Ice age animal husbandry - veterinary and other perspective?

[Keit]

They say that forewarned is forearmed, and many on this forum certainly take specific steps to prepare themselves for the upcoming climate changes, so this post, or a request to be exact, also has to do with wanting to prepare myself and possibly being useful and helpful to whoever will need it. And if this information will also help others in a similar position, all the better! Or if you have any useful information regarding animal husbandry, please share it here.

I am currently in my third year of studies at the Veterinary Academy. It is generally the time when the student already has some idea about his or her future work, but only at the very early stages of actually applying this knowledge. It is also usually the time when teachers advice to choose a sort of direction (surgery, therapy, gynecology, pathological anatomy, scientific research, etc.), while obviously still being thoroughly familiar with all the aspects of being a vet doctor. That what's so great about this field - it's versatile!

And it's quite understandable why most of the students here, who actually want to work in the field, prefer to concentrate on surgery and small animals, like dogs, cats, etc. Working with large animals, at least in this country, is a very hard and low paid work, even if budgeted students have no way of avoiding it (unless they have connections, or girls get pregnant!), and still have to work on the farm (kolhoz) for two years after finishing their studies. Also, the studies here are pretty much mainstream, though perhaps thanks to the low budget Academy has and low tech, they still teach "ancient" methods of diagnosing and treating animals, like herbal concoctions and such.

So, although I have no way of knowing exactly what future will hold for me, I still would like to prepare for the possibility of my training becoming useful during crisis times and Ice Age, and it means getting familiarized with natural treatment of farm animals (pigs, sheep, etc.?) and everything that it entails. I am certainly doing my own research, but wanted to ask others here on the forum who have a farm and animals (and especially if there are being grown "naturally" and not in large complexes) for advice and information regarding their feed, conditions, prevalent health problems, if you need a vet, and if you do - for what exactly? I asked a similar question here and got a really great reply. Basically, any information that would help me become a better natural vet is greatly appreciated! Also, would appreciate any tips on what to put an emphasis from our resident vet doctor Z. :)

Thanks a lot!

 

[Z...]

Excellent choice, however you have to taken into consideration that working with farm animals does require certain physical strength and this is the reason why there are so few female veterinarians in this field. It is definitely hard and dirty work but the rewards are plentiful.
I have very little experience with large animals as I plunged into companion animal practice straight after university, and I am so much out of touch now that I was considering taking internship at some large animal practice in order tu brush up my knowledge and practical skills.
I would imagine it depends on species. Occasionally I do get calls from horse owners and most of those are about colic and lameness.
When it comes to ruminants I think most of the work is related to obstetrics and related problems, then disease prophylaxis and nutritional problems.
I have recently ordered the book Homeopathic Treatment of Goats - unfortunately it is not in English.

I was also thinking of taking the course in farriering - that skill will certainly be very useful in coming times, provided all the horses are not eaten.

 

[Possibility of Being]

So, although I have no way of knowing exactly what future will hold for me, I still would like to prepare for the possibility of my training becoming useful during crisis times and Ice Age, and it means getting familiarized with natural treatment of farm animals (pigs, sheep, etc.?) and everything that it entails. I am certainly doing my own research, but wanted to ask others here on the forum who have a farm and animals (and especially if there are being grown "naturally" and not in large complexes) for advice and information regarding their feed, conditions, prevalent health problems, if you need a vet, and if you do - for what exactly? I asked a similar question here and got a really great reply. Basically, any information that would help me become a better natural vet is greatly appreciated! Also, would appreciate any tips on what to put an emphasis from our resident vet doctor Z. :)

Thanks a lot!

Many years ago my (now ex-) partner and I had a flock of 80 ewes plus some goats. Our neighbors had cows, like 30 of them or so. From my experience, obstetrics was a problem needing a vet's intervention occasionally, but only in our neighbors' cows case. With sheep and goats, we were able to take care of any lambing issues ourselves. There was seasonal worming, tail docking, regular hoof cleaning and trimming -- all of which was usually taken care of by us as well as by most of sheep breeders I knew. So I think it depends on how experienced farmers are in a given region and whether they are willing to do the job themselves or would rather ask a vet for doing that.

As far as I can remember, main flock's health issues involved: skin infections caused by parasites (I think they are called Melophagus ovinus, the sheep ked) or bacteria (ecthyma?), lung parasites, footrot (a bacterial infection leading to lameness) and udder inflammation usually of bacterial origins.

Apologies if I had some terms wrong here...

