Fat Bin Laden?

Approaching Infinity

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
http://www(dot)muckrakerreport.com/id372.html

Basic points made in the above link:

-"fat photo" is only one frame, which can be explained by a PAL (used in Pakistan, where the video was allegedly filmed) to NTSC (used in N. America, for one) conversion
-when frames are corrected, it really does look like bin Laden
-chrome and silver rings can appear "gold"
-"Bin Laden" is really tall (6'6"), as is "fat bin laden" in the video
-if bin laden is a fake, is it also a fake zawahiri and a fake al-harbi?

e.g.

bin_laden_features.JPG


What do you all think? Looks reasonable to me.
 
hkoehli said:
http://www(dot)muckrakerreport.com/id372.html

Basic points made in the above link:

-"fat photo" is only one frame, which can be explained by a PAL (used in Pakistan, where the video was allegedly filmed) to NTSC (used in N. America, for one) conversion
-when frames are corrected, it really does look like bin Laden
-chrome and silver rings can appear "gold"
-"Bin Laden" is really tall (6'6"), as is "fat bin laden" in the video
-if bin laden is a fake, is it also a fake zawahiri and a fake al-harbi?

e.g.

What do you all think? Looks reasonable to me.
Even when stretching the fattie bin laden, the facial structure and skin tone/color/complexion still looks different to me. The nose is still more rounded. The skin is much darker to the point that the fattie bin laden looks to be not even the same ethnicity. The nose and cheeks are different shapes.

I have not looked at zawahiri and al-harbi to compare their faces on that video, that would be an interesting and worthwhile thing to check into. But, excluding the other two, I'm not at all convinced by the stretched face of the fattie, dark-skinned bin laden.
 
Well, the thing that concerns me is that the image I posted above is from the same video, and it looks EXACTLY like bin Laden. I'm sure we've all experienced seeing a picture of ourselves and thinking, "That looks nothing like me".

The whole approach so far taken to this video has been unscientific to the extreme. Picking one frame of a PAL video allegedly of bin Laden that doesn't look like him does NOT prove that it was not him. What do we "know" about the video? Not much, but I've heard that it is a compilation of two different cameras, one better quality than the other. I've also heard that the sound does not match up with the video. So is the whole "fat Osama" meme a straw man? It's entirely possible that it IS bin Laden, but not his voice.

Skin tone and complexion can be products of the video quality/color. If you go to the link listed in the previous post and compare the "corrected" fat frame with the photo below you can see that the nose IS the same shape. And the only reason the cheeks are different is because he's smiling.
 
Yes, I have to agree with hkoehli on this one - mostly because the brow and forehead appear to be identical - as is the bridge of the nose - and the eyebrows, actually. They look like the same guy to me - of course, I'm no expert.
 
hkoehli said:
What do you all think? Looks reasonable to me.
Either it is Bin Laden, or some very good plastic surgery or some blue screen wizardry (maybe they did capture Bin Laden at some point and 3d filmed his head to create a 3d texture)

Edit: most likely that it is Bin Laden
 
The skin tone of the face on the right looks very dark compared to the one on the left. Even correcting for the difference in brightness between the two videos, the relative skin tone/color still looks to be quite a bit different. Also, the nose on the left still looks longer to me than the one on the right.

Anyway, the video on the right is too poor of quality to make a good comparison, and none of us are video experts. I would also want to know if the supposed verticle distortion is typical to that exact proportion when converting from PAL to NTSC. And, wouldn't the US govt operatives who provided this video to the media know about the proper way to convert from PAL to NTSC ao account for any possible distortion?

Another question is, is there any other objects in the video that could be used to figure out the exact verticle proportional scaling, so we are not just relying on his face, but other things as well that might give us an even more clear view of how much if any distoriton there was?

We need more video expertise at this point before we can make a reasonable judgement.
 
And, keep in mind that "Bin Laden's confession" was the ONE thing that let the perpetrators off the hook of the requirement, as well as their promise, of providing hard evidence that could prove that "bin Laden did it". How convenient. I want to see some video experts

edit: and Bin Laden experts

scientifically analyzing skin tone, facial structure, and other things in the video besides the face as well before I would accept it.
 
