Fight against "terrorism"? Try getting the story straight for starters

Joe

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I suppose it was always going to happen, and I suppose it was the fact that it was always going to happen and that the powers that be knew it, that they exert so much effort in attempting to keep the people distracted. The war on terror has begun to unravel and descend into the only thing it could - farce.

A few days ago the US Senate OK'd a package that was tied to the 9/11 panel recommendations and involves "more stringent screening of air and sea cargo" or to put it another way, "heightened security checks at airports". The major effect of the measures on passengers will be significantly longer wait times and more crowding at airports. The measures are, of course, designed to protect the people against "terrorism".

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/27/homeland.security.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Jump across the pond to old blighty, to the day before the Senate approved longer wait times and more crowding at airports, and a report by the UK Commons transport select committee stated that heightened security checks at airports, and the queues of hundreds of passengers in cramped spaces that they would create, could create a potential new target for terrorists.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6916739.stm

To sum up. US lawmakers are implementing measures that they say will protect airline passengers against terrorist attacks, while at the very same time, lawmakers in the UK are issuing reports that say that the type of measures that the US lawmakers are implementing to protect passengers from "terrorist attacks" will actually put them at greater risk vis a vis "terrorist attacks".

Conclusion? "worldwide Islamic terrorism" is simply a ruse, an excuse for governments to implement increasingly restrictive, and dare I say draconian laws in order to...well, in order to what?

It can't be that hard to figure it out. Then again, maybe it's worse than any of us can imagine?

Joe
 
Hi Joe, I have a question.

We know that the 'War On Terror' is a farce. Let's forget about who's really responsible for 911, in the minds of the public it's still Osama and his 'fundamentalist Islamic terrorists'. Even though the 'War On Terror' has been masterminded by the PTB, the very implementation of it, together with the war in Iraq, Afghanistan and the accompanying propaganda 'has' created a real enemy of the US.

Because of the demonization of Moslems and Arabs and 500 000+ dead and mutilated Iraqis, they do have a passionate hate for the US and I think they would like to inflict harm on US soil. So I think that the US 'is' in danger because of this. If only 1% of Islam adherents mean Americans harm, and according to my knowledge there's about 1 billion Moslems in the world, then the US is under threat, even though it's because of their own doing.

So I do think that the security is necessary. If I was an Iraqi, I would most likely be involved in a plot to inflict damage on the US.

So I get confused when you completely dispel any necessity for Airport security, when we know there are victims in the Middle East who would love to see some pay back.

Anyway, so when you say the increased airport security has some other motive behind it, and not the widely publicised version, you have to be more specific. I know you can only speculate, based on the knowledge you posess, but can you expand on the argument that increased airport security is furthering some other sinister agenda, since that is what you're implicating with this statement:

Joe said:
Conclusion? "worldwide Islamic terrorism" is simply a ruse, an excuse for governments to implement increasingly restrictive, and dare I say draconian laws in order to...well, in order to what?

It can't be that hard to figure it out. Then again, maybe it's worse than any of us can imagine?
 
erna said:
Anyway, so when you say the increased airport security has some other motive behind it, and not the widely publicised version, you have to be more specific.
I thought he was when he dropped the link to the UK Report....

joe said:
a report by the UK Commons transport select committee stated that heightened security checks at airports, and the queues of hundreds of passengers in cramped spaces that they would create, could create a potential new target for terrorists.
Imagine how restrictive they'd make travel if they false-flagged a crowded major airport.
 
Erna said:
So I get confused when you completely dispel any necessity for Airport security, when we know there are victims in the Middle East who would love to see some pay back.
I can't answer for Joe, but I'd still like to point out a few flaws in your thinking...at least in the way I see it.

First your assumption that Muslims, or even just Iraqis, would be out to inflict damage on the U.S. because of what we've done. Stop and think about what you are saying. Even if they were thinking that, do you think they are just going to be hopping on a plane and blowing it up? Is it really that easy? Do they have the money to do that, and the knowledge? It seems to me you are buying into propaganda about al CIAda and their worldwide network of agents ready to lay down their lives to strike at the heart of the great Satan.

