Fighting Against Panic Attacks

[COINTELPRO THIS]

I am inspired to give this account of my experiences with panic attacks after listening to the podcast of LKJ in a confrontation with a "demon" (for lack of a better term). I hope that others who may be subjected to these attacks will be encouraged by my experience.

I'm talking about the kind of courage that will have you standing face to face with something so frightening, you will feel like you are fighting for your life. If you've ever had a panic attack you know what I mean. You are dangling on a thread over an abyss whose name is eternity. Courage? I know. You can barely stay conscious. Here's what happened to me...

I suffered my first panic attack in 1976. I was walking to a restaurant with a friend on sunny afternoon and when we got to the door I was overcome by a sort of vertigo. I felt a rushing feeling in my mind (not my body) and I was being pulled out of my senses. Suddenly I felt terrified like never before. It was more than a sense of death. It was a sense of perdition. It was so severe we went back to the car and drove to the hospital. I thought I was having a heart attack. (I was very young)

I sat on the steps outside the emergency room as the world slowly came back into focus and I was once again oriented.

These attacks continued for 11 years and then ONE DAY in 1987 I decided to fight back. I'm not saying this is the answer for everyone who suffers from these psychic attacks. I never saw a doctor, never took any medication. If you are on that path of conventional means then Don't Try This At Home.

I was sitting in my living room in 1987, minding my own business when terror came a'calling. If you've had these attacks, you know how they start. It's a sort of rushing/whirling sensation. I thought to myself, "I'm not going to live like this anymore. Enough already!"

I moved myself into an offensive position. I physically stood on my feet. I beckoned whatever it was to BRING IT ON. "Death? Go ahead! Kill me! I'm not running away from you! I'm not afraid! F#@& YOU!!....

This bizaare scenario went on for about 30 minutes. I wasn't afraid. I was angry. I was furious that this whatever-it-was was yanking me around for 11 years. I truly didn't care if I lived or died. If this was the most evil force in the world then so be it. "You'll have to pry my soul from my cold, dead hands. Otherwise, I'm not letting go."

And there it is. I haven't had one single panic attack since that day. That was twenty years ago.

Where do panic attacks come from? To this day, I have no idea.

 

[Color]

I am inspired to give this account of my experiences with panic attacks after listening to the podcast of LKJ in a confrontation with a "demon" (for lack of a better term).

Not sure of which one exactly are you talking about, can you please specify?

These attacks continued for 11 years and then ONE DAY in 1987 I decided to fight back. I'm not saying this is the answer for everyone who suffers from these psychic attacks. I never saw a doctor, never took any medication. If you are on that path of conventional means then Don't Try This At Home.

I am sorry but I'm confused here... This brings up a few questions about it:

1) 11 years? If you said how deciding to fight back 'ONE DAY', after 11 years, what were you doing about it for 11 years? You obviously never tried to get any help from official medicine, as you clearly stated. So, how were you dealing with it? You never tried to fight it back before? Or you did but not with the mentioned courage and anger? Then what ways were you fighting it? Or you just let it be for 11 years? Or you tried fighting it back but didn't succeed? If so, how and why do you think it didn't work before, but did later? Can you understand my confusion here? Please can you explain that a bit more, thank you...

2) If you are talking about a podcast where Laura was discussing her attachment-release experiences and that is what you emphasized as "demon", please make that clear, then what way do you find it connected with your experience? I didn't find any explanation about that within your post, so wondering...

I thought to myself, "I'm not going to live like this anymore. Enough already!"

I moved myself into an offensive position. I physically stood on my feet. I beckoned whatever it was to BRING IT ON. "Death? Go ahead! Kill me! I'm not running away from you! I'm not afraid! F#@& YOU!!...

I have read few threads, here on the forum, discussing the anger issue, as far as using it as a valuable tool in dealing with certain emotional states and not necessarily being a 'wrong' emotion... I'll look up, if having time, and will put links for it here, if interested - you may look it up yourself.

Also, you may find this story interesting: http://home.comcast.net/~riversrages/DeepTherapy/chapter1.htm
The author posted a link to it before, here on the forum, so I think it's ok to give it, since Laura also commented at it as an interesting reading. I've read it in one breath and believe you may find some interesting parallels with what you're saying here.

