Hyperboreans, Luwians and Alevis

Biomiast

Jedi Master
Hi to all,

This is something I intended to do a few months before I joined this forum but I never had a chance to do it because of my exams. Our subject in this thread includes Sufism, Alevi-Bektashi tradition and some Greek Mythology as well. My main sources will be the poems of Alevi-Bektashi literature, some legends of Anatolia, Laura's Return of the Mongols series and a recent book that I found: Secret History of Alevis written by Erdogan Cinar. I hope I can convey all the information to you and you can decide whether my analysis is correct or not. 

When I was reading Wave Series I thought it is very nice of Laura to include Sufism. I do not know much of it, but from what I know, I do not think it should be let alone in the hands of mainstream religion. People with critical minds should observe it.

We all have special areas and as I wrote in my introduction post, I am a fan of Alevi-Bektashi literature and I read many poems and legends of them. I knew they posses higher knowledge but they seemed to stuck with Islam routine. I thought if they carry so much knowledge, do they see something in Islam that I can not see?

As I researched, I thought Alevis might use Islam as a disguise but I did not even have any clues, let alone proof. I thought it must be my wishful thinking but then I found Erdogan Cinar's book, Secret History of Alevis. Well, even title reminds you SHOTW and I was thinking: This is it, I found it.

Erdogan Cinar is a wise person, knows how to convey something and he is not a researcher(he is an architect) but his writing style resembles to someone who knows. As I read it I came across a few sentences in the beginning: "When I was writing this book, there were times that I found exactly what I was looking for and even more. It seems, I am not the writer of this book, but someone else was writing it." Then I realised, this guy was also led astray but how much did he find before that?

The book is important for me because it introduced me to the secrets of Alevis which remained hidden and various poets and verses that I have never encountered before. I have done my own analysis of the book and I am going to give it along the way.

Western civilization, which wants to obtain wisdom, turned to East and they found Mevlana, one of the most important Sufis, and they said: "Well, this is it. Lets all follow Mevlana." I do not think it is that simple. Sufi knowledge is variable and when you look at the history you can see those who posses great wisdom are either destroyed or revealed after the corruption occurred. Mevlevis carry such corruptions. I am not saying Mevlana carries them, just Mevlevis. Also Alevis carry that corruption but I intend to separate wheat from the chaff with the knowledge I have from Cassiopaean Experiment.

I suppose this will be a long thread, I want to convey the definition and tradition of Alevis, Bektashis and what did they do in Anatolia, their various Sufi masters, particularly Yunus Emre. I think he deserves attention of the West as Mevlana does and his unique humility, his life and works can be a good example for fellow seekers. Then I will describe who were the Luwians, why do I think they are related to Alevis and Hyperboreans. Perhaps we can touch a little bit on Paulicans and Cathars as well, if we follow more of Mr. Cinar's work . I hope you will enjoy it, and I hope I do not end up in Baked Noddles.

Even if you do not think the Hyperboreans are related to Alevis in the end, at least read it as a living esoteric Sufi tradition which has lots of values in itself and observe how similar they are to us...
 
Before I talk about Alevis, I want to quote this passage from Diodorus:

And there is also on the island both a magnificent sacred precinct of Apollo and a notable temple, which is adorned with many votive offerings and is spherical in shape.

Furthermore, a city is there which is sacred to this god, and the majority of its inhabitants are players on the cithara; and these continually play on this instrument in the temple and sing hymns of praise to the god, glorifying his deeds…

They say also that the moon, as viewed from this island, appears to be but a little distance from the earth and to have upon it prominences, like those of the earth, which are visible to the eye.

The account is also given that the god visits the island every nineteen years, the period in which the return of the stars to the same place in the heavens is accomplished, and for this reason the Greeks call the nineteen-year period the "year of Meton". At the time of this appearance of the god he both plays on the cithara and dances continuously the night through from the vernal equinox until the rising of the Pleiades, expressing in this manner his delight in his successes.

And the kings of this city and the supervisors of the sacred precinct are called Boreades, since they are descendants of Boreas, and the succession to these positions is always kept in their family.

Alevi tradition should be seperated from the Bektashi one and should be observed this way. Those traditions are so much mixed that it is hard to do it. That was the main problem of Erdogan Cinar. He was intimidated to seperate both of them and he said those traditions are brothers of each other. Well, maybe they are, I also found some interesting connections about the origin of Bektashis, but for now, lets start with Alevis.

I will use a Wikipedia article and I will comment at various places. Before starting, remember that this is the main history, but there is a secret history of Alevis. This is for giving you a little background material. Also keep in mind that Alevis are not agreed on one definition.

The Alevi are a religious, sub-ethnic and cultural community in Turkey, numbering in the tens of millions. Alevism is generally considered a sect of Shi'a Islam. However, Alevi worship takes place in assembly houses (cemevi) rather than mosques. The ceremony, âyîn-i cem or simply cem, features music and dance (semah) which symbolize the main planets around the Sun (by man and woman turning in circles) and the putting off of one’s self and uniting with God. In Alevism, men and women are regarded as equals, and pray side by side. Unlike most other Muslim practices, Alevi rituals are conducted mostly in Turkish, and some in Kurdish.

Since there is a Universality in the tradition, they are not an ethnic group. If someone wants to study with an Alevi master, their doors are open for every nationality, of course I am talking about true Alevis. There are those who are nationalist and even racist which is a complete contradiction of teaching. As we will soon see, they are probably not a religiuos group, it is more like a philosophical school. In addition to above, Alevis do not pray like other Muslims do, generally do not read Quran but there are always ones who want to read it. Generally they do not fast in Ramadan, it is optional. They believe in reincarnation(I learned this from Mr. Cinar's book).


Key Alevi characteristics include:

Love and respect for all people (“The important thing is not religion, but being a human being”)

Tolerance towards other religions and ethnic groups (“If you hurt another person, the ritual prayers you have done are counted as worthless”)

Respect for working people ("The greatest act of worship is to work”)

Some consider Alevism a sect of specifically Twelver Shi‘a Islam, since Alevis accept Twelver Shi‘i beliefs about Ali and the Twelve Imams. Some Alevis; however, are uncomfortable describing themselves as orthodox Shi‘i, since there are major differences in philosophy, customs, and rituals from the prevailing form of Shi‘ism in Iran and Iraq.

Alevism is also closely related to the Bektashi Sufi lineage, in the sense that both venerate Hajji Bektash Wali (Turkish: Hacibektaş Veli), a saint of the 13th century. Many Alevis refer to an "Alevi-Bektashi" tradition, but this identity is not universally accepted, nor is the combined name used by non-Turkish Bektashis (e.g., in the Balkans).

Now, here is something that I wanted to discuss:

"Alevi" is generally explained as referring to ‘Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib, cousin, son-in-law, and fostered son of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. The name is a Turkish, Zazaki and Kurdish pronunciation of ‘Alawī (Arabic: علوي‎) "of or pertaining to ‘Alī". However, the Turkish, Zazaki and Kurdish-speaking Alevi are not to be confused with the ‘Alawī of Syria, with whom they have little in common other than a shared veneration for ‘Alī.

An alternative (and less accepted) explanation for the name "Alevi" is that it comes from Turkish: alev "flame." Proponents of this view believe that Alevis come from ancient Anatolian people called "Luvis". These people were referred as "followers of light" in the Ottoman archives. According to this theory the name was an attempt to cloak themselves with an Islamic veil to avoid persecution.

The above quote is the main claim of Erdogan Cinar but there is more to it. If we look at ethymological rules of Turkish language, Alevi means those who originate from flame or those who support flame. If it is an Arabic word, then the term Alevi is true, but not in Turkish. Luvis in the article is of course, our Luwians. As the article says Ottoman archieves do not mention the word Alevi until around 16. century. Instead, there is the "followers of light" for defining a certain group. Who are those certain group, we do not know, but Alevis fit the description so far. Remember how they differ from Islamic tradition.

Despite this essentially Shi‘i orientation, much of Alevism's mystical language is inspired by Sunni traditions. For example, the Alevi concept of God is derived from the philosophy of Ibn al-'Arabi and involves a chain of emanation from God, to spiritual man, earthly man, animals, plants, and minerals. The goal of spiritual life is to follow this path in the reverse direction, to unity with God, or Haqq (Reality, Truth). From the highest perspective, all is God (see Wahdat-ul-Wujood). Alevis often admire Mansur Al-Hallaj, a 10th century Sufi executed in Baghdad for blasphemy for saying “I am Truth” (Ana al-Haqq).

This one has the assumption that no one can think this evolution of soul but Arabi, but I do not think it is too hard to think and Alevis may reach the conclusion without Arabi. Actually, I think Arabi and them posses the same source of knowledge which is Hyperboreans. 


Many Alevis would define the Perfect Human Being in practical terms, as one who is in full moral control of his or her hands, tongue and loins (eline diline beline sahip); treats all kinds of people equally (yetmiş iki millete aynı gözle bakar); and serves the interests of others. One who has achieved this kind of enlightenment is also called eren or munavver.

Eren is an important concept, we will see it as we go along. It can mean "those who achieved" or "those who ascend" at the same time.


The Alevi spiritual path (yol) is commonly understood to take place through four major life-stages, or "gates":

1. Sheriat (Sharia) ("religious law")
2. Tarikat ("spiritual brotherhood")
3. Marifat ("spiritual knowledge")
4. Hakikat ("Reality" or "Truth", i.e., God)

These may be further subdivided into "four gates, forty levels (dört kapı kırk makam). The first gate (religious law) is considered elementary (and in this we may perceive a subtle criticism of other Muslim traditions).

The following are major crimes that cause an Alevi to be declared düşkün (shunned):

killing a person
committing adultery
divorcing one’s wife
marrying a divorced woman
stealing

Most Alevi activity takes place in the context of the second gate (spiritual brotherhood), during which one submits to a living spiritual guide (dede, pir, mürşit). The existence of the third and fourth gates is mostly theoretical, though some older Alevis have apparently received initiation into the third.

I think those crimes are not reflecting the truth of community. If two person can not get along, what can they do but to divorce or what is wrong with marrying a divorced woman? I think if both sides are willing to do it, the others can not say anything, but if a person decides to leave his family without any reason, then he is shunned, or so I think. Those who shunned can come back when they resolved their issues and there is a special ceremony for them called "shunned gathering".

Four doors reflect exactly the moving from man 1,2,3 to 4, then 4 to 5 and 5 to 6. Finally the last door shows you reached your possible existence in this world which is man 7. The article reflects the truth when it says, today, there is not anyone who go beyond the tarikat(Also means path or road to God, reminds me the concept of Way in Gnosis series). I read the description of those doors and I saw they do not even know what is in third and fourth doors. They just keep repeating the requirements of first and second doors.

Sharia means religous law but its esoteric interpretation means having a true I. For example, there is an order, you have to be clean, but its esoteric interpretation is you should not have bad thoughts for other persons and do not even think to cause harm others.

Forty is an important number in Alevis since it symbolizes Forties as we will see:

The central Alevi corporate worship service is the cem . The ceremony's prototype is the Prophet Muhammad's nocturnal ascent into heaven, where he beheld a gathering of forty saints (Kırklar Meclisi), and the Divine Reality made manifest in their leader, Ali.

Semah, a family of ritual dances characterized by turning and swirling, is an inseparable part of any cem. It is performed by men and women, to the accompaniment of the bağlama.

The Rite of Integration (görgü cemi) is a complex ritual occasion in which a variety of tasks are allotted to incumbents bound together by extrafamilial brotherhood (musahiplik), who undertake a dramatization of unity and integration under the direction of the spiritual leader (dede).

The phrase mum söndü ("The candle went out") alludes to an accusation about a holy moment of some cem rituals in which twelve candles (representing the Twelve Imams) are doused with water. For centuries it has been widely spread among Sunnis to demean Alevis by accusing them of having orgies after blowing off the ritual candles.

This accusation has especially been used during the time of the Safavid-Ottoman conflict, as means to justify killing of the Qizilbash people, which were declared "infidels" by the Ottomans.

I will mention the gathering of forty saints in detail as we go along, but for now, just know that, it is the backbone of Alevi tradition. Gathering is not a ritual, actually. It symbolizes gathering of forty saints and what happens to the world from the beginning to the end. Bağlama, an instrument which resembles kithara or, lyre or lute if you want, I am not good at classifying instruments.

That is why I initially thought they are Hyperboreans(there are more clues, not just this one). At Hyperboreans, we see man and woman are dancing as equal. In other Sufi orders there is generally a seperation of them. They also play saz, bağlama which resembles kithara or lyre or lute. Of course, there are some differences because of geography. Their tradition primarily depends on love and light(not in New Age sense of course) which makes them good candidates for Luwians. There is a group in Ottoman archives that are referred as "followers of light". There is some ethymological dispute about the origin of the word.

I think the most important thing is this "The candle went out" claim which is truly disgusting and reminds me the accusations of Cathars. Also note that Alevis suffered and massacred in the hand of Ottoman Empire, especially at the time of Yavuz Sultan Selim who massacred 40.000 Alevis before going to the war with Safavids.

In contrast to the Bektashi tariqa, which like other Sufi orders is based on a silsila "initiatory chain or lineage" of teachers and their students, Alevi leaders succeed to their role on the basis of family descent. Perhaps ten percent of Alevis belong to a religious elite called ocak "hearth", indicating descent from ˤAlī and/or various other saints and heroes. Ocak members are called ocakzades or "sons of the hearth". This system apparently originated with Safavid Persia.

Alevi leaders are variously called murshid, pir, rehber or dede. Groups that conceive of these as ranks of a hierarchy (as in the Bektashi tariqa) disagree as to the order. The last of these, dede "grandfather", is the term preferred by the scholarly literature. Ocakzades may attain to the position of dede on the basis of selection (by a father from among several sons), character, and learning. In contrast to Alevi rhetoric on the equality of the sexes, it is generally assumed that only males may fill such leadership roles.

Traditionally dedes did not merely lead rituals, but led their communities, often in conjunction with local notables such as the ağas (large landowners) of the Dersim Region. They also acted as judges or arbiters, presiding over village courts called Düşkünlük Meydanı.

Ordinary Alevi would owe allegiance to a particular dede lineage (but not others) on the basis of pre-existing family or village relations. Some fall instead under the authority of Bektashi dargah (lodges).

