How we see others tells us about ourselves!

Stevie Argyl

Jedi Master
from: http://www.ecoworld.com/other/say-others-reflects.html

I link to the document due to the copyright warning at the base which states:
Copyright 2010 United Press International, Inc. (UPI). Any reproduction, republication, redistribution and/or modification of any UPI content is expressly prohibited without UPI’s prior written consent.

Keeping the forum trouble free :)

Can anyone in the know clarify whether it would be ok to paste the full article?
 
Fwiw, you may want it placed in the Sott suggestion section. I can move it there if you'd like. The full article should be fine to post, in my opinion.
 
Hi Truthseeker
happy for you to move it there if you think thats a better place
I put it in the swamp as I am aware there is a 'post count' to get in and didnt want the article crawled, but I unpasted the article anyway and just put the link there.
 
If I perceive others in a "positive" manner, it shows I have a lot of positive traits. If I perceive others in a negative way, I could be a narcissist or antisocial. Seems like the article is talking about projection. Projection - either positive or negative - does not help in objectively perceiving others as they are. It may help in understanding something of our own selves if taken in the right manner.
The results of the study could be more easily manipulated to bolster the new agey "think positive" attitude instead of suggesting the alternative choice to view the self and others objectively - osit.
 
HOW we see others as opposed to WHAT we see is the subtle devil in the details. We can see that a person has a lot of problems, that the person may be obstinate, bombastic, egotistical, and so on, and think that they are basically a good person inside who is troubled, or that they are pathological and we want them to go away. The question is, is that "HOW" - troubled vs pathological - accurate or not? Does viewing a pathological person as pathological mean that the person making the assessment is also pathological? Or vice versa? Is a person who views a pathological person as normal but wounded pathological themselves? Or normal and ignorant and projecting their normality onto pathology? Or how about viewing a normal person as pathological? That is usually the case for pathologicals!

If we are dealing with non-pathological issues, just simply differences in personality types, we may view a highly driven, ambitious, competitive person as tiresome and irritating while a placid, non-competitive person may be viewed as a pleasure to be with. Do we suggest that this is because we, ourselves, are of either ilk? Quite often, it is the placid person who more easily tolerates the driven person.

Obviously, two very driven, competitive people will clash quite often.

The term "resistance" was used by Freud to designate the reluctance that his patients had regarding discussing their deepest, most painful and humiliating experiences during analysis. He believed that resistance was often related to repression which was a subconscious, or semi-conscious, tendency to remove or withhold from consciousness impulses or memories which the patient found particularly unpleasant to remember or admit as their own. So far, so good. We could even relate this repression to split off areas of the self - sort of a a horizontal description of the subconscious rather than a vertical one. It's not stuff that is "buried" but rather "walled off."

Things got a lot more interesting when many individuals - among the scientists, psychologists, physicians, psychiatrists - rejected some of Freud's chief theories, particularly his ideas about sex running the show and everyone being basically homosexual or bisexual, and little boys yearning for their fathers to commit sodomy on them, only inhibited by their fear of castration, and so forth. (Freud was a psychopath.)

So, Freud decided that this resistance to his ideas was psychological resistance: that all these people who rejected his ideas were not willing to own up to their own urges for incestuous sodomy and fear of castration as infants.

Keep in mind that Freud never, EVER, at any time, offered any scientific proof of his ideas.

So, if anyone cannot take Freud's word for things that he claimed, that person ended up having to defend themselves against the argument that they held similar unconscious desires, fears etc. Any critic of Freud who did not accept universal bisexuality was accused of having unrecognized homosexual tendencies within himself, and, because he so vehemently denied them, was accused of having them in very strong doses!!

Hopefully you can see the elements of the Reversive Blockade argument here as well as a powerful Paramoralism. This is a mind-job of epic proportions. Another comparison that comes to mind is the Emperor's New Clothes.

