Help needed and possibly a mirror

[flycat]

Good day to you all, and thanks for reading in advance.

I have a current problem that I am unable to resolve on my own. A bit of background first is probably useful; it's about relationships.

I had a what you could call a classic feeder type of relationship in the past, full of mutual draining, drama, she was violent towards me, and similar stuff. I was living without responsibilities and carelesly. I got out of that relationship, I'm working on improving myself and now have a much better relationship with my new girlfriend.

But I have a problem that I cant seem to put under control. She is pregnant, and it's been a few months. It is something we both wanted. It makes me happy as well as her.

But then came the exam. When we had an appointment, I was very rudely thrown out of the waiting room acompanied by the words 'it is not your place to be here' bw a nurse. That had me boil instantly, because I was told by the doctor that if I had any questions, I could go in and ask after the exam was over. Instead I got yelled at for no reason, and felt bad on what should have been the happiest moment of my life - seeing the life that we made, being happy about it. Instead I felt violated, stepped on, angry and disguisted with the whole thing.

I want to be a part of our childs life from the very beginning. I want to be involved. But the way that the doctors treat father of the child - total isolation, not even taking one minute to talk about a lot of questions I had, it appales me. My wife (I call her that) has too much trust in doctors. On the first exam that doctor did not do one third of the required checks, and sent my wife to do some tests that might not be neccessary.

I am dissapointed, I feel numb and dissconected from it all. I feel sideswiped and as a result, do not feel any happiness about it all anymore. I feel like it is not my child, but hers and the doctors. It's like I'm there just to drive her to and from exams, and keep my mouth shut.

It is my child, but I need to be involved to feel it. I am very angry even now as I write this whem I relive it all.

I am resentfull at my wife for letting the doctor treat me that way and not saying a word to her about it. I feel like an unwanted observer.

My wife says that I wil go when the doctor says that I can. Like that there is something that must be kept secret from me now? Like it's not my child but theirs.

I'm not too suprised by doctors stance, as I have grown accustomed to them being elitist and having god complex, but, I did not expect the same from my wife.

I love her, and do not want to upset her, but when she asks me why am I not happy after the exam, I cant answer her, because I feel a great emptyness, feel being brushed aside as an irrelevant factor, and I cant be happy about that. I see that she is happy, but I feel empty, robbed of a unique expeirience. I feel alone, sad, sometimes desperate when I think about it.

She asks me am I not happy, ane when I tell her how I feel all hell breaks loose - she tells me I am being selfish and childlike. So I better keep quiet but it eats me inside and it can be seen in my eyes.

So please tell me, am I the problem here, are those maybe some behavioural programs running that make me feel like that or am I right in believeing that as a father I should be included in all of this?

I am pretty hurt right now, and every time I look at her I relive this dissapiointment. It is eating me inside so much that I think about selfish things to do like breaking up (when I feel like I am not needed and pushed aside).

I did not even get to see a picture of our child because the doctor did not take one. My wife is telling me how it has a now distinctive head, body, etc and asks me isnt that great. I tell her I dont know since I'm obviously not allowed to see my child, to see that litlle heart that we created, to see it beating. And she gets enraged at me for not being enthusiastic like her, while it hurts me a lot. The disconnection from the whole expeirience, not being able to se it. I feel used and empty, blank.

 

[flycat]

I even told her that we will go to a private practice together, that I will pay if that is what it takes to have the doctor treat me as a human being and a father of the child. She denied that saying that I will go later when I need to go.

That seems to me like saying - you wil go when I say so, and when the doctor says so, otherwise shut up and stay still, nobody did not ask for your opinion.

But it is also my child as much as hers, and I believe I am responsible for it in the same share, and that my opinion holds equal weight as my wife's when it comes to that.

Please help me with this one as it is driving me crazy and I cant seem to find an answer to this situation.

I want to be part of everything that concerns our baby, and will not agree to anything less, and I think that is what a responsible parent must do. Right now I feel very violated and sidesteped as it is. I know that it was the norm in our soceities for a long time that men pretty much care less for their children then women do, but I am not like that and will never be.

So what would you do in my situation?