In the wake of 20th century urbanization (which removed young laborers from the villages) and socialist influence (which looked upon the dedes with suspicion), the old hierarchy has largely broken down. Many dedes now receive salaries from Alevi cultural centers, which arguably subordinates their role. Such centers no longer feature community business or deliberation, such as the old ritual of reconciliation, but emphasize musical and dance performance to the exclusion of these. Dedes are now approached on a voluntary basis, and their role has become more circumscribed—limited to religious rituals, research, and giving advice.

Now we see, there are those dedes, meaning grandfathers, who possess the knowledge to be judge, landowner and etc. And perhaps, there has to be some genetic makeup to hold that position. Remember what Diodorus said:

And the kings of this city and the supervisors of the sacred precinct are called Boreades, since they are descendants of Boreas, and the succession to these positions is always kept in their family.

Alevi religious services, referred to collectively as cem or âyîn, include spiritual exercises that incorporate elements of zikr ("remembrance" or recitation of God's names, in this case without controlled breathing, but with some elements of body posturing) and sema (ritual dance). The latter is accompanied by sung mystical poetry in the vernacular, and by the sacred ritual instrument known as baglama or saz (a plucked folk lute with frets).

Such music is performed by specialists known as zâkir, asik, sazende or güvende, depending on regional usage. They are recruited from Alevi communities and descended from dede lineages. Many are also known to be poet/minstrels (asik, ozan) who perpetuate the tradition of dervish-lodge (tekke) poets such as Yunus Emre (13th century), Nesîmî (14th century), Pir Sultan Abdal, Hata'î and Genç Abdal (16th century) and Kul Himmet and Kul Hüseyn (17th century). The poetry was composed in the Turkish vernacular and follows the principles of folk prosody known as hece vezne in which the focus is the number of syllables.

The specialized sacred musical repertoire of Alevi musicians includes

Deyiş (songs of mystical love)
Nefes (hymns concerning the mystical experience)
Düvaz or dıwes imâm (hymns in honor of the 12 Alid imams)
Mersiye (laments concerning the martyrdom of Imam Huseyn at Karbala)
Miraclama (songs about the ascent of the Prophet Muhammad to heaven)
Sema (ritual dance accompanied by folk lutes and sung poetry)

The dances are performed with dignity by couples, and choreographies employ circle and line formations as well as arrangements where couples face one another, thus synchronizing their movements more closely. As the tempo of the music increases, the figures become more complex and intense. There are many regional variants of sema, but the most widespread and important are the Dance of the Forty (Kırklar Semah) and the Dance of the Cranes (Turnalar Semah).

I think that background and remeblances are enough for now. I suppose the only missing piece between Hyperboreans and Alevis are Apollo. Do Alevis worship Apollo? Well, do Hyperboreans worshiped Apollo? I do not think so. I think it was a symbol of knowledge and light as it was associated with sun or a hyperdimensional teacher. And to answer our first question: Yes, there is someone like Apollo in Alevi tradition, which is Ali as I will describe later.

At the next post, I will show some videos about gatherings, Alevi dances and Alevi music.

Note: There are some misuse of words in Wikipedia article. For example, there is a word asik, means lover, to describe the poets in Anatolia, but it is written as aik. The dances are also called semah but the writer of article writes it as sema which is the dance of Whirling Derwishes and although there are some resemblances, those two things are different.

Here is the link of Wikipedia article for those who want to read all of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alevism
 
Alevi literature and music have some amazing masterpieces. Well, at least I find them beautiful. I do not know what you will think. As I talk about music, I will talk about their legends as well. Also, I want to add something I did not mention in the first post. I do not claim that all Hyperboreans become Luwians and all Luwians become Alevis. They were generally minorities in those communities but there were times that they were seen as leader by a large number of people. Of course, after that they were massacred and those attempts lead more and more suffering.

I mentioned that there are various gatherings in Alevi tradition and its resons may be different according to needs. The first gathering was gathering of Forties. I remind you, there are Islamic elements in it to hide the truth from those who are not ready to hear it or for agents. In a sense, it is strategic enclosure. I took this piece from an article about Yunus Emre and Humanism, written by Turgut Durduran, a Turk so he is familiar with oral tradition of Yunus Emre, he does not believe in Islam and he is a scientist(but not an historian, he is more like an electrical engineer). This makes his writing style more objective and he is not tied into the idea to promote his article. It seems to me, he was writing it for fun. I will correct the wrong parts of the legend as needed.

Eyuboglu mentions an anecdote in which Muhammad wants to see the dervishes who are also beloved servants of God like him. Going to their tekke, he knocks on the door, and when he is asked for his identity , he replies "I am the Prophet". He receives a shocking answer; "Someone as grand as the Prophet would not fit into this door!".

First of all, this incident starts with Muhammed's "nocturnal ascent into heaven" as it was stated in wikipedia article. There are Alevi poems about how this event happened. God gave Gabriel(Cebrail in Islam) the mission to ascend Muhammed to heaven. Cebrail brings Burak a winged horse(seems this Pegasus figure was quite popular). The horse takes Muhammed into the Jerusalem in a second. Then God ordered Muhammed to leave the horse behind to ascend, but after he walks(or ascents?) for a while, he encounters a lion. He asks God what to do and God orders him to take out his ring, called hatem which symbolizes his messenger legacy, and give the ring to the lion. After he does that, lion permits the passage.

He reaches God but how can he see the God? Does God have any appearance? Well he can take any form he wants. He was a burning bush for Moses. Some believe that God take the form of Ali because he was the most loved one for Prophet Muhammed. Also, this legend is not a common dervish legend or a part of general Sufi tradition. This is unique to Alevis since they are the only ones following it.

Just when he is about to give up, God suggests that he should try once more; "I am God's ambassador", he says. "No thanks, we have nothing do to with ambassadors." Muhammed is again shocked and angry, but God asks him to try once more. This time he says "I am the servant of the poor" which gains him enterance into the tekke.

Trying three times routine is not in original legend. He says "I am prophet" and they say "Be a prophet for your people, we do not need one." After that, he says I am a servant of poor and he comes in.

Curious as he is; Muhammed asks, "Who are you? What do you do?", "We the 'Forty Persons', are all united to each other; what is one of us, is all of us. If one of us bleeds, we all bleed together." When Muhammed asked for evidence, one of the dervishes cuts his arm with a knife and they all bleed together.

Mr. Durduran says one dervish but this dervish is actually Ali himself. He cuts his arm a little for proof and he does all the talk. Also Muhammed asks them: "who is the elder in your group and who is the lower." The answer is: "We do not have elders and lowers in our group. Our elders and lowers are both divine."

It is now the turn of Muhammed to be examined to prove that he really is the servant of the poor. One dervish gives him a single grape and asks him to divide it for forty of them. Muhammed is confused and asks God for help, who sends Gebrail with a bowl of "nur" (blessed light) from heaven so that Muhammed can crush the grape and make wine out of it. After Muhammed is done, he divides the wine for 40 dervishes and himself, and they all became drunk and ecstatic. After whirling with Muhammed for hours, Muhammed's hat falls off and they divide that into 40 pieces and made belts for themselves, demonstrating their belief that Muhammed is really the servant of the poor.

Muhammed specifically banned drinking wine but he does there. Of course, Alevis who love Muhammed would say its symbolic but I think Muhammed was a later addition to this story. Probably, Alevis tried to find a gap in Muhammed's life and thought this ascent business is good. The rest of the story that was not written by Mr. Durduran:

After the dance, Muhammed asks those who present there, "Who is your teacher then?" They say "Our teacher is Ali." So Muhammed learns Ali is there with him. Then Ali gives him the ring that Muhammed put into lion's mouth, meaning Ali was the lion and he has Muhammed's messenger powers but gives it back. Ali is also known as the "lion of Allah" in Alevis and in other groups I suppose. Now this story is interesting but take out all Muhammed parts. I think this was a hyperdimensional story without Muhammed or Ali as we know it. There are other interesting poems about this event that I will share in this post.

Alevis have many form of dances in their gatherings and those dances are called semah. I searched youtube for various semahs and most of them does not have a good quality but I will post some. This below has a good song, the song and movements are important, but this semah was done by Cem Foundation which becomes more politic and more ponerized in years, many of the Alevis oppose this foundation, saying it harms Alevis.

The movements of dance can change from region to region in Anatolia but this semah lacks most essential elements and also there are some additions. I will post another semah with same song from an Anatolian village and I will translate it for you. For now, just let me say, the girl in the middle symbolizes crane, since the second, fast part of song is about a crane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xicrMVKnXHs

Now, lets see the more original version of the song. This video is quite long and it has another song-a Bektashi song but those Alevis use it to show how they suffer which fits perfectly to following songs- at the beginning, which is also a good song and I may translate it later but lets skip it for now. What I am talking about starts at the time 04:18.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs9FSCFc71k

Notice the girl in the middle turns again, but at the same time, she gives something to the crowd. As she gives it, dancers around her turn their faces to the crowd and give away what this girl gave to them. Then dancers turn to the girl and she crosses her arms. Now, I first thought she gives some energy to the crowd that she obtained by turning and the dancers around her act like conductors for efficient transmittance but at the same time, song implies something else. The song asks for help and I also think when the dancers give the energy to the crowd, they receive the "ask for help" of the crowd, give it to the girl in the middle and she accepts it by crossing her arms and she transmits it to higher densities to receive help. I may be wrong, but I think what Hyperboreans did when this helical rising of Pleiades, as Laura stated which happened one time after cataclysmic events and ended up with celebration, is something like this. The song says:

You made me walk with open head and bare foot,
You show mercy my love, whose lips are made of honey
You have rotten my heart like a walnut
Your love bend my long body

Open head, bare foot symbolizes the way dervishes are. It is not only how they dress, they also do not posses anything and do not need anything. So after all those suffering, this guy asks something. He asks for mercy so something more than simple dervish stuff must have happening. He also call his love whose lips are made of honey. It means someone who conveys the most beautiful words and knowledge, or so I think.

When you see a walnut in a Sufi text, stop right there. It symbolizes esoteric tradition in many schools in East. Its because walnut has a hard outer part but its inner part is delicious and useful for health, or it was believed to be healthy during those times. Since, I am coming from an esoteric school because of my family, Alawi in first wikipedia article but I do not believe it now, and initiated(I was not a very good student if you ask my "master" because I understood that he says some idiotic things and I questioned the doctrine) and walnut example was conveyed to me as well. I think the writer of this poem fused his lower and higher emotional center in a fully developed magnetic center. Then they say your love bend my long body which is about humility, or so I think.

Do not make me suffer, do not let the fire burn me
I have lost my mind and go crazy
Do not left me wandering in this lonely corner
My master, who is a safe place and who carries beauty

This verse was especially hard and I may lost some meaning of it. Notice that there were fires going around. Then poet says his mind is lost. Being crazy is not such a bad thing in Sufis. There is a tale in East, a woman Leyla and a man Kays fall in love but they could not find each other. Over time, Kays took the name Mecnun which means crazy in Arabic. He was not actually crazy but he appeared as crazy to the other people who could not understand why he suffered so much for his love. This story actually shows the relationship between God and dervishes. They suffer more and more to reach God but they are crazy for the rest of the world. Of course, now Sufism is like a fashion so no one calls them crazy.

"Lonely corner" was a hard word for me. Those words are a mixture of Arabic and Turkish and I have some hard time to choose which meaning to use because there are lots of double meanings. What I called lonely could be translated as One or Only but those did not fit, so I have chosen it. To be honest, I do not trust my translating abilities. At last part they call their master(also can mean my owner, my protector etc. but "veli" means in Turkish and in Sufi tradition someone who is a true friend of God. It is someone who passed third and fourth doors or beyond, thats why I translated it as a master) safe place and someone who carries beauty.

Sıdkı, do not burn my life with spoken words
The treasure can not be find with superstitions
With torn apart shirt and old shawl
How can my state be like this, my love

Now, before I comment on this verse, I want to share a dilemma I encounter if it does not bore you guys. I searched who wrote this poem and find out this guy was not someone I would call great masters of his time. He has another poem that I will share as well, which was one of the most interesting things in Alevi tradition. Sıdkı word here is the name of writer, every Anatolian poem ends with the writer saying his name at the last verse.

Alevis use this Sıdkı guy's poems in many of their songs and think it has divine meanings. Erdogan Cinar says a poem of this guy can be read only in secret meetings but later revealed to the world. The information I received indicates this divine meaning that is attributed to this guy is simply a misunderstanding. According to researchers he says fourteen years instead of fourteen thousand years and he is not saying something important, he just mentions his name change and that particular poem become the most famous poem of Alevis. They do not mention that there are other poets who give reference to fourteen thousand year period for a similar incident. 

It seems to me, this particular guy was not the one who wrote those poems, he is copying a master's work or he is a smoke screen. I know how it is easy to lead me astray and my wishful thinking can effect this decision of mine. I am not comfortable with making this decision and I wanted you to know, and be aware of my possible wishful thinking. This stealing indentity incident was done to another famous Alevi poet, Shah Hatayi whom Alevis respect and use his poems, was considered to be Shah Ishmael who was the leader of Safavids. He was Shi'a and he also killed Alevis after using them, but today, many Alevis believe Shah Hatayi was Shah Ishmael which can not be true. I suspect there is a similar deal for this Sıdkı guy but I am not sure.

If we go back to poem, they refuse all the paths that claim divinity which is fake, they turn to their master, their love again, asking for help and the song finishes like this.

After that, fast part starts. Notice right away that the girl in the middle changed her turning style. Now, she does not have any arm movement. She seems like a crane, turning with open arms. Of course, the dance symbolizes crane but I also think, the access of higher energies and protection is granted and it is a celebration dance. The dance of the other people are also changed because of this celebration. The song has some Islamic elements as well but it basically says:

It is like you come from the Karbala desert
You sing so painfully because of seperation, my crane
By following the order of Imam Ali
You dance the semah of Forties, my crane

Karbala desert is where Hussein, son of Ali was massacred with his companions and Alevis mourn that day. The interesting thing is, Hussein was beheaded and remember, I told you how Ali and Apollo are the same for Alevis. There is a similarity right here. A son of Apollo, Orpheus was beheaded and a son of Ali, Hussein was beheaded. For more information, here is a source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Karbala

The Forties are always together with you
I wish you reach your service to Sevens
And Prophet Hizir shall help you
You reach to the help of Saved People, my crane

I forgot to mention that there are some degrees in Forties but I am not sure. There are just vauge references in the poems. There are threes, fives and sevens(all are prime numbers) and finally forties. Prophet Hizir is believed to be a prophet who drank the water of eternal life in heaven and sent to the earth with a mission to help those who need it. Quran contains a story about Moses travelling with Hizir. Alevis think Hizir is a divine person, similar to their dervishes. Alevis refer themselves as "Saved People" but was this saving is one time thing in the past or for all times, it is a little vauge.   