Ok, now that I've examined the whole Muckraker Report that was linked in the original posting, which I should have done before, I'm starting to change my view on this. The resemblence to the real bin Laden in other parts of the video is much closer, especially when he is walking and you can see how tall he is. Also, his face, when seen from some different angles and lighting, does look more similar. Though that still leaves the question of left handed vs right handed writing.

Anyone heard of bin Laden expert Professor Bruce Lawrence from Duke University, who says that every bin Laden tape released since, and including, the December 2001 confession tape, are fakes?

http://physics911.net/kevinbarrett

Top Bin Laden Expert: The Tapes are Fakes

Kevin Barrett

As a PhD in Islamic and Arabic Studies, I hate to say this, but I’ll say it anyway. The events of 9/11 had nothing to do with Islam. The war on terror itself is as phony as the latest “Bin Laden tape.� (Guardian 04)

It’s tough to admit because I know on which side my bread is buttered - and dropping Islam from the 9/11 equation is like dropping my bread butter-side-down. The myth that 9/11 had something to do with has poured millions into Arabic and Islamic studies. I finished my PhD in 2005, so all I have to do is keep my eyes in my pocket and my nose to the ground, parrot the party line, and I’ll be on the fast track to tenure.

The trouble is, it’s all based on a big lie. Take the recent “Bin Laden tape,� - please! That voice was no more Bin Laden than it was my late Aunt Corinne from Peoria. I recently helped translate a previously unknown Bin Laden tape, a real one from the early 90’s, back when he was still alive. I know the guy’s flowery religious rhetoric. The recent tape certainly wasn’t him.

The top American Bin Laden expert agrees. Professor Bruce Lawrence, head of Duke University’s Religious Studies Department, has just finished a book of translations of Bin Laden’s speeches. He says the recent tape is a fake and that Bin Laden has been dead for years. (ABC 2004).

Ersatz Bin Laden tapes “verified� by the CIA are nothing new. Every Bin Laden statement since 2001 has been blatantly bogus. The last we heard from the real Bin Laden were the following words recorded by Pakistani journalists: “I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation . . . I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks on the United States . . . I had no knowledge of these attacks. . .� (Wiki 2004)

Then, on December 13, 2001, as George Bush was whining about the “outrageous conspiracy theories� that were spreading like wildfire, the first and shoddiest of the “Bin Laden Speaks from the Grave� tapes appeared. The video’s sound and picture quality were horrible. It showed a big guy with a black beard, doing a passable imitation of Bin Laden’s voice, claiming foreknowledge, if not responsibility for the 9/11 attacks and chortling over their success. The trouble was, the big guy was clearly not Bin Laden. He was at least 40 or 50 pounds heavier and his facial features were obviously different. (911Res 2005)

The “Fatty Bin Laden tape� was widely ridiculed and I have yet to meet an informed observer who considers it authentic. (If you haven’t figured this out yet, go back and look at the images from the tape and compare them to other images of Bin Laden.) But the media let the fraud pass without asking the hard questions. Why was the US government waving this blatantly fake “confession� video in our faces?

Perhaps due to the widespread hilarity evoked by Fatty Bin Laden, the next Ousama-from-beyond-the-grave message had no images: It was an audio tape delivered to al-Jazeera in the fall of 2002. The CIA verified it as “authentic,� but ended up with egg on its face when the world’s leading voice identification experts at IDIAP in Switzerland reported that “the message was recorded by an impostor.� (Guardian 2002)

Every Bin Laden message since then has been equally phony. They are released at moments when the Bush regime needs a boost - and the American (mainstream) media go along with the fraud. Remember the bogus Bin Laden tape that made headlines right before the 2004 elections? If you didn’t figure out that it was a CIA-produced commercial for George Bush, I have some great bridges to sell you. Walter Cronkite, bless his heart, opined that Karl Rove was behind that tape. (CNN ) But the rest of the media just kept pretending that the Emperor was clothed.