 

[cassandra]

Can you see another doctor? How would your wife feel about that?
A first pregnancy is a very emotionally charged situation and the doctor treated you quite shamefully (but hey, that's doctors for you), and the situation was compounded by your wife's lack of understanding of your hurt.
Also, this doctor should not be treating your baby without doing the proper exams. You and your wife are going to have a lot of responsibility, but parenthood starts with making sure everything is done to ensure your wife carries a healthy child to term. Your wife seems to be taking a fairly casual or naive stance on this matter.
Obviously it's the woman who carries the baby, shares her body, goes through hormonal and other physical changes, and the onus is on her to eat right and live a healthy lifestyle. Do not underestimate the effect of hormonal changes that are going on. Maybe you could read up on it.
She has a supportive and loving husband and is being a little insensitive in my opinion. She does need to include you more.
However I think you are overreacting. I can understand your feeling hurt and somewhat angry and left out, but feeling numb and desperate...?? I also sense that you may perhaps be rather controlling. I think other issues might be at play.
In my opinion a romantic dinner is called for, that's if you can put aside your anger and desperation, where you can enjoy each other's company and talk about it.
It's great that you are supportive of your wife, but you need to step back a little.
Good luck! Hope this helps.

 

[Laura]

Hmmm... make's me think of couvade. Have a look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couvade_syndrome

I'm not sure that having a partner who takes THAT much interest in the graphic parts of pregnancy is welcome to the average woman. It is, after all, a time when there are major hormone shifts for HER, lots of emotions going in several powerful directions, and the last thing she needs is a man acting like he is the one who is pregnant. She needs to be doing whatever helps to make her feel safe and secure and it doesn't sound to me like you are helping out with that.

 

[Laura]

Also read this: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/232208-How-domestic-abuse-can-scar-an-unborn-child-for-life

I'm not saying that you are abusing your partner, but I'd say you are definitely causing her stress during pregnancy.

 

[flycat]

Thanks for your responses.

cassandra; about going to another doctor - I tried to discuss that with her, but she says she will not change now because she does not want to go to a new one every time. I understand her on the one hand, but on the other, how are we going to find a good doctor if we are not willing to try?

I might be overreacting because my wife is a very silent and keep-it-to-self type. When she has a problem, she does not talk to me but tries to sort it out herself, and a lot of time she does that on the topics that touch both of us. So I am probably trying to prevent that. Which isnt good, just like her silence.

For example, when she is hurt, she wont speak to me, but falls silent and claims all is fine. That way it takes days until it boils in her enough to come out in a fit of rage, and then she can talk about it when she calms down. She rarely talks about her feelings, although I try and explain to her that open communication is the key to a sucessful relationship. She is very easily hurt by mostly minor things, but does not talk about it, insteda pretends thateverything is fine as I said before.

Many times I cant be certain is everything ok when she says so, or is something wrong.

Here's an example: she got a headache and endures it all day long until she cant stand it anymore. Then she says she is going to bed. I see that something is wrong, but she insists it's nothing and wont talk to me at all. I want to help her be better, but she wont even acknowledge that anything is wrong. Whem it gets so bad she cant stand it anymore, then she tells me about it.

I talk, talk, try to be there for her no matter how tired I am, I try to comunicate all of my thoughts to her openly, but a lot of time I am met with a wall of silence ane lets-pretend-everything-is-alright from her side.

So maybe I am so frustrated with these things in pregnancy because they are an extension of the previous behaviour.

I want to be there for her and understand her, but it is difficult when she doesnt want to talk.

I love her, and I do not want to resent her anything, and I know that I have my own baggage from the past, and I am working on getting completely rid of it.

Laura; I see where you are going, but I do not have any of those symptoms. That child was a old wish of mine, and now that its finally here, I wish to be able to see it, to let myself adapt to the fact that it is real. I wonder why is it such a problem to let me see our child? That is all that I want.

I am not acting like I'm the one who is pregnant, I just want to be a part of that expeirience in a small but important way for me. I am her support, financial as well as emotional and in every other sense. I try my best to be.

