friends

[cassandra]

I was having a discussion with my daughter today who said "you don't have any friends".
It's true. I hang out with people and like them, but have problems bonding with them.
I find that most people I know are all fast asleep and superficial. I would much rather read a good book than spend much time with them - Yes, that sound rather arrogant-
But I would give an awful lot to meet up with, say folks from the forum.
I know that part of the reason is that I have worked as a freelance English teacher of adults and kids where I mainly work alone, then I look after my kids, after which I often feel tired in the evenings. I also live in a place where people I have bonded with have moved away. This has happened all my life as I have lived in an international environment where people move back home eventually.
I have also experienced many disappointments, betrayals and a few deaths in friendships and family, so I have problems trusting others-
I am considered to be somewhat eccentric (actually I prefer a certain amount of "eccentricity" in people as I come from an eccentric family, so feel at home with others
like myself, plus in that way to a certain extent, perhaps less programmed??).
I can be amusing but sometimes too serious, depressed and direct, although I try to hide it.
I feel uncomfortable when other people try to get close to me.
Another huge reason is the isolation I feel in being slightly better informed about the world than the people around me, who are still going around as if everthing is just superduper. I socialised much more before I came across the Cs.
My predator sometimes tells me I am a loser because of this issue (like now), but despite feeling lonely and ashamed sometimes, I am okayish with the situation.
Still, I would much rather have at least one best friend.
Does anyone else here have similar issues?
Oh dear, it's very late, but I already feel better for having got that off my chest!

 

[mcb]

I would guess that you are not alone in feeling this way. :)

Red pill or blue pill? It seems we have to keep deciding. The more I see of what is happening, though, the less I want to have to pretend like it is not. And the more I hang out with other people, the more I am going to have to pretend.

 

[Bar Kochba]

Some thoughts:

The more you progress in the Work, the more you have to change your attitudes about such things as friendship. You can feel like you are better informed than most, but if you take a moment to put yourself in another's shoes, you will remember why they are less informed. You will also realize that they are probably afraid and that's why they act the way they act. The way we act directly relates to our level of development.

I don't have close friends the way I used to; simply because I no longer try to spill my guts to anyone I feel identified with. I erase personal history, as don Juan suggested. I attempt only to say the things necessary to keep a relationship warm or at the least, cordial, because saying too much can be cacophonous and detrimental.

I am fine with people not "getting" me. Like you, I have my family, my children. I get my intimacy from them. It's not a prerequisite in life to have a "BFF." OSIT

 

[obyvatel]

Hi Cassandra,
Like Megan said, you are not alone in feeling this way. In some ways, the issues arising with friends, relatives and even family members is related to the theme of the fairy tale "The Ugly Duckling". I do not know if you have read Clarissa Pinkola Estes' "Women Who Run With The Wolves" where she analyzes this theme. Her rendition of "The Ugly Duckling" can be found in this website _http://www.catherineshafer.com/estesuglyduck.html.

This theme is about not really fitting in the group that we find ourselves in. In the story, the ugly duckling tries to conform unsuccessfully to the ways and norms of different species. In real life, sometimes we try to conform and sometimes we try to make others conform to our thinking and ways - specially when we see that we seem to know stuff that the others don't. There is an element of self-importance at play here - no doubt about that - but also there is a deeper human longing to belong to a group where one understands and is understood at a deeper level without having to always put up appearances.

The ugly duckling could have forced itself to fit in with some of the other species it encountered - but it would have killed its essence that way. So the ugly duckling left its pseudo-comfort zone and ventured out, and after lots of trials and tribulations, found its own tribe. Similarly, in real life, we have to consciously suffer the pain of not fitting in if we really want to wake up and find our own tribe. A big part of that conscious suffering is to let others be as they want to be without trying to effect what we consider to be "beneficial change" on them. For this, it is necessary to consciously "play a role" in daily life - putting ourselves in others' shoes and acting in a way that makes life easy for both parties. This is external considering in Work parlance.

BTW, you have chosen "cassandra" as your nick and the mythical cassandra was a misfit among her people due to her divine foresight and the divine curse on her. As Laura's signature quote from Aeschylus suggests - there is a price to pay for knowledge. Maybe paying this price through conscious suffering and working without anticipation, someday like the ugly duckling we can come home to our tribe.

My 2cents fwiw

 

[cassandra]

I agree with what you are saying, Megan and Bar Kochbar. I don't feel like pretending any more either, or talking about fashion and celebreties.
Anyway, my greatest solace is this place, so three cheers to all of you.

Just saw your reply, Obyvatal, and you have said it in a nutshell. I have never been a conformist, and don't fit in with groups unless I put on a show. I did try like The Ugly Duckling.
I do not try to change other people anymore.
And yes, I chose my name, mainly because in the past I used to say things which were true, but few believed me, because they think I'm away with the fairies and do not on any account want to hear the truth, which I am beginning to accept now.
Just every now and again when my daughter flings my lack of real friends in my face (sometimes when others are present), my predator tells me what a loser I am.
My daughter is one of those who is not ready to hear it.