I've read your earlier posts on 'red pill' and few people were suggesting you to check more on dissociative behaver issue and although it may not be the case with you, I find many interesting connections with each new post you make, so please check it out, for better info. This link above is a great inside story of dynamic of such a state and 'anger part'..

edit: forum-link:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=7197
instead of the forum thread, this is direct link to the point:
http://quantumfuture.net/qfs/qfs_on_lying.htm

 

[Ryan]

CT, what "Law" are you referring to in your title? The obvious implication is some kind of law enforcement organization, and this context is not relevant based on the rest of your post. I've edited the topic to reflect more objectively what you are describing, which is just a panic attack. Not sure why you've put it in the "PSI" forum, either, so I've moved it. Other than that, Color makes some very good points and suggestions.

 

[COINTELPRO THIS]

Not sure of which one exactly are you talking about, can you please specify?

Yes. I am referring to "Channeling and Exorcism Part 2". LKJ is apparently dealing with something which has a will of its own, apart from the subject. Calling upon angels and invitations to 'go to the light' are ineffective. Eventually, it came down to a battle of wills.

...11 years?

Yes. 11 years. This was not a daily occurrence. I would go for months sometimes with no panic attacks at all.

I never tried to get any help from official medicine because I didn't see it as a medical condition. I saw it as a spiritual condition. Because I was, at that time, a bible-believing, hell fire and damnation fearing Christian, I honestly thought it was 'the devil'. So I didn't go to the doctors. I went to the church people who assured me that Jesus, and only Jesus, could save me from these attacks. Which may explain the 11 years of failure.

I was dealing with it from a position of weakness. The devil was stronger than me, and Jesus was stronger than the devil. If I could get Jesus on my side I'd be safe from the tauntings of satan. Every panic attack was like a confirmation that Jesus was not hearing my prayers. That I was lost. Beyond redemption. A reprobate. All these other Christians were safe in the Everlasting Arms, and I was left to fend for myself because god did not want to help me. This is what I believed. That I was not a 'real' Christian. I spent 11 years praying for the faith I was so clearly lacking.

For me, the panic attacks came out of left field. They were not preceeded by any particular circumstance, or environment, or state of mind. Because I could not view these attacks as a result of something in my experience, I assumed they were being visited upon me, so to speak. The experience is so frightening you feel like you're in the presence of pure evil. There are no hallucinations. You don't see or hear anything. It's just a mind-numbing sensation of impending death.

The ONE DAY in 1987 was the day I took Jesus out of the equation and decided I would fight this fear myself. It's like standing up to a bully. All you have is your anger and determination to 'not be afraid'.

Did I defeat some kind of demon? I doubt it. That's why I put the word "demon" in quotes. I really don't know exactly what I was dealing with. I no longer believe in the heaven, hell, god, devil fairy tale. I do know that I haven't had a panic attack since that day.

I hope I have answered your questions. I will look at the information in your links.


Ryan - My reference to "the law" was vague. I think people don't look inside themselves for answers. They want pills and therapy and religion. The 'law' is a just my own word for The Establishment (medical and religious) which considers itself the ultimate authority on things of this nature. Your title is better.

I placed the topic is PSI because that's where I thought it would fit.

 

[j0da]

Hey CT. I also think you might benefit from reading that short book which Color suggested. Reading your posts and seeing on what issues/topics you focus your attention I think you could use some "official" medical/psychological knowledge which you have neglected for so long. Doing this might demystify certain things and leave much energy at your disposal.

Since those paranormal occurences are very elusive and often misleading it's good to get a firm grip on scientificly known phenomena first in order to rule out psychological issues.

 

[RML]

For many years, I too suffered from Panic Attacks, had two nervous breakdowns . . . having to squeeze the steering-wheel with such force just to stay conscious. Then, I found an interesting book, NUTRITION AND YOUR MIND, by Dr. George Watson. It was based on his studies of biochemical causes for schizophrenia. The study determined that more than 85% of acute mental disorder had a biochemical basis.

For years, I knew that I suffered from low blood sugar. When acute, the symptoms were exactly like anxiety attacks. Tried all the drugs -- legal and otherwise. Nothing worked ... until I "discovered" the wonders of Brewer's Yeast (wonder why beer is so relaxing??), which contained the full array of B Complex. Liquid B-Complex works as well, but not as powerfully as the old Brewer's Yeast. It's hard to find now because of all the yeast infection nonsense. But, please go to a healthfood store and buy liquid B-Complex. Sip it throughout the day, and watch your reactions.