The voice of Ali is found in you
How painful you sing, my heart is pierced
Go, get a news from our master and come back now
Please take the grief out of my soul, my crane

The crane carries the voice of Ali but he is not actually Ali. It is a symbol of it and serves as messenger, or so I think.

When the spring and summer moons rise up
When you start to do semah and get onto the sky
When falcons hit your feathers
You will sing like: "my Ali, friend friend", my crane

Because of double meaning moon can mean month in Turkish. There is "rise up" which indicates moon is the correct one and there is "spring and summer" which indicates month is the correct one. I leave this decision to you, I have no idea which one is true.

Dedemoglu here writes his own massacre
He sits and figure outs the deceptions of white giant
Mecnun travels the desert for Leyla
You have to give your life to reach your beloved, my crane

Dedemoglu is the name of the poet as usual. Him writing his own massacre is an interesting concept but I think it is related to kill Personality and reveal true I. White giant business completely baffled me. Everybody use their own words at this part and there are three different versions of it. I use deception but there are at least three possible meanings of that word and I am not sure I translated white giant correctly. I searched every single reference of white giant. All I found was a story of a man killing various giants and one of them- an unimportant one by the way- was white. I mentioned Leyla and Mecnun to you, which is the greatest love story of all East. Here there is a clear Sufi reference of sacrifice, meaning you have to sacrifice some part of yourself or suffer in desert to reach your beloved.

After that importance to crane, who do you think the crane is? Erdogan Cinar believes crane is Hermes and its equivalent Thoth in Egypt referring to the verses of Pir Sultan Abdal:

The voice of our master Ali
Is in a bird called crane
His staff is in Nile
And his garment is at a dervish

Well, it quite fits but I knew Pir Sultan Abdal was one of the Bektashis so I made my own research and stumbled upon various references of crane. I think this fits best:

Celtic Symbols:

In Celtic lore, Fionn has the task of reclaiming the Crane Bag, an Otherworldly treasure of great power. The Crane bag is similar to the Holy Grail, in that it is searched for and disappears and appears without explanation.
...
To Northern Europeans, cranes were known as the "messengers beyond the north winds" as to Northern Europeans they were harbingers of Spring.

Because migrating cranes often fly at night, by the light of the moon, they are also associated with the Moon Goddess Artemis. The Crane is sacred to Apollo, the Greek Sun God and twin to Artemis.

Hermes, the Greek Messenger God, was inspired to invent writing by watching the flight patterns of cranes; and Thoth, the Egyptian counterpart to Hermes is depicted with the head of an Ibis. Thoth is the Egyptian god of writing.

http://irelandsown.net/crane.html

The crane is Thoth for Bektashis because their order is coming from Hermes Trimestigus, Egypt, and probably Ishmaelis.
The crane is related to Ali and Apollo for Alevis because their knowledge is coming from Hyperboreans, or so I think.


You know, those were really professional semahs. I want to post one, which was taken from a village, really unprofessional but its naturality is pleasant, or so I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvxbLUq27Hs&feature=related

Finally, my last piece will be the poem of our old friend Sıdkı, whom I think was a smokescreen for a master. This is not a semah, it is just a song but maybe those of you who wants to be familiar with the voice of saz might want to listen to it. At first you might think the guy is making the song up by playing randomly but he is not. This is the ultimate song of a saz.

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/haydar/video/x16iq5_cetin-akdeniz-haydar-haydar_music

I travelled fourteen thousand years in mothness
I heard your truthful name in craziness
I drank your wine in drunkenness
I fell into a tough situation at the gathering of Forties

I put my essence into the Saved People
I come and go many times in the form of human
I became a nightingale and sing at the garden of Eden
I fell into weakness for roses quite some time

Well, those words are quite something. First of all, there is not double, but triple meaning here. If we accept all of the Alevis say this thing wrong, it means this poem is describing someone who changed his name after fourteen years and left the name Pervane(moth), took the name Sıdkı(truthful). I already told you something that ordinary, can not be a poem that is loved by everybody and rest of the thing does not fit. Another meaning is when I wrote truthful name, I could write Sıdkı, meaning the name of poet but it is not the last verse so I dismissed it and decided to write it like this. 

I know there is no "mothness", this is something English can not provide me. Moth is a bug which is attracted to a light at night as you know. Alevis also see themselves and associate themselves with moths since they try to reach light in this dark world. Mothness is a state where a seeker is travelling or turning around a divine light. Again, craziness is not such a bad thing among Sufis. This guy, I think is "us" who made a mistake and lost its position at gathering of Forties. A different form of Fall from Eden but I am not sure.

I suppose the second part is obvious. Putting essence, soul etc. into Saved People and reincarnation cycle after that. They also associate themselves with nightingale which is a common theme of Sufis. They say they sing for roses but its thorns make them suffer. The thing I translated as Garden of Eden was not like this. İt is actually Garden of Firdevs(sixth floor of heaven in Islam) but I do not think those are too much different.

I think this is it for now. At next post I will tell you why I think Apollo and Ali are the same. I started a little but there is more to it. I will also continue to post some new poems that are related to our subject and expand it a little.
 
I stated previously that I think Apollo was the name Hyperboreans used for divine knowledge and Ali was the same in Alevis. I mentioned a few similarities between them and we will continue.

First of all, there are some similarities between sons of Apollo and sons of Ali. I am not saying they are exact but there are interesting connections. Ali has two sons, Hasan and Hussein. Hasan was poisoned by her wife for political reasons, the order came from Muaviye, founder of Emevi Caliph Dynasty. Recall, wifes murdering their husbands is a common theme in Greek mythology especially for Danaans.

Hussein was beheaded by the army of Muaviye’s son, Yezid. It is also a similar incident to beheading of Orpheus because of his opposition to Dionysus.

There is another son of Ali, who never borned. After Muhammed died, Fatimah, the daughter of Muhammed refused to acknowledge Abu Bakr as caliph and Umar tried to get into the house to force her. Here is that claim:

Shia historians hold that Umar called for Ali and his men to come out and swear allegiance to Abu Bakr. When they did not, Umar broke in, resulting in Fatimah's ribs being broken by being pressed between the door and the wall causing her to miscarry Muhsin which led to her eventual death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatima_Zahra#Caliphate_of_Abu_Bakr

I did not see any reference of Muhsin in Alevis but he is a sacred person for Alawis. I was thinking he resembles Askleipos whose mother was killed by Artemis but he survived. Note that, I do not mean those are exactly same stories. One is legend which symbolizes things we do not understand and the other is history, but those resemblances might have helped Alevis to cover some of their truths and made them associate Apollo with Ali.

Also notice the crane analysis above and how Celts thought crane symbolizes a part of Apollo and considered to be a messenger. This is another clue in itself.

We find those things in songs but there is a living tradition going on in Anatolia. In the city Tunceli, which was used to be Dersim but renamed after a massacre was done to the people of that city in 1938. One has to wonder, did they know something that deserved massacre in the eyes of control system? The apperant reason is Republic’s concept of society did not fit into theirs but I think the real reason was quite different and Turkish government had no idea of implications of it.

In Dersim, Alevis come out of their houses before sunrise and they pray facing to the rising sun, consider it as divine light of Ali. First time I read that claim, I was suspcious but two people from Dersim said this was true and they are doing the same thing today and one of them claimed this tradition has its traces in other Alevi communities around Anatolia. “The sun is not a worship object here, it shows a direction, it is a tool.” they say. Here is a quote from Irene Melikoff ,a son is talking about his father, both of them Alevis:

Throughout his life, he get out of the house with dawn and pray to Ali with rising sun. When the sun rise up he said “Look Ali is rising.”

[Irene Melikoff, Uyur idik Uyardılar, We were Asleep and They woke us up, Cem Publishing. Page 124, ] I am not sure whether there is one that is not in Turkish and how it is translated but Irene Melikoff was believed to be one of the best researchers about Alevi tradition.

Here, another poems about Ali:

I reached knowledge and I will not turn back for eternity
The most beautiful light came to life inside my heart
I found in myself all the lights in the sky and the moon
They said, thid thing you see is the face of Ali.

Ali Murtaza Topal Dede[Secret History of Alevis, page 55]

In the sun of the Creator, in the hidden secrecy
Ali was a secret beyond the time and place
He possesses the mystery of Creation’s hidden treasure
Ali was in existence before the world existed

Angels are formed from his light
He asked Cebrail, “who are you”
Cebrail could not know and his wings are burned
Ali was a light in the sun at that time

Devrani[Secret History of Alevis, page 57]

Cebrail here is not an angel in the monotheistic religion sense. I will share another poem concerned with this asking question and can not answer incidence but lets remember in Sıdkı’s poem, one guy “fell into a tough situation at the gathering of Forties” and this guy, as a result lost its place in Forties. I told you how it was similar to Fall from Eden. C’s use Lucifer to define that incident and there is no Lucifer in Islam so I think Alevis are using Gabriel for same event.

Now, what I am about to write is a poem but its hard to convey. Erdogan Cinar written it in understandable form and I will translate it to you:

When the skies and earth were formed, the divine secret at the beginning was given to the spritual guide and it was asked “who are you and who am I” At that moment the blood appeared all over it. Cebrail told “You are you and I am me” but this answer was not its teacher’s doctrine demanded so it wandered in the sky for fourteen thousand years. Then it came to a point where it could not stand anymore and it came to the point of acceptance. At that moment, a voice came from unknown realms, “Cebrail, hear my words and tell: ‘You are the creator and I am the created’ right away!” When it said that its black color turned into hazelnut. Divine teachers searched seven flooors of earth, looked at mountains and under stones, but creator hidden itself into the human, whomever looked for its higher place in the skies obtained nothing.

Asik Veli[Secret History of Alevism, page 93]

Again, you can see fourteen thousand year period so it was not a unique thing to Sıdkı. Considering Asik Veli lived a hundred year before our fake Sıdkı we can see who copies and confuses. I want to say, this “You are the created and I am the creator” thing surprised me. This is supposed to be a philosophy who believes that everything is creator and there is no distinction, so what did this guy tried to convey? I think this distinction means knowing your place. Like, we can not create our own reality because we trust the Universe will give us what we need. It is widely discussed in Darkness Over Tibet that a person sins against god with that kind of behaviour.

This “Cebrail” did something like this and taken out of Forties and it wandered fourteen thousand year period. After that it came into existence in the form of human, not any human actually, it put its essence into Saved People. There are things I could not figure out in above story like color changes and blood appearance so any insight is welcomed. I thought about coming into a physical existence but I am not sure.


Havva and Naciye

Now, this is one of the most interesting concepts in Alevism. Havva here is what you know as Eve and Naciye is the female form of Naci. I told you Alevis refer themselves as Saved People. Its Turkish-Arabic equivalent that is used in their poems is Guruh-u Naci. So Naci means Saved but at the same time Alevis believe humans have two divisions. One of them is lineage of Eve and the other is lineage of Naciye. I will translate a talk from Pir Nizar Daylemi, here is the link but its in Turkish:

_http://www.aleviweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33510

To this day, humanity comes from two separate divisions. One of them is Mother Naciye division and the other is Mother Eve division. Those divisions are separated from each other and their Gods are also different. The God of Eve division is proven in the creatures. The God of Naciye division is proven at the time of birth. Whomever can not prove himself/herself in the birth does not exist and does not have any name. Those who disappear are the ones who can not prove themselves in this world. They are the ones who are created from nothing. Those who  do not call their mother’s birth door, "the door of Truth" are impure. They are those who put their name in the book of Denial.

Know thyself, seeker!

Kill your ambition, kill your nefs[similar to Predator’s Mind among Alevis]. Kill it so you can be born again. Born again means waking up. Abandon the sleep! Waking up means knowing yourself. Can someone who know nothing about himself/herself know the Truth?

Those who can not see the God inside themselves are empty hives. Those empty hives are the home of devil and it does not contain any honey in it. Those who know the Truth, those who can see the God in themselves in existence have hives filled with honey. Truth has them and they have it. The thing what makes them walk, that hides them from bad behaviours and bad situations and protect them is Truth.

Pir Nizar Daylemî


From this quote, let me say Alevis believe Eve had 36 daughters and 36 sons, and all of them formed nations. This nation is not in the sense we are thinking. Alevis believe they are the 73. nation and they are seperated from the others. They refuse the God of Eve and have their own God. See the high level of women among Alevis. They think a mother giving birth to a child possesses the door of Truth. When I say Truth with a capital,  I mean this is a Name of God that Alevis use in their poem. It means truth but at the same time, it is God’s name so I translate it as Truth because Alevis refer the truthfulness of their God in that part.

There is a place says “Know thyself talip!” Talip means someone who demands in Turkish. In here it refers to someone who is an esoteric student, who demands truth and I translated it as seeker, which is the same thing in meaning.

I do not know what you think about above quote but let me say I do not think this is about souled individuals and organic portals. I think this is about being an Hyperborean descendant or not. Laura stated this difference before in Return of Mongols Series and it quite fits to above quote about "proof in creatures" and "proof in birth" difference:

The issue does not seem to be one of skin color or "race," (which is a ridiculous term as it is currently used). It is more an issue of the difference between human beings who have "something" inside as opposed to those who don't have this "something."

When this "something" is analyzed, it reveals a fundamental difference in "being" that is most easily expressed as those who worship something outside themselves, vs those who don't worship any god or thing outside themselves because they cannot worship outside what is inside.

There are behavioral clues to the different natures of the two polarities, and it seems that the real reason that those who are of the so-called Aryan bloodlines, often "rise to the top" in many cultures for the simple reason that they have more potent "power cells" - mitochondria - that energize their bodily functions, producing greater "heat" and activity. This "rising to the top" can be positive, or it can be negative.

This poses a unique problem: very energetic negatively oriented beings have many advantages in this world over very energetic positive beings due to the fact that the former have no "moral imperative." For them, the material world is all there is: in their core being, they worship the material universe represented by a god who is "outside" of them, and inner reflection and analysis so as to determine if they are conducting themselves in such a way so as to return to the inner "Origin" - or Edenic state - has no real meaning for them.