I have read that article earlier and have thought about it. I do not want to be a cause for stress for her. If it is in me, I mean if the problem is in me, tell me what do you think it is so that I can work on it. I am a very emotional person, and some things can be emotional overload for me, as this one is. I cant think straight in that situation, so that is why I am asking here what to do.

I will give her more understanding and time, but I am concerned. She is somewhat naive and sees the world thru pink glasess saying that good people are all around us, and bad ones are few and behind. I, on the other hand, am much more cautious in my approaci to people in general. She also gets mad at me for that, but I have learned from expeirience.

I want to be a better person, I do not want to be resentful or to stress her out, I want a good family for my child to grow in. I want you to tell me what do you think I am doing wrong, what might be causing such behaviour, and how can I correct it. Because it is hard if not impossible for me to stay objective in this matter. Thank you again.

 

[flycat]

What I am trying to say is that I am aware that there is a problem here and if it is in me, I want to solve it. I do not want to have things like these repeat.

 

[PullingPins]

It sounds like the doctor's office is being very rude to you, and I don't blame you about being unhappy. In my experience, doctor's offices are usually thrilled for the fathers to be involved. If it's really important that you be there from the beginning, like Cassandra said, maybe you could gently suggest seeing another doctor again (or maybe a midwife?)- especially if the one she's at now isn't giving her proper care. But, if she says no, I definitely wouldn't push it.

Because I agree with Laura, what she needs right now is a supportive partner as her body and mind go through changes that can be really hard. While it is no less your child, it's her body that has to support the baby for nearly a year. She will make her decisions about what she wants in her birthing process, and your most important job at this stage is to make her feel supported and comfortable in her choices. You can feel the way you feel, but letting her see you panic, and letting it influence what she wants, is more detrimental than anything. On top of the emotions that will already be flooding her, it's going to be stressful for her to see you be so emotional about it as well.

 

[cassandra]

Counselling would be an excellent way forward. You do need to get things sorted out before baby comes. When you become parents, expect euphoria for the first few months, coupled with sleepless nights unless you are very lucky, then reality sets in. Parenthood tends to add an extra strain to relationships, so get your differences sorted out.
Of course you will have wonderful experiences also, but you need to be united, on the same page and strong. Maybe you have to be extra strong now in order to explain the situation rationally, diplomatically and lovingly to your wife. No heated arguments, which would be bad for all of you, especially the baby.

Do you know about pipe breathing? It helps to calm you down and think straight.
I think the time has come to show yourself what you are really made of. "Screw your courage to the sticking place." Well that goes for all of us!
Hope you keep in touch, and let us know how it goes! (If you feel the need :)) And may the force be with you.

 

[Nienna]

What I am trying to say is that I am aware that there is a problem here and if it is in me, I want to solve it. I do not want to have things like these repeat.

Maybe your ego is being attacked. Here's something on self-importance.

We all suffer from self-importance. It's one of the most widely learned programs. Maybe looking at why you are acting this way could help you uncover why you are feeling the way you are. Have you been made to feel unimportant in times before? Has someone(s) made you feel worthless? When and who?

The thing is, our wounded inner child likes to take control and react to things that are similar to what it has suffered as a child. And so we act like a wounded child when these things happen. Maybe it is best to see what is triggering these things and let the wounded child know that you are now a grown-up and he needs to go out and play and let you (the grown-up) handle things.

Also, doing the EE program will help you to deal with these feelings of being not important. From how it looks, you are putting yourself before that of your girlfriend and your unborn child.

Do some EE and let it help you.

 

[truth seeker]

It sounds as if your wife may feel the need to have a safe space to think and make her own decisions. Perhaps instead of going straight to that feeling of being shut out, you can step back and allow her to take the lead? This may be a good exercise for you in dealing with self importance. It may also give her some breathing room so that she feels more comfortable in (eventually) communicating with you.

Perhaps try and see it from her point of view - if what she says/does causes you to overreact, it would make sense that she'd prefer to handle things on her own.

Does letting someone else be 'in charge' make you uncomfortable? If so, why?

The above suggestions regarding counselling and ee meditation (minus the baha portion) is something to consider as well.

