick" cell membranes. [...]
[/quote]

Just another possibility to consider.

 

[the_hammer]

[quote author=Ana]That's interesting MC, but I wonder How do they recognize emotion since their are not able to empathize, is not necessary the empathy conexion to see emotions on others? it's realy weird.

Good question Ana, and yes, it is very weird.

From what I understand, their recognition of emotions begins by noticing facial expressions in others that they are unable to have themselves; the muscles in their faces are incapable of the spontaneous production of the same. Their perception grows keener with age, I suspect, uncovering more subtle cues. Also, certain behaviors toward others seem senseless to them, e.g., grieving over a loss, loyalty to a friend, self-sacrifice, et.al.

They recognize the existence of emotion without understanding it, maybe like how I recognize Chinese writing without grokking it at all.

[/quote]

One of our former patients eventually got diagnosed as a psychopath, but before he got the diagnosis, I was convinced that he was one from reading this site. I would always have a blank face when talking to him and on several ocations it was pretty obvious that he was scanning my face and my eyes to try and read me. He had been in and out of institutions all his life, so I guess the psychopaths ability to read other people is like math i.e. if the "real" person says this and looks like this, it means this. I don't know if it was the right approach, but it seemed right at the time not to show any emotions which could be percieved as a weakness.

 

[Gertrudes]

So what does this say about me? I know that if I come across someone that I cannot respect I have a very hard time looking them in the eye and try to avoid it as much as possible. I also know that I feel very uncomfortable looking strangers in the eye at all.

See above - and perhaps your son has learned some aversion techniques at home? Perhaps he has learned that not making eye contact is 'normal'?

This also came to my mind.

I think it is not very simple to try to understand the reason for the behaviour your child's teacher has observed. If you have observed something similar within yourself, it might be worth to start from there, by finding the reasons for such, and a possible link to your son's lack of eye contact, in case you find there is any.

Also observing your child's behaviour at home in family, and outside with others, might give you some clues.
For example: my brother is raising 2 little girls which gives me the opportunity to observe their growing social skills. A pattern that I can observe in my nieces is, when someone approaches them with a need to cuddle them, note the distinction: not answering to their request for love, but rather imposing "love" on them, they will react with rejection, mostly avoiding both eye and physical contact. The attempts of approach can actually be quite subtle, they will feel it.
Normal children might not be able to expose in words what ever it is that they feel from someone, but they have very active sensors and will often react to adults projected needs.

The above example is not to suggest that your child is adopting the same reaction, but rather to give an example of the diverse reasons for the lack of eye contact in a child

 

[RGG]

Thanks everyone for the insight!
My son I mentioned just broke his elbow -poor thing- and it took longer than expected to reply.

Also observing your child's behaviour at home in family, and outside with others, might give you some clues.
For example: my brother is raising 2 little girls which gives me the opportunity to observe their growing social skills. A pattern that I can observe in my nieces is, when someone approaches them with a need to cuddle them, note the distinction: not answering to their request for love, but rather imposing "love" on them, they will react with rejection, mostly avoiding both eye and physical contact. The attempts of approach can actually be quite subtle, they will feel it.
Normal children might not be able to expose in words what ever it is that they feel from someone, but they have very active sensors and will often react to adults projected needs.

The above example is not to suggest that your child is adopting the same reaction, but rather to give an example of the diverse reasons for the lack of eye contact in a child

Gertrudes, I think you hit the nail on the head with this explanation and I think it is also sort of what I find myself doing. In my son's case, it may have been the fact that the teacher was "trying to win him over" which he didn't want and was trying to avoid looking at her in order to protect himself. After all, trying to get someone to like you can still be considered manipulation. Now I have also been very sensitive to this same thing my whole life but never really analyzed it or identified it. I always knew that I hated and wouldn't be manipulated for anything (getting good grades to get a new bike comes to mind which didn't work) and I remember how I would use those same gestures you noticed in your nieces. I think with me, it just evolved in the last year as an avoidance in looking people in the eye because I just didn't want any real relationships with anyone and talking about trivial things was a waste of my time so I was trying to avoid everyone. How I didn't see this trait in my own kid, I just don't get-it's so obvious!!! Well as I sit here, shake my head and wonder if I really know anything about myself or my kids at all, I'm reminded about how giving love without being asked is a service to self and I guess this also must apply to children.

Thanks All!

Rx