Second is your belief that airlines are the best way to inflict damage. There is simply no way to protect any entire country the size of the U.S., or any country, for that matter. Just look under you sink at the various cleaning supplies you have. Many of them give virtual instructions for using them as weapons by telling you what not to mix them with. I imagine a smallish bomb set off on a bridge during rush hour would cause more damage than a hijacked airplane. The beauty (in terms of the PTB) of hilighting airport "security" is that is sounds so impressive and scary. It's a great emotional trigger to get people worked up. And when people are emotionally worked up, they don't think straight.

Third, and perhaps most important: Joe did NOT completely dispel any need for airport security. It seems to me your thinking on that is a classic example of emotions overtaking reason. Joe talked about increasingly draconian laws and you respond as if he were against any laws at all.
 
Erna said:
So I get confused when you completely dispel any necessity for Airport security, when we know there are victims in the Middle East who would love to see some pay back.
The “necessity for Airport security" implies the need for this security. It’s this ‘need’ that becomes its own necessity divorced of any real, actual, real world threats coming from the Iraqi people. The real actual threats come from those who ‘protect’ us who supply us with this security because of a manufactured need that they create.

Also, ask yourself, why have there not been other terror events that are much easier then by airplanes? You have, for example, trucks. Look around you. Everything you see around you is delivered by trucks. I mean EVERYTHING. No trucks means no goods. Why just airport security? Does it really have anything to do with "terrorism" at all?
 
My question is still not answered, but let me respond to your remarks so long.

Cyre2067 said:
I thought he was when he dropped the link to the UK Report....
These 2 links point out conflicting arguments as to whether the hightened security is putting people in more danger or actually making them safer, that's all. I know Joe's post is about the conflicting articles, it was the end of Joe's post that my question is about.

allen said:
First your assumption that Muslims, or even just Iraqis, would be out to inflict damage on the U.S.
Okay, let's assume I am wrong in thinking that there might exist individuals that mean the US harm. You are still missing my point.

allen said:
Second is your belief that airlines are the best way to inflict damage.
I didn't say anywhere that I believe airlines are the best way to inflict damage. The links talk about rail, bus, airline and port security, I just referred to Airport security 'only' since I assumed we would be on the same page without me elaborating on all the transit areas under discussion.

allen said:
Many of them give virtual instructions for using them as weapons....
My question is not about all the possible ways to inflict damage on another individual.

allen said:
Joe did NOT completely dispel any need for airport security. It seems to me your thinking on that is a classic example of emotions overtaking reason. Joe talked about increasingly draconian laws and you respond as if he were against any laws at all.
Yes, that statement of mine didn't come out as I intended. However, Joe did imply that the "increased draconian laws" that supposedly "protect us against terrorism" are put into place to achieve some other sinister agenda.

And THAT was what my question was about. I wanted him to elaborate on that, since I'm having difficulty understanding how increased security could achieve some or other agenda.

kenlee said:
The real actual threats come from those who ‘protect’ us who supply us with this security because of a manufactured need that they create.
I understand, but please explain to me how our manufactured need for them to protect us, and in turn their response with more and more security......mmm, okay, I get it. I think. It's still a long leap for me though, and that's why I wanted Joe to clarify his...'theory'.
 
Erna said:
... since I'm having difficulty understanding how increased security could achieve some or other agenda.
If you read "increased security" as double-speak for "increased control", you might see what Joe is getting at.

Such control over a nation is not increased security for the average human, but increased security for the survival and success of the pathocracy, and in turn the psychopaths that operate within.
 
Hi Nathan, can you provide a link to this article. I did a search but I can't find it.

I assumed that Joe was referring to all the measures put into place to ensure a fascist state, but I wanted to start a discussion / thought process as to why he believes that this particular measure (airport security) is furthering that goal.

