Huge Dust Storm on Mars

anart

A Disturbance in the Force
http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/articles/show/135606-Huge+Dust+Storm+Breaks+Out+on+Mars

I have a question about this article - Nasa has been telling us for years that Mars have 'virtually no atmosphere' - it is one-onethousandth that of Earth's.

So, how do such windy conditions exist if this is true? I suppose I'm asking anyone with some expertise to help me understand how that works.

Here's a NASA 'habitability' link - http://nai.nasa.gov/habitabilitycards.pdf
 
I'm not an atmospheric scientist (I only play one on TV) but I think that the low atmospheric pressure actually contributes to the high winds and massive size of the dust storms.

On Earth, winds develop but for them to go somewhere they have to push more atmosphere "out of the way". If you have less atmosphere, the average wind velocity can increase and the size increases because there is no "back pressure".

On Mars wind develops the same way it develops on Earth, differential heating of the atmosphere causing pressure differences, pressure differences cause the atmosphere to attempt to equalize the difference, voila, wind..

What NASA means by "virtually no atmosphere" is if you step outside your space ship on Mars and step outside your space ship on the Moon, both without a space suit, the subjective effect will be essentially the same, you will perceive no atmosphere.

Another interesting factoid (or is it fakt??? ;)) is that on Mars there is a *tremendous* temperature gradient from the surface to even only a few inches from the surface.

On Earth the weather at sea level is "normal" and the weather at an airline cruising altitude of 30,000 feet is well below zero. On mars the temperature 1/2" from the surface would be perceived as comfortable, but only a few feet away is the frigid temperature we associate with Mars. This is why it is entirely possible that there could be liquid water on mars, it flows on the surface in that relatively temperate atmospheric layer.
 
Thanks, rs, that makes sense. So, to wander more deeply into what I do not know about space, does that mean there can be wind on the moon, or does the moon have no atmosphere at all?
 
On mars, there are even dust devils, see NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Project!
devil.PNG


Also sand dunes (formed by wind) and other beautiful pictures photographed by the HiRISE camera can be seen at _http://marsoweb.nas.nasa.gov/HiRISE.

The moon has also a very thin atmosphere. The book "The Expanding Case For The Ufo" from M. K. Jessup deals with that (nebulas, etc.):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_K._Jessup said:
The Expanding Case for the UFO (1957) [...] suggested that transient lunar phenomenon were somehow related to UFOs in earth's skies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_lunar_phenomenon said:
A transient lunar phenomenon (TLP) refers to short-lived lights, colors, or changes in appearance of the lunar surface. Claims of short-lived phenomena go back at least 1000 years, with some having been observed independently by multiple witnesses or reputable scientists.
Hope that answers some of your questions :)

Edit: If I find time I will quote a bit from the chapter about the Lunar Atmosphere!
 
anart said:
Thanks, rs, that makes sense. So, to wander more deeply into what I do not know about space, does that mean there can be wind on the moon, or does the moon have no atmosphere at all?
Define "no atmosphere". There are various molecules and ions even in "empty" space and yes, these things exhibit physical effects. The "Solar wind" is not just a metaphor, it is an actual physical thing. Sure, it is largely charged particles, and so has very different chemical characteristics to the atmosphere we have on Earth. Are there the lunar equivalent to dust devils or dust storms? Probably not. Most likely the "atmosphere" on the moon shows up more as a chemical reaction with the rock.

The point with Mars is that it has a very thin atmosphere compared to Earth. However what it *does* have is sufficient to create "weather" conditions such as we understand them. NASA has even taken images of clouds. The first images transmitted back from Mars showed a blue sky, although NASA now "color corrects" the images. Actually Hoagland [yes, yes, I know, Hoagland...] had an interesting write-up about the whole NASA blue sky controversy. The original images look like Arizona and the "color corrected" images look garish with the color intensity all wrong.

I'm betting that the first words out of the mouth of the first person to set foot on Mars is not going to be "One small step for Man" but "Damn, this looks like Arizona."
 
Apparently space right above the moon is not total vacuum. There is an "atmosphere", although a very very thin one.