Excellent choice, however you have to taken into consideration that working with farm animals does require certain physical strength

That's very true! I think, a good training in this field is a good idea, but I'd think twice before deciding for it to be my regular job for years to come.

 

[Laura]

I remember my grandad being asked by a number of people to come and treat their horses for various problems (even though he was an engineer - he grew up with critters). He used a lot of burned motor oil mixed with sulfur for skin parasite issues but I'm not sure what else he was doing.

 

[StrangeCaptain]

I was thinking as I read your post that you would be a great candidate as an intern on a farm like Joel Salatin's if you have the time and means: http://www.polyfacefarms.com/apprenticeship/

That is, an organic farm centered on meat production with proper ecology as a central focus but concerned enough with presentation that they are selective about who represents them. Just my two cents....

 

[herondancer]

I was thinking as I read your post that you would be a great candidate as an intern on a farm like Joel Salatin's if you have the time and means: http://www.polyfacefarms.com/apprenticeship/

That is, an organic farm centered on meat production with proper ecology as a central focus but concerned enough with presentation that they are selective about who represents them. Just my two cents....

Perhaps there is someone in Europe who putting Salatin's principles into practice? That would be easier to attend than trying to get yourself into the States. Maybe you could write his foundation to see if there are any.

Joel & Teresa Salatin
43 Pure Meadows Lane
Swoope, VA 24479

Phone: 540-885-3590

Daniel & Sheri Salatin
115 Pure Meadows Lane
Swoope, VA 24479

Phone: 540-887-8194

FAX: 540-885-5888

 

[StrangeCaptain]

I was thinking as I read your post that you would be a great candidate as an intern on a farm like Joel Salatin's if you have the time and means: http://www.polyfacefarms.com/apprenticeship/

That is, an organic farm centered on meat production with proper ecology as a central focus but concerned enough with presentation that they are selective about who represents them. Just my two cents....

Perhaps there is someone in Europe who putting Salatin's principles into practice? That would be easier to attend than trying to get yourself into the States. Maybe you could write his foundation to see if there are any.

Joel & Teresa Salatin
43 Pure Meadows Lane
Swoope, VA 24479

Phone: 540-885-3590

Daniel & Sheri Salatin
115 Pure Meadows Lane
Swoope, VA 24479

Phone: 540-887-8194

FAX: 540-885-5888

Yeah... That is better. Thanks. I guess the important part of what I am saying is that in your ??3rd year of how many years?? you are eligible for internships that can open a lot of doors for you in the future either in the sense of simply having connections or in the sense of having important knowledge that has a great deal of value. I guess I am saying that your question is extremely relevant but why not get direct answers to your questions during in-between academic year periods like the summers? I am reasonably sure that there are on-the-job type experiences out there to answer your questions like:
http://www.wwoof.net/
Find a farm with animals and find out what kind of problems happen in real time.

 

[Forrestdeva]

I wanted to be a Vet. Only got a four year degree. Have worked on large farms. One thing we would do was take the fecal matter from the horses and put it in a long plastic bag, add water and break up the material. After awhile if there was lots of sand in the bottom we knew the horses had been eating too much sand while pulling up grass, so the Vet would then come and treat them.
When I shadowed one Vet he showed me how to identify some pathogens by their smell, good if out in a field and you can not do a gram stain or wait for a culture.

 

[Hildegarda]

wanted to ask others here on the forum who have a farm and animals (and especially if there are being grown "naturally" and not in large complexes) for advice and information regarding their feed, conditions, prevalent health problems, if you need a vet, and if you do - for what exactly?

A friend of mine is a (relatively) new "natural" farmer. She said that nothing she studied have prepared her to how gritty this job is. The books and discussions she saw were either sanitized versions of the personal journey wonders, or dry know-how manuals. Life is both.

She is in touch with her vet regularly. The most common reasons are injuries, followed by parasite issues. She had coyotes attack her lambs and practically skin them alive; the other time, she had her lama go paralized and die in her arms because of, as the vet figured out, a deere-born parasite infection. Obstretrical emergencies are another reason for talking to a vet.

It seems that in her small town vets are a one stop shop for both farm animals and pets.

 

[Keit]

Thank you, everyone, for such great replies! They are very helpful!

Excellent choice, however you have to taken into consideration that working with farm animals does require certain physical strength

That's very true! I think, a good training in this field is a good idea, but I'd think twice before deciding for it to be my regular job for years to come.

Oh, yes, there is no doubt that I lack the needed physical stamina and have too sensitive immune system to do this kind of job on a regular basis. I also heard stories from ex-students, especially girls, how they ruined their health working on cattle complexes, particularly during winter, or about various dangerous situations that may happen while working with large animals. On the other hand, I heard from 4th year students how on their winter farm visit they didn't want to take their hands out during cow rectal examination because it was freezing outside. :).