Nevertheless, I think we can all agree that there are such things as prejudices and that they are like programs or buffers as we understand them. Programs, buffers, prejudices can explain why a person cannot accept good evidence about a particular topic, preferring to continue in the belief that they do not wish to have disturbed. This sort of problem in human judgment was recognized and described long before Freud ever came along.

The problem is that Freud imputed "subconscious resistance" to everyone who disagreed with him . When one does this - accusing anyone who disagrees with you of being guilty of what they disagree with, only subconsciously - you are employing a tactic that cuts both ways.

If a man is truly suffering from fears that his father will castrate him and is not conscious of it, it is certainly reasonable to say that he would be unlikely to accept such an idea and is equally unlikely to accept any proof of such thinking. BUT, on the other hand, such a man who does suffer from such fears subconsciously might also be more susceptible than others to being convinced that such beliefs are universal and he, therefore, has no reason to feel that he has a problem!

In other words, suppose it was Freud himself who held all these types of beliefs inside himself? Would it not be likely that he would convince himself that they are universal and normal and then project them onto others?

Ordinary, everyday experience can tell us that selfish people are particularly likely to point out selfishness in others and habitual liars can be crusaders against lies. I've read cases, and observed, people who are very sexually insecure who are homophobic or behave in a super-macho, bullying way. These kinds of things have been recognized by the ordinary person for years - it is part of "folk wisdom."

BUT, there is NO reason to assume that this is a universal characteristic of all people and that EVERYONE is perverse in their own subconscious and that the main reason they reject things/people/practices is because they desire those very things! That would be like thinking that the parent who is upset to learn that their son has committed murder are only motivated by the wish to have done it themselves!

Think about it for a moment. If negative reactions to anything are as Freud claimed they were - a refusal to accept them as your own - then reactions against murder, child abuse, rape, war, and so on, must arise from unconscious impulses to do those things!

The fact is, there are many reasons people do or do not do, see or do not see. Freud's rule that he who responds with intensely negative reactions to anything thereby discloses his unconscious longing to emulate it is patently ridiculous.

Yes, we have often seen situations where people are unaware of the motives within themselves that they criticize particularly in others. And most of us have encountered situations like this in ourselves. But there are many things that can cause strong dislike or revulsion.

Long before Freud came along, Shakespeare wrote "the lady doth protest too much" indicating an attempt to conceal her real motive. Dickens wrote about Uriah Heep who was loaded with false humility that concealed a ravening predator inside. We are all familiar with braggarts who are failures in life. But because we know that there are such individuals who are pathological or pathologized, there is no reason to think that there is no such thing as real, honest emotions, reactions, expressions of grief, indignation, etc; or that courtesy and true humility do not exist.

In short, it is a travesty of psychology to suggest that people are inevitably, regularly, or generally inclined - subconsciously - to what they find distasteful, unnatural or unattractive.

By the same token, it is a travesty to suggest that how we see others tells us about ourselves.

It may, or it may not.
 
Here is a link with a little more information on the study, I am unable to find the complete study.

The questions were asked of peoples views of 3 people they knew.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/08/100802165441.htm


ScienceDaily: Your source for the latest research news and science breakthroughs -- updated daily

What You Say About Others Says a Lot About You, Research Shows

ScienceDaily (Aug. 3, 2010) — How positively you see others is linked to how happy, kind-hearted and emotionally stable you are, according to new research by a Wake Forest University psychology professor.

"Your perceptions of others reveal so much about your own personality," says Dustin Wood, assistant professor of psychology at Wake Forest and lead author of the study, about his findings. By asking study participants to each rate positive and negative characteristics of just three people, the researchers were able to find out important information about the rater's well-being, mental health, social attitudes and how they were judged by others.

The study appears in the July issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. Peter Harms at the University of Nebraska and Simine Vazire of Washington University in St. Louis co-authored the study.