Many religions have been created that promise salvation or heaven via an intermediary, and these concepts are appealing to the negative orientation, but the deep, internal conviction that this can and must be accomplished by cultivating that divine spark within does not exist for them. They may claim that it does, but their actions do not match their words. Their thinking is "legalistic," and the best way to describe is is that they "strain at gnats and swallow camels."

Again, the important point is: those with the spark of the divine within cannot worship outside what is inside. No matter how hard they may try to "have faith" in this god or that god who has promised to save them, that divine spark within will constantly agitate, asking questions and casting doubts. Such individuals carry the bloodline - the genetic traits - to manifest the Origin - the Hyperboreans.

I want to finish this post with a few verse of Yunus Emre. This writing style is called Shathiye. Poet tells idiotic and absurd things to convey the truth. I am not writing all of it, there is more to it.

I climbed to the branches of a plum tree,
And I helped myself to the grapes up there.
The owner of the orchard scolded me:
"What are you devouring my walnuts for?"

This verse was analyzed by mighty scholars and they agreed that Yunus is referring esoteric tradition with walnuts as I stated above.

I dumped sun-baked mud into the cauldron
And boiled it together with the North Wind.
"What on earth could this thing be?" asked someone;
Dipping the grapes I put them in his hand.

Those are not translated by me. I am careful to protect meaning instead of beauty of poet but this guy is not. The guy says “And boiled it together with the North Wind.” but poem also gives the meaning it was the North Wind which boiled the cauldron, so there is a double meaning here. Later Yunus actually says: “When someone asked me what it is, I give the essence of it to that person.”

A fly caught an eagle, lifted it high--
And smack onto the ground, a thumping thrust.
What I tell you is the truth, not a lie:
With my own eyes I saw the rising dust.

These are the words that Yunus had to say,
His resembles no other utterance;
To keep it out of the hypocrites' way
He has put the veil on the face of sense.

My translation: “Yunus, you told those words that do not resemble any other word. They hide your true, meaningful face from those who can not understand the truth of them.”

I was thinking, with reference to North Wind, he was pointing out his origin…
 
Lets expand this Forty gathering a little bit and lets look at a few interesting poem.

Erdogan Cinar has various claims that you may find interesting. The first one is:

In Alevi tradition, human existence has two periods; at first of them human is a form of energy without a body, human was light(ancient sacred light). At second period human evolves with turnover method and he lives this period with physical existence[Secret History of Alevis, page 72]

Turnover, here means reincarnation in Anatolian terms. Notice obvious reference to short and long wave cycle here.

Erdogan Cinar says, there is a classification of secrets among Alevis:

Ilm-el Yakin: Little secrets that can be obtained with knowledge and mind

Ayn-el Yakin: Big secrets that the truth of it can not be experienced completely

Hakk-el Yakin: The secrets that hold the true meaning of existence.

He says Tevella and Teberra secret is given to those who reached Ayn-el Yakin,. This secrets means those Islamic elements are smokescreen to hide the truth and a person should always keep a certain distance with those who do not share their belief. [Secret History of Alevis, page 56]

There is another secret called Sehakum and related to our “Cebrail”:

After human beings completed their evolution on another planet, they transferred their essence and appearance into the humanoids on this planet genetically. After that they get into those humanoids and descend to earth with this way. [Secret History of Alevis, page 72]

Erdogan Cinar also claims that the ancestors of Alevis are aliens that first appeared on a green planet, then they lost their home and come to the earth to stay here. There are also poems about it at page 89 but I do not think I can translate them.

If you look at all those information above, you can see there is a confusion in Erdogan Cinar’s mind. His knowledge of aliens are probably coming from Sitchin’s book but he does a good job by finding some truth, or so I think.

He knows long and short wave cycles and describe them quite plainly, this is for certain.
He first said human beings completed their evolution. If they did that, why should they want to live here? It seems to me there are two seperate events here. First is, there were human beings on a green planet but they lost it and they came earth to stay here. This guys were ancestors of Alevis.

Second one says there was a divine being at gathering of Forties who put its essence into those people and created Naciye Division, Saved People.

I think at first this divine being put its essence into those people and created Naciye division. After that, people of that green planet lost their home and came here to live in earth. They also bringed their tradition with them and they took the name Hyperboreans. Notice the similarity between green planet and Celts love of green. Also there are green motifs in Alevis. They believe Ali has a green mole at his forehead and another one at his hand. Hajji Bektash also has both of them according to legends.

This conclusion disprove my Fall from Eden hypothesis for this guy in Forties, but this is definitely another possibility, maybe a more likely one.

Here are some excerpts strating from page 95 concerned with genetics:

Another issue that draw attention is at the transmittance of genetic traits to the chosen creatures, the carrier of those trait is simply blood. Putting ones essence into another, coming from a soul to another soul was always done with blood.

I become Adam and get into a human
If Truth permits me through the blood
When I was wandering from blood to blood like crazy
I encounter a blood that is inside the blood

I ate the food of Truth and I am full
I put my life and my head for the way of my master
I gave away this life and get another one
I hide this life inside of my life

Virani

The people who wrote those poems are called Asik(lover). Erdogan Cinar claims their original name was Isik(light) but after the pressures of Ottoman Empire, they took the name Asik with one letter change. There are various poems about this incident also:

We are lovers, we are lights, truthfully we are poor
We are crazies, we are the passionates who encounter the cruelty of fortune

Ottoman Empire archives call those guys "a group which is more dangerous than infidels". So they start to take different names. One of them was calling themselves Erens of Khorasan, a region in Iran. This supports the view of Alevis coming from Central Asia but Erdogan Cinar says people either take the name where they live or they are referred by their homes. Khorasan was not a place Turks stayed, they just came and passed, but Khorasan also means the "place of sun" in Persian according to Mr. Cinar.

I suppose that is all I could share about this particular book, Secret History of Alevis. Rest of it seems leading astray part. Erdogan Cinar also has two or three more books about those subjects, one of them is "The Lost Millennium of Alevis". I could not get them yet, I do not know what they talk about but I have a general idea coming from the discussions on Internet which is about what Luwians did before they came to be Alevis. This will be the subject of the next post and I will also tell you why I think Hyperboreans are Luwians.
 
When I was reading Laura's Return of Mongols series, I understood that the original Troy was in England but there is another Troy, here in Turkey. There are those same names that Homer mentioned which exist here, in Aegean Sea. So I thought there has to be some migration to carry the names of those places. Actually, Laura said the same thing in this particular series but I could not find where it is. It seems to me, Laura thought the migration occurred through Greece in particular. She also says Eurasia and Near East but that part is a little vague.

Well, I have no doubt that a majority of Hyperboreans went to Greece and stayed there, but also another group of Hyperboreans stayed in Anatolia, especially western Anatolia where they had a chance of close communication with their "Greek" brothers and sisters.

During that time, there was an Aryan group there, which were the relatives of Hittites and they had close relations during time to time. They were called Luwians, Luvi in Turkish. They had a very distinct Indo-European language. I do not know whether you can see it or not but I think those Luwians, are actually Levites, Levi in Turkish. Indo-European origin, and Hittite connection and word similarities led me to that conclusion. Obviously, I would not want Alevis to be considered as Levites since those guys were a little violent.

I think there is a connection but some things changed when Hyperboreans came and intermix with them. Besides, today there is only a small minority of Turkey can understand and exercise what we are talking about here. Most of them can not even comprehend basic things. You see, there is a duality here. I mentioned this because I want to make the connection between Bektashis and Ishmaelis first.

...Now, in another direction, what's this deal about Abraham talking to God. Is this where the whole monotheism came in?
A: Close.
Q: (L) So, it started out with Abraham and his tribe. Did he have reinforcements of his Levite brothers who came and joined his tribe from Hittite land?
A: Close.

Here is my hypothesis: When Abraham was in Egypt, he called his supporters from Anatolia which were Luwians. They came and stayed there, obtained a little wisdom there and learned Hermetic tradition. After that Hagar-Sarah conflict began and those who support Ishmael’s legacy abandoned Egypt, traveled to east. A certain group of them familiarized themselves with other esoteric traditions in that area and formed their own synthesis. They remain hidden for some time. After a while, when Islam spread, they sided with Shi’a tradition. When the succession of Imams came to seventh Imam, there was a conflict. Sixth Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq had a son Ishmael that he wanted to make the next Imam but Ishmael died so he declared his other son Musa al-Kazim is the seventh Imam. A small group in Shi’a refused it and they began to call themselves Ishmaelis to refer the legacy of seventh Imam but I suppose in truth they were referring to their origin coming from Abraham. They continued like this for some years, live with Shi’a, but Seljuks tried to destroy Ishmaelis so a leader called Hassan Sabbah took the Alamut castle in Northern Syria and collect some Ishmaelis there. They protected themselves and they spread, but Mongols destroyed them eventually and burned their library which is believed to possess divine secrets.

Some of Alevi researchers believe an Ishmaeli dai(means teacher) called Hajji Bektash Veli came to Anatolia with a group of Ishmaeli. The rest is my idea: When the Islamic pressure increased Alevis used Hajji Bektash as a cloak, they referred him as their master, some say he is the same with Ali. They pretend to accept Islam in the name of Hajji Bektash, created legends about him to show his superiority to other people. Also there were followers of Hajji Bektash and they influenced Alevi culture to some extent. When things get heated, in general, Bektashis revolt and Alevis paid the price along with them.

I said some Hyperboreans came into Western Anatolia where they had close communication chance with their “Greek” relatives and they gave the Northern European names to the places around them. Luwians later built the city of Troy in Anatolia, this is a known fact:

1700-1250/30 (Troy VI) Trojan High Culture (1)
New immigrants, probably Luwian-speaking, plunder old ruins to make new city; Troy becomes major trade center and producer of horses, pottery, and wool. The famed citadel walls were built about 1470, possibly in response to military threats from outside, possibly as beautification or markers of royal prerogative. At the end of this period the citadel suffers extensive destruction, perhaps due to earthquake, fire, or attack, but thereafter the same pottery styles continue to be produced.



1250/30-1180 (Troy VIIa) Trojan High Culture (2)
Troy, apparently still occupied by Luwians continuing their old way of life, is utterly destroyed in 1180 and completely burned.

http://www.anthro.ucsd.edu/~dkjordan/arch/troydates.html


Orpheus’s story of beheading is an interesting story. It may be an event in Northern Europe but I sense a similar event also occured in Anatolia. This sect of Orpheus sounds really similar to the one of Alevis. “Revealing secrets that belong to Apollo” is probably what all of Alevis say if you change Apollo into Ali. The myth I know says Orpheus refused to take women into ceremonies but I think what is meant was something else. Laura said Helen of Troy and those other women who lead cities into destruction are weapons that could be used for good in the hands of Hyperboreans and destroy everything in the hands of Atlanteans. I think Orpheus refused to use this thing, even for good and this thing turned against him, at least that is what was done in Anatolia. With destroying Troy and Luwian civilization, they cut off the head of Orpheus, meaning Hyperborean tradition and the head, still singing, went to Lesbos Island. Of course after that, it came back.

In his other books, Erdogan Cinar claim Paulicians were actually Luwians and they used Christianity as Alevis used Islam today. He claims Silvanus, who was the leader of Paulicians was the source of Pir Sultan Abdal myth in Anatolia. Here is the legend of Pir Sultan Abdal, I will make corrections as we go along:

In the 16th Century, Pir Sultan Abdal emerged as a folk hero who raised his poetic voice against oppression and injustice. Among many generations of Turkish rebel-poets he stands as a towering figure.

He was a powerful member of a Shiite sect opposed to the Ottoman ruling establishment which belonged to the Sunni mainstream. (“Pir” means “sage” and “abdal” a dervish-troubadour, and “Sultan” is a reference, not to a monarch, but to a spiritual leader.) There is virtually no reliable document about his life. Only his poems have survived in the oral tradition – and several legends about him.

He was not in Shiite sect, he was in a Bektashi sect which is related to Sufism. This is the problem, there is no evidence that he lived in documents but he has an enormous cultural impact on Anatolian civilization.

Among his students and followers, there was a Hızır who asked his Master for permission to seek his fortune in the Ottoman imperial capital, Istanbul. Pir Sultan Abdal made the following prediction as he gave Hızır his leave:

“I shall give you my permission with my blessings. You will achieve greatness and high status. When you come to a position of power, you will betray me and have me killed.”

Hızır vigorously protested. Assuring Pir Sultan Abdal of his lifelong loyalty, he mounted his horse and galloped toward Istanbul where he would swiftly advance himself to high ranks in the Ottoman military and eventually earn the title of “Pasha”.

In the heartland of Anatolia, surrounded by wild roses and enchanting birds, Pir Sultan Abdal was spreading his message of love, beauty, and justice. His poems were recited in many parts of the Ottoman realms at a time, including the reign of Sultan Süleyman the Magnificent (1520-1566), when Ottoman power was at its zenith.

Pir Sultan Abdal challenged that power:

In Istanbul he must come down:
The sovereign with his empire’s crown.

Legend has it that he became the leader of a popular uprising and urged kindred spirits to join the rebellion:

Come, soul brothers, let’s band together,
Brandish our swords against the Godless,
And restore the poor people’s rights.

In his poems, he asked for the overthrow of the Ottoman dynasty and the killing of the Emperor.

He was equally vehement in lashing out against local officials who suppressed the underprivileged. Some of his strongest denunciations were levelled against religious judges. Some of these judges handed down harsh verdicts to crush Pir Sultan Abdal’s rebellious movement.

There were two judges, Black Judge and Yellow judge in the region. Pir Sultan name his dogs after those judges. When Judges found out they protested it but Pir Sultan said, my dogs are better than you, at least they do not eat the food taken from poor. He called his dogs and the dogs did not eat those foods.

Meanwhile, Hızır Pasha had been appointed Governor of the Sivas region. In a gesture of loyalty to his old Master, he invited Pir Sultan Abdal to dinner where sumptuous food was served. But the poet sat at the table and would not touch anything. When Hızır Pasha asked “Why?” he explained: “You are on the wrong path. You have done terrible things to poor defenseless innocent people. Your food is unclean. I will not touch it. Even my dogs will not touch it.” Again, his dogs proved Pir Sultan Abdal right.

