France Looks Into bin Laden Death Report

[Laura]

Sep 23
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060923/D8KAHRNG0.html

PARIS (AP) - The French defense ministry on Saturday called for an internal investigation of the leak of an intelligence document that raises the possibility that Osama bin Laden may have died of typhoid in Pakistan a month ago but said the report of the death remained unverified.

"The information defused this morning by the l'Est Republicain newspaper concerning the possible death of Osama bin Laden cannot be confirmed," a Defense Ministry statement said.

The daily newspaper for the Lorraine region in eastern France printed what it described as a confidential document from the French foreign intelligence service DGSE citing an uncorroborated report from Saudi secret services that the leader of the al-Qaida terror network had died.

The contents of the document, dated Sept. 21, or Thursday, were not confirmed by French or other intelligence sources. However, the DGSE transmitted the note to President Jacques Chirac and other officials, the newspaper said.

Defense Minister Michele Alliot-Marie "has demanded an investigation be carried out of this leak," a ministry statement said, adding that transmission of the confidential document could risk punishment.

Defense Ministry spokesman Jean-Francois Bureau, clarifying the statement, said that the DGSE document exists but that its contents - that bin Laden is allegedly dead - cannot be confirmed.

The DGSE, or Direction Generale des Services Exterieurs, indicated that its information came from a single source.

"According to a reliable source, Saudi security services are now convinced that Osama bin Laden is dead," said the intelligence report.

There have been periodic reports of bin Laden's illness or death in recent years but none has been proven accurate.

According to this document, Saudi security services were pursuing further details, notably the place of his burial.

"The chief of al-Qaida was a victim of a severe typhoid crisis while in Pakistan on August 23, 2006," the document says. His geographic isolation meant that medical assistance was impossible, the French report said, adding that his lower limbs were allegedly paralyzed. On Sept. 4, Saudi security services had their first information on bin Laden's alleged death, the unconfirmed document reported.

In Pakistan, a senior official of that country's top spy agency, the ISI or Directorate of Inter-Service Intelligence, said he had no information to confirm bin Laden's whereabouts or that he might be dead. The official said he believed the report could be fabricated. The official was not authorized to speak publicly on the topic and spoke on condition of anonymity.

U.S. Embassy officials in Pakistan and Afghanistan also said they could not confirm the French report.

 

[Alana]

Interesting. i followed the euronews.net link titled: Osama Bin Laden Dead? posted 5 hours ago, (ggogle search=bin laden dead, news first link) and now this comes out: http://euronews.net/create_html.php?page=detail_info&article=381319&lng=1
Error 404 - This page is not available anymore.

Other links work fine, and their news section does not even include it. http://euronews.net/create_html.php?page=accueil_info&lng=1
Perhaps it's not news unless confirmed?

A CBS news report posted 4 hours ago on the other hand, has no problem presenting speculations:

Bin Laden: Dead Or Alive?
CBS News: Arab Diplomats Discuss Reports Of Bin Laden's Death

KARACHI, Pakistan, Sept. 23, 2006

(CBS) This report was compiled by CBS's Farhan Bokhari in Karachi, Pakistan and CBS News correspondent Sheila MacVicar in London.

Osama bin Laden's health has deteriorated in the past year, forcing him to curtail his movements, according to Arab diplomats in Pakistan who routinely track reports of his movements.

A senior source with an intelligence service friendly to the United States told CBS News that Saudi Intelligence has collected what it considers to be "very credible information" that bin Laden has been very seriously ill, and that the Saudi services are now suggesting, though not confirming, that they "have a pretty high certainty" that he is dead.

The source added that if he has died as a result of typhoid fever, which comes from exposure to contaminated water and food, it would confirm reports that he has been hiding in a remote area, under very harsh conditions with limited access to medical care.

While Pakistani officials and diplomats stationed in the country on Saturday did not confirm a report in a French regional newspaper that claimed the world's most wanted terrorist had died of typhoid earlier this month, some spoke of reports in the past year suggesting that bin Laden's health had rapidly deteriorated, prompting speculation over his remaining life expectancy.

Time Magazine also reported that bin Laden "has become seriously ill and may have already died" from a "water-borne illness."

But U.S. sources are skeptical of the reports. A senior White house official tells CBS News White House correspondent Jim Axelrod, "I wouldn't hold your breath." French President Jacques Chirac said Saturday that the information is "in no way whatsoever confirmed."

"You should never say 'never,' but the source of the intelligence is not a very good one - Saudi intelligence can sometimes be an oxymoron," Michael Scheuer, who ran the CIA's bin Laden unit, said on the Saturday Early Show. "It almost sounds like between the French and the Saudis are trying to goad bin Laden into saying something to prove he is still alive."