The researchers found a person's tendency to describe others in positive terms is an important indicator of the positivity of the person's own personality traits. They discovered particularly strong associations between positively judging others and how enthusiastic, happy, kind-hearted, courteous, emotionally stable and capable the person describes oneself and is described by others.

"Seeing others positively reveals our own positive traits," Wood says.

The study also found that how positively you see other people shows how satisfied you are with your own life, and how much you are liked by others.

In contrast, negative perceptions of others are linked to higher levels of narcissism and antisocial behavior. "A huge suite of negative personality traits are associated with viewing others negatively," Wood says. "The simple tendency to see people negatively indicates a greater likelihood of depression and various personality disorders." Given that negative perceptions of others may underlie several personality disorders, finding techniques to get people to see others more positively could promote the cessation of behavior patterns associated with several different personality disorders simultaneously, Wood says.

This research suggests that when you ask someone to rate the personality of a particular coworker or acquaintance, you may learn as much about the rater providing the personality description as the person they are describing. The level of negativity the rater uses in describing the other person may indeed indicate that the other person has negative characteristics, but may also be a tip off that the rater is unhappy, disagreeable, neurotic -- or has other negative personality traits.

Raters in the study consisted of friends rating one another, college freshmen rating others they knew in their dormitories, and fraternity and sorority members rating others in their organization. In all samples, participants rated real people and the positivity of their ratings were found to be associated with the participant's own characteristics.

By evaluating the raters and how they evaluated their peers again one year later, Wood found compelling evidence that how positively we tend to perceive others in our social environment is a highly stable trait that does not change substantially over time.
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I had hoped for more in depth information on the study questions and examples of what thinking/ study lead to the conclusions. But what they found my Granny could have told them 30 years ago: People who spend their time bitching about others aren't dealing with their own negative personality traits.
 
"Seeing others positively reveals our own positive traits," Wood says.

The study also found that how positively you see other people shows how satisfied you are with your own life, and how much you are liked by others.

If that is truth, then how do we reconcile it with what we try to do here?

I would say that this kind of apreciation is truth when talking of very subjective states of conscience, when one is so trapped in wishfull thinking that the world and the rest of the persons became the objects of projection of his/her own internal world.

On the contrary The Work show us, how it is indeed possible to see others and the world for what it is once we approach more objectives states.

The hability to see the truth outside ourselves depend on each one of us, as Laura said:


Laura said:
In short, it is a travesty of psychology to suggest that people are inevitably, regularly, or generally inclined - subconsciously - to what they find distasteful, unnatural or unattractive.

By the same token, it is a travesty to suggest that how we see others tells us about ourselves.

It may, or it may not.

Seems to me, some try to sell this garbage, so that those seeing evil out there, start to doubt and blame themselves, it just makes my blood boil!
 
Ana said:
"Seeing others positively reveals our own positive traits," Wood says.

The study also found that how positively you see other people shows how satisfied you are with your own life, and how much you are liked by others.

If that is truth, then how do we reconcile it with what we try to do here?


I think we need to keep in mind that most studies are about the "average" person, i.e. mechanical, asleep people. Anyone who doesn't fit the norm to a "statistically significant" degree gets lost in the data. So it may be true, but it doesn't mean there aren't exceptions!

And like you say, it's talking about "subjective states of conscience", not real Conscience and Consciousness, which often doesn't resemble the norm.

Seems to me, some try to sell this garbage, so that those seeing evil out there, start to doubt and blame themselves, it just makes my blood boil!

Yeah. It's crazy how many researchers find these patterns and trends in behavior and just assume that because it's "normative" it's "right". It's like they can't comprehend that the majority can be wrong, and it just ends up creating a feedback loop, without offering any alternative or criticism of most people's habits.
 
This thread reminds me of an "exercise" in the Lifespring, Basic Training course that I got roped into taking, over 20 years ago. They wanted all of us to mingle around the room and approach one another & tell them what we thought of them. I was aware enough to know the outcome of this exercise. So I told an old man, you appear to be kind & compassionate. I told a lady she had beautiful hair. I was kind to everyone. An aggressive women approached me and told me she thought I was a bitch.