Infuriated, Hızır Pasha gave orders to have Pir Sultan Abdal thrown into the Sivas dungeon.

Imprisonment did not silence the poet. He continued to compose poems about his ideas, defying the judges who threatened to “cut off the tongue” of anyone spreading the message of the sect to which Pir Sultan Abdal belonged.

The poet simply refused to yield. He even challenged Hızır Pasha and the reigning Sultan:

Come on. man! There, Hızır Pasha!
Your wheel is bound to snap in two:
You placed your faith in your Sultan:
Some day, though. he will tumble too!

As a final resort, Hızır Pasha made an attempt at reconciliation. He had Pir Sultan Abdal brought before him and asked the poet to recite three poems not devoted to the sect’s ideas and heroes.

And Pir Sultan Abdal recited three poems all of which glorified the sect, its doctrine and its hallowed leaders.

Hızır Pasha, who had planned to release the poet, now condemned him to death.
As his men were busy putting up the gallows, Hızır Pasha issued another order, asking the people of Sivas to be present at the hanging and to stone the poet.

On the eve of the hanging, Pir Sultan Abdal sent word to the people that no one should mourn his death because he was dying for a glorious cause and achieving eternal life.

As the noose was placed around Pir Sultan Abdal’s neck, Hızır Pasha’s armed men forced the onlookers to cast stones at him. Ali Baba, one of the poet’s lifelong supporters, threw a red rose. And the poet recited a short verse ending with the lines...

The stones cast by those strangers don’t touch me;
I am wounded by the rose of my friend.

Legend has it that Pir Sultan Abdal survived the hanging. They left him on the gallows – and some hours later his disciples came and carried him away, alive. When Hızır Pasha finally arrived, he saw an empty noose and no corpse. He interrogated the townspeople. One of them said: “I saw him this morning: he was on his way to Koçhisar.” Another said: “I saw him walking toward Malatya.” Someone else said: “No, he was going to Yenihan.”

Hızır Pasha ordered his men to jump on their horses and find him on one of those roads. By that time, goes the story, Pir Sultan Abdal had crossed the bridge over the Kızılırmak (Red River, ancient Halys). When he saw the men on the other side, he said to the bridge: “Lie low!” And the bridge went down and sank into the river. Hızır Pasha’s men went back empty-handed.

It is said that Pir Sultan Abdal travelled to Khorasan and lived there many, many years. And his poems, so powerful in their defiance of injustice and oppression, have been kept alive by many generations.


Prof. Talat S. Halman
Chairman, Department of Turkish Literature
Bilkent University

Silvanus, who is the founder of Paulicians has a somewhat similar story. He was also stoned to death. None of his students threw anything to him but his best student killed him with a stone. He lived around the same region as Pir Sultan did. What Erdogan Cinar claims is that Pir Sultan did not exist but there were a few poets who used the same name to oppose Ottoman pressures and took the story of their old leader, Silvanus. If you ask me, there is a mythicization process going on in here, that is for certain, but jumping to the conclusion that Luwians become Paulicians when Christianity came and they disappeared when Islam tried to influence them, later forming Alevi-Bektashi sect is a little exaggeration.

I suppose now, we get past the serious parts and now it is time for me to talk about Yunus Emre. It is not actually related to subject but it is a good example of The Way of Sufis.

Thank you for endure my terrible English and grammar mistakes. By the way I want also thank Laura for writing the Return of Mongol series, I could not write this without reading it. I also thank bedower for starting the topic "The Sleepers in the Cave". I would not start to read Return of Mongols if I did not see that topic. Well, maybe it seems unrelated to you, but the Surah which mentions those sleepers also mention Yecuc and Mecuc, Gog and Magog in Islamic tradition. I wanted to comment on the topic, but first I wanted to know Laura's research about them. It was not quite what I expected but I really liked it. Actually, I am looking forward to read the rest, if Laura finds time to finish it. I know she is busy, so it is a selfish desire of mine, but when someone says "I still haven't gotten to the really juicy stuff" it is hard not to get excited.
 
Yunus Emre

Since we finished Alevi-Luwian-Hyperborean connection, I want to present you someone whom I think a true Hyperborean of his time and a great master. His story is similar to us actually, so we won't have a hard time to relate. I will quote passages from Turgut Durduran’s Yunus Emre and Humanism. I will make corrections and comment the text as needed. Here is a link to original article:

http://www.stwing.upenn.edu/~durduran/yunus/yunus1.html

Who is Yunus Emre? Is he one of the wandering hippies of 60's with torn clothing? Or is he a romantic obsessed with love?

He is neither, but at the same time both. Yunus Emre was a thirteenth century dervish from Anatolia. He is obsessed with love, but his love is the love of a true mystic. He did wear torn clothing, a dervish robe, and wandered about in Anatolia. He was but one of the thousands of Sufi dervishes of Islam, but he played an outstanding role in Turkish culture, literature and philosophy. Some writers regard him as the most important poet in Turkish history; his poetry, language and philosophy shaped Turkish culture and still do so.

In this short overview Yunus Emre's life, and thought, we will examine his legend and then turnto humanist themes in his poetry. I hope that will lead to appreciation of his works; poetry has limitless implications!

It is true that Yunus Emre was one of the many dervishes but his knowledge was higher than most of them. Those who have the same knowledge with him were the ones who write books like Mevlana. The difference between them is that Yunus come from people and returned to the people where Mevlana created a sect. Yunus simply had nothing at the time he born and still had nothing at the time he died. He was a hero in the eyes of Turkish people. People have great respect for Mevlana but I suspect most of them did not read even a small part of Masnawi. Today in Turkey, I do not encounter anyone who does not know a verse of Yunus Emre's poems.

Whether he was a wandering dervish or a Seyh of a tekke, his tariqat (or Sufi order), his poetry, and finally his death are all mysteries, with various sources giving various different interpretations. I would take Sabahattin Eyoboglu's approach and try to understand Yunus through legends about his life in Anatolia. As a popular poet, the most important aspects of Yunus' life are not historical details, but how the common people of Anatolia viewed his life. This is revealed very beautifully in legends and poetry; some people even suggest that "Yunus" is actually a school of thought in 13th century Anatolia, not a single person.



His philosophy, metaphysics and humanism have been examined in various symposiums and conferences on a regular basis both in Turkey and abroad. UNESCO named Yunus Emre one of the main cultural figures of world, and dedicated 1991 as "The International Yunus Emre Year". His work has been translated into several languages, and historians consider his system of thought important for clues about thirteenth-century Anatolia.

This is one of the reasons I liked this article. Mr. Durduran does not concern himself with finding historical evidence to prove something. He just simply tells legends because as he said it is “how the common people of Anatolia viewed his life”. I am skipping some parts. If you want, you can read the whole article from the link above.

Let us now turn to the legend of Emre; after all, Yunus has told us:

I am not at this place to dwell,
I arrived here just to depart.
I am a well-stocked peddler, I sell
To all those who'll buy from my mart

Turkish culture is full of legends about or attributed to Yunus Emre. One famous story about Yunus Emre describes how he became a dervish. Young Yunus was a poor Anatolian villager, who would starve if the harvest was bad and live like a king when it was good. One day he ran out of seeds for his field; he got on his donkey and collected various wild fruits from forests in hope of exchanging them for seeds. After a long journey he stopped at Haci Bektas Tekke, the famous tekke (Sufi lodge) of the founder of the most latitudinarian sect of Bektasis of Anatolia. He entered Haci Bektas's room and asked him for seeds in exchange for his wild fruits. Haci Bektas, a grand Seyh and poet in his own right, offered Yunus a "nefes" (a breath of blessing) in return for his fruits. Yunus refused. Haci Bektas then offered ten "nefes" for each handful, but Yunus still refused. To his suprise, Yunus ended up getting as much seeds as he could carry from Haci Bektas after this incident. On his way back to his village, Yunus reflected: "This man must be a noble spirit; how could anyone else be so generous to a poor stranger?". Thus he took the seeds back to Haci Bektas to ask for a "nefes". However, Haci Bektas replied: "I cannot, because I have turned over your padlock to Taptuk Emre.".

The man referred here as Haci Bektas, as you might have guessed the Hajji Bektash that we discussed above. I repeat, I think this is a cloak, a smokescreen. If you look at Hajji Bektash's legends-we will see some of them- he is not a noble spirit, he is someone like Prophet Muhammed. Nefes, here means a poem. Each Sufi poem is called nefes in Anatolia and it also means a breath of blessing but not for poet, for those who listen to it. In the legend I know of, Yunus thought a little and said, “I can eat those seeds in a few days but a nefes is much more holy.” And he returned. Then, since the padlock is at Taptuk Emre, Yunus goes there.

Let us pause here and think about possible the symbolism of this story. Yunus begins a journey in search of "seeds" in exchange of "wild fruits". A wild fruit is the untreated, uneducated version of the corresponding domestic fruit, Yunus seeks to give away these to get seeds, which symbolize the foundations of a new life, the beginning of a transformation, a journey - in short, "the Way" described by many Sufis. His journey leads him to Haci Bektas, a Seyh and a man of great wisdom, who offers Yunus "nefes", something that many people would yearn to get but Yunus refuses. Haci Bektas is a generous person, however, - one of God's attributes, or the attributes of a perfect man in Sufism.Thus he gives Yunus many seeds, which makes Yunus reconsider the situation. Yunus understands the signs given to him by Haci Bektas through this incident, but it is too late; his "lock" has been turned over to Taptuk Emre. In Sufistic terms, this means that a spiritual guide, a Seyh or Pir, has been appointed for Yunus on his path in search of God's truth - here in search of the source of Haci Bektas' wisdom. This is the beginning of another long and arduous journey for Yunus, the first stage of "the Way", as described in the following verses:

I have a question to you,
The wisest of the Dervishes
What kind of Path do
The Seyhs order?

The answer to this
Obstacle of palace
Is the flame from the
Chimney of the House of Love

The first door is "Seriat" (Religion or Law)
Commanding exile (or journey),
Every syllable of Koran,
Telling the sins of home.

Do not think this is the Quran in the sense you are thinking. To be honest, Yunus could not read or write. He has other poems that criticize orthodox Muslims for following Quran. Here is what he thinks about Quran:

Whatever you wish for yourself
Wish for the others
This is the meaning of the four books(Torah, Psalms, Gospel, Kuran)
If there is any meaning

I have another translation of that verse that I found in internet but Mr. Durduran, as me, tries to preserve meaning so this one is more accurate. Also remember, esoteric tradition goes beyond the words so when they say Quran it does not generally mean it. Another great Alevi poet Harabi said:

Harabi, get those words from the God as blessings
We are reading it, we have the book.

referring the Alevi-Bektashi literature.

Here is something we discussed before:

I climbed upon the plum tree
To pluck grapes there;
The master of the garden asked me:
Why do you eat my walnut

According to Schimmel, Yunus here means that every deed (tree) has a special kind of fruit. "Prune, "grape" and "nut" refer respectively to the Divine Law, "$eriat", to the mystical Path, "tariqat", and the Divine Reality, "haqiqat". One eats the outer parts of the prune but not its interior, whatever is like the prune corresponds to the outward aspect of actions. The grape is eaten and many delicious examples of Turkish cuisine are made of it. Though a few remains of hypocrisy (vinegar vs. wine), fame , and other unwanted attributes exist in the grape , it is still on the Path to the Reality. The nut is completely a symbol of Reality for the interior of the nut has nothing to be thrown away and it is the remedy for many illnesses, whereas the outer part, a symbol for the Self, is totally useless, and must be discarded possibly through a lot of suffering.

Taptuk Emre in turn has his own legends; Haci Bektas arrives in Anatolia from far away places in the guise of a pigeon; however, the fanatic Mollas who heard of his arrival do not want him in Anatolia and appear as eagles attacking him and blocking his way. The bird of peace finds the skies of Anatolia filled with eagle wings; in trying to break through this barrier it is wounded and falls into village, where a peasant woman takes care of it. After this incident all the Seyhs and pious people of Anatolia and Rum show respect to Haci Bektas, except one called Emre. Haci Bektas asks Emre to come to his tekke for a conversation. When Emre arrives he asks him how he was introduced to the way of the Sufis; Emre tells him the story of a hand that came through a curtain and invited him to the Way, declaring that he would still recognize that hand. Afterwards, Haci Bektas shows his hand, and with excitement Emre shouts "Taptuk Taptuk" ( I have not been able to figure out a meaning for this word; it sounds like a common exclamation of the time) , and becomes a follower of Haci Bektas. From then on his name is Taptuk Emre. Halman mentions a slightly different story where Taptuk Emre himself is the pigeon, but the general idea is the same. This story emphasizes the link between Haci Bektas and Taptuk Emre and the relation of mystics to the peasants of Anatolia. Rebelion, or dissatisfaction with religious dogma is seen quite clearly in this story.

You can see how any wisdom in Anatolia traces back to Hajji Bektash, for hiding itself. Actually, Abdulbaki Golpinarli claims Yunus was never a student of Taptuk Emre, he does not say I am a student of Taptuk Emre, he says this:

At the door of Taptuk
We became slaves in its building
Yunus mystic, we were raw
And we matured Praise be to God

Golpinarli claims the name Taptuk in his poems refer to God, meaning worshipped.

After a long and tiring journey Yunus Emre finally finds his guide Taptuk Emre and immediately joins the congregation where he is to serve, much like a slave, for forty years carrying and cutting firewood. This, however, is not merely slavery to the tekke, but "AllahIn kulluGu"- the slavery of God. According to Yunus, this is the second door of "the Way" ;

The second one is tariqat
Trusting in slavery.
Let the guide judge
The one on the right Path

I sense someone who has no esoteric knowledge wrote that poem. Four doors are introduced to Sufis with Alevis and this verse does not fit their definition, it is not tariqat, sounds more like shariat. The verse before that praised Quran, contradicting Yunus' general understanding of it. I propose that this poem was not written by Yunus but someone who has vauge understanding of Dervish orders. Actually people wonder how many of Yunus' poems actually his, there seems to be additions and distortions in his literature but it is no surprise to us, we got used to it.