And the fraud continues. Last week’s [need a date if you don’t want this article to age prematurely] Bin Laden tape has been ridiculed by America’s top Bin Laden expert, yet the US media gamely held its tattered fig leaf over the Emperor’s loins. Professor Lawrence believes that the tape was designed to distract world opinion from the horrific massacre of Pakistani civilians by an errant CIA drone. But it may have another, more sinister purpose: To prepare public opinion for another false-flag 9/11-style attack designed to trigger a US-Israel nuclear attack on Iran. (AC 2005)

As our top Bin Laden expert Professor Lawrence says, the real Bin Laden, who insisted that he had nothing to do with 9/11, has been dead since 2001. The fake messages have been fabricated by al-CIA-duh to support the Bush regime and its phony “war on terror.� It is time for Americans to rise up against the masters of synthetic terror who have been looting the US taxpayer, torching the Constitution, demolishing the economy, and threatening a nuclear Armageddon.

About the author

Dr Barrett holds a PhD in Arabic, with a focus on Islamic studies, from the University of Wisconsin at Madison. He is cofounder of the Muslim-Christian-Jewish Alliance for 9/11 Truth: http://mujca.com

References

(Guardian 04) The Making of the Terror Myth. The Guardian, Oct 10 2004.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,1327904,00.html

(ABC 04) A. Rupinta. Duke Professor Sceptical of Bin Laden Tape. ABC News, Jan. 19, 2006.

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?%20section=local=3828678

(Wiki 2004) Responsibility for the September 11, 2001 Attacks. Wikipedia, 2004.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_September_11,_2001_attacks

(911Res 2005) “Fatty� bin Laden. 911 Research. 2005.

http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/deceptions/binladinvideo.html

(Guardian 2002) B. Whittaker. Swiss Scientists 95% Sure that Bin Laden Recording Was a Fake. The Guardian, Jan 30, 2002.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,12469,851112,00.html

(CNN 2004) Larry King Live. Bin Laden Releases New Videotape. CNN. Oct 24, 2004.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0410/29/lkl.01.html

Referred to in WRH. [hot link “WRH� to following URL:]

hxxp://www.whatreallyhappened.com/binladen_cronkite.html

(AC 2005) Deep Background. American Conservative. Aug. 1, 2005.

http://www.amconmag.com/2005_08_01/article3.html

discussed in Antiwar.com [hot link to “Antiwar.com� to following URL.]

http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=6734
 
I don't have access to the video (apparently it was broadcast on cspan), but some questions that should be investigated:

-what is the difference between the two angles? are they definitely from the same location (e.g., do the overlap, do they show the same scenery, or is one just a close up of bin laden's face?)?

-does the sound match up to the video?

answers to these questions lead to some possible conclusions:

1) the video is bin laden, the voice is not (possibly fabricated using voice-morphing technology)
2) the video and voice is bin laden (this leaves the question: why did he change his story? if he's CIA, why did he at first deny involvement?)
3) perhaps the whole video is a fake
 
I have enhanced the images that hXXp://www.muckrakerreport.com/id372.html has so you can see the facial features better. I have used the following Photoshop filters on the images (not necessarily in this order): smart sharpness, brightness/contrast, noise reduction, and shadows/highlights. I calibrated the sliders back and forth trying to get an image that looks pretty good. I limited noise reduction to just slightly remove background noise, so as not to "reduce" any facial features as well. I have included the original as hosted on the above website, and the enhanced version. To me it does look like Bin Laden to some degree, but I can't be sure 100% one way or another.

Original top/bottom (the conversion from PAL to NTSC):

Enhanced top/bottom (the conversion from PAL to NTSC):


Original side-by-side:

Enhanced side-by-side:


Original large:

Enhanced large:


I tried to really accentuate the subtle facial curves/features that are hard to see in the dark/blurry/muddy originals, so I really "pushed it" with the sharpness etc.