See here:
_http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/earth/moon/lunar_atm.html&edu=elem

And here:
_http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/08/980820080624.htm
 
Book THE EXPANDING CASE FOR THE UFO, Chapter SELENOLOGY SPEAKS, Section ATMOSPHERE

In "A Guide to the Moon", Moore has this to say about its atmosphere:
Despite the statements so often met with in textbooks, there is a little air left on the moon. However, the atmosphere is extremely thin and no earth-born creature could possibly breathe it. If the moon was once a part of the earth, it is reasonable to assume that it took a small share of the atmosphere with it when it broke away.

As indications of a rarefied atmosphere, lunar twilight has been noted as well as thin extensions of the crescent horns. Also filaments, connecting the tops of lunar mountains, are reported on the dark side of the terminator. These all indicate, to Moore at least, a remnant of atmosphere around the moon - but are not these phenomena merely local nebulosities such as are seen in the craters Plato, Aristarchus, Schickard, and others?

Moore concludes after an excellent analysis that the moon’s atmosphere at the surface is about 1/10000th as dense as that at the surface of the earth. However, because of the relatively lower gravitational pull, the moon's atmosphere at fifty miles altitude should be as dense as that of the earth at the same height. Above fifty miles, the moon's atmosphere may be denser than that of the earth at corresponding levels. So, if there is any space life depending on air in such altitudes, it might find more hospitable conditions at high altitudes over the satellite than over the planet.

In the levels at which meteors become visible over the earth, they should also be visible over the moon. Numbers of lights have been seen moving over the moon, but not as many as theory would indicate, and they have not always been identifiable as meteors. Small meteors such as we see in our atmosphere would not be readily seen over the moon, because of their faintness and short arc of flight. A few flashes, lasting one to three seconds, have been seen on the dark side of the moon, which may be the result of meteors striking the surface.

The few known observations of lunar meteor-trails indicate a length of about seventy-five miles which is in agreement with theory. Since meteoric velocity ranges from fifteen to forty or more miles per second, a lunar meteor, seen telescopically from the earth, would appear slow-moving, crossing about one minute of arc of the lunar surface in two or three seconds of time. The very rarity of lunar meteors is indicative, however, of weakness in this whole concept. With our modern telescopes there should be thousands of sightings of lunar meteors, if they were comparable in number to terrestrial meteors.

Selenographers have reported shadows, especially in some craters which were not pitch black. This might indicate a minimum amount of atmosphere, serving as a light-diffusing medium; but it is difficult to explain these localizations on the basis of a generally overlying atmosphere. We face the fact that if any craters show this effect, then all should show it. On the contrary such grey shadows are exceptional. If gas is the cause, the gas is strictly a local phenomenon. Yet it is unthinkable that local clouds could maintain themselves in the presumed vacuum of the moon, unless deliberately controlled.

Sometimes penumbra are seen with lunar shadows, which Moore considers an indication of atmosphere. But the assumption would be sounder if the atmosphere were denser than it has proven to be. The point is, these shadows are very long - hundreds of miles in some instances - and considering the size of the sun, relative to the objects and their shadows, there should be thin penumbras in any case. But none are seen as a rule, and an isolated case does not indicate a widespread atmosphere, but rather a locally controlled lighting arrangement.
On March 29, 1939, Dr. H. P. Wilkins saw the central mountain of the crater Copernicus faintly lit against the black shadow of the floor, for about a quarter of an hour.

There is UFO significance in this. If it were due to atmospheric effect, the phenomenon would have lasted much longer. If it were due to atmospherically refracted light, then it should have appeared all over the surface of the moon. As we have already seen, any number of reported cases of similar abnormal illumination have been wrongly attributed to atmospheric action.

None of these explanations, however, can rationalize the local nature of the observed phenomena. The conclusion becomes inescapable: some type of highly localized "control" is being exercised. And by "control" we mean, in the last analysis, UFO action.

De Fonville pointed out that not only would water vapor freeze on the moon, but the air itself would freeze where the sunlight had been withdrawn for any considerable length of time. This precludes any extensive atmospheric blanket around the moon and emphasizes the restricted nature of clouds and of all phenomena dependent on the action of mists and fogs.
 
I live in Arizona and scientists really do come here to study our dust devils in order to learn more about the ones on Mars.
 
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