Added: Just saw your post regarding self importance, NE and agree.

 

[ana]

Here's an example: she got a headache and endures it all day long until she cant stand it anymore. Then she says she is going to bed. I see that something is wrong, but she insists it's nothing and wont talk to me at all. I want to help her be better, but she wont even acknowledge that anything is wrong. Whem it gets so bad she cant stand it anymore, then she tells me about it.

I talk, talk, try to be there for her no matter how tired I am, I try to comunicate all of my thoughts to her openly, but a lot of time I am met with a wall of silence ane lets-pretend-everything-is-alright from her side.

Maybe as truth seeker said you can try to be patient and give her enough space to decide on her way, when and how to communicate with you, in wich case instead of "talk, talk" you can just shut your mouth and listen. :)

She is somewhat naive and sees the world thru pink glasess saying that good people are all around us, and bad ones are few and behind. I, on the other hand, am much more cautious in my approaci to people in general. She also gets mad at me for that, but I have learned from expeirience.

For what you explain it seems there may be an all knowing tendency on your side wich may be making her feeling frustrated and misunderstood, you see sometimes we are so concerned on what others SHOULD do to improve their situation, that we forget to simply pay attention and listen without giving instant solutions based on our current knowledge wich may be far away of what they are able or want to do at the moment.

Do not forget External consideration wich is about being able to walk in others shoes and not with stepping into their "world" with our own shoes.

External considering is however not the same thing as being socially polite or considerate, although it may be expressed in this manner.

The key concept is to be aware of and to adapt oneself to the level of being and knowledge of others. Thus, external considering involves for example not talking about things which would simply offend others' beliefs or simply not be understood. External considering relates to an idea of general good will towards the environment, then in the sense of letting the environment be as it wishes and responding to its requests in a manner that honors its right to be as it will.

External considering is rooted in objective awareness of the environment. Its opposite, internal considering, is rooted in attachment to a subjective inner state, to one's own comfort of preconceptions or desires.

That child was a old wish of mine, and now that its finally here, I wish to be able to see it, to let myself adapt to the fact that it is real. I wonder why is it such a problem to let me see our child? That is all that I want.
I am not acting like I'm the one who is pregnant, I just want to be a part of that expeirience in a small but important way for me. I am her support, financial as well as emotional and in every other sense. I try my best to be.

While it is understandable for a father to want to be part of this experience, you may want to be aware of the fact that putting pressure on her and the situation may not be helping any of you here, rather otherwise.

 

[Possibility of Being]

Hey flycat,

I think the problem lies in that you want to be part of that experience in YOUR way. You admit you're emotional about the issue and you can't think clearly and yet you seem to be brushing away others' insights and advice. Can you see it?

From what you said I understand you want to be a positive, supporting part of your growing family, right? You know what I'd do being in your shoes? I would read a lot: about pregnancy and pregnant women; about hormones and changes they cause in woman's body and mind; about woman psychology in general and about motherhood. And last but not least by any means - about Narcissism. I'd want to become expert in how to be a good parent and husband. No doubt you have - as we all do - narcissistic traits. Do you want to let them hurt your child? It seems that's a lot of time before your baby comes to this world, but I can assure you: if you don't start reading right know, you'll enter your fatherhood as clueless as you are now.

There is another benefit of such approach - it would give your wife (or girlfriend?) some space that she seems to need and want.

And yes, if only your wife agrees, get your differences sorted out as soon as possible.

Good luck to all three of you! :)

 

[Hildegarda]

[..] She is pregnant, and it's been a few months. It is something we both wanted. It makes me happy as well as her.
[..]
I want to be a part of our childs life from the very beginning. I want to be involved. But the way that the doctors treat father of the child - total isolation, not even taking one minute to talk about a lot of questions I had, it appales me. [..]

I am dissapointed, I feel numb and dissconected from it all. I feel sideswiped and as a result, do not feel any happiness about it all anymore. I feel like it is not my child, but hers and the doctors. It's like I'm there just to drive her to and from exams, and keep my mouth shut.
[..]
The disconnection from the whole expeirience, not being able to se it. I feel used and empty, blank.