 

[Miss.K]

Does anyone else here have similar issues?

Hi Cassandra,

Yes, I can relate to many things in your post. Thank you for sharing, and asking.
I work alone (from home) and I have been a hermit with my cat as my only company, for the last two years.(we get along very well, though we have differences of opinion as to whether torturing mice is allowed inside the house, or not)

Seems that in untangling myself from draining relationships, I was left with almost no relations at all. The being alone has been good in some ways, and has brought some much needed peace, and quit. But I'm sometimes a bit worried that I'm being "the crazy cat lady".

I have a few good friends,(who also often tell me they are feeling lonely, even with people around them) but I'm living far away from anybody I know, so my only human contact is by Skype or mail, (and saying hello, thank you, and have a nice weekend when I shop for food).
My relationship to my family is not so great, I'm trying to work it out, but it is not so easy for me, finding out how to say no to participating in lies, without telling truths that they don't want to hear, and this is often leading to me not participating at all.
My not participating causes me to doubt myself as I think family is important. I don't have children myself.

In some ways I like spending time alone, but I miss sharing (food, laughter, talks etc.)

There is an element of self-importance at play here - no doubt about that - but also there is a deeper human longing to belong to a group where one understands and is understood at a deeper level without having to always put up appearances.

Thank you for this one obyvatel, it was soothing words for me.

 

[cassandra]

Hi Miss.K,

Well, you don't sound like a "the crazy cat lady". You don't carry tins of cat food around with you at all times to wallop any intruders with, I'm sure , and your place would have to reek of sardines to qualify. Plus, one cat a cat lady doth not make.
Anyway cats rule and thanks for your reply.

 

[Miss.K]

True

 

[Bim]

Seems that in untangling myself from draining relationships, I was left with almost no relations at all.

I think this is a very accurate description of me and my relationships at this point in my life. It wasn’t that i was having to pretend to be someone i wasnt (been kind of a rebel in a sense most of my life in this aspect and didnt really care if some saw me as odd when i wasnt doing what they were), but rather attempting to free myself from absorbing relationships that werent doing me any good due to the energy they were taking from me and the damage they were doing to my self worth. This forced me to take a step back that left me distanced from friends, because i think i just needed to regroup and try to figure myself out, just so i could stop the destructive patterns i was on without really realizing it. I was giving people too much power over me in a sense, because i was giving of myself and doing for them more than i should have.

I have a best friend who currently lives in another country that I love to death, but I found myself avoiding her just because there’s always some kind of drama in her life, and I was tired of carrying the burden. This was probably the most difficult decision I had to take, but I know I have to do what’s best for me, regardless of what others think about them. I still advice her if she asks but I just don’t get my emotions invested like I used to. It’s tough finding a middle ground, but hopefully I’ve managed to get to it, because she is a great friend to me.

I do find myself not really socializing beyond my family currently, and i've enjoyed the time to be honest. While i try to find a middle ground to continue the more important friendships i have, i see myself not having all that much in common with them at the time. I'm grateful for their friendship and support, but for me it’s a matter of doing what I need for me.

Of course I wish I could be with more people who are on a similar quest to mine, but I also understand each of us has a pace, most times different. And right now those around me aren’t really there in this sense.

 

[Nienna]

My relationship to my family is not so great, I'm trying to work it out, but it is not so easy for me, finding out how to say no to participating in lies, without telling truths that they don't want to hear, and this is often leading to me not participating at all.
My not participating causes me to doubt myself as I think family is important. I don't have children myself.

Remember, our biological family is not necessarily are spiritual family. If you read, or have read, the Wave series, you will know that sometimes our greatest threats to our "being" is from family - and friends. So thinking that you need to participate in lies and such is not necessarily true. It all depends on how well you get along with which family members. Some you may want to just cut any contact with, especially if they cause you emotional or bodily harm.

Others you can see or talk to as necessary. But don't feel guilty about not wanting any contact with them. Sometimes it is against your destiny to stay in contact with them.

Also, if you do participate in family gatherings, it is good to remember about external considering and strategic enclosure. It is good to remember these things as often as possible and in any situation.

And, also, you have another family right here on this forum. So do that which makes the most sense to you to do. Work towards your aim, and anything/anybody that interferes with that aim is not what you want to be around.

fwiw

 

[cassandra]

And, also, you have another family right here on this forum. So do that which makes the most sense to you to do. Work towards your aim, and anything/anybody that interferes with that aim is not what you want to be around.

fwiw
It's worth an awful lot.

 

[Miss.K]

Thank you Nienna Eluch,

It was worth a lot for me :)

From Strategic Enclosure:

There are two parts to the Strategic Enclosure: The first is to shelter oneself physically from the harmful influence of the 'World' as much as possible. Gurdjieff referred to this as the activity of the "sly man."

I think that my becoming a hermit was partly this, though I called it something like: Giving myself some time to know what is me, and what is the others. Or trying to get some peace to gather enough strength to be able to possibly be useful.