One Arab diplomat who spoke to CBS News on the condition that his identity would not be revealed said there were fewer reports in 2006 of bin Laden's possible sightings around the border region between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

"In the past, sometimes with a delay of two to three days, you would
see reports which suggested he may be on the move somewhere, there have been fewer such reports this year," he said. "Does this mean, he is acutely ill, dying or has in fact died? There is no credible answer to that question. Unless there is a body, how can anyone say for sure that bin Laden is dead?"

The same diplomat said, bin Laden has had a history of illnesses that were first reported while the Taliban regime still ruled Afghanistan in 2000. One such report seen by the diplomat a year before the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, reported that bin Laden had to be hospitalized briefly in Kabul before he was brought to Pakistan for medical treatment, then believed to be a kidney-related ailment.

"If it is true that bin Laden had to have dialysis for his kidneys then - which is six years ago - his health must be far worse now. Especially the conditions that he lived in, being on the run from U.S. forces must also take its toll on him. I wouldn't be surprised if he is dead. Nobody is immortal," concluded the diplomat.

(CBS) Over the past 12 months, according to security and diplomatic sources in Pakistan and elsewhere, the Saudi services have greatly improved their intelligence gathering capacity, especially in southern Afghanistan, and the Pakistan border region.

The intelligence service source told CBS News that over the past weeks, a number of al Qaeda-linked figures left the Pakistan-Afghanistan region and returned to countries in the Arabian Gulf. Some of the returnees have been interrogated and provided important intelligence.

Another Arab diplomat said reports of bin Laden's death would have to be either confirmed if his body was found or through an official statement for there to be confirmation. "But if you look at just the history of the man, the probability of his survival for long is not that great," the second Arab diplomat said on similar condition of anonymity.

"At the end of the day, if bin Laden is dead, al Qaeda will announce it," Scheuer said on the Saturday Early Show.

CBS News has been told the Saudis themselves have been very careful to say that while they believe the intelligence they have is credible, it will be impossible to confirm bin Laden's death without either recovery of a body, or the arrests of al Qaeda figures and others who are known to have been with him.

One former Pakistani official with prior responsibility for security affairs said there was speculation among Pakistani intelligence officials that al Qaeda had already undergone a leadership transition which has seen Ayman Al-Zawahiri, the group's second highest ranking leader, emerge as the key decision maker.

"If you just track the number of al Qaeda videos which have come out in the public, you see Ayman Al-Zawahiri in there mostly. Does this mean, Osama bin Laden has been in semi-retirement for a while because of his deteriorating health? That's a question which is worth asking" he said.

Pakistani officials expressed complete ignorance of the classified memo published by the French newspaper, L'Est Republicain, circulated to the French President and other senior figures. Written on Sept. 21 by the DGSE, the French exterior intelligence service, the memo reports intelligence gathered by the Saudi services, under the headline "Saudis Moving Towards Conclusion Bin Laden is Dead."

The French government has declined to comment on the contents of the document, but the Minister of Defense has ordered an investigation into the leaking of classified documents.

The newspaper that ran the story is a well-respected regional daily, but the journalist who wrote it, however, is a crime reporter rather than a specialist in intelligence matters, reports CBS News correspondent Elaine Cobbe from Paris.

i: i don't understand much on journalism, and maybe the story is a hoax (i remember other bin Laden deaths since 2001) but does the above statement weights as to whether the report is valid or not? If a reporter gets some info about a story and he presents it, does it matter if he is specialized in another area? SOTT guys write on everything.

 

[vinny]

The newspaper that ran the story is a well-respected regional daily, but the journalist who wrote it, however, is a crime reporter rather than a specialist in intelligence matters, reports CBS News correspondent Elaine Cobbe from Paris.

i: i don't understand much on journalism, and maybe the story is a hoax (i remember other bin Laden deaths since 2001) but does the above statement weights as to whether the report is valid or not? If a reporter gets some info about a story and he presents it, does it matter if he is specialized in another area? SOTT guys write on everything.

looks like damage control to me. the reporter is immediately being 'devalued', ie "you don't want to listen to him, he know nothing about it"
even though, as you say, a reporter is a reporter. doesn't matter what the subject is. Still, after all that, we are suposedly relying on the second hand words of 'senior source with an intelligence service friendly to the United States' whatever the hell that means - it certainly doesn't instill me with confidence!

 

[Rich]

The newspaper that ran the story is a well-respected regional daily, but the journalist who wrote it, however, is a crime reporter rather than a specialist in intelligence matters, reports CBS News correspondent Elaine Cobbe from Paris.

i: i don't understand much on journalism, and maybe the story is a hoax (i remember other bin Laden deaths since 2001) but does the above statement weights as to whether the report is valid or not? If a reporter gets some info about a story and he presents it, does it matter if he is specialized in another area? SOTT guys write on everything.

