Gracie Diet/Food Combination

[PullingPins]

I've been doing Gracie Jiu Jitsu for awhile, and my boyfriend had bought their diet book some months ago.
While it's not based in science (Carlos Gracie developed it for his family through experimentation, and all of them eat this way), the principle is that digestion takes up most of the body's energy. So, they break foods down into categories, the idea being that combining groups in certain ways makes it easier for the body to digest in order to have more energy for healing (and in relation to bjj, training). By combining foods with compatible enzymes, you avoid fermentation and blood acidity. There's no real portion control except not to stuff yourself, but the diet suggests you should eat 3 meals, 4 1/2 hrs apart, so that your body has time to digest and return to it's neutral state before eating again.
A lot of people claim to be healed of ailments and diseases by following the diet. My boyfriend said that he read somewhere that one of the Gracies had some disease that made him so weak his whole life that he couldn't train at all, but had made a complete recovery with eating by this diet. (I can't find that information anywhere, though).
The foods in the categories aren't the ones I would choose- they include gluten/milk products, and exclude all pork products. The theory of it sounds just dandy and all, but I'm wondering (for those who know more about body chemistry than me) if there actually might be any benefit to combining foods like this?

 

[mcb]

I don't know if there is any benefit or not. The notion of three well-timed meals per day doesn't seem to jive well with "life in the wild," the setting in which we evolved. Anybody can make anything up and say it's true. It helps to throw in something that people believe in -- like three meals a day, say. It's not based in science but it involves "combining foods with compatible enzymes?" How would one know which ones are "compatible?"

 

[mcb]

Something else I should mention is that the notion of "three meals a day" seems to be connected with overconsumption of carbohydrates in the era of agriculture. As other forum members who have tried it can attest, people who limit carb intake and maintain lipolysis often tend to be relatively free of eating schedules, both as to the timing and the number of meals per day. People who "stoke the fire" with carbs tend to need to keep stoking it on a regular schedule.

 

[PullingPins]

Yeah, the part about meal timing seemed off to me too, for the reasons you stated- and the "stoking the fire" thing does make sense for this diet, especially because they encourage vegetarianism/low animal fat.
I've no idea how they would know which enzymes are compatible, or how exactly he went about classifying the foods based on them. What got me thinking about it is that I've heard that certain supplements won't be absorbed correctly if taken with other supplements, etc. Wasn't sure if there was a similar effect on digestion with regular food.
And I also find it curious that all of them would still eat this way after so many years, if there was no truth to it. But who knows, I guess you can convince yourself of anything if it's making you money..

 

[mcb]

...And I also find it curious that all of them would still eat this way after so many years, if there was no truth to it. But who knows, I guess you can convince yourself of anything if it's making you money..

I would say the same thing, but speaking of the entire "civilized" human race.

 

[anart]

And I also find it curious that all of them would still eat this way after so many years, if there was no truth to it. But who knows, I guess you can convince yourself of anything if it's making you money..

Yep. I was a vegetarian for 24 years and there was no truth to it - and I wasn't even making money off of it!

 

[mcb]

Yep. I was a vegetarian for 24 years and there was no truth to it - and I wasn't even making money off of it!

Good point. It's more about convincing people to live this way, to concentrate power and wealth and to limit resistance. The "convincees" are not the ones profiting from it. Why we are so willing to be convinced is a whole 'nother subject.

 

[3DStudent]

On the topic of three meals a day, I find that I cannot reach the recommended protein amount of .8 g/kg with two meals while also doing protein restriction at less than 25g a meal. Two meals at 50g doesn't quite make it. So although I sometimes skip dinner, I'm usually three meals a day.

It's only about 5g less than the recommended amount of protein if I miss dinner. But three meals works for me, fwiw.

 

[mcb]

On the topic of three meals a day, I find that I cannot reach the recommended protein amount of .8 g/kg with two meals while also doing protein restriction at less than 25g a meal. Two meals at 50g doesn't quite make it. So although I sometimes skip dinner, I'm usually three meals a day.

It's only about 5g less than the recommended amount of protein if I miss dinner. But three meals works for me, fwiw.

Nora Gedgaudas' book has been published twice, with two different subtitles. My version is the later one, Primal Body, Primal Mind: Beyond the Paleo Diet for Total Health and a Longer Life. The earlier one is Primal Body-Primal Mind: Empower Your Total Health The Way Evolution Intended (...And Didn't). She made a comment in one of her podcasts (and may have said the same in her earlier book) that suggested that the "And Didn't" referred to caloric restriction. It is somewhat counterintuitive that restricting protein intake would improve overall health, I think, and I have yet to try it, not that I don't think it would work. It seems to be supported by both research and experience. But maybe it is not really "paleo" (as the earlier book title suggests). It is a refinement.

Eating low carb, though, with however much food (protein included) it takes to satisfy appetite, allows me to eat whenever I want to. No more cyclical energy ups and downs. There is a hunger signal associated with the stomach emptying out (a "time to go hunt for more" message), but no crash if I ignore it. And I still continue to lose weight.