(Beloved) Coffee makes it worse, as does lack of sleep and not eating protein. Balance your blood sugar, and I guarantee that your anxiety attacks will diminish to the point that you will no longer dread them. And when they do happen, you can rightly tell yourself that this incredibly overwhelming situation is only biochemical, and that you are not dying, you are not going crazy.

Good luck to you.

 

[Renaissance]

Balance your blood sugar, and I guarantee that your anxiety attacks will diminish to the point that you will no longer dread them. And when they do happen, you can rightly tell yourself that this incredibly overwhelming situation is only biochemical, and that you are not dying, you are not going crazy.

The effects of pathological systems can produce anxiety as well. And so this kind of anxiety seems to be a good thing. In Dabrowski's Theory of Positive Disintegration he posits that nervousness, frustration, and forms of neurosis are healthy signs of rapid development. The Restin Wells' story that Color posted provides a personal narrative of utilizing these inner emotional and instinctive communications to develop lower emotions and instincts into higher ones. And Dabrowski provides the nuts and bolts on how this works.

 

[Telperion]

Hmmm, interesting - I have experienced this usually when I was under some type of stress. There is most certainly a fear that grips you but you're right, you have to fight it. Moving around and deep concentrated breathing helped me, but I haven't had a panic attack or anything similar in over two years.

 

[aaronfransen]

This is very interesting information. I've struggled with panic attacks for years as well. In fact, right at this bloody moment, hence the reason I found this post!

I've been paleo for a few years, and a diagnosed type II diabetic for many before that, so the bit about low blood sugar is interesting. Have to dig into the vitamin B thing.

All I can say is that these panic attacks SUCK. You feel like you're dying. Sometimes it's accompanied by vertigo, sometimes not, but it's freaking terrifying. I find the best way out sometimes is to stay busy or be around other people. This may sound pathetic, but thank the heavens my wife is around at times like this. She struggles with it because she doesn't know what to do to help me, but I keep explaining to her that just having her around helps.

Anyway, just talking (typing?) about it seems to help too ;D

 

[Alana]

Lost Spirit, it is a horrible experience and it is very hard to explain how it feels to someone who never experienced it. Have you tried doing some pipe-breathing when you feel the early symptoms of the attack? If you are not familiar with the Eiriu Eoras program you can learn about it here. In the first intro video Laura teaches pipe breathing.

Panic attacks are the result of the activation of the sympathetic (fight-or-flight) nervous system, and pipe breathing activates the parasympathetic nervous system, which puts us in a state of relaxation and internal homeostasis via the stimulation of the vagus nerve. If you keep doing pipe breathing every night along with the meditation part of the program, you will stop having the panic attacks altogether. For the time being, skip the Beaha/Bioenergetic breathing until you feel in control of these attacks. I remember when I used to have them, sometimes the anticipation that this horrible feeling with appear out of nowhere, would cause more anxiety, thus more attacks. If you have a "weapon", like pipe-breathing, against them, your anxiety also starts to drop in general and everyday living becomes more manageable again.

I also see that you are in Alberta. There are Eiriu Eolas classes offered at the Strathcona Library in Edmonton once a month, if you (and your wife) are ever in the area. Check this thread out. There's one coming up on April 27.

 

[aaronfransen]

Actually yeah, I've done the pipe breathing for over a year now and it does really help :)

A little far from Edmonton, but if there's ever anything in the Calgary area I'd be interested!

 

[Alana]

Actually yeah, I've done the pipe breathing for over a year now and it does really help :)

I am glad to hear :)

A little far from Edmonton, but if there's ever anything in the Calgary area I'd be interested!

No plans for Calgary at the moment, but there will be a post on the forum if it happens.
I chuckled when I read your reply because we drive for 5 hours to Edmonton once a month for the EE meetings. I guess distance is in the eye of the beholder

 

[Torstone]

Was considering posting this on the psychology and cognitive science board, but since a thread about this subject already exists I think I might as well post it here :) .

One of the most obvious occasions where the unconscious won`t play ball with me is in classroom or group like situations where I am either forced to speak or want to. This has usually resulted in a high state of panic. What boggled my mind was that I was not consciously afraid at all. When the panic comes into play, this picture changes completely, the unconscious tries all it can to stop me from feeling confident and in control about what I am about to do.

