Help with course outline for "different" type of AA/NA meetings

[davey72]

I am living out in the country, and have come to the realization that all the little towns around here have some big drug problems. Methamphetamine seems to be prevalent. There are 80 year old drug dealers in the towns closest to me. I would like to start a meeting. I thought this may be a good project for me, and others in the area.

My thought is to incorporate some of the concepts in the "big book" With the psychological, and diet concepts available here on the forum. Perhaps rather than reading from the bible, or big book, we could read, and watch videos from Dr. Gabor Mate, as well as books such as PBPM, etc.

I was hoping for some feedback regarding ideas, and how to create a course outline to start.

 

[Thor]

Hi davey72,

80 year old drug dealers :O That's pretty depressing. I think your idea of bringing the knowledge and information from the Forum to alcoholics/addicts could benefit a lot of people as so many things that are discussed here have a direct impact on addiction (diet, spirit attachments, psychological understanding, etc.). However, I think that doing it within the AA/NA context might be a bit difficult.

I was a marijuana addict for a number of years and through the 12-step program of Marijuana Anonymous I stopped using 8 years ago. MA is virtually like AA with the only difference that we read the Blue Book and substitute marijuana for alcohol. I've been to a few NA meetings and my understanding is that the NA approach is slightly different as they decide on the literature on their annual conventions, whereas AA strictly adheres to the text in the Blue Book.

As you probably know, the 12th step in AA (taken from http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/pdf/products/m-24_aafactfile.pdf) is the following:

Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

What this means, as I understand it is that the goal of the 12-step program is to have a spiritual awakening and it is trough connecting to a Higher Power/DCM that you're able to keep the desire to drink at bay. What's also implied is that the way to reach a spiritual awakening within the AA context is to apply the preceding 11 steps. Those steps have a lot in common with what we do here on the Forum with the very clear exception that they're static and haven't changed since they were written down but the aim is quite similar.

Therefore, I think it'll be difficult for you to bring the knowledge and information that we discover on the Forum to the 12-step programs in any formalized way. However, the main part of the 12-step meetings is sharing whatever is important to you in your recovery process and in my experience that would often include topics such as diet, psychological insights, personal insights, spiritual insights, etc. Therefore, an indirect way to make the information available would be to share about it at meetings. However, that wold require that you consider yourself to be an alcoholic/addict.

I really think that to "incorporate some of the concepts in the "big book" With the psychological, and diet concepts available here on the forum" is a great idea but I can't see that it can be done within the AA/NA context. What you could do, however, is to start meetings that are not AA/NA meetings but you can say that they combine the 12-step method with the latest scientific research that you believe can assist people in getting sober/clean. The thing is that it might be hard to get people to come to such a meeting without the "brand name" of AA/NA.

There's actually a lot of information on the AA website (www.alcoholics-anonymous.org). Specifically, here's the suggested way to set up a meeting: http://www.aa.org/en_pdfs/smf-112_en.pdf. Maybe you can develop something around that?

I am not sure this is answers your question but thought I'd pitch in my two cents :)

I really hope you can find a way to bring the two together!

 

[Meg]

Hi Davey,

It is a horrible problem and very prevalent in the country. It's a great idea on the surface, I think, but drug addicts have a hard enough time staying clean and putting thoughts together, let alone reading books and attending a course. It's a bit unrealistic for them until they learn how to live clean. That can take YEARS.

If it's really bothering you, you can contact the Central Service offices of CMA, NA, CA, or other 12-step programs and tell them what you have observed in your community. They will take the ball from there as far as starting meetings. 12-step groups don't usually take volunteers due to the group tradition of being self supporting, but you can ask if they need help.

That's not to say that you wouldn't have some luck with halfway houses (if any are near you) where folks have been clean and sober a while and are trying to re-establish themselves in the community.

As far as an outline, I would start with the predators mind and keep it simple. That is something they would understand in relation to their minds and struggle with addiction. Castaneda is also a bit mystical, and that's attractive to 12-steppers. 12-step programs are largely about self examination and service, so there is some colinearity there as well. Start small and see what grows.

Have you given any thought to learning to teach EE?

 

[davey72]

I have also heard many good things about an alternative program called SMART recovery. I would like to look into this, and try to incorporate all of what i have learned through my recovery, and more to help others. The success rate for addicts is so extremely low. Perhaps i can find a way to increase the odds?

I have also been seriously thinking about becoming a teacher of EE for quite some time. I really wanted to make sure i would be a benefit, and a faithful practitioner before even considering it. I also think EE would be perfect for something like this. Of course one would have to be very careful with this, as addicts tend to have an "i want it all now" mentality, like i did/do, and i would have to find a way of relaying the dangers until one has been abstinent for some time.

Here is a little about smart recovery.

http://www.smartrecovery.ca/ideas.html

SMART Recovery® - Ideas

I’m not ‘powerless’ over alcohol, drugs or other addictive behavior. I can certainly use some help and I believe I can beat this problem like millions of other people have.
Booze and other drugs don’t jump into my body, I choose to use them, so alternately, I can choose not to use and make it stick.
My substance use hurts me and others. I may feel good for a short time, but I suffer in the long run. It is like the ‘buy now, pay later’ plan of life.



