First steps, ..., perhaps!?

Green_Manalishi

Jedi Master
Hi everyone.

I would like to try to discuss and tie a couple different subjects. I do not know if I will be able to express myself correctly, since I think I have a hard time making a coherent text when I try to convey my ideas, opinions, etc.. This is among the chief causes that keeps me from posting more in this forum, because it really takes me a fair amount of energy to try and make a comprehensible text. That and the idea that most of the times I really don't have anything of value to add to a certain discussion.

Recently I continued to read “In search of the Miraculous”, after a hiatus of three months (between I reed other stuff). The ideas that I paid most attention, this time around, were the ones connected with self-observation and self-remembering and special heighten emotional states, as opposed to the explanation of cosmoses and ray of creation (which I can't really get my head around).

Then when I had a training on my company, me and my job co-workers all sat there listening to a guy talking. That was when two situations present to myself. The first was when the trainer asked me if I liked his tie (I don't even remember related to what, but in a break the ice fashion). The tie had a couple of sea manatees drawn on it. I liked it, it had a peaceful aquatic mammal drawn on it, was out of the ordinary, different. I made an awkward face and said half laughing, “not really”. I only responded that because I was certain that, that was the majority of the opinions in the room. My own thinking process was completely taken away from me in seconds in order to conform to the norm, something that I don't make much effort to do.

The other situation was when the trainer asked for the shortest and tallest person to stand up. He said it would be a close call between me and another of my co-workers. I responded jokingly that it might be my co-worker that was shorter, and immediately after that, I mean seconds, the real cause for me saying that popped in my mind – I didn't want to be considered the shortest person in the room. How sad and stupid is that kind of mentality, I really felt almost disgusted in my own skin. They were so childish, this two reactions of mine.

My main questions are, could it be that just by reading the book, that knowledge sipped into my mind and, this way I was able to see those two faults? I ask this because, as you know, Gurdjieff always stated that nothing can be achieved without the company and guidance of someone who “is” more than you. Or this kind of observations of our machine are really a little speak of the amount of work that the Work is, and can be more or less apprehended just by reading the concepts of the 4th way?

And know I feel that I can spot better this little and pathetic I, and kind of lock him in a cage, but beyond that I don't known what to do with it.
 
Hi Green_Manalishi.

Green_Manalishi said:
My main questions are, could it be that just by reading the book, that knowledge sipped into my mind and, this way I was able to see those two faults?

Don't know about 'knowledge sipping into your mind' and making one to see. But I, too, experienced a heigthened 'present-in-the-moment-awareness' when I read that book. I'd think it's to do with focus. The topic is still fresh and present within your mind, and maybe it's also to do with something inside resonating with that specific material - as in, the real part of you 'responds'.


Green_Manalishi said:
And know I feel that I can spot better this little and pathetic I, and kind of lock him in a cage, but beyond that I don't known what to do with it.

I can relate a lot. I've often asked myself 'Okay, what do I do with this? I'm seeing this, well, swell, and what now?'.
What I've learned telling myself is to keep going, keep observing, try to see a little more each time. With the intent of getting to know my machine inside and out. The more knowledge I have about my machine's set-up, the greater the probability, that next time, I'll catch that program earlier, and maybe even so early, that I can completely hinder it from acting out through me.
I think it's quite a pain to be recognizing that a program has run oneself, but recognizing it only after the fact, so that you cannot anymore change anything about the situation. So, onwards it goes.

That is, simply locking it in a cage won't do, because you need to know the mechanics of it, the triggers, the reasons, the entire process of how the false personality is operating. Locking it in a cage is like suppressing it without knowing what exactly it is you're putting away. And the thing is, it keeps coming back with the next fitting situation/trigger. So basically, you just note it down e.g. in a journal, and you just keep adding what you see into that journal. And over time, you might be able to connect some dots, have insights, the picture gets clearer.

So I'd say keep it up, Green_Manalishi. :)

Just my two cents.
 
Puzzle said:
The topic is still fresh and present within your mind, and maybe it's also to do with something inside resonating with that specific material - as in, the real part of you 'responds'.

I would go more with that some real part of me (if i do have one) responds, because i read about this same topics many times, and only now did i notice this. It really seems what they call little flashes of reality. And then we, or just i, lose it oh so rapidly :(.

Puzzle said:
That is, simply locking it in a cage won't do, because you need to know the mechanics of it, the triggers, the reasons, the entire process of how the false personality is operating. Locking it in a cage is like suppressing it without knowing what exactly it is you're putting away. And the thing is, it keeps coming back with the next fitting situation/trigger.

Yes, i guess so. What i was able to do was see and cage one aspect of one "i". Obviously there are a lot more manifestations of this "i". Lock him but still keep an eye on him, could we say this could be the task of the "House Master", the real I?
 
