FB Question Re: Potential Psychopath Documentary & The Netherlands

[rsnedaker]

Hello Network,
I have been posting the new trailer for the potential psychopath documentary on different Occupy pages promoting it. There is a lady at Occupy Fresno who is asking a question that I am not sure how to answer. I am hoping to get some help answering her question soon. She posted an article about prisons closing in the Netherlands and her question is here:

Question: If character defects are the root cause of society's ills (and I am not suggesting these are irrelevant) how do we explain the Netherlands (and others): http://vorige.nrc.nl/international/article2246821.ece/Netherlands_to_close_prisons_for_lack_of_criminals35 minutes ago

Here is the entire conversation not necessary to read but available:
https://www.facebook.com/#!/occupyfresnoca/posts/355183111163814?notif_t=share_comment

Thanks in advance

 

[Bobo08]

A few thoughts:

* The phrase "character defects" is vague since it can be understood to include all sorts of mental illnesses. "Psycho-pathology" would be much better.
* Psychopaths are not the same as criminals. So some countries having reduced number of criminals says nothing about the number of psychopaths or the damages they cause.
* Many factors can contribute to the reduced number of criminals: justice system, state of the economy, people's adaptability to state of the economy, etc.

I'm sure that others will have more ideas.

 

[Renaissance]

Hello Network,
I have been posting the new trailer for the potential psychopath documentary on different Occupy pages promoting it. There is a lady at Occupy Fresno who is asking a question that I am not sure how to answer. I am hoping to get some help answering her question soon. She posted an article about prisons closing in the Netherlands and her question is here:

Question: If character defects are the root cause of society's ills (and I am not suggesting these are irrelevant) how do we explain the Netherlands (and others): http://vorige.nrc.nl/international/article2246821.ece/Netherlands_to_close_prisons_for_lack_of_criminals35 minutes ago

Here is the entire conversation not necessary to read but available:
https://www.facebook.com/#!/occupyfresnoca/posts/355183111163814?notif_t=share_comment

Thanks in advance

Hi ReBecca,

I would post the following, but I don't have access to Facebook at the moment. Feel free to use any of the following:

I think the issue here might be about psychopathic influence on normal people as well as the systems we live under, i.e. the process of ponerization. And prisons are no doubt a highly ponerized system both within the walls and within the very structure itself (the article below discusses Ponerology a bit more). Prisons are not an accurate reflection of crime, justice or rehabilitation, if you ask me. The Netherlands having closed many of them seems like it could be a step in the right direction. The example of The Stanford Prison Experiment shows just how quickly and effectively a pathological system can transform both guards and inmates into a dehuminized role. When we look at the traits of a psychopath, we can see their uniquely destructive influence at work within such systems. One of the unique characteristics of a psychopath is their ability to mask destructive ideas and behavior as something appealing and desired. In this way they can warp types of dehuminizing punishment into 'justice'.

Psychopaths don't merely have a character defect, it is who they are. Their most devastating influence isn't at an individual level, which is by and large where the criminal justice system operates. But even at the individual level, they wreak quite a bit of destruction. Robert Hare, one of the world top experts on psychopathy, estimates that psychopaths make up 1% of the population but are responsible fro 50% of society's crime. It's a society had one type of facility just for psychopaths, it would probably be enough if other systems were in place to effectively treat non-psychopathic criminals. While treatment and rehabilitation can be effective for most normal people, these things only make psychopaths more effective manipulators. It is at the macro-social level that psychopaths are even more destructive, using their influence to corrupt groups, systems and whole societies. This is what we're up against and at this point, reading Political Ponerology and some other supporting books like The Sociopath Next Door, Puzzling People, and Without Conscience are needed to get an accurate and complete understanding of why this issue is so important. Not everyone has the time to do all this, which is why funding for this documentary is needed. In the meantime this article might also be helpful: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/213994-Ponerology-Why-the-Corrupt-Few-Wreak-So-Much-Death-Destruction-and-Suffering-on-the-Rest-of-Us

 

[rsnedaker]

Thank you both.

 

[Al-ith]

ReBecca, the top link you gave seems info from 2009.

Some reprieve might come from a deal with Belgium, which is facing overpopulation in its prisons. The two countries are working out an agreement to house Belgian prisoners in Dutch prisons. Some five-hundred Belgian prisoners could be transferred to the Tilburg prison by 2010.

It would be interesting to know the crime rate now and how it is compared to other countries.