SMART can help me achieve my goal of sobriety, but I can gain power by accepting personal responsibility for my life and what I put into my body.
Getting drunk or high is a way of indulging myself and trying to cope with stress, frustration, and anger. It’s just not worth it!!
There are better ways of coping with life than intoxicating myself. Once I learn these ways, I will be willing to give up my addictive behavior permanently.



It makes sense to seek help to learn new approaches because whatever I’ve been doing hasn’t been working.
I can learn from others and enjoy their support without depending on the group for the rest of my life.
Once I have mastered the proven methods of self management offered by SMART, I can recover and graduate from the program and get on with my life.

 

[Redrock12]

FWIW davey72, I think you're on the right track.
There are a myriad of recovery programs out there for every substance abuse problem.
And all of them have varying degrees of success. Imo, AA worked for me because I desperately wanted to stop drinking. And I haven't had any alcohol since 1978. So I guess the AA program worked for me. Too bad that FOTCM wasn't around then. I probably would have avoided a lot of the dead ends and fruitless searchings for what I perceived as truth.
There are no magic bullets to total abstinence. Mostly just a lot of hard slugging, usually with a support group, but not always. Sometimes it's one-on-one counselling, or a combination of both. Or, whatever works for the individual (fasting, meditation, reading spiritual material, geographical change etc?). Different strokes for different folks.
But, imo, the main prerequisite is a sincere desire to stop drinking or using, or whatever destructive addictive behavior one is engaged in.
At least it was for me. Fwiw.
Good luck.

 

[davey72]

FWIW davey72, I think you're on the right track.
There are a myriad of recovery programs out there for every substance abuse problem.
And all of them have varying degrees of success. Imo, AA worked for me because I desperately wanted to stop drinking. And I haven't had any alcohol since 1978. So I guess the AA program worked for me. Too bad that FOTCM wasn't around then. I probably would have avoided a lot of the dead ends and fruitless searchings for what I perceived as truth.
There are no magic bullets to total abstinence. Mostly just a lot of hard slugging, usually with a support group, but not always. Sometimes it's one-on-one counselling, or a combination of both. Or, whatever works for the individual (fasting, meditation, reading spiritual material, geographical change etc?). Different strokes for different folks.
But, imo, the main prerequisite is a sincere desire to stop drinking or using, or whatever destructive addictive behavior one is engaged in.
At least it was for me. Fwiw.
Good luck.

Thanks for all the input. I really do think that knowledge input is the key for those that really want to be sober, and not just dry. For example. One thing that really made a difference to me being completely sober, and stopping myself from dabbling was when i heard the part of Pavlov's experiment that many don't know about. It was said that when Pavlov stopped ringing the bell that after about three months the dogs would stop salivating. So, this told me that total abstinence was required to rewire the brain.

Personally the anquish of being an addict had me searching many different avenues. It is a hard slow process. Which is another thing that really needs to be made understood. I cannot even imagine how different it would be if i had been eating properly, and known some of the things i know now. The only thing most people have on the outside is meetings, or treatment with a religious conotation. At least i had the forum. 5% of opiate addicts will stay sober for at least a year, and only two percent of methadone patients will. That is pretty depressing. There has to be a better way.

 

[herondancer]

Hi davey72,

I think you are on the right track too. The SMART program sure sounds more in line with Work principles, and the idea of being responsible for one's own growth. I like it!

I feel you would possibly make very good EE teacher with the added value of being able to speak to your proposed target audience with the voice of experience. Even if you don't start a full-scale program, half-way houses are an excellent alternative. Alana and I gave sessions once a week at a women's shelter. Even though we rarely saw the same folks twice, the staff said it made a real difference to a lot of them. So you never know what even one encounter will do for another person.

You might start with the recommended reading focusing on the diet and cognitive science stuff, plus closely reviewing the intro video by Laura that comes with the dvd set (or online). When you think you're ready to get serious about it, let Chu know. Teacher training can be skyped, so it can be scheduled when it's convenient for you.

 

[davey72]

I still need to get my diet completely in order. I consume too much protein, and carbs. Not sure if this is too bad being paleo, but i also sneak the odd treat. The worst one being some very rarely occasional ice cream. This is why i have been waiting to inquire about teaching. That, and the fact that i am out in the middle of nowhere with little money. I did finally work my way up to a vehicle the other day, but it's a killer on gas. Work should be coming up shortly. I am starting a business for tax purposes. I also wanted to do a SRT session before i commit any money to training.

It is very true that you can make a difference for someone this way. When i was in treatment we had guest speakers, and the odd person would really resonate with me, or say something that really sticks, and inspires. It helps a person get out of their head. Who knows what the actual mechanism is? How subjective it is, or maybe comes from your own subconcious, or if you really are connecting with this person in some respect, but the affect is real. I am really happy to hear that you, and Alana were able to do this. The way that the both of you come across, i KNOW you really helped people.

I also think this is goal worth working towards. I feel as if i have been stagnating lately. Being a teacher for EE would be great, but doesn't seem feasible right now with my money situation. I have a background when i was a kid of collecting donations for various charities. Which is why i know how shady they can be. I made a lot of money doing this, but "burnt" out when i had a crisis of conscience. I am pretty sure i can use these skills to find funding for a space for help for addicts, but to find a space for EE may be another matter. I think it would have to come out of pocket, at least until it all gets going. Maybe i can start the training anytime, but i want it to be fresh. I don't want it to go stale while i wait for money.

By doing something like this i feel i will be helping others while i help myself.