Flycat, I also immediately thought of "sympathy pains" of pregnancy. What you wrote has the same raw emotional quality as what a highly hormonal brain would produce.

It is not a bad thing, it shows that you are empathetic and very in tune with your partner. Do remember however that even if the child is both yours and hers, it is SHE who is pregnant, and not you.

From my pregnancy, I also remember not appreciating my husband's attention to the baby inside me, for may be the first two thirds of the pregnancy. In fact, his touch and attempts to feel and listen to my stomach would leave me positively enraged at times, in a visceral way, like my skin would crawl.

I remember it made me feel that I have less of a meaning as a person, that I am just there to support another, not fully actualized life, which receives full attention. It also made me feel that a male is trying to impinge upon my experience, both physical and emotional, and interpret it for me, despite having no conception of how it actually feels.

As the baby grew inside me, those feeling towards my husband eventually cleared themselves out of my system. My overall lesson and impression, however, is that pregnancy is the time of woman's life when her personal space is invaded constantly, beyond what's comfortable and at times appropriate, often by virtual strangers. Please do remember this as your girlfriend goes through her pregnancy now.

I cant think straight in that situation, so that is why I am asking here what to do.

Relax. Back off and give her space. Take her out and tell her she is beautiful. Go on a beach vacation together. Talk less and hold her more. Do rather than talk. E.g., you don't have to hear her words describing in what exact ways her head hurts, in order to read her body language and let her rest, which is the only thing she asks her, and by golly it's not much.

Enjoy your intimacy and your relationship while there's still the two of you. You may not appreciate it right now, but these days are too short and will be gone forever. What will come will be amazing in its own ways, but very, very different. :)

 

[Buddy]

Hi flycat. You're probably not going to like this, but based on your description of your behavior and feelings, I'd say you have a very bad case of jealousy. This is not uncommon seeing as how, once a relationship is well underway, so many people conveniently forget the autonomy, freewill and free-choice position others had in order to enter into a relationship in the first place. Instead, one or both partners begin to act as though they had an exclusive claim on the others life.

Feelings of jealousy often arise when the unreal presumption of possessing one's partner seems challenged - kind of like how you describe what happened at the examination.

You're probably in dangerous waters right now because the more this eats at you, influencing your attitude and behavior, the more a widening disparity between you and your 'wife' is going to become visible. A widening disparity will eventually undermine any romantic-love type relationship you might be wanting because it eventually generates reactions of inadequacy, jealousy, possessiveness, even envy in the jealous partner - and resentment, dissatisfaction, or disinterest in the other partner.

A big clue for you should probably have been the discrepancy between your stated claims of really really only being interested in sharing in the experience of a new life and your behavior of actually considering ending the relationship - thus creating a "no share" experience instead.

If jealousy is really the problem then it will most likely gradually poison the friendship aspects of love. Once that friendship is gone, no link remains to hold together the nonsexual aspects of the relationship. From an emotional perspective, it's basically over no matter the surface appearances.

Perhaps you want to think about this long and hard? Jealousy cannot be wished away. It needs to be identified and dealt with. It's likely rooted in previous relationships that have nothing to do with your current partner or in past feelings of helplessness, inadequacy and insecurity related to family/social experiences in your early development cycle.

At any rate, hostile, immature possessiveness and obligatory demands become increasingly unreal, unfair, and burdensome to the victim partner. Your relationship will begin to deteriorate as you start focusing on what is not given or what is not available...while ignoring, abusing, tearing down, or destroying what is given or is available. You'll be prevented from knowing, accepting, remembering, or believing the values you originally saw and felt in your partner and your partner will sense the increasing intensity of your "bad person" feedback.

Not long after this point any friendship, love and the relationship die. Is that what you want? Is that enough of a wake up call? Or do you need me to make one-to-one correspondences between everything you have said and what I have learned about jealousy? Your call.

Hope this is not too harsh. You asked to be told what to do even though you have demonstrated what happens when you are told what to do, so I thought that I would simply write in a way that reflects the seriousness of the situation you are in right now - assuming you want to take it seriously.

Best of luck to you. :) And your partner.