From Strategic Enclosure:

Unfortunately, this has often been twisted to mean the "monastic life" or "withdrawal from the world" which is an essentially useless approach when the thing that needs most to be learned is the objective truth of the reality in which we live.

And this is what causes my doubting whether my approach is "essentially useless" Though I mean for it to be temporary, but keep wanting more time.

My family members all have qualities that I love and admire, but lack introspection, and have caused (do cause) emotional harm, partly by lack of understanding that good people can, and will do bad things, unless they are willing to look at their dark side, and remember to, as Johnny Cash have expressed it:

"I keep the beast caged"

I too have caused emotional harm in my life, by anger of emotional harm done to me, combined with lack of knowledge/predators mind, but this is what makes me watch the beast and keep it caged, to the best of my ability, painful as it is.
I think my being willing to do so, is provoking and confusing for them, and they either pity me, or get angry at me.

I was deeply moved (to tears) years ago, by reading Laura quoting Ouspensky about conscience being the emotional equivalent to consciousness (I don't know where I read it, but I copied it and have read it many times since) I haven't read In Search of the Miraculous that I think it is taken from, But as it has settled I have changed fundamentally. (it is quite long so I'm not gonna put it all here unless someone wants me to)
I do not claim to have reached a level without buffers, but I have been very much in a state for years of:

"Conscience is a state in which a man feels all at once everything that he in general feels, or can feel. And as everyone has within him thousands of contradictory feelings which vary from a deeply hidden realization of his own nothingness and fears of all kinds to the most stupid kind of self-conceit, self-confidence, self-satisfaction, and self-praise, to feel all this together would not only be painful but literally unbearable.
"If a man whose entire inner world is composed of contradictions were suddenly to feel all these contradictions simultaneously within himself, if he were to feel all at once that he loves everything he hates and hates everything he loves; that he lies when he tells the truth and that he tells the truth when he lies; and if he could feel the shame and horror of it all, this would be the state which is called 'conscience.

My family members have mostly chosen the love and light approach to healing their hurts, and worries.
It seems to me that as the world is getting darker, the love and light approach is becoming more hysterical, and vicious, "All is well and wonderful" has become "Everything has to be wonderful goddammit!, and you are not allowed to experience or express any kind of discomfort, because then it pains me that you want to be unhappy, and create darkness by having a dark thoughts, and besides you should know you're making me unhappy by not stopping smoking"
(I might be exaggerating, but this is how it feels)
This year it kept coming back to me when Laura was talking about (I have no idea where) the Jesus saying he had not come to bring peace but a sword, and would set son against father, daughter against mother, and so on. It seems to me that things are intensifying (this year more than last year)
I have a feeling this year that I can best describe as "I can feel the evil in my bones" like old people who can feel bad weather approaching by pain in bones, and I think it is scary, and can't blame my family for being scared too, even though they react to it by trying to shut their eyes even harder. I want to hug them and stroke them, and tell them everything is gonna be alright, but I can't. It is not within my power.

I am currently back at reading the wave. Finally I got over the reading blockage, actually thanks to my latest deep hurts from my family, (I guess good people doing bad things, can produce productive results,,,hm!)

Hope I'm making sense, I'm emotionally overwhelmed..

Thank you for the kindness, and the warm welcoming me here to this family,
thank you all who does the work (deep breath post)

 

[Rena]

I also have no friends to speak of. I found long ago, I would much rather spend my time and energy towards family and self improvement.

 

[Zaphod]

Hi Cassandra

I think it's natural to experience what you're describing. Friendship is an issue I'm still having some problems working out, as even defining it feels a little clumsy. There's no doubt in my mind that not all friendship is good, and some friendship connections appear to be outright predatory and for the sake of sanity are probably best avoided anyway, but this presents a problem.

From my experience, the quickest way of finding yourself with no friends is to stop trying to acquire them or continue to possess them. But it seems to me that, trying to acquire or possess friends is a wholly predatory STS activity in the first place and therefor the natural path for anyone in this forum would be to move away from such activities, rendering them largely friendless..

Certainly your post resonates with me, as outside my wife and family, I'm not aware of anyone I would classify as a 'friend' rather than an acquaintance. I don't feel any necessity or compulsion to change this situation as, on a social level, I have nothing to offer most people and they appear to have little to offer me, leading usually to awkward silences.. So I feel, let's save everyone the embarrassment and misunderstandings of an unenjoyable experience for all partie,s and I'll just not take part or actively seek anything from anyone. Seems to be working out for everyone not involved, so far. They all seem happier for it. ;)

 

[cassandra]

Hi Zaphod,

I hear what you are saying. I also have plenty of acquaintances, some of whom I am fond of.
Like you, I am just not on the same page as them right now. I also think I am being blocked from finding people who resonate with me, because I am feeling too needy. If I stopped feeling this lack and became more complete in myself, less anticipatory, then things would probably start to happen.
Also, I find the place where I live a spiritual wasteland. The few esoterically-minded people I know are New Ageist.