Another legend tells how Yunus was attracted by Taptuk Emre's saz (a traditional instrument of Anatolia) music, until one day he got bored and left the tekke. Wandering randomly, Yunus meets seven enlightened men, and becomes their comrade. Every night one of them prays silently for one person and a feast table appears for the group. On his turn Yunus prays , "Oh God , I am praying for the same person these enlightened ones are praying to; please do not embarrass me." and two tables instead of one appear. Shocked, the enlightened ones question Yunus about whom he prayed to, but Yunus demands that they should tell first. Their answer was: "We prayer for a dervish called Yunus who is a follower of Taptuk Emre". On hearing this, without a word Yunus leaves the group and returns to the tekke.

The legend is full of miracles indicating Yunus' saintly position in Anatolian folklore. One miracle after another leads Yunus through this journey. There is a predestinarian touch throughout the legend. This particular story could be an example of the hardships of "the Way" and how one can easily stray from it; but God led Emre back to "the way" through certain signs. The legend also emphasizes Yunus' saintly position in the eyes of Anatolian peasants; and the respect shown to him by the enlightened ones means that even Yunus himself did not realize this importance. Perhaps Yunus was still on the earlier stages of his journey and had not yet acquired a good amount of self-knowledge.

When Yunus arrives back to the tekke, he talks to Taptuk's wife (here again a woman appears as a savior). She tells him to go and lie on the door-step of Taptuk's house. Saying; "When Taptuk exits the house for his morning "abdest" (religious washing) , he will stumble upon you and as he has a poor vision, he will ask "who is this" and I will tell him "Yunus". If he answers "which Yunus" you should leave and never come back, but if he says "you mean our friend Yunus", this means he still loves you. In that case, you should bow to him and ask for his mercy". The next day Taptuk Emre answers by saying , "you mean our friend Yunus", with excitement and tears.

This story is a story of love between two men, Yunus Emre and Taptuk Emre, a common theme in Sufism. The love described here is not necessarily homosexual love, but a divine love of the guide and his student. Taptuk Emre forgives Yunus rejoins the tekke, resuming his work of carrying firewoods. One night there is a very happy banquet at the tekke, and Taptuk Emre asks the poet of the tekke to recite poetry, but somehow he is not able to utter a single word. Then Taptuk turns to Yunus, declaring, "What Haci Bektas once told you is at last a reality. Your lock is now unlocked". Yunus bursts into a stream of poetry and the congregation becomes ecstatic - the great poet Yunus is now born. Yunus mentions Taptuk in various places in his poetry. In reference to his love of Taptuk he says:

Yunus is a servant of Taptuk's face
I see Taptuk's light on every face I look

Recall what Golpinarli said, it quite fits to above verses. Seeing the light of the God on every face you look is more plausible, or so I think.

There are many more legends and anecdotes about his life. One story, almost certainly apocryphal, describes the encounter of Mevlana Celaleddin Rumi and Yunus, about whom Yunus wrote

Since I saw Mevlana,
His magnificent vision is the mirror of our hearts

During this encounter (Yunus explicitly mentions attending a gathering of Mevlana in some of his poetry) Yunus criticizes Mevlana for the bulk of the Mesnevi and states that he would have expressed the same idea in the following two lines:

"I took shape in flesh and bones,
And came into sight as Yunus.

The story also mentions that Mevlana admitted that he would not have written this such a long work if he were able to make such pithy statements. One legends says that paying tribute to Yunus, Mevlana stated:

"Whenever I arrived at a new spiritual height, there I found the footsteps left by that Turkish (Turcoman) mystic, and I could never surpass him."

These legends about encounters with Mevlana, one of the greatest Sufis of all times demonstrate how important Yunus was in the eyes of the Anatolian people. The legend also hint at a conflict between the elitism of Mevlana and Yunus' status as a popular preacher. Yunus did not produce volumes of literary work like Mevlana; his literacy is even under debate.

As you can see from above legends, people love Yunus more than Mevlana. I think all of those stories did not took place. Yunus is not someone who criticize Mevlana’s work like this. Turks like this kind of jokes or legends where one side, the one they like of course, win the debate and gain respect, so I believe this is fictional.

Now this is an interesting legend:

Like many other Sufis Yunus Emre triggered a heavy reaction from Moslem dogmatists who begun to regard him as a foe. A legend describes that Molla KasIm, a traditionalist, decided to destroy all transcriptions of Yunus's poems. He sat on a river bank and starts tearing all the material he found heretical, throwing the scraps into the river, until he saw two lines:

"Yunus Emre, utter no word that is not true,
For a Molla KasIm will come to cross-examine you!”

Molla KasIm burst into tears as he understood his mistake. He saved the rest of precious the poetry - some claim two thirds of Yunus Emre's poetry was destroyed this way- for the rest of his life. How Yunus knew about Molla KasIm nobody knows; nobody is even sure whether this piece of poetry really belongs to Yunus or if it is part of the thousands of verses recited in his name centuries after. Thereafter, the legend claims, his poetry was carried around by the rivers, recited by the fish in the water, blown by the winds and recited by the angels in the air, with the remaining part recited by thousands of people.

There are hundreds of more anecdotes and stories of Yunus which have survived in the folk traditions of Anatolian peasants. They describe his adventures, his philosophy, and "the Way" he followed. Nobody knows how far on "the Way" he traveled, whether he reached the third and the fourth doors:

The third is 'marifet' (gnosis)
It expands the eye and the heart (makes them happy, relaxed)
Let's do it and we will be rewarded by God
Let's march to God!

The fourth is 'hakikat' (the absolute Truth)
Looking down on the self,
Days will be 'bayram' (religious festival)
Nights will be 'kadir' (the night when the Kuran was revealed, a celebration night)

I again claim this is not Yunus' words. He does not seek a reward from God. Here is one of his poems:

Your love has wrested me away from me,
You're the one I need, you're the one I crave.
Day and night I burn, gripped by agony,
You're the one I need, you're the one I crave.

I find no great joy in being alive,
If I cease to exist, I would not grieve,
The only solace I have is your love,
You're the one I need, you're the one I crave.

Lovers yearn for you, but your love slays them,
At the bottom of the sea it lays them,
It has God's images - it displays them;
You're the one I need, you're the one I crave.

Let me drink the wine of love sip by sip,
Like Mecnun, live in the hills in hardship,
Day and night, care for you holds me in its grip,
You're the one I need, you're the one I crave.

Even if, at the end, they make me die
And scatter my ashes up to the sky,
My pit would break into this outcry:
You're the one I need, you're the one I crave.

"Yunus Emre the Mystic" is my name,
Each passing day fans and rouses my flame,
What I desire in both worlds is the same:
You're the one I need, you're the one I crave.

Actually, this guy did not write the whole poem. There is a verse that says:

The thing they called heaven
Has some houses and some women
If somebody wants them, give it to them
You are the one I need, you are the one I crave


Schimmel in fact points out that one can easily trace the stages and stations of "the Way" in Yunus' poetry, 'beginning with the loneliness and estrangement in this world, with confusion and uncertainty, but slowly leading to complete surrender to the Seyh ("Yunus was a falcon, perched on Taptuk's arm"). Out of this surrender emerges the firm faith in the wondrous activities of the spiritual guides in the mystical hierarchy, such as the Three, the Seven, the Forty, of the founders of the mystical orders whom he mentions sometimes in his verse (Maulana, Ahmad Rifa'i). But Yunus' final insight is condensed in the saying:

"If there is no Divine Attraction --
What, then, shall my shaykh do to me?
"
This means that the last step, the final experience of union with the Divine Beloved is an act of grace which the shaykh can only prepare, but not effect.'

My intent in this paper is not to give full account and interpretation of these stories, but rather get the reader to think about Yunus Emre's personality through these examples. The legends are open to a variety of different interpretations. Now that have met Yunus, let us examine other aspects of his poetry relevant to our main topic of humanism.

I think Schimmel starts with the assumption that all of those poems belong to Yunus Emre which is impossible. He also has no idea what threes, fives, sevens and forties mean. Those motifs are belong to Alevis, not all of the Sufis. As I stated Forties are a hyperdimensional group, it had its symbolic representations here, but there are no Forties now, not among Alevis, not among other Sufis, according to my knowledge. I again thank Mr. Durduran for following the philosophy of Yunus Emre and his efforts to make Yunus known to the west.

One constant theme in Yunus' poetry is Love, that of God for man and, therefore, of man for God. Yunus' love is the most powerful of everything, it is for the creator of the universe but it is also the creator, it is fierce and burning, consuming Yunus' mere existence. Yunus is like Mecnun, "the mad man of Love" who suffered , appear to have gone mad, and died just for the love of Leyla. Yunus wants to be as drunk, i.e. mad, as Mecnun, for his Love which wounds him terribly. For Yunus external forms of religion are not important and reward and punishment are not of concern; he only cares for God, yearns of his Love. The world is temporary and even when he dies, even when he is killed like the martyr of love Hallaj (Yunus refers to him in various other pieces of poetry), whatever is left of him will be yearning for God. Yunus can argue with God that His Love is killing people, making them suffer enormously, he seems to complain of his unjust treatment, but regardless, his love is so great that he can not help yearning for Him. He believes that he existed with God before there was existence. Of course, he is no different than God:

I was a star for a long time;
in the skies the angels were desirous [of me].
The all-compelling God commanded;
I was There then.

Before I was in this form,
when my name was not Yunus,
I was He, He was I,
I was with the one who offered this love.

Yunus is hinting at a common Sufi theme of the existence of the Saints during the primordial time. Yunus is a perfect-man himself who was with the Creator before the Creation. He shared the divine knowledge with God. This idea is revealed more clearly in the following verses:

Before the created universe came here,
Before the skies were filled with angels,
Before this realm had a foundation,
I was with the creator of the Domain.

He is not content to make this shocking statement; he calls everyone else to accept it also:

If you don't identify Man as God,
All your learning is of no use at all.

Yunus in fact refers to the idea of "vahdet'i vucut" , unity of being, which is a common theme on Sufi mysticism. He adheres to most of the common , dominant ideas of Sufism, as can clearly be seen from these pieces of poetry and his other works. What is different and most striking in Yunus is his use of the simple Turkish of his time - which could still be understood and appreciated quite easily by a modern Turkish speaker, and his outstanding humanism. It is the second aspect which primarily interests us here which certainly is not separate from his use of folk language.

Sufis wrote poems about this unity of being and one of the best poems I encounter was from an Alevi poet Harabi:

When there is no Allah and there is no world
We created it and made it known
When there is no place that deserved the Truth
We took it into our home and make it our guest

It  did not have any name back then
Let alone the name, it did not have any shape
It did not have any clothes or any illustration
We shaped it and made it exactly like a human



For those who entered the palace of Unity
For those who can see the Truth as Hakk-el Yakin
For those who know this secret, Harabi
We convey it in the meydan of Unity

Remember, I told you Hakk-el Yakin means the secrets that hold the true meaning of existence. Meydan here has multiple meanings. It can mean Universe in Sufism or it can mean section of a Bektashi or Mevlevi lodge in which the dervishes perform the religious ceremonies. I think the former is more accurate in this particular poem.

This humanism part of the article is pretty much leading astray part. I appreciate efforts of Mr. Durduran but his wishful thinking is surfacing when he thinks all men are equal and that is what Yunus Emre tried to convey. We all know they are not and Yunus knew it also. 

Humanism in general is a system of thought which dignifies man in his relation with God, nature and society. The humanist accepts man as the criterion of creation or of mere existence, but the fanatical dogma of many major religions, including Islam, preaches that man's existence on earth is much lower in significance or value in relation to that of God's. As in all mystic traditions, Sufis in Islam emerged as the dialectical antithesis to this theological interpretation and to religious formalism. As Talat Sait Halman indicates in his writings on Yunus Emre , he stood strictly against Moslem dogmatists in expressing the primary importance of human existence.

Sufism in general has a very humanistic approach to religion. Sufis, like other mystics, are trying to reach God or the ultimate Truth by following a certain path. In doing this, they disregard the dichotomy of the physical world and the divine, or better to say that they get rid of the veils separating them. This also means that as humans, they become God-like through this process which again involves human activity. God is internalized , making man not an outcast but an extension of God's reality and love.

Yunus Emre's humanism is not only a humanism of "peace and brotherhood" but also calls for social justice, charity and many other familiar ideals of today's world. For example, Yunus Emre calls for helping other people and sharing one's possessions with them:

If you have seen an unfortunate one, and given him and old piece of clothing,
Tomorrow he will meet you as if he had put on a heavenly robe.

Toil, earn, eat , and give others your wages.
Our first duty is good character and good deeds.
Hand out to others what you earn,
Do the poor people a good turn.

In the above verses Yunus offers rewards from God to people who do good for the poor and unfortunate. He calls for good character, which is obtained by helping others. Of course, the physical world, belongings, riches and jewels are anathema to mystics for they block his way from God:

I take no joy in worldly wealth, nor feel dismay at poverty.
I am content with Your love; it is You I need, You.

Yunus was a popular poet, a preacher, a man of the people. He was not elitist like the Renaissance literary humanism. He called for social justice, equality and prosperity. He spoke against the feudal rulers, landowners, officials, religious leaders or anybody else who would oppress the people of thirteenth-century Anatolia:

Kindness of the lords ran its course,
Now each one goes straddling a horse,
They eat the flesh of the paupers,
All they drink is the poor men's blood.

The lords are wild with wealth and might,
They ignore the poor people's plight;
Immersed in selfhood which is blight,
Their hearts are shorn of charity.

Yunus does not like tyrants, lords, religious leaders, and any other oppressors; he accuses them of "drinking the poor man's blood". Selfhood, wealth and power all alienate these lords from the common people and keep them away from the "exalted state of love". For Yunus the poor and the rich, the Sultan and the slave are all equals. Looking at a cemetery he says:

These men were rich as could be.
This is what they come to, see!
They reached the end and had to wear
The simple robe without the sleeves.

Back in the past, these were the lords,
At their doors they used to have guards:
Come take a look, you can't tell now
Who are the lords, who are the slaves.

Both rich and poor, the lords and the slaves, all die and lie in the cemetery wearing the burial shroud. All have now become equals and the real Sultan, God, shows his powers over them. What we do or possess during our earthly life does not make us any more "divine" than others unless we seek the true path.

As you can see, Yunus was against the ruling elites of his time and those who use people for their own personal gain. Later in the article Mr. Durduran ignores all those poems and says Yunus has an understanding of “turn the other cheek” which is not true.

As a seeker of God, Yunus tried hard to find God everywhere he could imagine;

The yearning tormented my mind:
I searched the heavens and the ground;
I looked and looked, but failed to find.
I found Him inside man at last.