I also observed that Bin Laden's nose subtly bends to one side and is not straight in the picture that was not from the video (to which he compared the video pics). But since in the video he is slightly turned you do not see that bend. I'll see if there's a straight shot in the video, which should have that slight bend.

Edit: The various pics/videos I'm seeing seem to sometimes have the bend visible, sometimes it's hard to tell if there is one.

Edit 2: Another idea - what about the text below the picture? If the person that is supposedly bringing it back from NTSC to PAL by increasing the height by 25% is right, the font should look as it is supposed to. Can someone verify what font it is? Most likely it's one of the standard fonts like Arial or something. And then see whether the font looks "right" by making some sort of writing with that font and matching the size, and seeing if it matches in Height and in Length on any of the pictures. This could be one way to find out whether the picture should be stretched or not, and which is the correct resolution. Oh and don't use my enhanced pictures for that, cuz the font is too distorted on them.

Edit 3: The groove at the top of his nose, between his eye-brows seems different. It looks a little deeper in the video than in in the real Bin Laden photos/videos.

--------
For amusement: hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo0ForVcXd8
Another funny one: hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLvqDdgL5nM (it's not what it appears to be right away)
 
There is a Spanish photographer, living in Barcelona, Joan Foncuberta. He puts a special emphasis on studying of borders of concept what we call ‘a document’, whether a document has valid data or an eyewash. He studies the credibility and reliability or, conversely, a duality and eyewash of photographs. He received the World Press Photo Premium in a category ‘Greatest Frauds’. False creature he presented, a flying monkey, blurred all boundaries between real and faked and offered a clever and convincing account of the power of context over content. His works are displayed in the Museum of Modern Art, San Francisco Museum of Modern Art, Art Institute of Chicago.

Joan Foncuberta, Miracles & Co
http://www.fundacion.telefonica.com/at/ekarelia.html
The exhibit is a voyage to the inside of a Finnish monastery, a place which conceals an enigma. Just as in other works by this artist, the enigma comes in the form of a photo-essay, in this case, a critical review of religious fervor and superstition in today’s society.

Karelia: Miracles and Co. is composed of the photographs taken by Fontcuberta in the orthodox monastery of Valhamönde, in Karelia, the region of Finland that borders Russia. Isolated from the world by perpetual fog and by the labyrinth of the 13,710 islands of Lake Saimaa, the small monastic community of Valhamönde is inter-denominational and ecumenist, and monks from all the religions go to their secret spiritual center to learn how to do miracles.

For this particular occasion Joan Fontcuberta uses the strict resources of investigative journalism and documentary photography to confront this flagrant case of fraud.

The presentation of the exhibit was attended was the General Director of la Fundación Telefónica, Fernando Villalonga, its Coordinator General, Roberto Velásquez, the director of PhotoEspaña, Alberto Anaut, the artistic director of PhotoEspaña, Oliva María Rubio, and the artist himself, Joan Fontcuberta.

The artist has exhibited previously with la Fundación Telefónica, with Sputnik in 1997, parodying a distorted use of the photographic document in official versions of history; also, in 2001, with Securitas, showing the landscape of security through the reliefs found in the perspectives of a series of keys.

According to its creator and organizer, this new project is a humorous criticism, one which "reflects the drifting that has taken us to the present-day whirlpool of cults, rites, sects, creeds, superstitions and faiths which are the seed for confrontations and fanaticism. At a time when religious differences are at the root of serious international and global tensions, Karelia: Miracles and Co. aspires to de-dramatize the irrational force behind religious feelings, while exposing the accompanying economic commercialization and political manipulation."

PHOTO ESSAY, RESEARCH AND ENIGMA

To do this photo essay, Fontcuberta passed himself off as a novice, training to be an Orthodox priest, and took courses at Valhamönde along with the rest of the novices, practicing the cycle of miracles, those of earth, water, air and fire, while at the same time he was compiling photos and other pieces of evidence that would expose the immense fraud.

The idea came to him from an advertisement in a widely-read Finnish newspaper, the Helsingin Sanomat: Valhamönde, the Finnish monastery was offering a "an inter-denominational course on the study of miracles, "with both theory and practice".