Then, the coach told everyone that what you told others is really what you are! The exercise then continued & you were given a chance to re-approach people & apologize! Some people were crying. It was sad to watch. The aggressive women apologized sincerely & was visibly upset. I simply accepted & told her that this Lifespring course was a bunch of BS!

So it seems this garbage has been pushed for a long, long, time. As for Freud, I dropped a psychology class once, because the teacher was hell-bent on Freud & his sick theories. I thought then, he was stark raving mad. Now I know, he was a psychopath!

All this makes my blood boil too, especially those folks who erronerously call Freud the "father of psychology".
 
Lilou said:
This thread reminds me of an "exercise" in the Lifespring, Basic Training course that I got roped into taking, over 20 years ago. They wanted all of us to mingle around the room and approach one another & tell them what we thought of them. I was aware enough to know the outcome of this exercise. So I told an old man, you appear to be kind & compassionate. I told a lady she had beautiful hair. I was kind to everyone. An aggressive women approached me and told me she thought I was a bitch.

Then, the coach told everyone that what you told others is really what you are! The exercise then continued & you were given a chance to re-approach people & apologize! Some people were crying. It was sad to watch. The aggressive women apologized sincerely & was visibly upset. I simply accepted & told her that this Lifespring course was a bunch of BS!

So it seems this garbage has been pushed for a long, long, time. As for Freud, I dropped a psychology class once, because the teacher was hell-bent on Freud & his sick theories. I thought then, he was stark raving mad. Now I know, he was a psychopath!

All this makes my blood boil too, especially those folks who erronerously call Freud the "father of psychology".

It really is most common in new ager's courses and I always felt something was wrong. Many times in these courses I felt some guilt and I was angry at myself because I just could not see some things in me, and I saw them in others ... a lot of waste of energy (and money!).
 
http://www.ecoworld.com/other/say-others-reflects.html said:
Dustin Wood, assistant professor of psychology at Wake Forest University, Peter Harms at the University of Nebraska and Simine Vazire of Washington University in St. Louis say a person’s tendency to describe others in positive terms is an important indicator of the positivity of the person’s own personality traits and their emotional stability.

“Your perceptions of others reveal so much about your own personality,” Wood says in a statement. “Seeing others positively reveals our own positive traits.”

The study, published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, finds particularly strong associations between positively judging others and how enthusiastic, happy, kind-hearted, courteous, emotionally stable and capable one describes oneself and is described by others.

Psychology and media have been harnessed to COINTELPRO. The research and reporting discourage and condemn those who sense, think, and feel reality diverge from the consensus description or experience. Academia, medicine, and media maintain power over others by suggestion and pharmaceuticals. I copied a few paragraphs from Laura on the Wikileaks thread. The Greek Chorus claps for the professorial authority of the positive thinking lie which is always ready to condemn dissent and critique of the PTB. Laura's work linked and quoted below go into depth on what may be occurring in the Ecoworld article suggesting we are what we think. It is part of the effort to maintain the smile-be-happy program in spite of all evidence.

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=18200.msg183918#new said:
This is an issue that will never die. It seems impossible to convince people that private behavior cannot be predicted from public behavior. Kind, nonviolent individuals behave well in public, but so do predators, rapists, murderers, pedophiles and COINTELPRO agents who help to shape the culture in which we live. No, they weren't always called COINTELPRO, but the principle is the same. It has been used since time immemorial. The earliest written records we have are of "clappers" in the audiences of theaters in ancient Greece. What do you think the term "Greek Chorus" means? We have exactly that in the present day in the form of the mainstream media. Did you think that, with the power of the internet to reach millions of people that the "powers that be" would have ignored the necessity of installing a "Greek Chorus" on the net? "The chorus offered background and summary information to help the audience follow the performance, commented on main themes, and showed how an ideal audience might react to the drama as it was presented. They also represent the general populace of any particular story." Discussion boards are ideal formats for "Greek Choruses" as they can be vectored to "show how the ideal audience ought to react," and to "represent the general populace." In this way, the illusion can be created of a consensus when, in fact, such a consensus may not exist.