To his suprise Yunus found God inside the Man. All human beings are divine beings and their equality ultimately rests in their divinity. He advises everyone to seek God within themselves:

God permeates the whole wide world,
Yet his truth is revealed to none.
You better seek Him in yourself,
You and He aren't apart - you're one.

This idea of "Vahdet-i VUcud" (Unity of Existence) mentioned before is strikingly similar to Socratic humanism which supposes that truth is immanent in human subjectivity and that the divine is imbedded in man. Yunus Emre speaks of "dignitas hominis", the dignity of humanity, instead of what both the Christian and Islamic dogma of his age was supporting, "contemptus mundi": preaching scorn for the human being, promoting the idea that the human existence is futile. Yunus Emre's humanity was like Protagoras' humanity: "Man is the measure of all things".

Yunus' also believed that he as a human being had God-like powers. He speaks of how he guides people on to the Way:

I am before, I am after -
The soul for all souls all the way.
I'm the one with a helping hand
Ready for those gone wild, astray.

He arranged the world, he created the mountains, plains, and put them in order:

I made the ground flat where it lies,
On it I had those mountains rise,
I designed the vault of the skies,
For I hold all things in my sway.

To countless lovers I have been
A guide for faith and religion.
I am sacrilege in man's hearts
Also the true faith and Islam's way.

Yunus sees himself as the most powerful. He is capable of creating religions, attracting followers. As a popular preacher, Yunus mentions Islam here as the "true faith".

I have a book about Yunus Emre and as far as I can see among hundreds of poems he mentions Islam or Islamic tradition in two or three of them. I sense this is a later addition. After we finish the article I will describe people who play games on Yunus Emre and his identity.

How can Yunus can think so highly of himself? After all, he is just a poor human being; he is a fool of Love. Apparently he recognizes the power of human beings who control the destiny of this planet that we call Earth. They are God's most valuable creation. Emre recognizes the unity of being, that we are not separate from the Divine. In the modern world, there are striking parallels to this idea. For instance the world is shrinking thanks to developments in communications and transportation and we are getting closer and closer to the most fundamental knowledge about nature through modern physics. The realization of this truth has its effects on our sense of who we are, on our relationships to others and to all aspects of life.
If Emre created all religions, he has to respect all. As a lover he sees true love in ecumenical ideas. One would think that today's world would have been much different , stripped off many of the current wars, bloodshed, and animosities, if we took his advice:

We regard no one's religion as contrary to ours.
True love is born when all faiths are united as a whole.

Emre calls humans of all faiths, all nations to come together and make peace:

Come here, let's make peace,
let's not be strangers to one another.
We have saddled the horse
and trained it, glory be to God.

This is a fundamentally Islamic idea as revealed in Quran:
Behold, We have created you all out of a male and a female, and have made you into nations and tribes, so that you might come to know one another...
This community of yours is one single community, since I am the Sustainer of you all: remain, then, conscious of me.
Qur'an 49:13, 23:52

Yeah, and then you enslaved us at Elest meeting, you seperated us at Tower of Babel, then you saved us when comets came. Thank you!

Further clarification: There is a story in Quran where Allah gathers all the souls of humans before they had physical existence. And he says to them: Elestu bi Rabbikum, meaning “Am I not your owner?” and the crowd says Kalu Bela, meaning  “Yes, you are”. After that they came to earth in physical existence for testing that promise. I suspect this is what group soul did when they encounter Lizzies.

The orthodox religious authority that Yunus dislikes so much converted these universal ideas in Islam to ideas that lead people against other religions. This is similar to what happened in other main-stream religions through the path of history. We see Yunus attacking the Orthodoxy:

If you mean to wipe off all the rust that covers the hearts,
Be sure to utter this word which is life's true summary;

The man who doesn't see the nations of worlds as one
Is a rebel even if the pious claim he's holy.

Listen to my comment on the strictures of the canon:
Orthodox faith is a ship, its sea is Reality.

No matter how impregnable are the planks of the ship,
They are bound to crack and shatter when waves rage in that sea.

Listen, my loved one, let me give you a fact beyond this:
The rebel against Truth is the saint of orthodoxy.

For Yunus orthodoxy is like a ship in the sea of Reality, which will eventually be destroyed. The sea here represents God and the ultimate Truth in which human beings are somehow floating but from which they are separated. Hence by being a ship in the sea of Reality, Orthodoxy is actually blocking our way to God. The saints of Orthodoxy are actually rebels against Truth. One should clean his heart from its rust so that God's light can shine on it, drawing it towards enlightenment, and these ships should be abandoned:

Men of God's truth are an ocean,
Lovers must plunge into that sea;
The sages too, should take a dive
To bring out the best jewelry.

As we saw in the legends concerning Emre's life, religious dogma did not particularly enjoy Yunus making such comments and he evidently suffered at the hands the Orthodox, just like his teachers - Haci Bektas and Taptuk Emre. However, Yunus has an idea of pacifism similar to the Christian idea of "Turn the other cheek to a person who is slapping your face" .

Describing a Dervish, he says:

He must be without hands when someone hits him.
He must be tongueless when cursed.

Mr. Durduran is misinterpreting what Yunus says. Yunus talks about avoiding revenge, retribution against those people because they have no idea what they are doing, they are just tools in the hand of Control System.

Yunus is a dervish, so we expect his philosophy to enforce the story above. He goes on to say that hate is his only enemy:

Mystic is what they call me.
Hate is my only enemy;
I harbor a grudge against none.
To me the whole wide world is one.

He does not hate anyone; he does not look for revenge. Everyone receive the same treatment from Yunus which is quite natural, for:

Water out of the same fountain
Cannot be both bitter and sweet.

Here water symbolizes life, the life created human beings, a common symbol in Sufism. The fountain is the God from which the water comes out; it creates the human beings. Just as water from the same fountain tastes exactly the same, humans are all equal and are good in essence. Emre does not keep this knowledge for himself; he passes it on:

See all people as equals,
See the humble as heroes.

Again, this is a result of the era Yunus lived where there were landowners and wars, blood feuds between villages. If he is equal with those Saint of Orthodoxy, that means he is also a rebel against the Truth.

Don't look on anyone as worthless, no one is worthless;
It's not nice to seek people's defects and deficiencies.
Don't look down on anyone, never break a heart;
The mystic must love all seventy-two nations.

Not only is everyone equal, but they should be treated accordingly. One should look forward to liking and loving people, not to finding their mistakes and defects. The divine knowledge is in the heart of humanity, and it is undesirable to break one's heart, whatever his religion is. A dervish is a lover of God , so he has to love humans as they are part of God. One should co-ordinate his actions towards others based on his own experience, thus Emre calls people to "behave as they would wish others to behave towards them".[/quote]

Maybe it is best for the reader of this post to read the last chapter of Wave series where Laura speaks about Love of Dervishes toward God and toward people. This would probably clarify the concepts that are misunderstood Mr. Durduran.

Yunus Emre is a treasure that is used by anybody. Legends claims he is a follower of Hajji Bektash but there is not any single indication for that. Same can be said for Taptuk Emre. He is a Sufi so Mevlevis try to take a piece of him, using his poems with religious music for their sema dances. Alevis see him as a master but do not use his songs in their ceremonies. And the most funny thing is Orthodox Islam embraces Yunus Emre as he is one of them, despite the fact he called them “Rebel against Truth”.

I never heard that particular poem from Yunus, but because of Islamic pressure in this country we hear one of his poem: "The river of those Paradise" repeatedly. I think he did not wrote it because as I said above he does not seek any reward. He said give the paradise to those who want, I want you.

They add the words La ilahe illallah[There is no God but Allah] between every verse of Yunus Emre’s poetry and claim he is Islamic. It seems those words hypnotize people to think they are Islamic. Alevis do the same in their songs called Tevhid. Actually, Alevis use it but they believe the words La mevcude illallah[There is nothing exist but Allah].

The use of Islam in this country reached the top in this country. I remember from my childhood we were thought a poem of Yunus Emre. Here is a link of that song, you might like it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKzxEA4zcao

I asked the yellow flower, do you have mother and father?
Flower said: Father Dervish, my mother and father is soil

I asked the yellow flower, do you have children, brothers and sisters?
Flower said: Father Dervish, my children, brothers and sisters are leaves

I asked the yellow flower, why is the color of your face yellow?
Flower said: Father Dervish, death is close to us.

Normally it continues and finishes like this:

I asked the yellow flower, do you know who am I?
Flower said: Father Dervish, you are Yunus, aren’t you?

When you look at above poem, it is a perfect talk between nature and man revealing some truth but what did orthodox Islam did with it?

I asked the yellow flower, why is the color of your face yellow?
Flower said: Father Dervish, I fear from Allah.

I asked the yellow flower,who is your prophet?
Flower said: Father Dervish, my prophet is Muhammed.

You know, it frustrates me because until last week, I thought this one was the original until I saw that video and made a research.

This is not the subject of this thread so lets leave it but when I tell you Yunus Emre is corrupted by orthodox Islam, I think you have a picture how that might be.

Here I want to put some of Yunus’s work:

We drank wine from the Cupbearer
At an inn higher than the sky.
Our souls are goblets in His hands,
Deep in His ecstasy we lie.

At our private place of meeting,
Where our hearts are scorched with yearning
Like moths, the sun and the moon ring
Our candle whose flames rise high.

Yunus, don't tell these words of trance
To those steeped in dark ignorance,
Can't you see how swiftly the chance
Of ignorant men's lives goes by?

I do not know where did this guy obtained those poems but they differ from the ones I know. This poem has two more verse and it finishes like that: “Do not you know the time of ignorant, will not get past for a long time?” This one is my favourite poem so I will try to translate missing verses.

Those who are burned in the fire of love
Obtain a body that is completely divine light
This fire does not resemble any other
There are not any devils in it

Those who reach ecstasy in this fire
Shout the words Enel Hak[I am Truth]
Like Mansur al-Hallaj
The lowest crazy ones


Mansur al-Hallaj was a Sufi who said Enel Hak, meaning I am Truth but also means I am God as I described before, and executed in Baghdad by the order of Abbasid Caliph. Anatolian Sufis support him because unlike other Sufis he made his knowledge available to those who need from common people and shared it openly.

I would say there is a difference between scholars, book writers and the Sufis in action, who are executed or suffered. You see this difference in Mevlana and Yunus, in Mansur and Arabi. Anatolian people side with who dies and who suffers, but they do not refuse the knowledge coming from scholars, they just do not use it since it was hard to obtain those books during those times. This is the difference between written Sufi tradition which lived in books and oral Sufi tradition which lived in people.

Burning, burning, I drift and tread.
Love spattered my body with blood.
I'm not in my senses nor mad,
Come, see what love has done to me.

Now and then like the winds I blow,
Now and then like the roads I go,
Now and then like the floods I flow,
Come, see what love has done to me.

Hold my hand, lift me from this place
Or take me into your embrace...
You made me weep, make me rejoice,
Come, see what love has done to me.

Searching, I roam from land to land,
In all tongues I ask for the Friend.
Who knows my plight where love is banned?
Come, see what love has done to me.

Lovelorn, I tread; madly I scream.
My loved one is my only dream;
I wake and plunge into deep gloom.
Come, see what love has done to me.

I'm Yunus, mystic of sorrow,
Suffering wounds from top to toe;
In the Friend's hands I writhe in woe.
Come, see what love has done to me.

If you break a true believer's heart once,
It's no prayer to God--this obeisance,
All of the world's seventy-two nations
Cannot wash the dirt off your hands and face.

There are the sages--they have come and gone.
Leaving their world behind them, they moved on.
They flapped their wings and flew to the True One,
Not like geese, but as birds of Paradise.

The true road doesn't ever run awry,
The real hero scoffs at clambering high,
The eye that can see God is the true eye,
Not the eye that stares from a lofty place.

If you followed the never-swerving road,
If you held a hero's hand as he strode,
If doing good deeds was your moral code,
You shall get a thousand to one, no less.

These are the moving facts that Yunus tells,
Where his blend of butter and honey jells,
Not salt, but jewelry is what he sells--
These goods he hands out to the populace.

Knowledge should mean a full grasp
of knowledge:
Knowledge means to know yourself,
heart and soul.
If you have failed to understand yourself,
Then all of your reading has missed its call.

What is the purpose of reading those books?
So that Man can know the All-Powerful. [If I were the translator, I would say Truth here instead of All-Powerful]
If you have read, but failed to understand,
Then your efforts are just a barren toil.

Don't boast of reading, mastering science
Or of all your prayers and obeisance.
If you don't identify Man as God,
All your learning is of no use at all.

The true meaning of the four holy books
Is found in the alphabet's first letter.
You talk about that first letter, preacher;
What is the meaning of that - could you tell?

Yunus Emre says to you, pharisee,
Make the holy pilgrimage if need be
A thousand times - but if you ask me,
The visit to a heart is best of all.

And finally, I suppose he wrote this for the ones who can appreciate his poems:

Out of this world, we're on our way:
Our greetings to those who will stay.
We send all our greetings to those
Who give us their blessings and pray.

Under Death's weight, our backs gave way;
Now our tongues have nothing to say.
We send greetings to those who've asked
About us as, near death, we lay.

Fateful Death takes our lives away:
None can escape, none goes astray.
We send greetings to those who've asked
About us as, near death, we lay.

Listen: Mystic Yunus says so.
His eyes are filled with tears of woe.
Those who don't know cannot know us;
We send greetings to those who know.


You can read more of Yunus’s poems in English here:

http://www.baktabul.com/ingilizce/27583-yunus-emre.html

It is a good source, but be aware that there are distortions in translation.

If no one has any questions or comments, I think my job in this thread is finished. If I find something related in the future, I will post.
 
Biomast,

Thank Brother for this topic. It happens that I am in the heart of Africa with only three books: The enneagram in the Sufi tradition, Yunus Emre's poem translated(surely imperfectly) in my native language "les chants du pauvre Yunus" and one of Laura's.
It happens that the same Laura serie you have mentioned has also led me again toward the Alevi-Bektashi connection three years ago and I am convinced that there is much in this "movement". A few weeks ago I was always listening and dancing with cem and Alevi music, it is great stuff.

I have also frequently refered to the Bektashi connexion in some of my posts (one was about the fact that the Albanian Bektashis sheltered the infamous maniaco-depressive Shabbataï Zévi until his death).