When one understands something and it makes sense, then a lot of other things start making sense and taking shape simultaneously. So if I can understand what these measures would accomplish, then I can move forward in my understanding of this whole matter.

I have mentioned this a while ago, but I will say it again. When I relay information on this site to others, I get the why's a lot. And if I myself is unable to make sense as to what exactly these measures accomplish, how can I possibly make someone else grasp the concept.
 
the war on terror is just an updated version of the 'protection racket' the mafia employs.

the people you pay for protection are the same ones that beat you up/destroy your store if you don't pay up (or do what they tell you to).
 
kenlee said:
Erna said:
So I get confused when you completely dispel any necessity for Airport security, when we know there are victims in the Middle East who would love to see some pay back.
The “necessity for Airport security" implies the need for this security. It’s this ‘need’ that becomes its own necessity divorced of any real, actual, real world threats coming from the Iraqi people. The real actual threats come from those who ‘protect’ us who supply us with this security because of a manufactured need that they create.

Also, ask yourself, why have there not been other terror events that are much easier then by airplanes? You have, for example, trucks. Look around you. Everything you see around you is delivered by trucks. I mean EVERYTHING. No trucks means no goods. Why just airport security? Does it really have anything to do with "terrorism" at all?
They are always pushing the idea of more security, yet we have an open border where people have been sneaking through. What prevents these "terrorists" from coming through those borders? I think Joe was basically saying how they are focusing on the airports as a false sense of security. Never mind the risk that comes about having huge groups of people waiting to go through security checks!
 
Erna said:
I assumed that Joe was referring to all the measures put into place to ensure a fascist state, but I wanted to start a discussion / thought process as to why he believes that this particular measure (airport security) is furthering that goal.

When one understands something and it makes sense, then a lot of other things start making sense and taking shape simultaneously. So if I can understand what these measures would accomplish, then I can move forward in my understanding of this whole matter.

I have mentioned this a while ago, but I will say it again. When I relay information on this site to others, I get the why's a lot. And if I myself is unable to make sense as to what exactly these measures accomplish, how can I possibly make someone else grasp the concept.
lots of security implies the reality of a threat, the implication of the reality of a threat creates fear among the population, fear among the population breeds a knee-jerk emotional-based dependence on authority to protect them from the threat, and this dependency then inhibits the tendency for independent and logical thought among the people. Because when you have made the decision that you depend on someone else for your physical safety, you tend to do what they say, or let them do the thinking for you.

This is the goal of increased security measures.

This situation creates a feedback loop, where the inducing of this dependency on the state for protection then feeds the reality of "the terror threat" in the minds of the people because they are unable to think logically about the practical aspects of the reality of the terror threat.

As Allen suggested, with the highly 'securitised' situation in Western nations at present, it would be very very difficult for any real terrorist organisation to actually carry out an effective attack. Police are literally everywhere, the UK has literally millions of CCTV cameras around the nation, and other Euro nations are moving in the same direction. Not only is the terrorists' ability to carry out an attack seriously curtailed at the site of any potential terror attack, but the extent to which Western governments currently control many supposedly "terrorist harboring" nations via finances and the proliferation of weapons, means that "terrorists" are also seriously curtailed at the planning stage.

There is also the logical deduction that it is extremely counter-productive for any "terrorist" organisation to attack innocent civilians of any nation.

Every real terrorist organisation over the years has been fully aware of this and has ultimately included it as a central aspect of their strategy. Those "terrorist" organisations that did attempt to indirectly attack an enemy government by killing innocent civilians believing that such attacks would cause the people to turn on their own government and ask "what did you (our government) do to these people to make them attack us?" quickly realised that this does not work in practice because, in a state of trauma such as that following a mass casualty attack, people want revenge, they do not want to think.