No illusions there, that's for sure. But I also realize that the nature of the vet profession is such (and considering the state of the world), that I may not have the luxury of working only in a warm and comfy clinic and treating only companion animals. And that's ok, but if so, it would be great to prepare myself beforehand. :)

I remember my grandad being asked by a number of people to come and treat their horses for various problems (even though he was an engineer - he grew up with critters). He used a lot of burned motor oil mixed with sulfur for skin parasite issues but I'm not sure what else he was doing.

I am reading James Herriot's "All Creatures Great and Small". It's a sort of autobiography of his first years as a farm vet doctor in England several years prior to the WWII. Very funny and educational, since all the procedures that he describes are correct and proper. And what is also interesting, is reading about all the techniques and solutions that were used by vets before the pharmaceutical/surgery revolution. I am even taking notes!

Yeah... That is better. Thanks. I guess the important part of what I am saying is that in your ??3rd year of how many years?? you are eligible for internships that can open a lot of doors for you in the future either in the sense of simply having connections or in the sense of having important knowledge that has a great deal of value. I guess I am saying that your question is extremely relevant but why not get direct answers to your questions during in-between academic year periods like the summers? I am reasonably sure that there are on-the-job type experiences out there to answer your questions like:
http://www.wwoof.net/
Find a farm with animals and find out what kind of problems happen in real time.

Thank you, Patience, for the idea. I am definitely going to check it out. The situation with internships is a bit different here, also not so many abroad opportunities, especially since Belarus is "off the grid" so to say, at least as far as it comes to student exchange with "developed countries" such as Euro-zone countries, not to mention US.

We do have mandatory summer training starting from this year (it's a 5 years education) and I already arranged with one veterinarian with whom I am acquainted with and who works on a cattle farm (kolhoz), that I'll be coming there to work for a month. The second month of the summer I planned on spending in a clinic, but will check out other opportunities as well. Because it's surely better to try and get training on a natural farm, if such opportunity is available.

There are couple of "summer work" offers in Germany for Belorussian students, even on a farm, but they have nothing to do with learning how to treat animals, and from testimonies of others, the owners are not really cooperative. But I'll check this one too, since now I have the Belorussian residency and maybe eligible to apply. It may not be educational in a veterinary sense, but perhaps I should start thinking about if and how I will be able to work abroad, especially if I would like to one day to be closer to other FOTCM members.

I wanted to be a Vet. Only got a four year degree. Have worked on large farms. One thing we would do was take the fecal matter from the horses and put it in a long plastic bag, add water and break up the material. After awhile if there was lots of sand in the bottom we knew the horses had been eating too much sand while pulling up grass, so the Vet would then come and treat them.
When I shadowed one Vet he showed me how to identify some pathogens by their smell, good if out in a field and you can not do a gram stain or wait for a culture.

Oh, that's interesting, thanks for sharing. The resident vet in one of the Academy clinics always tells me to sniff cats'/dogs' butt and ears if there is a viral or fungus infection of some sort, and remember the smell. And I thought he was just eccentric! :D

She is in touch with her vet regularly. The most common reasons are injuries, followed by parasite issues. She had coyotes attack her lambs and practically skin them alive; the other time, she had her lama go paralized and die in her arms because of, as the vet figured out, a deere-born parasite infection. Obstretrical emergencies are another reason for talking to a vet.

It seems that in her small town vets are a one stop shop for both farm animals and pets.

Thank you, this information is really invaluable. The amount of info and needed work is sometimes overwhelming but also very exciting at the same time. :)

 

[Keit]

Sometime ago I stumbled upon this blog post "Cold Weather Safety for Dogs: Insights from a Sled Dog Veterinarian"
_http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/cold-weather-safety-for-dogsinsights-from-a-sled-dog-veterinarian

She talks about sled dogs, but not only, so the info may come in handy when dogs may find themselves outside in the cold for more extensive periods of time. And who knows, maybe during the new Ice Age transportation by sled dogs may become more common and useful, since fuel is limited and not everyone can afford to keep horses. Here are some quotes from the article:

My current border collie Jesse tolerates the cold temperatures very well. Her coat is very thick and she eats the same high-energy food and high fat treats that the sled dogs do. She can be outside all day in the bitter cold but comes inside at night.