You surely extrapolate in you posts but I don't blame you for this, you warn us. Those among us who are aware of the topic you started, will understand and won't be laid astray. Don't worry. Anyway there are many real interesting ideas in you writing and I am really glad that you did that work(thank you for your translations and your honesty). I am just sorry that I can't do any research to go further in what you say in the bush I am in.
Anyway , I may search and check more than I can express now, because I am surrounded by the same religious dogmatic preachers in quest of power, the same false Sufi using magic to subdue the people (and the magic here is permanent). If the thing is true, then it can surely be re-enacted and the myth becomes an objective reality, checked beyond the space/time illusion...
My internet connexion is not easy and I really have plenty of work to do, but I will add some of my "baked noodles" to your most interesting work when I have some time.

If all we have here is myths, to me they need to be reenacted to be objectively observed. As the IY Chuan master Wang Xhang Xhai use to say:"action resolve contradictions".
I am myself an humble dancer and every time I try these Cem movements (I don't really succeed because I have not been taught how to do it right and I have to search with the videos) I can clearly check how interesting they are in terms of energy. I have been fascinated by this danse and I am smilling thinking about the C's talking about whirling doctor...
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x621w2_danse-soufi-jaran-13_creation

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x62243_danse-soufi-jaran-23_creation

http://www.dailymotion.com/related/x62243_danse-soufi-jaran-23_creation/video/x62293_danse-soufi-jaran-33_creation

I also find some corellations with some of Gurdjiev work with movement and the Alevi-Bektashi like this demonstrates
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2mp12_gurdjieff-enneagramme_creation

If you can read French you will find A LOT of clues in Henry Corbin's masterwork, especialy about the Ismaelis. I strongly advise you to read that stuff if you can.

To end up with this message I must add that there are many similarities with the reggae/rasta thing which is so dear to me. if you make a search on Deezer, you can even find an Alevi/rasta musical work, it is call Shkank and you can reach it if you type "saz".

Respect
 
Hi sankara,

The enneagram in the Sufi tradition, Yunus Emre's poem translated(surely imperfectly) in my native language "les chants du pauvre Yunus" and one of Laura's.

It is always nice to see people interested with non-religuous Sufism. Yunus and other poets in Sufi traditions refer themselves as drops of a sea and Katibi said "from drop to drop, we dive into the sea, we mixed with the many, not with the few". They mean even if they are small drops of the sea, they carry the wisdom of the sea in its full extent and they are one with it.

If you can reach even a small drop of the wisdom, then you get far beyond many people in here who have a chance to read those poems, but they do not understand. I think you can discern the false translations of the book with the help of Mr. Durduran's article who gives a really good background of Yunus, also you have the background of Cassiopaean Experiment.


I have also frequently refered to the Bektashi connexion in some of my posts (one was about the fact that the Albanian Bektashis sheltered the infamous maniaco-depressive Shabbataï Zévi until his death).

I remember reading those posts and I was doing the research at that time, the links you provide about Albanian Bektashis contained good information about that sect. I read more Bektashi legends and poems than I read Alevi legends and poems. It means I am more familiar with their work and one of the reason that pushed me to make this research was that the debate between researchers who thought Hajji Bektash's written work, Maqalat does not fit his identity, his teachings which Alevis live today. Maqalat is similar to the work of Gazali and other Islamic Sufis that I, personally, would consider "those who do not possess much knowledge".

When I look at history, the origin of Hajji Bektash is under debate that nobody knows where he came from. They associate him with Ahmet Yesevi who lived a century before Hajji Bektash. Those researchers claimed that he is a student of Ahmet Yesevi which is impossible. The only serious work that has been done in that area is the one I mentioned above that Hajji Bektash was an Ishmaeli teacher.

When I look at the life of Hajji Bektash and Mevlana, I can see that there is a huge difference. Hajji Bektash was like an Old Testament prophet who caused some diseases and sufferings to the people and who performed miracles to prove his higher value. On the other hand Mevlana, as far I know did not do any miracles or any other thing, he lived with his knowledge and died that way. Of course Mevlana is Mevlana because of Shams(means sun) Tabrizi which was his friend.

After a century when I looked at the communities that Mevlana and Hajji Bektash formed, the former sided with the system and the latter got killed and suffered unimaginably, they are also suffering today. Mevlevis became highly involved in Islam where Bektashis get away from Islam to some extent because of Alevis. Right there you can see, it is not about the person who formed the community, but the inner purity of the people who makes a tradition constructive.

I continue my research because of that contradictions and reached this conclusion. I know it is hard to imagine such a thing, I also have serious doubts and think about the alternatives, but the above working hypothesis is the only one that I could find. I know it is not definite and vague because of my inability to understand or their ability to hide or both.

I know that I need more data about those matters but that was all I could find. If you have anything related to the subject, I really appreciate your ideas and information.


I am myself an humble dancer and every time I try these Cem movements (I don't really succeed because I have not been taught how to do it right and I have to search with the videos) I can clearly check how interesting they are in terms of energy.  I have been fascinated by this danse and I am smilling thinking about the C's talking about whirling doctor...

The girl in the video dances really good but I do not think this is a semah or sema. This is something different, maybe from more east, or so I think. In general the Cem movements are actually simple and limited but the speed, timing, discipline and acting together is really hard. This is one of the main purposes of Cems. They unite people with music and dance. They use phrases like Allah Allah or "Ashk ile" which means "With love" or Hu which is a common greeting among Sufis.

Right now I am in the middle of ISOTM and I suppose toward the end there is a dance part of the book. The people in video seems more Islamic, is this really how Gurdjieff described it or is it something else?

It does resemble Alevi dances, but Alevis always form circles, the is not much linear dances among them.

If you can read French you will find A LOT of clues in Henry Corbin's masterwork, especialy about the Ismaelis. I strongly advise you to read that stuff if you can.

Unfortunately I can't read French, if somebody has time to give some information about the book, that would be great. I am not particularly interested in Ishmaelis, but I think they knew a few things about the nature of this reality. Bektashis deeply respect Hasan Sabbah and his Assasini sect and consider him as a great master. Well, I think it is true that if you can send a person to death willingly, you are a great master but you would not be one of my favorite masters. I remember first time I read Hasan Sabbah in Amin Maalouf's Semerkand, I was one of his fans during my adolescent. I still think he was very clever, but his methods were a bit violent.

To end up with this message I must add that there are many similarities with the reggae/rasta thing which is so dear to me. if you make a search on Deezer, you can even find an Alevi/rasta musical work, it is call Shkank and you can reach it if you type "saz".

I listened those songs and I also liked them. Especially the song Fidayda, which is the most common song in Turkish weddings. He does a really good job with the music of two cultures.

Thank you for your comments and interest.

I want to add something: In my introduction post, I said Alevi-Bektashi tradition is coming from Shamanism. They have shamanic elements, this is for certain, but those elements can not reach beyond the Eastern Anatolia. They are generally regional. When people look at the dances and musics, they tend to make that association, as I did before. Especially the legends of Hajji Bektash are highly influenced with those elements, but again, it is regional.

Today, there are genetic studies that indicate the migration of Turks from the Central Asia to Anatolia is a myth. Those studies showed that the large percent of population are not Turks. I did not share this because I am thinking the effect of genetic intermixing that it may not be healthy to draw conclusions from such studies. One of my teachers told that Anatolia is the place where all of the genetic intermixing occurred, so the result of study is not reliable from my personal perspective.

Another reason that I do not think Alevis coming from Luwians and not Shamans is that some bronze age work in Anatolia. This thread in an Alevi forum contains those elements and a general discussion about Erdagan Cinar's work. There are four pages and each of them contains a few pictures about Luwians and Hittites that are connected to Alevi tradition:

_http://www.alevilerbirligi.com/showthread.php?t=4080

Edit: I thought the origin of Anatolian people was a result of a simple research with highly suggestive news but it seems there are theories and serious researches about it long before that research was done. Here is a wikipedia article about origins of Anatolian people and effect of Turks. I am still skeptical about genetic testing, but the article supports my hypothesis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkification
 
Biomiast, what you have written above is a fascinating expose of many things - and some of it is even helpful to me in clarifying certain things I have been puzzling over, but in a number of respects, you have really confused things because you have made assumptions a priori.

Because I have so many things on my plate, I did not finish the "Mongols series," and that is probably why you have taken some things and run with them in a direction I was not suggesting.

I do think that some of the refugees from "Hyperborea" may have made it to Anatolia as well as Greece and other areas, taking the names of places in their homeland with them. But this is also true about Egypt. As you must have figured out, the "Egypt" of ancient wisdom is probably NOT the Egypt we now know as Egypt. This very ancient Egypt was probably in the north of what we now know as France and the refugees from there went to what we now call Egypt. The name "Egypt" was given to Egypt by the Greeks much later, too.

There was, of course, another very ancient group in what we now call Egypt, and they built the Great Pyramid as a machine. They were gone when the refugees came ... and then the refugees gradually disappeared as well...

Abraham and Sarai did really exist, but not as the Bible portrays them. I can't say too much about this here because it is the topic of my current research and will come out in a book: The Horns of Moses.

Moses also existed, but again, not as the Bible portrays him. He is actually a made up character, a composite, and what we would call a "place-holder" in genealogy though he has much less reality than a genealogical place-holder would have. He is a place-holder of a genealogy that is not even true, and the same is true of Isaac and even Jacob.

I agree that there is a strong linkage between Hyperboreans and some Sufis and the Druids. But those connections must be traced very carefully. It is not an easy task even if you cast your net very wide. You are looking at things very familiar to you and seeing connections, and some of them are very good. but the net must be cast even wider...
 
Laura said:
Because I have so many things on my plate, I did not finish the "Mongols series," and that is probably why you have taken some things and run with them in a direction I was not suggesting.

Before reading Mongols series, my initial intention was giving some background of Alevi tradition, but it seems I exaggerated it when I thought about Hyperborean connection. I admit that when I read Secret History, I did not have background to understand its meaning since it was before I read the Wave. It seems to me, little understanding of Secret History and Mongol Series lead me to this point.


Laura said:
I do think that some of the refugees from "Hyperborea" may have made it to Anatolia as well as Greece and other areas, taking the names of places in their homeland with them. But this is also true about Egypt. As you must have figured out, the "Egypt" of ancient wisdom is probably NOT the Egypt we now know as Egypt. This very ancient Egypt was probably in the north of what we now know as France and the refugees from there went to what we now call Egypt. The name "Egypt" was given to Egypt by the Greeks much later, too.

I think I completely ignored the fact that Egypt was not Egypt in the sense we know it. I am sorry about that.

Laura said:
I agree that there is a strong linkage between Hyperboreans and some Sufis and the Druids. But those connections must be traced very carefully. It is not an easy task even if you cast your net very wide. You are looking at things very familiar to you and seeing connections, and some of them are very good. but the net must be cast even wider...

After criticizing Erdogan Cinar about putting everything together without discernment, I did exactly the same thing. History is not my area so I leave it to those who really know it and who have means to truly search it. I guess I just wanted you guys to know that there is a group among Sufis which are highly unusual in various senses. Everything is so corrupted that a person wants to find something that is not corrupted.

Laura said:
Biomiast, what you have written above is a fascinating expose of many things - and some of it is even helpful to me in clarifying certain things I have been puzzling over, but in a number of respects, you have really confused things because you have made assumptions a priori.

I am glad that it helped you, even it was full of confusion on my part. I will read Secret History again for a better understanding.
 
Wonderful, wonderful post. So inspiring and informative.

I was recently exchanging messages with a friend in which I referred to the Chintamani stone, and my friend thanked me because he had'n't heard of this stone before. And I said that it was interesting because I myself had found out about the Chintamani stone after reading an article posted by him. It seems to me that esoteric knowledge has this funny property of returning to the originator in an amplified way not much unlike the Australian boomerang. Anyway to my comment now.

I think some of the poems referring to Sidki or Yunus Emre that you have mentioned in your post may not necessarily belong to Sidki or Yunus Emre. You see although it is true that the poet usually puts his name in the third person in the last quatrain of Anatolian metric syllable poems, sometimes the person referred to is not the actual poet. Thus a poem including Yunus Emre's name may not necessarily be by Yunus Emre but about Yunus Emre. It may be the saga told by the ashug (bard) with some historical information to the audience. In such cases the name of the person being referred to is usually--but not always--mentioned in the first quatrain.

This is how the folk history has been transmitted from generation to generation through eons. There may be mythological elements, exaggerations or falsities in this kind of history, but it is still usually more faithful to the facts than the official history that is written by the 'winners'with the aim of serving the interests of those who write it, or rather, of those who commission it to be written.

It is not wise to read the folk history literally though. It usually conveys the symbolic truths faithfully while the actual historical facts as we know them may be lost by the artistic licence of the poet. Nevertheless a good poem gives the listener a better chance of reconstructing the symbolic value of the events than a dry, factual accounts of the events.

Having clarified my opinion on the value of the mythopoetic strength of the poems and rituals in transmitting folk history, I must commend you for bringing into attention that song Haydar Haydar. Because of the reasons I mentioned above, I do not think that this poem was composed by Sitki, but it is a poem about a person named Sitki. This song was about to the director of Turkish Folk Music in the sixties by a master saz player the late Ali Ekber Cicek. He claimed that had collected this poem from the villagers of his home town and that it was an anonymous song. In those years radio and television was under the state monopoly and the government had strict restrictions of any new ouvre in the traditional genre. They were following an agenda of westernisation of the culture, so the only way that it could have been played on the radio was by claiming it was a traditional son that 'already' existed. In fact, Alli Ekber Cicek admitted years later when these restrictions were eased, that it was composed by Cicek himself after an inspiration he felt during a lonely and cold night away from home in a hotel room.

The saz playing is unbelievably complex and rich almost as if a full symphony orchestra was playing. The tempo and music rolls and revolves evoking the feeling of an actual semah dance. Perhaps a Youtube link to Cicek playing the music will give a better idea. (Excuse the sneezing at the beginning :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fJw71ZJUy4.

It is worth noting the spellbound affect on the faces of the young listeners. What other music can so capture this young audience apart maybe from their favourite rock star?

Regards

Dede Korkut
 
Hi dedemkorkut,

Welcome to the forum. :) We recommend all new members to post an introduction in the Newbies section telling us a bit about themselves, and how they found their way here. Have a read through that section to get an idea of how others have done it. Thanks.
 

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