Such "terror" attacks on civilians therefore have always been a gift to governments because it immediately places the population behind a war-mongering government. It is logical to conclude therefore that terror attacks on civilians serve one of the core agendas of governments - to wage war - not that of "terrorists" who generally only exist as a response to the very same wars (of colonisation) waged by governments. Of course, it is natural that governments would want to reverse this and posit the "terrorists" as the force that emerged out of nothing and against which governments fight. The reality is in fact exactly the opposite, and the "force" that emerged out of nowhere (so to speak) and needs nothing other than the existence of "prey" in order for it to act, is not "terrorists" but psychopaths. All other actual resistance groups (aka "terrorists") are a response to this force, whether they know it or not (most do not).

None of these details about the origin or likelihood of the reality of "terrorism" as presented by Western governments are likely to ever enter the minds of the people however, primarily because of the fear-based, blind dependency on the dictates of the state, that is encouraged by way of the spreading of the fear of the "reality" of terrorism by the state in the first place. This "reality" however, is not real at all.

So essentially, as long as the "reality" of fake terrorism can be manufactured in the minds of the people, there is no reason to believe that the people will ever question that reality. Basically, as long as it exists in the mind of the people it is a "reality".

It was to this strategy, I believe, that the unnamed Neocon was referring last year when he said (as quoted by NY Times journalist Ron Suskind):

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/magazine/17BUSH.html?ex=1255665600en=890a96189e162076ei=5090

[...] he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency.

The aide said that guys like me were ''in what we call the reality-based community,'' which he defined as people who ''believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.'' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. ''That's not the way the world really works anymore,'' he continued. ''We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.''
The judicious studying of the discernible reality of "Islamic terrorism" proves it to be not real at all. This is why the unnamed Neocon stated that "that's not the way the world really works anymore", because they cannot have ordinary people judiciously studying reality and coming to this conclusion. The solution to this problem, from the Neocon point of view, is to create a "reality" that, while bearing no resemblance to actual reality, nevertheless becomes THE reality because it is effectively manufactured in and propped up by the "belief center" of the general population, and this belief is a result of government fear-based propaganda about the "reality of Islamic terrorism", the "evidence" for which is provided by the existence of "increased security", which IS judiciously discernible.

People are terrified into believing that "Islamic terrorism" exists and as a result they are rendered incapable of questioning the reality of that which they have been forced to believe.

It's a trap, a virtual prison for the masses, the very substance of which consists of the credulousness of the people themselves.

All in all, we find ourselves in a bit of a quandary, to put it mildly. The only thing we can do it seems, is to strive to get the real reality of the situation firmly embedded in our brains. From there, we can have some hope of helping others to do the same. As long as our ability to see and think logically remains infected with this type of reversal of reality and double/triple think however, we will be no good to anyone, least of all ourselves.

Joe
 
Erna said:
So I do think that the security is necessary. If I was an Iraqi, I would most likely be involved in a plot to inflict damage on the US.
Hi Erna,
The Arabs, Iraqis, Iranians, Palestinians (from those I know) really don't have a problem with the US. Many of them are better educated than we are here in the states, even if they are living below the poverty level. Too many of them see through the sham that our government is putting us through, and have made many of the same observations that we have here on the forum.

As far as fanatics go, I would wager that there are more Xtian fundy fascists here IN this country than Iraqi's or Moslems outside the country trying to get at us. And look at what they've done. Is it really any better? Like Christianity, the Moslem fanatics take their good book totally out of context as well. I think I would worry more about those fundies who live here than Moslems outside of the country.

And don't think for one minute that many of them are not educated about Christianity. Many Moslems are as familiar with the Christian bible as they are with their own Koran.

Erna said:
So I get confused when you completely dispel any necessity for Airport security, when we know there are victims in the Middle East who would love to see some pay back.
IMO< it's called "Conditioning". The trend I've noticed is that anytime they start something like this, it's carried out over a couple of generations. I believe this one started with the dumbing down of US citizens while still in elementary school. If you compare what we learn here by 4th or 5th grade, it's light years behind what Arab Moslem students are learning. In some cases, they're up to calculus and trigonometry at about the same level where we're hitting middle school here.

So this generation sees the tightening of the noose. And as long as everyone sleeps, who's going to point it out to the next generation?