Fontcuberta’s aim was to do a critical and humorous study of superstition. According to the artist, "the current that has brought us to this somewhat disguised fanaticism ("fanum" = temple), and the whirlpool of today’s cults, rites, sects, creeds, superstitions and faiths, far from leading us to love and peace, are in fact, the principle seed of confrontation, both at the international and global levels.

For the organizer, "just as the fall of Jerusalem meant the decline of the principal Judeo-Christian symbol, the collapse of the two World Trade Center towers, (holy places for the liberal capitalist system), also reflected the destruction of another Judeo-Christian symbol. Regressing almost ten centuries, the west has fallen into the same error of the crusades: punishment expeditions, holy wars, revenge and teaching "them" a lesson.

The new messiahs, -which are projections of collective yearnings onto false gurus- continue to closely tie themselves to the daily problems that people suffer, even within industrialized countries.

SCIENCE IN THE FACE OF THE OCCULT

Despite the fact that science has been gaining ground with respect to superstition, on many occasions the attempt to explain the supernatural has not gone beyond poetry and metaphysics. Sciences of the occult and of cults themselves have begun to substitute the big religions, while in the so-called western countries secular religions and value systems and promises that supposedly afford happiness to the individual have begun to proliferate.

These centuries-old phenomena worry Fontcuberta, who believes that its dimension are truly disturbing: "The occult, astrology, and parapsychology are becoming uncommonly widespread. The attraction to strange things and the paranormal, represented by these alternative paths, confirms the strong need arising from religious fervor that continues to impregnate the ethics of Western society, its moral values, legal system and bodies of laws, political organization, and international relations. There are no arguments more convincing or more seductive than those that provide us with a reason for our existence, curing the restlessness of spirit and offering hopes for a better life. The result is that religion remains a loaded weapon for the future. Indeed, control of weapons predisposes one to control the world, and many charlatans and false prophets are trying to take advantage of the irrational force of religious sentiment, in order to commercialize it and use it politically."
………………..
Isolated by perpetual fog and the labyrinthine islands of Lake Saimaa, Valhamцnde is a small monastic community that is interdenominational and ecumenist. It is a place where monks from all walks of religions come to master miracles, from the "classics" like levitation and weeping blood to the newest postmodernist ones, like dolphin-surfing. Ran by the Esoteric Society of Karelia, Valhamцnde in the last millennium has produced "awakenings" in such notable students as Rasputin and L. Ron Hubbard.
In a sort of deliberate, cartoon-like visual language, Miracles & Co. is an ironic and critical exploration of a drifting theology that has spawned cults, rites, sects, creeds, superstitions, and faiths which are the seeds for confrontations and fanaticism. It is no secret in a world where tyranny masks religious faith why the idea of the "miracle" is relevant. The miracle "endorses a religion and exalts the individual endowed with the gift, making him or her a guide, a leader, a Messiah, a fьhrer." At a time when religious differences form the root of serious international and global tensions, Miracles & Co. aspires to de-dramatize the irrational force behind religious feelings and actions, while exposing the accompanying economic commercialization and political manipulation of believers.
Combining history and science with an understated, illustrative beauty, Fontcuberta's photographs comfortably incorporate traditional and new modes of making images that manipulate an already fragile "reality," resulting in an impression of the original that ultimately grasps closer to a definition of what really is or isn't real. In Miracles & Co., by making connections as wide as phenomenology, to Nordic mythology, to the spread of Nazism, to the "invention" of Osama Bin Laden, Fontcuberta opens dialogue with the political implications of spiritual faith as much as he makes whimsical photographs that use photography itself as a tool for sham that in turn investigates other forms of sham.
Fontcuberta wrote quite an interesting short article, which appeared in ‘La Vanguardia’ on the 22 of January, 2003
22-01-2003. pdf
Joan Fontcuberta said:
No one doubts that photos are too ambiguous documents. And the ambiguous images produced by ‘Al Zur ‘ agency and published in the appendix ‘Culturas of ‘La Vanguardia’ newspaper, do in fact represent more than the convincing proof in favor of such statement. In these so-called ‘documents’, doctor Fasqiyta-Ul Junat, the true leader of Al-Qaeda, was claimed to appear. But the American special services determined that these images were fake and have declared, that on ‘Al Zur’ photos the fake person appears. After events of September, 11th the American Intelligence Service quickly needed to find ‘guilty’ so the world community would not point attention at obvious misses made by US Intelligence. According to statements of various anti-war organizations the Department on Strategic Studies engaged primarily in distribution of a false information, has come to decision on necessity to invent the character of Osama bin Laden. When the first descriptions and videos of awful quality began to appear on TV, a message that actually an actor and singer Mohamed Ben Yusuf appears on these photo and video appeared on the Internet.