I agree, it iseems irrelevant and subjective reporting since i think it highly unlikely that any regional daily newspaper would have a speciallist in intelligence matters anyway.

The French government has declined to comment on the contents of the document, but the Minister of Defense has ordered an investigation into the leaking of classified documents.

from my experience of reading UK press reporting on politics, the leaking of documents [and their consequent investigations that invariably lead nowhere] is a routine part of the spin machine, fuelling speculation and encouraging interest. You could say that the Neocons may well have been waiting for a better time [in terms of war plans and propaganda] to announce the death of Bin Laden, but it also represents an opportunity for them to increase discussion, add weight to hype, and continue the propaganda machine.

Does this mean, Osama bin Laden has been in semi-retirement for a while because of his deteriorating health? That's a question which is worth asking" he said.

Is that what happens when your physical body dies? you spend a while in 'semi-retirement' before the afterlife? ;)

 

[Hildegarda]

Wait ... the guy had multiple wounds, diabetes and was on dialysis for the last n years (here is an extensive list of his maladies):

http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/a_binladen.htm


Even in the US the mortality rate of the dialysis patients is more than 20% a year, add to it all the complications from heart disease and diabetes ... yet somehow he survives for many years on a simple dialysis unit in his cave, and is even getting healthier and healthier, if we were to go by his photos that are fed to the media.

The numerous stories of his death might have been hoaxes, but it is indeed more likely that he had already perished somewhere. They'll confirm when time is ripe, OSIT.

 

[Alana]

I wonder whether his supposed death is something they wanted published or nor, and how it is related to friday's article and comments in SOTT: Musharraf: US threatened to bomb Pakistan after 9/11

But some news agencies take the opportunity it seems with this "news" to remind the public that OBL and Muslims are the evil orchestrators of 911 (now especially that more people turn to the US government and ask questions about 911, doubting the official story), whereas all make it a point that even if he is dead, makes no difference, the war on terror must go on, as "terrorism" now has "bloomed" and expanted independent of Bin Laden!

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=97108832-CF5D-4094-8146-1D210955FDF2
REACT: Clinton Blames Bush for bin Laden Problem
LAST UPDATE: 9/23/2006 9:12:33 PM
Posted By: CyberBob

Intelligence analysts have suggested that Clinton was too distracted by the Monica Lewinsky scandal to confront the Islamic militant threat that culminated in the September 11 attacks.

Bin Laden death doubts

September 24, 2006 - 4:15PM

Deputy Prime Minister Mark Vaile said the Australian government was aware of the reports, but warned against premature celebrations.

"We would caution on any sort of excitement that (the reports) may be true," Mr Vaile told reporters in Canberra.

"I think that it would be a good boost to the global war against terrorism if they were true, but we shouldn't take a great deal of comfort, because that organisation that is the focus of war against terrorism, al-Qaeda, is well structured."

Labor foreign affairs spokesman Kevin Rudd also took little comfort from the news.

"If reports of Osama bin Laden's death are accurate, this would be a red letter day in the global campaign against terrorism, but we should not conclude that these reports are in any way confirmed," Mr Rudd told reporters in Melbourne.

He said the death of bin Laden now made only a small difference, because the global terror movement he spawned had now taken on a life of its own.

"The other disturbing detail is that whether or not Osama bin Laden is dead, the overall global terrorist movement continues apace," Mr Rudd said.

"Unfortunately, the global terrorist movement is now much bigger than Osama bin Laden, but it would be a red letter day indeed if Osama bin Laden, the mass murderer of September 11, was removed from our lives."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5374160.stm
Probe into 'Bin Laden death' leak

Saudi-born Bin Laden was based in Afghanistan until the Taleban government there was overthrown by US-backed forces in 2001 after the 9/11 attacks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5374998.stm
No evidence' of Bin Laden death

Pakistan's ambassador to the US, Mahmud Ali Durrani told BBC News 24 that he doubted the claims were true:

"It would be very nice to confirm that he is dead - in Pakistan, Afghanistan, New York or wherever, but I think such claims are unsubstantiated."

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=123&art_id=qw1159089661999B221

With his long grey-flecked beard and ever-present Kalashnikov, bin Laden became the reviled symbol of global terrorism after openly claiming responsibility for bringing down New York's World Trade Centre in 2001.

He began building al-Qaeda (The Base), his network of radical Islamists, during the US-backed resistance to the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s.

But the group's wrath later blew back on the United States in an apocalyptic crescendo on September 11, 2001 - transforming bin Laden into the world's most-wanted man with a $25-million US bounty on his head.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/23/france.binladen/index.html

On Friday, President Gen. Pervez Musharraf confirmed President Bush's earlier statement that the hunt for bin Laden is still on.