Peg
 
Okay, now I understand. Thanks Joe.

mudrabbit, you're probably right. God knows what 'I' would be capable of if someone harms 'my' loved ones, and that's what I'm using as a point of reference to try and imagine what goes through the average Iraqi's mind.
 
Erna said:
Okay, now I understand. Thanks Joe.

mudrabbit, you're probably right. God knows what 'I' would be capable of if someone harms 'my' loved ones, and that's what I'm using as a point of reference to try and imagine what goes through the average Iraqi's mind.
Yeah but "we" are not harming them - our military, our government is. This is who they are fighting, and they know this. They also know that to do anything like a terrorist attack in US would *exponentially* increase their pain and suffering. And they know that our own ability to hold our government back would instantly disappear (not that it exists at all, but many people who at least complain and protest would suddenly stop doing that too), as the rest of our "freedoms on paper" are wiped off. Anybody who blows anything up in US as "revenge" would have to be a mind-controlled dummy. And mind-controlled dummies do not have autonomy, they are controlled by those who do know what they are doing, which inevitably leads us back to those who benefits from such a thing - which would be the ones "controlling the dummies".

Having said that, do you realize how ridiculously easy it is to do a terrorist attack anywhere else BUT an airplane/airport? We have insane mafia/organized crime operations in US that are stacked to the teeth with explosives and weapons. But you don't see them blowing random things up, despite their ability to do so with their eyes closed. That is because they are not stupid, they know this will only seriously hurt them and their business operations. That's not what they care about. However, as you know, most malls and stores and other public places are completely unsecured. Having a one or 2 fat cops stand around eating donuts is not actually security, that's laughable to the extreme. So while these *idiots* (because it is exactly that, idiotic from any security perspective, but we know they are not idiots in reality, so the only conclusion is that the motive is something else entirely as Joe says) are obsessed with securing their airports, anybody who really wanted to can easily acquire explosives and automatic weapons (and I'm talking EASILY, all you need is to go to the right neighborhood, there's kids walking around with guns literally everywhere). Then they could march right into any of the millions of unsecured public places and take out hundreds or thousands of people. There are publicly available recipes to make bombs for crying out loud, with all the ingredients being sold on the streets if you just care enough to look.

And they don't need to "fly into this country" with bombs, all the money and all the bombs are already in this country. So securing airports is ridiculously silly in the extreme - it does absolutely nothing to protect us *at all*, since we're completely vulnerable 99.9999% of the time everywhere else inside the country. And yet, nothing is blown up in years! That only means nobody wants to do it, if anybody wanted to at all, it would've already been done - over and over and over. Anybody with a head on their shoulders knows how stupid and absolutely self-annihilating such an action would be - the only people who would benefit would be the government, and that's it! Well, except your occasional greenbaum, they tend to "go off" on occasion. So when you see things blowing up all of a sudden after hundreds of years of nothing happening, you can rest assured that it is simply our own fearless leaders carrying out their plans, which are nicely outlined in books like "911 The Ultimate Truth" and "Secret History of the World".

Seriously, I mean if the terrorists are everywhere with this evil ideology, where have they been throughout the entire history of humanity anyway? They just show up in 2001 out of the blue and we're supposed to believe they've been around forever? And the one time they actually completely miraculously with cooperation of our government and military blew up something major, it totally backfired against them and ended up in their countries and everything else they hold dear being wasted, along with all our freedoms - and WE, the people of US, are the only thing that could possibly ever stop our own government! So by doing something like 911 they just killed their own possible salvation - the people themselves. And after ALL THAT they they went through on 911 they just empowered the very enemy they hate, and hurt themselves immeasurably? We're expected to look at all that and nod like it isn't the most retarded, ridiculous, stupid, absurd, and full of holes story anybody could come up with? Even a movie with such a plot wouldn't sell because it's much too unrealistic, people are used to Hollywood as it is, but this is just pushing it even for Hollywood. And we're supposed to pretend it's actually real. Right...
 
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