Till that very moment aged philanderer Jusuf was appearing only in B,C-grade soap operas and in cinema epopees in a genre ‘peplum’, filmed on the basis of the classic Arabian myths and Arabian ancient history. The analysis of appeared video data has shown, that shootings were made not at all in Torah-Borah mountains, but in Makkram-Suaz caves on Sinai peninsula. And some materials have been created on the cinema plateau located somewhere in desert of Nevada where also it has been photographed and is skillfully imitated ‘"Apollo's’ lunar landing. Caught in fraganti employees of the US Ministry of Defence did not deny the information appeared on Internet, but, on the contrary, as a result of their skilful zen-maneuver information was wrapped up with charges against their accusers: ‘Look, how monstrous is Bin Laden - he even uses the double, trying to protect himself and to escape from us’. Now it becomes clear, why the American special troops which have scrupously researched Torah-Bora mountains down to last millimeter, ould not find out traces of the Al-Qaeda leader.

If we follow the version about the invented Bin Laden, and categorical unwillingness to distribute ‘confidential’ data which could connect the terrorist Number 1 with the awful crimes accomplished on September, 11th, which proves this version to be true; it turns out that special services have taken really existing organization of Islamic extremists, Al-Qaeda- to which they have added the recognizable image of the bin Laden, defenceless in front of possible manipulations. And, meanwhile, the true leader of this organization - the doctor Fasqiyta-Ul Junat remained on the second plan, but meanwhile he was the main target of the American special services. The publication of the images of true Al-Qaeda leader would bear hope for his identifications. But, unfortunately, we have again come across the next false trace. (On one of pictures with the image of ‘fake’ Al-Qaeda leader doctor Junat holds in hands a cloth with the password written on it for his followers. Cryptologists had to work hard before they were able to read: ‘Carrot has already cooked’.

And photos seem to us ambiguous, probably because the reality is ambiguous even more.
In his interview to Spanish El Pais Fontcuberta told:
El Pais said:
These times must be very stimulant for an visual artist. The hanging of Sadam... The daily reality, all these images of the so-called war against the terror, they have acquired theatrical dyes, staging. I have a project in portfolio, precisely on Osama Bin Laden; an ironic work, of parody of situation, in which I disguise myself as Islamic terrorist, with a beard, Arab clothing, Kalashnikov. I play with the idea of that all these terrorists were actually actors hired by Intelligence services to be presented to villains. This is an idea that is in heads of many people. Simply it seems impossible that this ‘cave’ world in some place of Afghanistan, these home-made videos, of so domestic esthetics, is every doubtedly a real one.

It turns out to be incredible that a few guys that had the technological sufficient aptitude to mount and to realize the September, 11th, did not have necessary sophistication skills and money to produce several videos as God commands. It is true that these videos are pathetic from the creative point of view. It does not turn out to be difficult to recreate them. It will be easy to give the characterized ego of Bin Laden to him.
I think to film it in the outskirts of Barcelona, in The Rocks; I have located an open space that looks like Tora Bora... I am going to manipulate videos and photos coming from Al-Jazeera network. I will get in them in plan “ orrest Gump“, my face with the body of Bin Laden, and while his voice is heard and the subtitles in Arabic appear, I will be reciting in reality “The song of the pirate
 
Back
Top Bottom