Green_Manalishi said:
Then when I had a training on my company, me and my job co-workers all sat there listening to a guy talking. That was when two situations present to myself. The first was when the trainer asked me if I liked his tie (I don't even remember related to what, but in a break the ice fashion). The tie had a couple of sea manatees drawn on it. I liked it, it had a peaceful aquatic mammal drawn on it, was out of the ordinary, different. I made an awkward face and said half laughing, “not really”. I only responded that because I was certain that, that was the majority of the opinions in the room. My own thinking process was completely taken away from me in seconds in order to conform to the norm, something that I don't make much effort to do.

The other situation was when the trainer asked for the shortest and tallest person to stand up. He said it would be a close call between me and another of my co-workers. I responded jokingly that it might be my co-worker that was shorter, and immediately after that, I mean seconds, the real cause for me saying that popped in my mind – I didn't want to be considered the shortest person in the room.
The first situation probably involved a fear of going against the majority opinion. A possible next step would be to ask "why"? Were there events in the past where you actually suffered when your views went against the views of others involved? If so, what were the details of such situations.
The second situation may involve some sense of shame or unworthiness for being short. The "why" question is relevant here too. Were there instances when you were made to feel unworthy for being short. If so, then recollecting the details of these situations will be useful.

[quote author=Green_Manalishi]
How sad and stupid is that kind of mentality, I really felt almost disgusted in my own skin. They were so childish, this two reactions of mine.
..................................

And know I feel that I can spot better this little and pathetic I, and kind of lock him in a cage, but beyond that I don't known what to do with it.
..........................................

[/quote]
You have discovered parts of yourself which are childlike - possibly feeling scared and unworthy. You have an internal judge who decided that these are stupid and pathetic - so just lock them up in a cage so that they cannot come back to disturb you.

[quote author=Green_Manalishi]
Lock him but still keep an eye on him, could we say this could be the task of the "House Master", the real I?
[/quote]
I would think that the seeds from which the real I could ultimately grow would look upon these scared and ashamed child parts of the psyche and feel compassion for their pain and try to lighten the burdens that these little "little i's" carry through understanding and knowledge it has gained as an adult.
Just to look at things from a different perspective, regarding the first situation where you did not say what you really meant, there was a part of you which reacted mechanically. But the intention of that "i" could have been to save you from possible pain/harm that could result from not agreeing with others. That "i" just did not have an objective view of the situation and may have reacted based on some traumatic past memory or social programming. Imagine a hypothetical situation where you are in the company of people who extol the virtues of some savior who would save anyone who believed in him and kill those who do not. Now one of these people ask you "what do you think of our savior". You know that speaking what you really felt would lead to big trouble. So the same little "i" could be called into play and you would agree to the view of the majority - and then off course run for the exit when no one is looking.
When a real I is formed, it could activate different parts of the psyche based on awareness and knowledge of the situation at hand instead of letting them run the show. In other words, the house master would use the right servants for appropriate tasks under appropriate circumstances. At least that is my current understanding.
fwiw
 
obyvatel said:
I would think that the seeds from which the real I could ultimately grow would look upon these scared and ashamed child parts of the psyche and feel compassion for their pain and try to lighten the burdens that these little "little i's" carry through understanding and knowledge it has gained as an adult.

Thanks for putting it so clearly, obyvatel. It helps seeing it more clearly and is a timely reminder.
 
Green_Manalishi said:
I would go more with that some real part of me (if i do have one) responds, because i read about this same topics many times, and only now did i notice this. It really seems what they call little flashes of reality. And then we, or just i, lose it oh so rapidly :(.

Don't worry, Green_Manalishi -- that's just how it goes: that we constantly fall back to sleep again, or even that we constantly sleep and just sometimes we can See something. But as has been often said on the forum: If you can see it one time, you'll be able to see it a second time. And thus, you go step by step by step. :)
 
Thanks for the replies.

obyvatel said:
The first situation probably involved a fear of going against the majority opinion. A possible next step would be to ask "why"? Were there events in the past where you actually suffered when your views went against the views of others involved? If so, what were the details of such situations.
The second situation may involve some sense of shame or unworthiness for being short. The "why" question is relevant here too. Were there instances when you were made to feel unworthy for being short. If so, then recollecting the details of these situations will be useful.

I can see the why in both situations. Most of my life my views were almost different from the views of others, i grew (or thought) up understanding and accepting that. The fact of being of short stature always made me the one everyone seemed to pick on, but then again i grew past that, i understand that.

obyvatel said:
there was a part of you which reacted mechanically.

Hum, perhaps the biggest conclusion from this would be more to see my own mechanical behaviour, and not these little i's that were understood and dealt with. My own mechanical ways in letting them out.


obyvatel said:
on some traumatic past memory or social programming

Most of the times they are the same, social programming is traumatizing, you either are, feel, think and act like everyone else or get picked on, made a foll, laughed at, ridiculed or just simply ignored, and thus gain a trauma in a bigger or lesser extent.


obyvatel said:
In other words, the house master would use the right servants for appropriate tasks under appropriate circumstances.

I would go a bit further and perhaps say that the Master should know how to imitate the servants, and impersonate them. They should be never be used again.
 

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