The idea of the panic response as being the result of an internal learned trigger (conditioned stimuli) gave me some important clues to why I might have this reaction. Maybe this can help others in similar situations:

Jospeh Ledoux – The emotional brain

Panic attacks are most commonly diagnosed anxiety disorder.
They are similar to phobic and PTSD reactions in the sense that the patient suffers from strong emotional arousal, including intense activation of the sympathetic nervous system. However, while phobic and PTSD responses occur in the presence of external stimuli, panic attacks appears to be more related to internal stimuli. And because panic involves internal events, it is especially difficult for the person to avoid the stimuli that brings it on. Panic patients thus differ in this respect from patients with PTSD and phobia, who engage in extensive avoidance behavior.

A panic attack can be induced by having the patient hyperventilate or inhale a gaseous mixture rich in carbon dioxide, or giving the patient and intravenous injection of sodium lactate. These procedures give rise to internal signals(bodily sensations) similar to those that are typically present during a naturally occurring attack. Panic can also be induced by the provision of false feedback about the rate at which the heart is beating, making the patient believe that heightened bodily arousal is occurring when it is not. The belief that panic is occurring may be an important link in the chain of events that tie together the occurrence of bodily sensations and full-blown panic.

One common view is that artificial panic induction procedures lead to bodily sensations that then serve as conditioned stimuli. Having experienced panic before, the patient learns the warning signs. When these internal signals occur(even when artificially induced) the patient feels that panic is starting. This cognitive appraisal of bodily sensations then drives the system into panic. Induced panic, and presumably natural panic, by this way of thinking, is a conditioned response to internal stimuli that occurred during past panic attacks. It has been argued that these internal sensations might be prepared stimuli, thus further linking panic and phobia and their underlying mechanisms. Support for the preparedness of such internal stimuli comes from Donald Klein`s theory that panic represents the activation of an evolutionary old suffocating alarm system.

The most complete conditioning theory of panic has been developed by Wolpe. He has argued that the first panic attack is the result of experiencing the consequences of hyperventilation, which increases the carbon dioxide in the lungs and blood and results in a variety of unpleasant bodily sensations(dizziness, racing heart, the feeling of suffocation). The hyperventilation can arise for a variety of reasons. Certain drugs like cocaine, amphetamine, or LSD, or exposure to toxic chemicals in the workplace can be the cause. However, according to Wolpe, most often panic occurs in persons who are particularly anxious and worried and who have been under a lot of stress. One study cited by Wolpe found that severe marital conflict occurred during the year before the first panic attack in 84 percent of the patients surveyed, emphasizing again that cognitive factors can lift anxiety over the threshold.

According to Wolpe, the cause of the first panic attack is not important. It can be organic or psychological. Regardless, once panic occurs, the stimuli that happen to be present at the time will become conditioned fear stimuli. But unlike typical fear conditioning situations, the critical stimuli are internal rather than external. For example, an elevation of blood pressure that occurs in response to hyperventilation might become a conditioned fear stimulus. If blood pressure happens to increase for some other reason, such as talking to a superior or being in some other socially tense situation, the noxious sensations previously elicited by hyperventilation, having been conditioned to increase in blood pressure levels, are now brought on. These sensations are then noticed and interpreted as indicative of the onset of panic attack. In contrast, the CS (elevation of blood pressure) is not easily noticed (high blood pressure is in fact sometimes called the “silent killer”), and the panic appears to be spontaneous. External stimuli can also become conditioned panic stimuli. If the first panic occurred in a car, then being in cars may make it more likely that panic will occur there. Nevertheless, in Wolpe`s model, the internal stimuli may play the leading role.

The highlighted pars are identical to my situation, and for me the panic attack occurs right before and when speaking: blood pressure raising dramatically, increased blood flow to the face, feeling clammy and cold at the same time, difficulty breathing and speaking at the same time, losing the words and feeling a loss of control.

I think this response was learned while I was in high school. Involving a teacher using scare tactics and humiliation if question answered was wrong and this has been following me into similar settings where I did not expect the panic to occur. The thing that hit me as well was that it really did not take much before this reaction was learned, and I kind of expected it to be a bigger reason as to why I experienced this.

After learning more about it and tracing the reaction, the frequency has diminished and I have not experienced it for some time now.
I do not think it has completely disappeared, as the probability for a reaction most likely increases with the novelty of the situation and surroundings. But its not so much a nuisance as it was before thanks to the information above.

Using EE-breathing to exert more control on the vagal brake also seems to help along with other breath control exercises like reading aloud.