Q. What diet should they eat if they are outside for long periods during the day?
A. The calories in most commercial dog foods come from carbohydrates. In very cold weather, the dogs do better with a higher amount of fat calories. A study indicated a sled dog racing the Iditarod required 10,000 calories a day to meet their metabolic needs. The only way to meet that high caloric need is with a diet high in fat calories. Most pet dogs do not need that many calories and may get very sick from a high fat diet.

Q. How are dogs with a thick undercoat able to keep warm when sleeping?
A. When they sleep they curl up with their tail over their nose, which traps the heat against their bodies. There are lots of photos of resting sled dogs covered with snow. They are holding their heat well since the snow is not melted. The dogs that are not doing well will have ice on their fur. It indicates that they are losing enough body heat to melt the snow.

A. Our sled dogs have individual houses big enough for them to move around inside but small enough to allow them to be warmed with body heat. The houses all have legs that raise them off the ground. The space under the houses provides insulation from the frozen ground. We constantly monitor the straw to keep it dry because damp straw would soon be frozen to the bottom of the doghouse which would be frozen to the ground making it harder to keep the bedding dry.

There is a thick layer of straw inside every house and we add new straw at every cold snap to replace the loft. The old straw is removed and replaced with new straw several times over the winter because it will get damp from the snow that the dogs bring in on their fur. Wet straw loses its ability to insulate. It is important that the dryness of the straw be monitored and replaced if it gets damp.

 

[will01]

First I would like to say that I am not a Vet, nor do I pretend to have the knowledge of a trained and practiced veterinarian. However having lived and worked on a mixed farming/grazing enterprise for most of my life, I hope that I might be able to offer some useful information.

We tend to take care of most animal husbandry requirements on the farm ourselves, however we have had to call on/consult the local Vet numerous times over the years and their advice/assistance is invaluable. Mostly we use the Vet for diagnosing diseases/disorders through blood testing etc.

As far as physical strength is concerned, I would not be overly concerned with this when it comes to working with larger farm animals (nothing against what Z has said and I realize it may be different in other countries and depend on an individuals physical condition and working situation). In Australia, the number of female Vets in this field are many and strength is rarely an issue, as there is always a smiling farmer to lend a hand and provide lifting equipment etc. if necessary.

Our local Vet is female and very slight of build, but nothing is a problem for her strength wise. Personally, while ever she is still in practice, I will use no other Vet. Her knowledge of ruminants large and small is vast and her ability to diagnose illness on an initial visual inspection is second to none.

As for natural treatments, I have searched the web and have found that more people are looking in this direction. In my country, as more and more resistance to chemical parasite treatments appear, we need alternatives and in my opinion, it benefits us to look to the past and examine what was successful before chemical intervention.

Apple cider vinegar, ACV and garlic and diatomaceous earth are some of the better known natural treatments for various ailments and parasites. I have had great success with DE in cats and dogs for intestinal worms, but not for fleas and am very keen to trial the ACV and garlic for livestock deworming. Recently, I also had success treating a merino wether for urinary calculi or "water belly" using 50/50 ACV and water, having lost others in the past to this condition. Also I hear tea tree oil is successful for preventing sheep lice. Recently, a local farmer noticed that when he grazed sheep in a certain paddock, they always tested very low for worms. Upon inspection, a local agronomist discovered a large deposit of DE exposed and the sheep were self medicating.

A species appropriate diet (as has been well covered by this forum) appears to be the best preventative medicine for both man and beast. Whenever we have problems with livestock (when not parasite related), it is generally nutrition related, most always in the winter and especially in pregnant stock. Supplementing to provide a complete spectrum of vitamins, minerals and trace elements, as well as feeding, gets them through the season in good health.

As for possible future earth changes and economic collapse, well , I guess we will have to get by with what we can access and can afford. We always have a small amount of livestock supplies on hand, so maybe it's a good time to increase our stores. We can do no more than we are for supplementary feeding. After 10 - 13 years of unpredictable seasons, we bale everthing in sight.

Hope this has been helpful and best of luck in your career.

 

[Keit]

Hope this has been helpful and best of luck in your career.

Thank you! It was very helpful and educational.

 

[Voyageur]

Hope this has been helpful and best of luck in your career.

Thank you! It was very helpful and educational.

Yes on both counts - thanks will01 for the post. :)

Great article also Keit - 'Cold Weather Safety for Dogs: Insights from a Sled Dog Veterinarian'- many thanks.

 

[Forrestdeva]

Seriously, do think back and remember your Microbiology classes. Remembering that purulent exudate has a smell, specific g-negative organisms have specific odors, hence you can prescribe specific antibiotics for said germ if your out in a field.