http://laura-knight-jadczyk.blogspot.com/2006/01/cult-of-plausible-lie.html said:
During good times, people lose sight of the need for thinking, introspection, knowledge of others, and an unde-rstanding of life. When things are “good,” people ask themselves whether it is worth it to ponder human nature and flaws in the personality (one’s own, or that of another). In good times, entire generations can grow up with no understanding of the creative meaning of suffering since they have never experienced it themselves. When all the joys of life are there for the taking, mental effort to understand science and the laws of nature - to acquire knowledge that may not be directly related to accumulating stuff - seems like pointless labor. Being “healthy minded,” and positive - a good sport with never a discouraging word - is seen as a good thing, and anyone who predicts dire consequences as the result of such insouciance is labeled a wet-blanket or a killjoy.

Perception of the truth about reality, especially a real understanding of human nature in all it’s ranges and permutations, ceases to be a virtue to be acquired. Thoughtful doubters are “meddlers” who can’t leave well enough alone. “Don’t fix it if it ain’t broke.” This attitude leads to an impoverishment of psychological knowledge including the capacity to differentiate the properties of human nature and personality, and the ability to mold healthy minds creatively.

The cult of power thus supplants the mental and moral values so essential for maintaining peace by peaceful means. A nation’s enrichment or involution as regards its psychological world-view could be considered an indicator of whether its future be good or bad.

During good times, the search for the meaning of life, the truth of our reality, becomes uncomfortable because it reveals inconvenient factors. Unconscious elimination of data which are, or appear to be, inexpedient, begins to be habitual, a custom accepted by entire societies. The result is that any thought processes based on such truncated information cannot bring correct conclusions. This then leads to substitution of convenient lies to the self to replace uncomfortable truths thereby approaching the boundaries of phenomena which should be viewed as psychopathological. [...]

When bad times arrive and people are overwhelmed by an excess of evil, they must gather all their physical and mental strength to fight for existence and protect human reason. The search for some way out of difficulties and dangers rekindles long-buried powers or discretion. Such people have the initial tendency to rely on force in order to counteract the threat; they may, for instance, become “trigger happy” or dependent upon armies. Slowly and laboriously, however, they discover the advantages conferred by mental effort; improved understanding of psychological situations in particular, better differentiation of human characters and personalities, and finally, comprehension of one’s adversaries. During such times, virtues which former generations relegated to literary motifs regain their real and useful substance and become prized for their value. A wise person capable of furnishing sound advice is highly respected.

It seems that there have been many such “bad times” in the course of human history, and it was during such times that the great systems of ethics were developed. Unfortunately, during “good times,” nobody wants to hear about it. They want to “enjoy” things, to have pleasure and pleasant experiences, and so any literature that relates to such times is lost, forgotten, suppressed, or otherwise ignored. This leads to further debasing of the intellectual currency and opens the gap for bad times to come once again. [Andrew Lobaczewski, Ph.D. Political Ponerology: The Science of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes]
 
The article seems to be twisting some truth.

I mean, in a general sense, I have been cautious of people who always see others in negative or postive terms - it seems a lack discernment. This indicates to me that those who do so are very mechanical, unaware and subjective. It could then be a reflection of their own characteristics, but it could also be a reflection of their world view. For example, a suspicious person could see everyone as untrustworthy (rather than a healthier approach of evaluating each individual as trustworthy or not). Does this mean the suspicious person is untrustworthy him/herself or does it just mean that the person is so wounded they cannot trust anyone else?
 
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