I do eat on a regular schedule (with skips), because my entire day is scheduled. Some days I do eat a small third meal. I go by appetite, something that didn't work before because the excess carbs (and wheat in particular) caused my appetite to malfunction (me and countless millions of others).

Did you calculate how much protein to eat based upon your ideal weight?

 

[anart]

Eating low carb, though, with however much food (protein included) it takes to satisfy appetite, allows me to eat whenever I want to. No more cyclical energy ups and downs. There is a hunger signal associated with the stomach emptying out (a "time to go hunt for more" message), but no crash if I ignore it. And I still continue to lose weight.

I do eat on a regular schedule (with skips), because my entire day is scheduled. Some days I do eat a small third meal. I go by appetite, something that didn't work before.

I think this is the point. 3D Student, I think we've discussed before here on the forum your tendency to get overly OCD about the details of the diet. I'm not sure that's entirely healthy and think that a more natural, holistic approach would be healthier. I eat when I'm hungry, keep my carbs below 40 a day and that's it (and my carb level is lower than where most people are just fine).

So, I think it might be worth examining your tendency to overdue the details and regimen aspect of things, while missing the larger point? What do you think? Do you think that you could relax your thinking about it and still maintain your current level of health and mental stability/happiness?

 

[Psalehesost]

By combining foods with compatible enzymes, you avoid fermentation and blood acidity.

One possible point revealing the theory as wrong: The idea of body pH has been discussed in the context of the material on diet - where it is mentioned that the body, by necessity, has mechanisms which strictly limit pH to within a narrow range, suggesting that any and all dietary ideas concerned with "balancing" body or blood pH are pure bunk - at any rate in this respect.

And to avoid fermentation, simply remove fiber.

 

[HifromGrace]

By combining foods with compatible enzymes, you avoid fermentation and blood acidity.

One possible point revealing the theory as wrong: The idea of body pH has been discussed in the context of the material on diet - where it is mentioned that the body, by necessity, has mechanisms which strictly limit pH to within a narrow range, suggesting that any and all dietary ideas concerned with "balancing" body or blood pH are pure bunk - at any rate in this respect.

And to avoid fermentation, simply remove fiber.

I agree about the whole PH thing, just illogical.


When my whole digestion was a wreck, I found food combining to be quite the godsend. I have not heard about the Gracie Diet, and it does sound like quite a bit of it has the ladder on the wrong wall.


What worked for me was eating only the following variations:
~ Proteins/fats with veggies, or
~ veggies with grains (as in no burger with a bun)
~ Also, NO sweets/treats/fruit/sweetener with food or drinks. (A cookie would have to be a separate meal, and no honey with tea even. But taking Hydrochloric Acid pills would help enormously when I would screw up, contrary to common belief, you need more stomach acid to get rid of the acid reflux.)

This way I avoided ALL heartburn and indigestion (which was a daily, constant, chronic problem for me - a horrible, horrible time of my life!).

After that, I started bulking up on pro-biotics, it was the other turning point for me. The next step was avoiding all processed foods (which ended my chronic sinus problems too).


For the record, I don't do grains anymore, I'm speaking to the past when I had to do Food Combining.

It's based on which stomach acids are produced to digest carbs vs proteins vs fats vs veggies vs sweets, some just don't work well together and set up the fermentation/indigestion issue - when your body is falling apart, you can't be indiscriminate about it.

 

[mcb]

...For the record, I don't do grains anymore, I'm speaking to the past when I had to do Food Combining...

The more you learn about grains, the less attractive they appear. And while grains may not all be equally damaging, wheat might just be leading the way in causing human suffering. I am coming to see it as having been positioned in the human diet for that express purpose. The highly bred variety of wheat grown today, especially the "healthy whole grain" form, is ideal for causing prolonged suffering in people kept alive by medical technology. It's horrible to contemplate.

Group B foods of the Gracie diet consists of cereals, starches, rice, potatoes, and soybean. It's great that the originator of this diet was able to live to 95, but food and epigenetics have changed greatly (for the worse) in the last 100 years, and I doubt that these foods (and any number of those in the other Gracie food groups) were ever particularly good for people.

I can see that some foods do not combine well, and I quickly learn what they are. It's not even a conscious process, for the most part. My body remembers what didn't go down well, although it can be hard to tell if your diet includes anything that is interfering with your health. Remove the anti-foods and you become more sensitive to what combines well among the foods that remain.

The important thing, I would say, is recognizing what represents quality human fuel and consuming that whenever possible. This diet has a different aim.

 

[3DStudent]

...Do you think that you could relax your thinking about it and still maintain your current level of health and mental stability/happiness?

Yeah, I tend to get stuck in the details. It's probably best to do the well touted idea of whatever works for yourself. No need to get stuck on the numbers. I'm sure I could ease up a bit and it would be helpful. Sometimes I eat just because "It's dinner time", rather than being hungry.