Al Qaeda was behind the September 11, 2001, attacks on the United States that killed almost 3,000 people in New York, Pennsylvania and Washington. The U.S. State Department is offering a $25 million reward for information leading directly to bin Laden's arrest or conviction, according to the FBI.

The Airline Pilots Association and the Air Transport Association are offering an additional $2 million reward.

i: CNN also in the same report

Despite the fervent denials, journalist Laid Sammari, who wrote the article, said in a telephone interview that he was confident the classified document was authentic. His article states that Saudi secret service agents on September 4 received reports of bin Laden's death.

Saudi officials plan to make an official announcement after they confirm the burial site for the al Qaeda leader, Sammari said.

reading these stories now, don't you get a deja vu? Sept. 2001

 

[Ulrich]

If the Bush people had plans on presenting a fake Osama bin Laden just before the coming elections they surely must be disappointed now. =D

I personally believe Osama bin Laden has died years ago ...
Though a hoax this story might create more than a nuisance for the PTB - for even simple-minded people might actually demand stopping the ongoing "eternal war (on terror)" now that the old patsy is gone.

 

[veille]

But now Saudi Arabia say that they aren't sure Bin Laden is dead...

So Bush and Blair... there is still hope you can resurrect your favorite boogeyman in time for next elections!

 

[veille]

Good news for politicians using terror to further their political agenda, the boogeyman isn't dead, according to Saudi Arabia govt. (Reuters)
-----
No evidence bin Laden is dead - Saudi Arabia Sunday September 24, 05:58 AM

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia said on Sunday it had no evidence that Osama bin Laden had died, shedding further doubt on a secret document leaked in France that said Saudi secret services believed he had died last month.

France and the United States said on Saturday they could not confirm the report in French regional daily L'Est Republicain which quoted France's DGSE foreign intelligence

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service as saying the Saudi secret services were convinced the al Qaeda leader had died of typhoid in Pakistan in late August.
Time magazine separately posted an article on its Web site citing an unidentified Saudi source, who claimed bin Laden was stricken with a water-borne disease and may already be dead.

The Saudi Embassy in Washington, however, issued a statement saying: "The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has no evidence to support recent media reports that Osama bin Laden is dead. Information that has been reported otherwise is purely speculative and cannot be independently verified."

French President Jacques Chirac told reporters bin Laden's death "has not been confirmed in any way whatsoever and so I have no comment to make" and that he was surprised a confidential note had been published.

France has launched a probe into how the document was leaked.

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told reporters in New York, "No comment, no knowledge," when asked about the French article.

A U.S. intelligence source separately said Washington, which has made capturing bin Laden a priority in its war on terrorism, had no evidence the report was any more credible than earlier rumours of his demise.

"We've heard these things before and have no reason to think this is any different," said the U.S. intelligence official, who asked not to be named.

TYPHOID

L'Est Republicain, published in Nancy, printed what it said was a copy of the report, dated September 21, and said it had been passed to Chirac and Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin the same day.

"According to a usually reliable source, the Saudi services are now convinced that Osama bin Laden is dead," it read.

"The information gathered by the Saudis indicates that the head of al Qaeda fell victim, while he was in Pakistan on August 23, 2006, to a very serious case of typhoid that led to a partial paralysis of his internal organs."

Time magazine said its source claimed Saudi officials have received a number of reports in recent weeks that bin Laden had been struck by a water-borne illness and was likely dead but had no solid proof.

There was scepticism about whether Riyadh was well-placed to be the first to pick up on such a development.

"If anyone was in the picture, I doubt it would be Saudi intelligence," a Western diplomat in Riyadh said.

"Even if Saudi Arabia had information, they'd pass it on to the United States, not France. It doesn't ring true."

A senior Pakistani government official said Islamabad had received no information from any foreign government that would corroborate the story.

The Saudi-born bin Laden was based in Afghanistan until its Taliban government was overthrown by U.S.-backed forces after al Qaeda's September 11 attacks on the United States.

Since then, U.S. and Pakistani officials have regularly said they believe bin Laden is hiding somewhere on the rugged border between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Bin Laden is rumoured to have been suffering from kidney ailments and receiving dialysis treatment. His last videotaped message was released in late 2004 but several low-quality audio tapes have been released this year.

(Additional reporting by Anna Willard, Jon Boyle, Islamabad bureau, Mark Trevelyan in London, Paul Eckert in New York, Alister Bull in Washington, Andrew Hammond in Riyadh)http://uk.news.yahoo.com/24092006/325/evidence-bin-laden-dead-saudi-arabia.html